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Thread: Do I have Gynecomastia? If you're asking this question, read this thread.

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    austinite's Avatar
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    Do I have Gynecomastia? If you're asking this question, read this thread.

    Introduction

    So you're worried about getting gynecomastia . You're posting thread after thread until someone on the internet diagnoses you. Sound silly? It should. No one on the internet can positively diagnose you. Nothing wrong with getting opinions, but there's no need to keep posting threads about it or keep that one thread alive forever. Hopefully this article can shed some light into the signs and symptoms that everyone seems to complain of. So let's get started...

    What exactly is gynecomastia?

    Gynecomastia is the enlargement of male breasts by increase in breast tissue development. Not to be confused with fat. This is actual breast tissue. In cases of steroid users, this is due to developing female characteristics from excess estrogen in the body. This can also occur in infants and adolescents due to hormonal imbalances. In some cases, old gynecomastia from a young age may go away on its own. But some folks retain it throughout their lifetime unless treatment is implemented.

    There are several types of gynecomastia:

    1. Gynecomastia: Enlargement of adult male breast tissue.
    2. Pubertal Gynecomastia: Same as above, but develops during puberty.
    3. Pseudogynecomastia: This is fatty tissue, not breast tissue.

    It's entirely important to identify what you have. There's no reason to attempt treating pseudogynecomastia with SERMs, it will do nothing and could possibly do harm. You just need to lose weight, period. Nothing else to it. The leaner you become, the more it will dissipate.

    Common concerns from members:

    1. My nipples are puffy:

    While puffy nipples may be a sign of beginning stages of gynecomastia development, it most certainly is not a diagnosis. Further testing would be needed to confirm this. However, in most cases, puffy nipples are merely due to a hormonal imbalance (even if estrogen is in range) and in most cases, goes away with time. It could be water retention, fat increase or simply a reaction to the drugs you're taking.

    Furthermore; it could be due to your tissue surrounding the nipple lacking fat. Yes, low fat can cause a puffy nipple, too. It causes the gland to protrude more, giving the effect of a puffy nipple. So you see, there are plenty of reasons why your nipples could get puffy. Surely there's more than the mentioned, so don't panic just yet and post a million threads about it. I get puffy nipples every single time I cycle and it goes away, every time.

    2. My nipples are sensitive:

    This would be an endless topic, frankly, I'm not going to delve into every cause of sensitive nipples because it would be a never ending post. The fact is, we tend to panic when we have sensitive nipples on cycle because we are super extra concerned about gynecomastia development, so we are looking for any and every possible sign. You probably had sensitive nipples off cycle at one point, but didn't give it much thought because you're not on cycle and the chances of it being gynecomastia are slim to none.

    Sensitive nipples can be caused by running, from different types of shirt materials used that you're sensitive to as well. Could be a cyst that has developed from an infection. Heck, even fluctuation in body temperature could cause nipples to become slightly sensitive. Now, the panel that most people fail to get is a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP), which would indicate any concerns that deserve investigating the liver. Liver diseases such as cirrhosis can cause breast tenderness and sensitivity as well. Again, this could be a sign, not a diagnosis so further testing is required.

    3. My nipples are leaking:

    Well, if you're lactating then your prolactin levels are high. This is generally observed in the presence of progestins such as nandrolone and trenbolone . High prolactin levels will lead to lactating males. Again, do not squeeze your nipples to reproduce the issue, ever. You're making things worse. There is no such thing as prolactin-gynecomastia. So while you're lactating, it does not mean your breast tissue has developed and growing. It merely means that you're lactating. That's your condition: Male Lactation. Not gynecomastia. Similar to folks who suffer Hyperprolactinaemia.

    Now, it's important to note that you'll need to have both your progesterone and prolactin tested to see where you're at. High progesterone can certainly aggravate the issue and result in gynecomastia. This is generally in the presence of excess estrogen.

    So there you have it. There's a million and one reasons why your nipples may be puffy and sensitive. Sure, it's a good chance that the cause is your steroid use , but the chances of those signs being diagnosed as gynecomastia is slim when compared to developing an actual lump.

    Enlargement of breast tissue is very unnatural in men and you'll likely develop a lump, or a hardened spot behind or immediately around your nipple area. This hard spot tends to get bigger if it remains untreated. This is the biggest sign you need to be looking for. You can feel a lump with the slightest touch. There is never a need to "squeeze" your nipples. Do not ever do this as it will cause more damage.

    LUMP = GYNECOMASTIA! Remember that. Nothing else is really an indicator, only signs that may lead to gynecomastia. CHECK YOUR BLOOD WORK AT THIS STAGE!

    Stop playing the guessing game:

    I get it, you want someone on an internet forum to tell you that what you have is not a case of gynecomastia. You and I both know that you're being ridiculous. You're going to keep asking and keep posting until that one person gives you some peace of mind. Forget about it, you're wasting your time. There isn't anyone on earth, not even the best doctors in the world that can positively identify and diagnose gynecomastia over the internet. Not going to happen.... EVER.

    You need to legitimately find out what you have. The only way to do this is to see a doctor. Some of you folks are spending ridiculous amounts of money on gear, food, gym memberships, etc... but you won't give the time to see a doctor. This is just mind boggling to me. I don't really care if you don't have insurance. I don't care if you're broke. I've mentioned in many threads the importance of blood work pre, mid and post cycle. This should be part of your cycle budget and is the ONLY way to prevent these issues. If you failed to manage your estrogen and you're too broke to see a doc because you've spent all your money on gear, tough shit. You should have never cycled, because surely... you did your research and understood the risks.

    Don't cycle at high body fat:

    Just because your internet tells you that your 20% body fat is normal for a male your age, does not mean it's safe to cycle. Forget those ratings. Anything above 15 or 16% is TOO OVERWEIGHT to cycle. There are general health ratings, and then there are steroid-user ratings. I'm telling you, that if you're above 16%, you're carrying too many aromatase enzymes. This will lead to higher testosterone -to-estrogen conversion and will make it very difficult to manage. It's no surprise that most of the folks posting gynecomastia threads are overweight for steroid use.

    Furthermore; you better not be bulking at 15 or 16% BF either. Bulking should never be done, in my opinion, until you're at 13% or less. You can get there with diet alone, and if you can't, you shouldn't be considering steroids .

    How do I reverse gynecomastia?

    Surgery is one way. But instead of diving into non-surgical procedures, let me just give you some links to follow, as this has been posted a million times before.

    1. http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...etro-gyno.html
    2. http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-c...erms-only.html
    3. http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-reversal.html

    If you're too lazy to follow the links and read... Raloxifene is the superior compound today for reversing gynecomastia. It can be dosed on or off cycle at 60mg daily up to 80mg daily until your gynecomastia is reversed. I will not be answering any questions that have already been answered in this thread, or in the threads linked above.

    Frequently Asked Questions:

    1. Can I use Letrozole to reverse gynecomastia?
    --- No. This is a very old school method and should never be attempted. We've advanced and we know better today.

    2. What should I use to reverse gynecomastia?
    --- See the links above. Raloxifene or Tamoxifen are the 2 proven SERMs to work.

    3. Can I develop gynecomastia even if I've had the surgery in the past?
    --- Yes, you most certainly can. Having surgery is not a reason to ignore signs and estrogen management.

    4. How is gynecomastia diagnosed?
    --- Physical examination, blood tests, mammograms, chest x-rays, CT scans, MRI, biopsy, etc...

    5. Can I get gynecomastia even if estrogen is in check?
    --- Not likely, but again, hormonal imbalances and ratios that are way off can cause issues. Get diagnosed.

    6. Can gynecomastia develop on one side only?
    --- Not likely, it's probably already in both, but only one side is affected worse, so you get signs from that one side.

    7. Why are Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERM) better than Aromatase inhibitors (AI)?
    --- Both have been studied and SERMs are proven effective. AI's are proven ineffective. SERMs bind to E receptors at breast tissue strongly, unlike AI's.

    8. Can SERMs reverse pubertal gynecomastia?
    --- Pubertal gynecomastia has been studies as well, and SERMs have been proven effective.


    Have a powerful day,

    ~ Austinite
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    "It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel

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    Another Austinite thread that should be pinned to the top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uoflcards View Post
    Another Austinite thread that should be pinned to the top.
    Thanks. You can always fine my articles in the article database thread up top.
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    Thank you for this. I'm so tired of everyone claiming they either have gyno or are scaring the hell out of themselves wondering if they do. Gyno isn't common, people! If you get it you will know IMO that something is definitely wrong and you won't be asking internet people to diagnose it. You'll get your ass to the doctor asap just like you would if you found a blueish black hairy lump on your scrotum (carcinoma maybe?) Its not a questionable thing. Gyno looks like boobs. You can tell the difference between boobs and extra fat. Very mild gyno resolves after you stop aas in almost all cases.

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    Top Notch thread again aust

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    Excellent

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    XxAndreaxX is offline Senior Member
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    Very interesting Austinite.
    Look, I'm in 4th week of PCT, and still have a little lump under one breast.
    This week, its normally 1/2 nolva a day, but maybe I should do an extra week, and go on this week with 1 nolva and 1 clomid /day, and next week, half each...
    Nipples are not puffy at all, only a little lump there, and I'd like to get rid of.

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    Good thread, I'll share my experiences, might be beneficial to some. I will probably try some chemical route before surgery in the future, following these guidelines.

    Before I started trt my first doctor said I had non reversible gyno. He was also the doctor that wouldn't prescribe an ai, for a number of reasons but also because I needed surgery anyways, lol.
    I started trt, and in the mean time switched doctors, and got an appointment with a plastic surgeon. I am kind of lucky I found someone respectable, because he basically turned me away. He gave me some options and ideas, and thought it might be best to do this in the future instead. Basically when I started trt it started to diminish to a degree. And even now over a year later it doesn't bother me so much at this point in time. This doctor basically didn't think he could do a good job making it look a whole lot better. His final advice was if I was going to be losing weight get to a weight I was going to be staying close to and see him again.

    Sure it cost me a couple hundred bucks or so to get that info, but it was kind of worth it. I have noticeable breast tissue especially if you touch the area and feel it, but it isn't that bad. I imagine a lot of people are in my shoes, with minor gyno that they think will require surgery. I would just say don't jump the gun on something like that. I don't know why mine has improved, I haven't taken any serms, and have only been on an AI for about less than half of my time on trt, even had upper end E2 while not running ai but felt good and didn't see any increases to it. I basically obtained gyno late in puberty.

    It could be the loss in body fat that makes the small bit of gyno I have less pronounced. I imagine should i get under 10% bodyfat that it will be much more clear what is going on there.

    I would suggest, even if someone wants to operate on you to take the cheaper less invasive route if you can, see if you can make a difference, there are some other protcols and methods others have used, but I'm not sure on how well they work either. Surgery can go a lot of ways, you could end up really unhappy with the results too. I've looked at plenty of pictures, and some I just don't feel impressed by at all, if you can remedy with drugs I would imagine the shape would be a lot better. And unless you are bodybuilding and going to 3-5% bf then even small amounts of gyno can be somewhat unnoticeable. I believe the doctors told me something like 25% of men had gyno to a degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XxAndreaxX View Post
    Very interesting Austinite.
    Look, I'm in 4th week of PCT, and still have a little lump under one breast.
    This week, its normally 1/2 nolva a day, but maybe I should do an extra week, and go on this week with 1 nolva and 1 clomid /day, and next week, half each...
    Nipples are not puffy at all, only a little lump there, and I'd like to get rid of.
    Are you asking a question Andrea? Can't find a question mark.

    Good luck pal.
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    XxAndreaxX is offline Senior Member
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    yeah, the question is, should I do extra weeks of nolva until gyno-lump is gone, or should I follow the normal schedule?

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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Introduction



    Furthermore; you better not be bulking at 15 or 16% BF either. Bulking should never be done, in my opinion, until you're at 13% or less. You can get there with diet alone, and if you can't, you shouldn't be considering steroids .


    ~ Austinite
    i was wondering about this,if i want to cycle, and in my case (i was so fat before) , once i drop my calories, i find it hard to preserve muscle , so basically i am stuck ..
    either i am at 15 % bodyfat with decent muscle mass (to my needs) or at 10-12% sucked up and skinny as a stripper , with low weight that many dudes would tell me , that i need to have more weight before cycling by dieting and eating more ..
    might be my age?
    what would u suggest ?
    i know this might look a silly question but the story of my life was : how to bulk ?
    i would like to say that i am on a restricted diet from like 2 years ... clean sources .. so yes.. i have an idea about how to diet and the importance of it..
    Last edited by Rida5d; 10-01-2013 at 05:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Just because your internet tells you that your 20% body fat is normal for a male your age, does not mean it's safe to cycle. Forget those ratings. Anything above 15 or 16% is TOO OVERWEIGHT to cycle. There are general health ratings, and then there are steroid-user ratings. I'm telling you, that if you're above 16%, you're carrying too many aromatase enzymes. This will lead to higher testosterone -to-estrogen conversion and will make it very difficult to manage. It's no surprise that most of the folks posting gynecomastia threads are overweight for steroid use.
    I don't get the aromatase argument at all. 100mg test pw with 300mg Mast pw is doing a fine job on my 20%... oh, wait, 18% bf. It's working fine, and I'm getting stronger. What am I missing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by flenser View Post
    I don't get the aromatase argument at all. 100mg test pw with 300mg Mast pw is doing a fine job on my 20%... oh, wait, 18% bf. It's working fine, and I'm getting stronger. What am I missing?

    Did u say 100 mg test per week?
    U are injecting less than u are producing naturally
    Do u really expect sides from 100 mg per week!?
    Try a serious /average test dosage and let's speak about sides
    Last edited by Rida5d; 10-01-2013 at 08:31 AM.

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    Unfortunately, I produce a lot less test than that naturally. 100mg pw is my TRT dose. I added the mast to avoid the E2 sides. I'm only trying to maintain strength while losing fat. My point was that it seems to be working despite all the warnings I read against it.

    No argument on the sides using higher test at high bf, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XxAndreaxX View Post
    yeah, the question is, should I do extra weeks of nolva until gyno-lump is gone, or should I follow the normal schedule?
    THis is answered in the linked threads. If you choose Nolva, and it's part of you PCT, yes, you continue to run it at 20mg daily..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rida5d View Post
    i was wondering about this,if i want to cycle, and in my case (i was so fat before) , once i drop my calories, i find it hard to preserve muscle , so basically i am stuck ..
    either i am at 15 % bodyfat with decent muscle mass (to my needs) or at 10-12% sucked up and skinny as a stripper , with low weight that many dudes would tell me , that i need to have more weight before cycling by dieting and eating more ..
    might be my age?
    what would u suggest ?
    i know this might look a silly question but the story of my life was : how to bulk ?
    i would like to say that i am on a restricted diet from like 2 years ... clean sources .. so yes.. i have an idea about how to diet and the importance of it..
    Well, if you're eating less than your expenditure (off cycle), you will lose some muscle for sure. In your case, I would probably try using something like Synephrine while eating a ton of food.

    Your height/weight is fine. But here's the difference, Rida, you get blood work regularly, so even if your BF is higher than suggested, you do a good job monitoring, which is unlike most people. So you should be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flenser View Post
    I don't get the aromatase argument at all. 100mg test pw with 300mg Mast pw is doing a fine job on my 20%... oh, wait, 18% bf. It's working fine, and I'm getting stronger. What am I missing?
    Not everyone reacts the same. But show me your blood work that states you're "Fine". I never said you won't get strong. Not even remotely close to finding anything relating to that anywhere that I said. Can you show me where I said you won't get strong? Or are you making up random arguments?

    I'll check the thread later to see your blood work and where you can point out that I said you won't get stronger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Well, if you're eating less than your expenditure (off cycle), you will lose some muscle for sure. In your case, I would probably try using something like Synephrine while eating a ton of food.

    Your height/weight is fine. But here's the difference, Rida, you get blood work regularly, so even if your BF is higher than suggested, you do a good job monitoring, which is unlike most people. So you should be fine.
    Thnx for the input austinite..
    Yes I'm lucky as I do blood tests like every 2 weeks on cycle and post cycle as those blood tests are considered within my cycle budget.. And frankly speaking they are relatively cheap.

    @ flenser .. I think you might not get any sides from 100 mg per week, as for masteron I won't count on it to manage estrogen issues, the only one time I had sensitive nipples was when I was at a higher (than usual) body fat and guess what.. With masteron on board.
    Good luck man

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    ^ I missed that 100mg comment. But even then, dout lipids look any good. Especially at his BF. Masteron with low test is a crapshoot for a cycle really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Not everyone reacts the same. But show me your blood work that states you're "Fine". I never said you won't get strong. Not even remotely close to finding anything relating to that anywhere that I said. Can you show me where I said you won't get strong? Or are you making up random arguments?

    I'll check the thread later to see your blood work and where you can point out that I said you won't get stronger.
    No, actually getting stronger was a surprise, and I didn't mean to imply you said that I wouldn't. Your main argument against cycling at high bf levels seems to be aromatase, though, which shouldn't happen with mast - or at least that's my understanding. I am ready to learn I'm making a serious mistake (hopefully before suffering the consequences), or I wouldn't have posted : )

    I plan on getting blood work in 2 more weeks, and I'm very interested in your opinions.

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    I should have posted the whole TRT program: 50mg Test C 2pw, 250iu hcg 2pw, .25 adex 2pw. I added the mast after getting 6 week blood work - no lipids, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flenser View Post
    No, actually getting stronger was a surprise, and I didn't mean to imply you said that I wouldn't. Your main argument against cycling at high bf levels seems to be aromatase, though, which shouldn't happen with mast - or at least that's my understanding. I am ready to learn I'm making a serious mistake (hopefully before suffering the consequences), or I wouldn't have posted : )

    I plan on getting blood work in 2 more weeks, and I'm very interested in your opinions.
    Mast retained a bit of inhibitory properties after conversion, but is no way worth being a primary aromatase inhibitor. Although 100mg in my case is my TRT dose, which I would not require an inhibitor at all. So yeah, low doses may not result in high aromatase (not common for someone age 50 btw). But you have other issues to attend to, masteron can wreck your lipids, you also need to watch your blood pressure as that's a serious concern when cycling at 20%.

    It's really no secret. No matter how you look at it, it's unhealthy to cycle at high body fat, period. And yes, 20% is too fat. We also have to remember, the number of folks responsible to their own bodies is less than 5%. So articles like this are generally to help the 95% that want instant gratification without any regard to thier health.

    Blood work is always key, but won't always save you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Mast retained a bit of inhibitory properties after conversion, but is no way worth being a primary aromatase inhibitor. Although 100mg in my case is my TRT dose, which I would not require an inhibitor at all. So yeah, low doses may not result in high aromatase (not common for someone age 50 btw). But you have other issues to attend to, masteron can wreck your lipids, you also need to watch your blood pressure as that's a serious concern when cycling at 20%.

    It's really no secret. No matter how you look at it, it's unhealthy to cycle at high body fat, period. And yes, 20% is too fat. We also have to remember, the number of folks responsible to their own bodies is less than 5%. So articles like this are generally to help the 95% that want instant gratification without any regard to thier health.

    Blood work is always key, but won't always save you.
    Well, you have at least convinced me to get blood work early. I'll set it up for Friday. I do monitor my BP, and it is so far the same low-to-normal after adding the mast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flenser View Post
    Well, you have at least convinced me to get blood work early. I'll set it up for Friday. I do monitor my BP, and it is so far the same low-to-normal after adding the mast.
    Good call.
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    XxAndreaxX is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    THis is answered in the linked threads. If you choose Nolva, and it's part of you PCT, yes, you continue to run it at 20mg daily..
    Thanks man

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    I have a question...can the fatty tissue associated with pyseudogynecomastia be hard? Like many small beads around the nipple area.
    I'm at 19% bf and wondering if it will go away with diet.

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    austinite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenaline99 View Post
    I have a question...can the fatty tissue associated with pyseudogynecomastia be hard? Like many small beads around the nipple area.
    I'm at 19% bf and wondering if it will go away with diet.
    No..
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    I feel like I have very minimal pubertal gyno but not sure, I might run ralox later on in life just to see if I get a sharper look afterwards.

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    Great thread man

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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Mast retained a bit of inhibitory properties after conversion, but is no way worth being a primary aromatase inhibitor. Although 100mg in my case is my TRT dose, which I would not require an inhibitor at all. So yeah, low doses may not result in high aromatase (not common for someone age 50 btw). But you have other issues to attend to, masteron can wreck your lipids, you also need to watch your blood pressure as that's a serious concern when cycling at 20%.

    It's really no secret. No matter how you look at it, it's unhealthy to cycle at high body fat, period. And yes, 20% is too fat. We also have to remember, the number of folks responsible to their own bodies is less than 5%. So articles like this are generally to help the 95% that want instant gratification without any regard to thier health.

    Blood work is always key, but won't always save you.
    I managed to get BW taken on 10/2 which PMD posted today. The lipid panel isn't much different than those from annual physicals as far back as 2008 when I started eating paleo-ish. LDL is a little higher than I expected, though. My BP is consistently in the 120/70 range, and hasnít changed so far.

    I did notice my resting heart rate is up from the low 40s to around 60 and I have been sucking wind on daily bike/runs. I was sort of hoping that had more to do with the calorie deficit than the masteron, but I donít know. The whole point of adding the masteron was to retain muscle while cutting, and that part at least is working as planned Ė that is, if you discount feeling famished all the time.

    Anyway, would appreciate any feedback. I'm not fixated on any particular course of action. I would stop immediately if I thought my current approach was harmful. Also wondering about the adex I'm taking. With E2 at 19, shoudl I really be taking it?


    From before starting TRT
    Cholesterol, Total 231 mg/dL 100 Ė 199
    Triglycerides 49 mg/dL 0 − 149
    HDL Cholesterol 78 mg/dL >39
    VLDL Cholesterol Cal 10 mg/dL 5 − 40
    LDL Cholesterol Calc 143 mg/dL 0 − 99
    Testosterone , Serum 497 ng/dL 348 − 1197
    Free Test (Direct) 8.2 pg/mL 7.2 − 24.0
    LH 5.6 mIU/mL 1.7 − 8.6
    Estradiol not provided

    TRT after 6 weeks
    Testosterone, Serum 1279 ng/dL 348 − 1197
    Free Test (Direct) 25.8 pg/mL 7.2 − 24.0
    Estradiol 17.6 pg/mL 7.6 − 42.6 01
    LH not provided
    Cholesterol not provided

    Three weeks after adding 100mg Mast eod (350mg pw)
    Cholesterol, Total 243 mg/dL 100-199
    Triglycerides 59 mg/dL 0-149
    HDL Cholesterol 54 mg/dL >39
    VLDL Cholesterol Cal 12 mg/dL 5-40
    LDL Cholesterol Calc 177 mg/dL 0-99
    TSH 5.190 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500
    Thyroxine (T4) 5.4 ug/dL 4.5-12.0
    T3 Uptake 31 % 24-39
    Free Thyroxine Index 1.7 1.2-4.9
    Testosterone, Serum 1113 ng/dL 348-1197
    Testosterone,Free 42.85 ng/dL 5.00-21.00
    Estradiol, Sensitive 19 pg/mL 3-70

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    ^ No need since e2 is fine.
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    ^ Appreciate the response. Always feels like I'm on the wrong side of the learning curve with this stuff.

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    This may be a stupid question, but I'm still in the process of reading everything and learning as I haven't started taking any steroids yet. I was wondering if you decide not to cycle but to take less dosis than in the cycles, can your body still generate more muscle mass or you need to cycle to get this? And also, I guess it would be more unlikely to have gynecomastia if you don't cycle? Just because you would be taking less dosis...
    Also, can any type of steroids generate excess of strogen in your body or it's only some of them?

    As you can guess I'm a bit lost with all this, so trying to find my feet around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoboy79 View Post
    This may be a stupid question, but I'm still in the process of reading everything and learning as I haven't started taking any steroids yet. I was wondering if you decide not to cycle but to take less dosis than in the cycles, can your body still generate more muscle mass or you need to cycle to get this? And also, I guess it would be more unlikely to have gynecomastia if you don't cycle? Just because you would be taking less dosis...
    Also, can any type of steroids generate excess of strogen in your body or it's only some of them?

    As you can guess I'm a bit lost with all this, so trying to find my feet around.
    Well, yes, you can generate growth with less than the typical 500 mg weekly, but that is dose/response dependant. One man could do great with 350 mg, another might need 500 mg weekly. But everyone should respond very well between 400 and 500mg weekly. Lower doses (Especially if using UGL gear) will probably be unsatisfactory.

    As for gynecomastia, you can develop gynecomastia with much lower doses. This is again, dose and body dependant. You could be hypersensitive, or overweight, in which case even the smallest amounts could convert heavily.

    The answer to your question is you need blood work mid cycle to monitor your E2. Anything else is a guessing game as this is too individualistic to generalize.
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    Yoboy79 is offline New Member
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    Thanks Austinite for your reply, so good to hear from someone so professional.

    So I take it as overweight people are more likely to develop gynecomastia ? My body fat is 18%, which according to your thread you would suggest not bulking, but I must say that my weight is 130, 5ft7, waist 31 inch, my body type is an ectomorph-skinny but with a bit of belly... would that still be a risk to develop gynecomastia if I try to bulk taking steroids ?
    Would you suggest taking steroids as well as SERM's at the same time to preventing the risk?

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    Yes, because the more fat density a person carries, the more aromatase enzymes they will have. 18% is really not that bad. I always recommend you bring it down below 16%. Certainly do not run a bulking cycle at that BF.

    In some cases a SERM on cycle would be appropriate. The only way to prevent gynecomastia is blood work. Without blood work, you can take aromatase inhibitors and SERMs all day long, you still wouldn't be able to guarantee anything. As mentioned earlier, you could be hypersensitive and the typical doses will not suffice. Only blood work will tell all. I don't recommend that anyone cycle any steroids without easy access to blood work.
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    Right I see, I can understand that a blood test is really important, but once I get it, what should I be looking at? What will tell me that I am hypersensitive?

    Thanks for your recomendation to not cycling above 16% BF, I was a bit scared anyway, I want actually to take fewer doses, as you said before, everybody should respond quite well at around 400 mg weekly.

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    You're looking at your estradiol levels. You want to be sure they're in range, below the max. If your estradiol levels are in range, you'll be fine. If you're taking an aromatase inhibitor and your levels are above range, that means you need to adjust your inhibitor dose to accommodate further inhibition. You also want to be sure not to take too much, otherwise you will deplete your E2 levels and you'll be rendered useless with extreme lethargy and a host of other depressing side effects.

    This monitoring takes patience and with experience, you will learn how your body reacts to both; testosterone doses and inhibitor doses. Nearly 100% of the folks who started threads about how to reverse gynecomastia simply failed to cycle responsibly; ie observing serum estradiol or not using an AI.

    As for hypersensitivity, you'll know when the common inhibitor dose fails and your E2 sky rockets.

    Keep up the research, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders.
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    Thanks Austinite, you're really helping me a lot.

    I've just done a quick research and aparently male normal levels of estradiol would be between 10 and 50 pg/ml, so I guess if I get the blood test and my results are between those amounts means that I am not hypersensitive, should I still take the SERM's in that case? Considering that I'm not cycling but taking lower doses...

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    Look for a sensitive estradiol assay. Not the regular estradiol. It's usually < 39. So you want to stay away from 0, and keep below 39.

    But yes, so long as you're in range you're fine. SERMs can be used if you're already elevated, at least until you bring it down.
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