First Cycle Help!

**Markymark7** · 02-02-2014, 02:03 AM

27 years old
8 years of training
planning my first 12 week test e only cycle and would really appreciate you guys help! Ive read that 500mg per week is great to start so ive decided to go with that, but Im a little confused as to what to do during wk 13 & 14. Should I stick with the adex? or completely get off everything leading into PCT?

wk 1-12
.25mg adex eod (will up dosage if unwanted signs start to show)
mondays & thursdays- 250mg test e

wk 13 & 14

wk 15-18
Nolva 40/40/20/10

any feedback would be great, thanks!

**samuelsteven** · 02-02-2014, 02:29 AM

12 weeks sounds perfect, but some dbol would be a good idea as a kick start. I would stay on adex all the way through the cycle, there's always a risk of gyno while the hormones are active in your system.

**Muscleduke** · 02-02-2014, 03:03 AM

Carry on running adex during 2 weeks between cycle and pct.

Run HCG 250iu per week x2

Pct should look like / Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20

Just Nolvadex will not cut it. Don't start the cycle with dbol save that for 2nd/3rd cycle

**samuelsteven** · 02-02-2014, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by Muscleduke

Carry on running adex during 2 weeks between cycle and pct.

Run HCG 250iu per week x2

Pct should look like / Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20

Just Nolvadex will not cut it. Don't start the cycle with dbol save that for 2nd/3rd cycle

Why do you disagree with my suggestion to use Dbol ? Why should he have to wait until a 3rd cycle? Also I'd have to disagree with Nolvadex not being sufficient on its own with such a simple cycle, especially if he does run hcg with it. Clomid comes with more possible side effects, one being ruining your eye sight after using it for a while, plus Nolvadex is Prolly 3x as strong. I could see if he was prone for gyno or starting to feel lumps, but I'd stick with nolvadex alone for this first cycle.

**Muscleduke** · 02-02-2014, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by samuelsteven

Why do you disagree with my suggestion to use Dbol? Why should he have to wait until a 3rd cycle? Also I'd have to disagree with Nolvadex not being sufficient on its own with such a simple cycle, especially if he does run hcg with it. Clomid comes with more possible side effects, one being ruining your eye sight after using it for a while, plus Nolvadex is Prolly 3x as strong. I could see if he was prone for gyno or starting to feel lumps, but I'd stick with nolvadex alone for this first cycle.

If he runs dbol and test together for his first cycle and he gets bad side effects he will not know which compound caused these effects.

You do not know wether he is prone to gyno or not, even so that's besides the point. Nolvadex and clomid work together to increase chances of recovery, Nolvadex on its own will not be as effective as using them both together. Clearly you haven't educated yourself, maybe you should do this before you start giving miss leading advice.

**samuelsteven** · 02-02-2014, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by Muscleduke

If he runs dbol and test together for his first cycle and he gets bad side effects he will not know which compound caused these effects.

You do not know wether he is prone to gyno or not, even so that's besides the point. Nolvadex and clomid work together to increase chances of recovery, Nolvadex on its own will not be as effective as using them both together. Clearly you haven't educated yourself, maybe you should do this before you start giving miss leading advice.

No need to try and belittle me for giving my opinion and advice based on experience. How many cycles have you run, where Nolvadex plus clomid helps you recover faster then Nolvadex alone? You don't promote the use of a 2nd compound during a first cycle but you promote a double compound for the PCT? So he should take both just because you say it works better and he shouldn't worry about the sides from either, even if Nolvadex may have been more then sufficient alone? Makes more sense to me to start off with just Nolvadex which I think should aid is recovery pretty quick versus just throwing clomid in 120mg of clomid in while the only thing it may do extra for him is decrease his responsiveness of LG to GNRH while Nolvadex is trying to increase it.

I do plenty of research and have for years now, for years before I even started using aor brewing. My advice is based on experience as well, not just from what I read.
I mean if he needs it because for some weird reason Nolvadex isn't enough, then Yea add clomid, don't just throw it in just because you read that it's better.

**Muscleduke** · 02-02-2014, 04:45 AM

2 compounds during a cycle for example test and dbol are both completely different to 2x pct meds. You are complaining about the sides of clomid but they do not compare to the sides of dbol of which you are telling the op to use...

Oh and yes I've used Nolvadex alone. I have also used Nolvadex and clomid of which sped up recovery time compared to Nolvadex by its self. So i am speaking from experience.

Neither myself the op or readers I'm sure aren't interested in the fact they you brew your own gear and can say a few fancy words. Your giving bad advice. I will not be posting in this thread again so please don't waste your time replying to my "opinion"

You are contradicting yourself samuelsteven.

Op I'm sure a vet will chip in soon, I hope you find the answers your looking for.
I'm sure you will benefit from reading this My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

**Euroholic** · 02-02-2014, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Muscleduke

Carry on running adex during 2 weeks between cycle and pct.

Run HCG 250iu per week x2

Pct should look like / Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20

Just Nolvadex will not cut it. Don't start the cycle with dbol save that for 2nd/3rd cycle

Im still not convinced. You can use the both but if you have to pick one to do the job its nolvadex

**samuelsteven** · 02-02-2014, 05:05 AM

Dude there's no hope in making you understand anything, I'm saying, you are just about trying to act like you know more then I do, right?

I just checked your profile and I thought it was kind of funny that about 6 months ago you created a post asking if you should start using AAS and your 20 yrs old. In that post you hadn't even used anything yet and said you weren't gonna use anything for at least 8 months until u reached 21. But you claim that u have run multiple cycles and tried both Nolvadex alone and then both on another. LOL, so in 6 months or so you've run multiple 18 week cycles plus the breaks in between and have so much experience with the use of these things? SMH. Enough said here.

Markymark, you don't have to take my advice if you don't want to, it's all just what works well for me, I can't say what works for anybody else. Research on your own is always the way to go, everyone reacts different on these things. Do research on me if you'd like, I always do before I take ones advice, to make sure they have an idea of what they are talking about.

**Muscleduke** · 02-02-2014, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Euroholic

Im still not convinced. You can use the both but if you have to pick one to do the job its nolvadex

Of course nolvadex works on its own, I didn't say it didn't. but the 2 compounds are stronger together!

**Muscleduke** · 02-02-2014, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by samuelsteven

Dude there's no hope in making you understand anything, I'm saying, you are just about trying to act like you know more then I do, right?

I just checked your profile and I thought it was kind of funny that about 6 months ago you created a post asking if you should start using AAS and your 20 yrs old. In that post you hadn't even used anything yet and said you weren't gonna use anything for at least 8 months until u reached 21. But you claim that u have run multiple cycles and tried both Nolvadex alone and then both on another. LOL, so in 6 months or so you've run multiple 18 week cycles plus the breaks in between and have so much experience with the use of these things? SMH. Enough said here.

Markymark, you don't have to take my advice if you don't want to, it's all just what works well for me, I can't say what works for anybody else. Research on your own is always the way to go, everyone reacts different on these things. Do research on me if you'd like, I always do before I take ones advice, to make sure they have an idea of what they are talking about.

Not at all! As you are I'm just giving my opinion! If you carry on reading my posts I'm sure you will find out what I have run in the past. Keep on reading dude, and get your facts straight about myself please before you post them in a thread!

Each to their own hey!

**samuelsteven** · 02-02-2014, 05:23 AM

Am I ready?

There's your facts, show me where multiple cycles fits from then til now. Or maybe where you're from the years are shorter, and maybe your 27 now wirh all these cycles under your belt.. now who are you to give compound consuming advice to anyone? I'm willing to bet that you have no experience with nolvadex or clomid and at the very most you may be midway through your first cycle. Seems like you are the one contradicting yourself.

By the way, I wouldn't mix two different ugl vials of test together as u asked in another post. You shouldn't have even started that cycle if u didn't have what u needed. That's the beauty of getting to brew my own gear, I don't have to go buying different stuff from random people and having to mix unknown crap together just cause I insist on rushing a cycle. Remember your own advice, if u mix 2 compounds and have sides, you won't know which is causing problems..lol You may have a reaction to whichever different oils are in those vials, might not even be any hormones in there. But hey nobody cares about what I say..

**Muscleduke** · 02-02-2014, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by samuelsteven

Am I ready?

There's your facts, show me where multiple cycles fits from then til now. Or maybe where you're from the years are shorter, and maybe your 27 now wirh all these cycles under your belt.. now who are you to give compound consuming advice to anyone? I'm willing to bet that you have no experience with nolvadex or clomid and at the very most you may be midway through your first cycle. Seems like you are the one contradicting yourself.

By the way, I wouldn't mix two different ugl vials of test together as u asked in another post. You shouldn't have even started that cycle if u didn't have what u needed. That's the beauty of getting to brew my own gear, I don't have to go buying different stuff from random people and having to mix unknown crap together just cause I insist on rushing a cycle. Remember your own advice, if u mix 2 compounds and have sides, you won't know which is causing problems..lol You may have a reaction to whichever different oils are in those vials, might not even be any hormones in there. But hey nobody cares about what I say..

Haha hey man I had what I needed... Just 2 different brands. Don't hit me where it hurts now! I have just as much rite to give advice to anyone as you do, who knows maybe everything your saying isn't true.. It works both ways

Both vials have same ratio of oils dude don't worry I made sure! Just a heads up both brands are working fine, thanks for your interest! I have ran a cycle before my current one, again keep looking through my posts! Need to dig deeper my friend. Please feel free to pm me if you'd like to discuss this further!

**samuelsteven** · 02-02-2014, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Muscleduke

Haha hey man I had what I needed... Just 2 different brands. Don't hit me where it hurts now! I have just as much rite to give advice to anyone as you do, who knows maybe everything your saying isn't true.. It works both ways

Both vials have same ratio of oils dude don't worry I made sure! Just a heads up both brands are working fine, thanks for your interest! I have ran a cycle before my current one, again keep looking through my posts! Need to dig deeper my friend. Please feel free to pm me if you'd like to discuss this further!

Oh man, go away already, I'm proven my point and u just look silly. You still have no idea what your talking about even with the 2 oils. Unless you have a proper testing lab or are abel to do a melt test on the raw, you don't know what or how much is in either vial. How do you even feel safe giving advice, you break every rule in the "doing AAS safely" book. You aren't even old enough to be on anything, and you'll do dumb sh*t just to run a cycle. You are a poor example to members here. Now run along and kick rocks silly kid.

**Muscleduke** · 02-02-2014, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by samuelsteven

Oh man, go away already, I'm proven my point and u just look silly. You still have no idea what your talking about even with the 2 oils. Unless you have a proper testing lab or are abel to do a melt test on the raw, you don't know what or how much is in either vial. How do you even feel safe giving advice, you break every rule in the "doing AAS safely" book. You aren't even old enough to be on anything, and you'll do dumb sh*t just to run a cycle. You are a poor example to members here. Now run along and kick rocks silly kid.

So have I, I did this a while ago to but you wouldn't stop writing messages. Of course it's ugl they aren't accurately dosed but from what I do know they both use the same oils. There is no book on doing aas safely, even the "safe ways" have risks. E.g using dbol and test for first cycle.

Also I don't do any dumb shit just to run a cycle, very very far off I have you know!

Haha man one day I wish I could be just like you, so humble you are! Best of luck in the future my friend!

**samuelsteven** · 02-02-2014, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Muscleduke

So have I, I did this a while ago to but you wouldn't stop writing messages. Of course it's ugl they aren't accurately dosed but from what I do know they both use the same oils. There is no book on doing aas safely, even the "safe ways" have risks. E.g using dbol and test for first cycle.

Also I don't do any dumb shit just to run a cycle, very very far off I have you know!

Haha man one day I wish I could be just like you, so humble you are! Best of luck in the future my friend!

Nice smiley man, SMH...as I said you are a poor example to anyone in this forum. You're the only member looking foolish here. The smiley is a child's reaction after feeling like a fool. The truth hurts.

**Euroholic** · 02-02-2014, 07:00 AM

Play nice boys. Shake hands and move on

**Muscleduke** · 02-02-2014, 07:00 AM

Ha but yet you still come back for more hey

Thanks again bud been very erm informative! I envy you!

The smiley Is just a form of expression thank you very much

**Markymark7** · 02-02-2014, 02:31 PM

ok i will throw in HCG but is clomid really necessary for such a mild cycle? i have no problem using both I'm just curious!

**Markymark7** · 02-02-2014, 03:15 PM

ok i will throw in HCG but is clomid really necessary for such a mild cycle? i have no problem using both I'm just curious!

**MuscleInk** · 02-02-2014, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Markymark7

ok i will throw in HCG but is clomid really necessary for such a mild cycle? i have no problem using both I'm just curious!

A benefit of clomid over tamoxifen is its spermatogenetic benefit. Both are SERMs and clomiphene has both estrogenic and anti-estrogenic properties but clomid induces spermatogenesis to assist in recover of function as well as sperm motility and volume.

At the doses recommended for a 4 week PCT, the most common side effects (blurred vision and headaches) are minimal and can be minimized by starting doses at 50-75mg max.

**Markymark7** · 02-02-2014, 04:22 PM

Thanks! Now for HCG , when do you recommend I use it? would the same 2 days i pin test be ok? or should i begin HCG 10 days after my last injection? sorry for so many questions i just dont want to f*ck this up!

**MuscleInk** · 02-02-2014, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Markymark7

Thanks! Now for HCG, when do you recommend I use it? would the same 2 days i pin test be ok? or should i begin HCG 10 days after my last injection? sorry for so many questions i just dont want to f*ck this up!

HCG is used during your cycle. You can pin same day or alternate day. Your preference. Most people pin HCG subQ but it can e done I.M. If you prefer.

**Markymark7** · 02-02-2014, 04:26 PM

And for Nolva and Clomid would the pins be on separate days?

**MuscleInk** · 02-02-2014, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Markymark7

And for Nolva and Clomid would the pins be on separate days?

Nolva and clomid are oral. Is this your first cycle? Sounds like a lot of this is very unfamiliar to you. There's more to steroids that just taking compounds recommended by people. You need to understand what hormones will do as well as the risks and side effects. Even 500mg per week of testosterone will cause hypercholesterolemia and (pre)hypertension. Both are dangers to your heart.

**Brett N** · 02-02-2014, 04:32 PM

... nevermind

**Markymark7** · 02-02-2014, 04:33 PM

yes this is my first. Im gonna do some more research before i jump into this, but thanks a lot for the help i really appreciate it

**MuscleInk** · 02-02-2014, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Markymark7

yes this is my first. Im gonna do some more research before i jump into this, but thanks a lot for the help i really appreciate it

You're welcome. Please spend more time reading and understand the risks. Hormones control many functions in your body (sleep, mood, appetite, cognition, sex drive, digestion, immune system, lipid metabolism, metabolic rate, etc) and changes to your normal levels will impact these necessary functions.

**MuscleInk** · 02-02-2014, 04:46 PM

I noticed your profile says you're 18 years old. Please read this link. It's important you do. Many guys have done what you are considering at your age and now wished they had put it off because of the problems they now have.

The young and Steroids