First cycle test-only, total set-up

[Iron Mind]

Hi all,

I'd like to combine a short introduction with my request for some possible advice/check.

Some quick stats about me:
Height: 5 feet and 10 inches or 178cm
Weight: 177lbs or 80,5kg
Years of training: 3 years
Age: 21
Bodyfat: +/- 8% (pretty lean, still dealing with some stubborn fat spots, lower abs, lower back, glutes etc)

I'm training according to the following plan:
Monday: Full-body (only the big 4 and some pull ups)
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Delts, traps and hamstrings
Thursday: Back, triceps
Friday: Legs exclusive hamstrings
Saturday: Chest, biceps
Sunday: Rest

My cardio is about 10-15km a riding by bike to the Univerity, so that covers my cardiovascular and stamina maintenance. At the moment I'm bulking so to say. I've finished my cutting period in december 2014 and I've been increasing my kcal from then until now, until I will gain weight. Still looking for my sweet spot, so I'll keep upping kcal until I gain weight again, will keeping my bodyfat% in check, hopefully.

I eat 4800-5000kcal on trainingsdays (high protein, high carb, moderate fat) and on rest days I try to avoid cardio and reduce my kcal intake according to my lower activity level, based on my past experiences and eat 3500-4000kcal on restdays (high protein, low-moderate carb, high fat).

My best 1RM's from last year @ 88kg bw:
Bench press: 120kg
Overhead press: 80kg
Squat: 155kg
Deadlift: 220kg

I might post some pictures of my physique later on, if I'm allowed to do so.

The last 3 years I've trained natural and I'm thinking about starting my first AAS cycle to take it to the next level.

I was thinking about running a test-only so see what AAS does for me and how it goes.
Test-only
Week 1-12: Test-e @ 250mg every 3,5day (500mg/weekly)
Week 1-14: hCG @ 2-3 x 250iu a week (discontinue hCG use 4-5 days before week 15)
Week 1-14: Aromasin (Exemestane) @ 12,5-25mg ED
Week 15-18: Nolvadex (tamoxifen ) @ 20mg ED



Maybe a note of interest I'm also running blood work, pre (2 weeks prior cycle) and post-cycle (6-8 weeks after PCT).
Haemoglobin (Hb)
Haematocrit
ASAT
ALAT
gamma-GT
Urea
Creatinine
Triglycerides
HDL
LDL
Total cholesterol
TSH, T4
CK
Testosterone
Free testosterone
SHBG
LH
FSH
E2
IGF-1*


* I've also read that some people have IGF-1 in their bloodwork list, but I'm unsure what the value of that would be. The only thing I can make up is that those people would like to check if their hGH or IGF-1 they're using is doing the work what it should. I have no intentions to do yet, so I won't include IGF-1 in my regular blood work I suppose.

During my cycle (week 6-8 of my cycle) I will check my E2 (and total, free testosterone) to check if my AI is dosed right for a good E2 management. And increase, decrease or maintain dosage depending on the E2 results during the cycle.



If I still get gyno with 12,5mg Aromasin ED, I'd up the Aromasin to 25mg ED (If I'm already at that dose, I wouldn't up it I guess?) and start using 20-40mg nolva ED until it disappears and then lower the nolva dose to 10-20mg ED and continue using nolva until PCT ends. Of course discontinue AI before PCT starts, like I would normally.



My main questions for the thread are:
- What do you guys think about it?
- Not sure if I should start with 12,5mg or 25mg ED of Aromasin, I might start with 12,5mg and see how it all goes.
- Should I include IGF-1 in my mandatory blood work, it is pretty expensive and maybe not necessary to check. Any thoughts about it?
- Any thoughts about how much lean body mass gain I could expect?
- What about my thoughts about anti gyno management?


Hoping for some reactions from you guys.
Cheers, iron addicts.

[mevskie]

Like many people will tell you 21 is still young and natural test should be flying high with main gains still coming.

[clarky.]

First off your pct is disgraceful. Have a read at this link pls don't be put of by the title there is great information in it.

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-steroids.html

You look good you could do more before you start using AAS at your age you won't get advice about using AAS here from any good members but you can get great information on anything BB'ing.

[Chicagotarsier]

^^^^^^^ LMAO

Back in the middle ages they were called Crusaders ... Do as I say or you can have no cake lol.

The first cycle test only sticky lays out the cycle you are looking for. Fairly easy to find. Talks on all aspects of the cycle.

IGF-1 is nice to see but expensive test. From published scientific journals concerning cycles it will show a higher level at 500 mg/week but not much an improvement for any additional 500mg/week you add.

Aromasin at 12.5 is a good place to start ED or EoD. The purpose of a test only cycle is to get dialed in and watch for sides before you get on truly serious doses.

Your gains are heavily diet dependant. Read the nutrition section and get your macro solid and clean. Eating enough calories is as important to gains as taking the AAs. Some people start at 500 over maintenance while others bump to 1000. My first cycle was incredible but it was longer and I had been test deficient for years so I was best case scenario for results.

All the answers are in the stickies. Good luck on your journey.

[qscgugcsq]

your PCT is a bit weak and yes 21 is on the young side.

add clomid at 50mg daily for 4 weeks and it is ok

however, you clearly did your reasearch and look very serious.

that shows alot of maturity and dedication. Good job for that very few do the same...

12.5mg ED of aromasin as a start is ok see with BW and sides.

IGF-1 is interesting to know but not very usefull for a test cycle.

if you have it free then include it it will just be interesting to see. if you pay for for the BW, drop it, it do not worth the money.

your gains will be diet dependant.

if you are able to maintain your weight at 5000 cals... I personnally would keep it this way on cycle. youll recomp nicely bigger and leaner.

but if you want to bulk. you might aim for 6000cals.
if you can eat 5000 without gaining weight when cutting time will come it will be extremely easy... so dont be scared of eating over 1000 surplus. Just my .02

however Carbs are building muscle... not fat nor protein... I would increase your carbs intake...

I do think that if you training is appropriate gaining and keeping a good 4-5 kilo is extremely possible.

good luck

[Iron Mind]

Like many people will tell you 21 is still young and natural test should be flying high with main gains still coming.

I agree on the age part, but as some may know. Gains are not as the used to be after 3 years of "proper" training, diet.

First off your pct is disgraceful. Have a read at this link pls don't be put of by the title there is great information in it.

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-steroids.html

You look good you could do more before you start using AAS at your age you won't get advice about using AAS here from any good members but you can get great information on anything BB'ing.

I shall check an other method for the PCT, thanks for mentioning. I've already read that topic, thanks for the reminder. Of course, I could still gain some lean mass natural, but at some time I will reach the point that 1 cycle gives me (more) gains than a year (or more) of natural training would.

^^^^^^^ LMAO

Back in the middle ages they were called Crusaders ... Do as I say or you can have no cake lol.

The first cycle test only sticky lays out the cycle you are looking for. Fairly easy to find. Talks on all aspects of the cycle.

IGF-1 is nice to see but expensive test. From published scientific journals concerning cycles it will show a higher level at 500 mg/week but not much an improvement for any additional 500mg/week you add.

Aromasin at 12.5 is a good place to start ED or EoD. The purpose of a test only cycle is to get dialed in and watch for sides before you get on truly serious doses.

Your gains are heavily diet dependant. Read the nutrition section and get your macro solid and clean. Eating enough calories is as important to gains as taking the AAs. Some people start at 500 over maintenance while others bump to 1000. My first cycle was incredible but it was longer and I had been test deficient for years so I was best case scenario for results.

All the answers are in the stickies. Good luck on your journey.

I'll drop the IGF-1 on the BW, saves me a good amount of cash yeah.

Yeah, I'm not sure if I should get clomid. I thought nolva at 40mg ED the first 2 weeks and last 2 weeks on 20mg ED would be sufficient, but I see clomid in that set-up.

Diet is very important of course. I'll just bump up +500kcal the first week of the cycle and then see what happens.

your PCT is a bit weak and yes 21 is on the young side.

add clomid at 50mg daily for 4 weeks and it is ok

however, you clearly did your reasearch and look very serious.

that shows alot of maturity and dedication. Good job for that very few do the same...

12.5mg ED of aromasin as a start is ok see with BW and sides.

IGF-1 is interesting to know but not very usefull for a test cycle.

if you have it free then include it it will just be interesting to see. if you pay for for the BW, drop it, it do not worth the money.

your gains will be diet dependant.

if you are able to maintain your weight at 5000 cals... I personnally would keep it this way on cycle. youll recomp nicely bigger and leaner.

but if you want to bulk. you might aim for 6000cals.
if you can eat 5000 without gaining weight when cutting time will come it will be extremely easy... so dont be scared of eating over 1000 surplus. Just my .02

however Carbs are building muscle... not fat nor protein... I would increase your carbs intake...

I do think that if you training is appropriate gaining and keeping a good 4-5 kilo is extremely possible.

good luck

Thanks, man. Yeah I really believe in the statement. "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail"

Alright, what would you think about 40mg nolva first 2 weeks and then 20mg ED last 2 weeks, since I'm not sure if I could get clomid.

I'll drop the IGF-1 test then.

Last time I had a pretty easy time with cutting, stayed full and become pretty lean fast on 3800-4000kcal daily and some low-kcal, low-carb days.

I'll just bump up my carbs and protein when I will start the cycle. Something about 5500kcal, 300g protein, 800g carbs and 120g fat. Might want to up the fats, because 800g carbs is a lot of carbs. Might start to develop some insuline resistance on such much carbs. On the other hands with AAS I would become way more anabolic than now so I might get away with so much carbs..

I was thinking about 4-5kg of LBM after PCT also myself yeah.



Thanks for the input everyone! Appreciate it.

[Iron Mind]

I'm now thinking about such a set-up, since I'm not sure if I can get my hands on clomid.

Test-only
Week 1-12: Test-e @ 250mg every 3,5day (500mg/weekly)
Week 1-12: hCG @ 2 x 250iu a week
Week 1-14: Aromasin (Exemestane) @ 12,5-25mg ED (start with 12,5mg ED and check sides, blood if I need less or more)
Week 15-18: Nolvadex (tamoxifen ) @ 40mg ED first 2 weeks, 20mg ED last 2 weeks

[Iron Mind]

More people that want to say something about the current set-up?

[mevskie]

You'll really want to get clomid for PCT. Still weak in that department.

[clarky.]

I'm now thinking about such a set-up, since I'm not sure if I can get my hands on clomid.

Test-only
Week 1-12: Test-e @ 250mg every 3,5day (500mg/weekly)
Week 1-12: hCG @ 2 x 250iu a week
Week 1-14: Aromasin (Exemestane) @ 12,5-25mg ED (start with 12,5mg ED and check sides, blood if I need less or more)
Week 15-18: Nolvadex (tamoxifen ) @ 40mg ED first 2 weeks, 20mg ED last 2 weeks

AR-R top of the page you will get all pct stuff there.

Anyway as for this proposed cycle it's fine apart from your pct start time start at wk 14 not 15. If you can't get clomid you know you will not be giving yourself the best chance of recovery. If it were me i would add 1 more wk @20 if i could not get clomid i know it's just a test cycle but i would want to give myself a good chance of recovery.
Good luck IM.

[Iron Mind]

AR-R top of the page you will get all pct stuff there.

Anyway as for this proposed cycle it's fine apart from your pct start time start at wk 14 not 15. If you can't get clomid you know you will not be giving yourself the best chance of recovery. If it were me i would add 1 more wk @20 if i could not get clomid i know it's just a test cycle but i would want to give myself a good chance of recovery.
Good luck IM.

Thanks for your reply.

I thought you should wait 2 weeks before starting PCT when using test-e?

I'll think about running nolva 5-6 weeks yeah, thanks

[Iron Mind]

Alright so here's my bulk diet for my upcoming cycle:

Week 1-12 = ON CYCLE
5300-5500kcal on training days (+500kcal) (Carbs/protein/fat = 750/300/120)
4200-4500kcal on rest days (+500kcal) (Carbs/protein/fat = 500/300/120)

Week 13-14 = pre-PCT
5300-5500kcal on training days (+500kcal) (Carbs/protein/fat = 750/300/120)
4200-4500kcal on rest days (+500kcal) (Carbs/protein/fat = 500/300/120)

15-19 = PCT
5300-5500kcal op trainingsdagen (+500kcal) (Carbs/protein/fat = 750/300/120)
4200-4500kcal op rustdagen (+500kcal) (Carbs/protein/fat= 500/300/120)

After PCT
5300-5500kcal on training days (+500kcal) (Carbs/protein/fat = 750/300/120)
4200-4500kcal on rest days (+500kcal) (Carbs/protein/fat = 500/300/120)

The plan is to increase kcal or maintain kcal intake on-cycle and see how it goes with my bodyweight, lean mass gain vs. fat gain.
And trying to maintain or maybe even up the kcal further during PCT and the period after (and maybe decrease if +500kcal is too much or whatever).

The idea is to at least not decrease kcal during PCT or the period after PCT.

Any tips or suggestions from you guys?

[Mr.BB]

Why you want to risk your natural produced testosterone that is at its peak now???

It will never go back to what it was. Sounds dumb to me.

[Iron Mind]

Why you want to risk your natural produced testosterone that is at its peak now???

It will never go back to what it was. Sounds dumb to me.

Do you got any evidence for that..?

[Mr.BB]

Do you got any evidence for that..?

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-steroids.html

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...%2A%2A%2A.html

[Iron Mind]

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-steroids.html

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...%2A%2A%2A.html

Alright, but those topics don't cover your statement that you will not recover properly from a "normal" cycle..

I've read that first link indeed about waiting until you're 25y/o. I'm almost 22 btw and at least way better than to start using AAS at 17-18 years old.

The other topic has some threads in it where young guys got into trouble. But from a few topics I've read, they just did something and not plan it accordingly. Taking no blood tests, or blood testing too soon. High dosages etc.

I don't think any of those threads would match or apply to my current situation and set-up from my cycle.


I do appreciate your input, though. Always good to get some more information about the subject. And about my T peak at this age. That might be true, but after 3 years + of proper training gains are further declining by the year even with proper diet, training, rest etc. And by further declining I mean that I would expect only to gain 2-3kg of lean mass the upcoming year, naturally. Since I've only gained 5-6 kg of lean mass last year. There are experience studies out there that confirm this natural decline to gain muscle mass naturally when diet, training etc. is right. It's just how it works. First year you gain x kg lean body mass, year after maybe half of that and so on.

I'm not trying to use this to validate my choice for AAS use at my age. It's just something I'm keeping in the back of my mind at this moment.