1st CYCLE RE TWEAKED HELP!

**Pslsurfs** · 06-30-2013, 10:36 PM

Hello all and thanks for your time

26y/o 18%BF at 6'2 215lbs.
Good diet 40/40/20 macro with work out and cardio 4 times a week

First ever cycle, I have it tweaked to this protocol after much needed scrutiny

10 weeks

1-10 Test E 300mg/wk (150X2 a week)

1-10 Wini/Var oral 40mg a day (10mg of each combined in one capsule) I know taking two orals is hard on the system so i'm taking low doses plus milk thistle since a week ago.

3-13 HCG 250iu EOD

12-16 PCT of clomid 50/25/12.5/12,5 also have adex on hand as needed

How am I looking? Back to the drawing boards? Please any feedback good or bad is needed. Thank you

**Lunk1** · 06-30-2013, 10:42 PM

Up the test to at least 500. Drop the orals and add Nolva in your pct

**gianttime** · 06-30-2013, 10:44 PM

Any particular reason for running 2 orals?

I personally would only run the Anavar if I had to chose one of those 2 and I would only run any Oral for 2-3 weeks. Much longer then that is where you could run into the Liver or Kidney issue even at a low dose.

Then again you probably do really well just running the test-E at 500mg weekly through out the whole cycle, keep the HCG , add the adex through out and drop the Orals all together.

Just my thoughts

**Pslsurfs** · 06-30-2013, 10:47 PM

thank you, so up to 500mg/wk and add nolva on 12-16 at 40/40/40/40?

**auswest** · 06-30-2013, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Pslsurfs

Hello all and thanks for your time

26y/o 18%BF at 6'2 215lbs.
Good diet 40/40/20 macro with work out and cardio 4 times a week

First ever cycle, I have it tweaked to this protocol after much needed scrutiny

10 weeks

1-10 Test E 300mg/wk (150X2 a week)

1-10 Wini/Var oral 40mg a day (10mg of each combined in one capsule) I know taking two orals is hard on the system so i'm taking low doses plus milk thistle since a week ago.

3-13 HCG 250iu EOD

12-16 PCT of clomid 50/25/12.5/12,5 also have adex on hand as needed

How am I looking? Back to the drawing boards? Please any feedback good or bad is needed. Thank you

Just my opinion..

Cut some bf% pre cycle would aim for 15 and under, you will be much happier with results and can reduce sides

You mentioned macros, but what are your goals are you eating at Maintence? Cutting? Bulking (guessing not given bf%).

I would personally up the test to 500mg split into 2 even shots a week, and run it for 12 weeks

I would not be using the orals, test only and a good diet will be enough

Drop hcg before pct 250iu twice weekly is sufficient

Pct is weak, I recommend
4 weeks
Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20
You may not want to run clomid so high first week but personally I love it and have no issues going that high.

Do not use adex when sides are noticed it can sometimes be too late, .25 eod and adjust if necessary, I personally need .5 daily unfortunately to prevent gyno flare up on only 500 a week of test. When using test e I slowly taper off it during the 2 week wait into pct then drop it when I start pct

Stay true to your diet put the effort in at the gym and you will be happy with your results.

**MuscleInk** · 06-30-2013, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Up the test to at least 500. Drop the orals and add Nolva in your pct

^^^This. Keep it simple. Run test alone, 12 weeks. HCG and PCT.

**Pslsurfs** · 06-30-2013, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by gianttime

Any particular reason for running 2 orals?

I personally would only run the Anavar if I had to chose one of those 2 and I would only run any Oral for 2-3 weeks. Much longer then that is where you could run into the Liver or Kidney issue even at a low dose.

Then again you probably do really well just running the test-E at 500mg weekly through out the whole cycle, keep the HCG , add the adex through out and drop the Orals all together.

Just my thoughts

The compound of both orals came highly recommended, ok I have nolva wasn't sure to run it throughout the cycle...so hows .25mg EOD? or E3D?
Thank you again for your help

**auswest** · 06-30-2013, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Pslsurfs

The compound of both orals came highly recommended, ok I have nolva wasn't sure to run it throughout the cycle...so hows .25mg EOD? or E3D?
Thank you again for your help

Refer to my post, should answer all your questions..

**MuscleInk** · 06-30-2013, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Pslsurfs

The compound of both orals came highly recommended, ok I have nolva wasn't sure to run it throughout the cycle...so hows .25mg EOD? or E3D?
Thank you again for your help

Nolva is for your PCT. You need an AI during cycle. Aromasin or Anastrozole will do.

**Pslsurfs** · 06-30-2013, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by auswest

Just my opinion..

Cut some bf% pre cycle would aim for 15 and under, you will be much happier with results and can reduce sides

You mentioned macros, but what are your goals are you eating at Maintence? Cutting? Bulking (guessing not given bf%).

I would personally up the test to 500mg split into 2 even shots a week, and run it for 12 weeks

I would not be using the orals, test only and a good diet will be enough

Drop hcg before pct 250iu twice weekly is sufficient

Pct is weak, I recommend
4 weeks
Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20
You may not want to run clomid so high first week but personally I love it and have no issues going that high.

Do not use adex when sides are noticed it can sometimes be too late, .25 eod and adjust if necessary, I personally need .5 daily unfortunately to prevent gyno flare up on only 500 a week of test. When using test e I slowly taper off it during the 2 week wait into pct then drop it when I start pct

Stay true to your diet put the effort in at the gym and you will be happy with your results.

The general consencious has been to drop the orals so im scrapping them.

1-12 Test E 500mg (250X2)
3-12 HCG 250iu (X2/wk)
14-18 Clomid 50/25/25/12.5?
14-18 Nolva 40/20/20/20

Adex throughout?

**auswest** · 06-30-2013, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Pslsurfs

The general consencious has been to drop the orals so im scrapping them.

1-12 Test E 500mg (250X2)
3-12 HCG 250iu (X2/wk)
14-18 Clomid 50/25/25/12.5?
14-18 Nolva 40/20/20/20

Adex throughout?

Adex through out most deffernatly starting at .25 eod seems to be the recommended starting point but my no means a rule as mentioned I require .5 daily unfortunately.

I wouldn't take your clomid that low 50mg daily for 4 weeks is solid.

Your pct actually starts week 15 through to 18 and off everything come week 19, just clarifying that... Test e pct starts 2 weeks after last shot and a 4 week pct will be sufficient

**auswest** · 06-30-2013, 11:16 PM

Deffernatly recommend dropping some body fat.

Have a read of this
The Prime explained before cycling..

I would incorporate that along side a calorie deficit 6-8 weeks prior to cycle.
Don't rush into getting straight on, give yourself the best chance possible.

**Pslsurfs** · 06-30-2013, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by auswest

Deffernatly re

I would incorporate that along side a calorie deficit 6-8 weeks prior to cycle.
Don't rush into getting straight on, give yourself the best chance possible.

This makes plenty of sense thank you. I'm adding adex .25eod. Pct will remain clomid 50/50/50/50. Diet plan is 2200cal on 40/40/20 macros... about a 500cal deficiency.

I'm a little nervous about gyno and such. Was thinking of sticking with 300mg maybe lower. ...

**auswest** · 06-30-2013, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by Pslsurfs

This makes plenty of sense thank you. I'm adding adex .25eod. Pct will remain clomid 50/50/50/50. Diet plan is 2200cal on 40/40/20 macros... about a 500cal deficiency.

I'm a little nervous about gyno and such. Was thinking of sticking with 300mg maybe lower. ...

Correct ai dosing and you'll be fine, 300mg and you may be a little disappointed. Stick with 500 and monitor how you feel, pay attention to your nipples, itchy tendor or puffy up you dose to .25 . Ed if you're really paranoid start at .25 daily and lower/adjust as necessary. As long as you're monitoring changes in your chest daily without being paranoid you should be fine, any issues up your dosage, dropping bf% will most certainly help with the chances of not getting gyno, so I strongly recommend cutting some bf%, order some letro through ar-r and have it on hand, you will proberly not need it but its great to have just in case.

Refer to cbino's thread all you need to know about gyno for correct usage if the unfortunate happens

Also something I see getting recommended now a days is raloxifene have a search around for threads regarding that and make your own mind up, I have never used it nor do I know anything about.. Austinite would be the guy to speak to, throw him a pm.

Your best chances of avoiding gyno is educating yourself about gyno, plenty of threads here, make the most of the search function and educate yourself until you are happy and confident about it, worst thing you can do is go into this cycle with doubts and fears.

**Pslsurfs** · 07-01-2013, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by auswest

Correct ai dosing and you'll be fine, 300mg and you may be a little disappointed. Stick with 500 and monitor how you feel, pay attention to your nipples, itchy tendor or puffy up you dose to .25 . Ed if you're really paranoid start at .25 daily and lower/adjust as necessary. As long as you're monitoring changes in your chest daily without being paranoid you should be fine, any issues up your dosage, dropping bf% will most certainly help with the chances of not getting gyno, so I strongly recommend cutting some bf%, order some letro through ar-r and have it on hand, you will proberly not need it but its great to have just in case.

Refer to cbino's thread all you need to know about gyno for correct usage if the unfortunate happens

Also something I see getting recommended now a days is raloxifene have a search around for threads regarding that and make your own mind up, I have never used it nor do I know anything about.. Austinite would be the guy to speak to, throw him a pm.

Your best chances of avoiding gyno is educating yourself about gyno, plenty of threads here, make the most of the search function and educate yourself until you are happy and confident about it, worst thing you can do is go into this cycle with doubts and fears.

Ok appreciate the info

**gianttime** · 07-01-2013, 07:18 AM

man over night looks like you got a lot of great info and your now on a much better track.

take it all in do some more reading and good luck.

**itsjayman02** · 07-01-2013, 11:26 PM

Auswest is spot on with his advice and comments......... The reason for test only is to see what gives you sides and or great gains so in short
Test for first 2 cycles with pct and time off
Adding a compound will produce varying results which can be monitored and noted for future cycles so make logs until you gain more exp.