***Cycles going wrong for the young***

**marcus300** · 12-03-2012, 10:44 AM

Going to start a thread so I can keep all the links in here and and refer newbies who ask about any threads what relate to cycles going wrong for the young

I can also add to the list as I find new threads

**austinite** · 12-03-2012, 10:52 AM

thank you, marcus. good collection of threads

**Capebuffalo** · 12-03-2012, 10:58 AM

Sticky IMO Mandatory reading for any under 25 yrs old.

**mbreti** · 12-05-2012, 12:24 PM

This will probably piss some people off but... to give a better representation of the situation about "steroids and the young" it would only be fair of doing the equivalent:
A thread of SUCCESSFUL cycles (including PCT/AI's/hCG etc) that worked for young people...
I know I know, its irresponsible in a sense, however, This thread kind of reminds me of the scare tactics about steroids I see on TV.
It may perhaps give a skewed version of the true picture.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the young adults should wait until their endocrine systems and bodies have finished maturing.
But at the end of the day, knowledge is power. Giving them all the information so they can make an educated decision is IMO better than giving them just part of the information.

**marcus300** · 12-05-2012, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by mbreti

This will probably piss some people off but... to give a better representation of the situation about "steroids and the young" it would only be fair of doing the equivalent:
A thread of SUCCESSFUL cycles (including PCT/AI's/hCG etc) that worked for young people...
I know I know, its irresponsible in a sense, however, This thread kind of reminds me of the scare tactics about steroids I see on TV.
It may perhaps give a skewed version of the true picture.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the young adults should wait until their endocrine systems and bodies have finished maturing.
But at the end of the day, knowledge is power. Giving them all the information so they can make an educated decision is IMO better than giving them just part of the information.

We have the information regarding the young and steriods http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ids&highlight=

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-a-first-cycle

I think its wise to show the danger's when we are playing with their health

**Times Roman** · 12-05-2012, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by mbreti

This will probably piss some people off but... to give a better representation of the situation about "steroids and the young" it would only be fair of doing the equivalent:
A thread of SUCCESSFUL cycles (including PCT/AI's/hCG etc) that worked for young people...
I know I know, its irresponsible in a sense, however, This thread kind of reminds me of the scare tactics about steroids I see on TV.
It may perhaps give a skewed version of the true picture.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the young adults should wait until their endocrine systems and bodies have finished maturing.
But at the end of the day, knowledge is power. Giving them all the information so they can make an educated decision is IMO better than giving them just part of the information.

You said it, not me! =)

I don't think we need to further their encouragement. They are already encouraged by coming here at such a young age and wanting to cycle.

The problem with thinking they can form an educated decision, in many cases, is that the reason for them to want to cycle at 18 is emotionally based, not rationally based. So giving them rational contrarian information quite often does nothing to dissuade from an emotional decision. However, giving them rational supporting information may reinforce an emotional decision. It's funny how the mind works. It will decide an outcome, and then selectively filter information to support that decision. So if we really care about their health, and we do, then i think marcus has it right.

No sense playing with a loaded gun.

my .02

**mbreti** · 12-05-2012, 04:34 PM

Yeah fair enough, point taken.
Good thread btw, wasn't dissing it earlier with my post.

I understand their frustration though, when you're busting your ass off in the gym, feeling sick from supersetting legs and then some beast shredded out of his mind walks past... can't help thinking "f this natty crap, I'm gonna inject all kinds of concoctions" ...but no... I shall wait till 25 with the rest of my young comrades.

**marcus300** · 12-05-2012, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by mbreti

Yeah fair enough, point taken.
Good thread btw, wasn't dissing it earlier with my post.

I understand their frustration though, when you're busting your ass off in the gym, feeling sick from supersetting legs and then some beast shredded out of his mind walks past... can't help thinking "f this natty crap, I'm gonna inject all kinds of concoctions" ...but no... I shall wait till 25 with the rest of my young comrades.

To be fair if they are not growing they are doing something wrong,either they aren't training hard enough, over training or not eating correctly.

**EyE** · 12-13-2012, 09:05 PM

I'm being very sincere when I say, "thank you for this tread". I was considering a cycle a few months down the road ( im 23) but I have decided i'm gonna hold off longer and see how things continue to progress naturally. ALSO, sticky worthy............PRETTY PLEASE ADMINS?!?! (Some of us newbs are familiar with forums and actually read that stuff)

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 12:12 AM

I wish the threads contained proper cycles gone bad for the young.... What does posting threads about teenagers using gear without PCT prove? It's same as posting threads about people 25+ using no PCT...
Regardless, opened about 5 or 6 of them and decided to stop... was the same thing over and over again. (ran this no PCT/ran this and that no PCT/ ran the wrong PCT etc...)

**RajaSultan** · 02-08-2013, 12:27 AM

half of the threads look fake ... the kids who posted are just 1 post guys or newly joined ... is this some thread just to scare the young from not trying?

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by RajaSultan

half of the threads look fake ... the kids who posted are just 1 post guys or newly joined ... is this some thread just to scare the young from not trying?

I doubt they are fake. They are simply people who fcked up and are looking for advice. It would make less sense if they had a lot of post, because they would have known better. Also, didn't mean to come off as an ass before. Just wish there was quality threads to prove why taking aas at a young age is not a good idea. Or any threads that show that even with proper pct, hcg , ai etc.. it can still go bad.

**MuscleInk** · 02-08-2013, 02:25 AM

Mickey has done a spectacular job. None of us wants to see a member hurt by AAS and there is simply no denying that endocrine manipulation during a period preceding maturation would carry slightly greater risks. Ideally, controlled studies would be far more conclusive than anecdotal evidence but such studies would be unethical. I'm sure there are numerous stories of young guys who cycled too soon and suffered consequences for their indifference but how many of these people would willingly come forward to discuss their poor decisions? Does everyone who cycles before the magic age of 25 develop problems later on? Certainly not, but the risks IMO are significant enough that as a community we have a responsibility to advise and dissuade (when possible) younger members from experimenting with steroids until their neuroendocrine system (and psychological development) has matured.

I applaud Mickey for his efforts. It is the responsible thing to do and he has my greatest respect.

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 03:10 AM

I see whats you're saying Muscle. But even you say ''slightly greater risks''. There isn't enough concrete information to prove anything really.

Just an example, assuming everyone does the cycle perfectly following the advice of vets on here.
There's a 1 in 1000 chance something goes bad. Than saying that teens have a slightly greater chance is like saying 10 in 1000 (just an example)

The thread should be targeted towards everyone. Not only the young. Because the risk are there for anyone who doesn't use PCT, ai etc..

**MuscleInk** · 02-08-2013, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by dylan111557

I see whats you're saying Muscle. But even you say ''slightly greater risks''. There isn't enough concrete information to prove anything really.

Just an example, assuming everyone does the cycle perfectly following the advice of vets on here.
There's a 1 in 1000 chance something goes bad. Than saying that teens have a slightly greater chance is like saying 10 in 1000 (just an example)

The thread should be targeted towards everyone. Not only the young. Because the risk are there for anyone who doesn't use PCT, ai etc..

Well, that's just it. There isn't a known statistical risk. 1 in 10? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000?

Again, controlled studies would be unethical. The medical community would agree that hormonal
manipulation (eg steroid use ) before the neuroendocrine system has completed its growth cycle would increase risks for long term/permanent damage and subsequent dysfunction across many essential life processes.

I agree with you; anyone, regardless of age, who cycles without appropriate safeguards is taking unnecessary risks with their health and well being.

I believe the directive of Mickey's thread was to raise awareness among our younger (19-25 year olds) members about the real dangers of steroid use prior to HTPA maturation. I know Mickey would never condone reckless use/abuse at any age. I believe he was simply trying to raise a cautionary flag with our youthful members through examples of others who cycled improperly, particularly at a young age, but not exclusive to the young.

EDIT: My apologies to Marcus. I keep referencing Mickey and just realized this is Marcus' valuable thread!!!

**iSwanson** · 02-08-2013, 04:07 AM

I think the bigger problem for most was that they didn't have a PCT plan, AI, HCG , using AAS that are for only the most experienced (tren ), Etc. I read all of them and if my memory is correct not a single person took the proper precautions. I'm not saying that the young are not at a greater risk, but this pretty much just says that if you don't use a PCT, AI, HCG, ect that your at a great risk of permanent damage. But I am yet to read any bad experiences for ANYONE that did a proper cycle for their experience level. But I do still believe that the younger you are the more you're risking.

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Well, that's just it. There isn't a known statistical risk. 1 in 10? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000?

Again, controlled studies would be unethical. The medical community would agree that hormonal
manipulation (eg steroid use ) before the neuroendocrine system has completed its growth cycle would increase risks for long term/permanent damage and subsequent dysfunction across many essential life processes.

I agree with you; anyone, regardless of age, who cycles without appropriate safeguards is taking unnecessary risks with their health and well being.

I believe the directive of Mickey's thread was to raise awareness among our younger (19-25 year olds) members about the real dangers of steroid use prior to HTPA maturation. I know Mickey would never condone reckless use/abuse at any age. I believe he was simply trying to raise a cautionary flag with our youthful members through examples of others who cycled improperly, particularly at a young age, but not exclusive to the young.

EDIT: My apologies to Marcus. I keep referencing Mickey and just realized this is Marcus' valuable thread!!!

To be honest, in my eyes it makes me want to cycle more, the proper way. It doesn't scare me off. That's the problem!

And ya I was wondering if his nicname was Mickey or something you kept calling him that haha

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by iSwanson

I think the bigger problem for most was that they didn't have a PCT plan, AI, HCG, using AAS that are for only the most experienced (tren), Etc. I read all of them and if my memory is correct not a single person took the proper precautions. I'm not saying that the young are not at a greater risk, but this pretty much just says that if you don't use a PCT, AI, HCG, ect that your at a great risk of permanent damage. But I am yet to read any bad experiences for ANYONE that did a proper cycle for their experience level. But I do still believe that the younger you are the more you're risking.

I think the thing is that people who do the proper pct and everything don't end up having problems right away. They have the problems in the Future. And there's no way to tell if it was natural or if it was that cycle they took years ago.

**marcus300** · 02-08-2013, 11:24 AM

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

**marcus300** · 02-08-2013, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by dylan111557

Good read, still useless, but was good none the less.

You dont need aas and when you understand that it will be to late,

I knew you would say that being that you havent been training 12 months yet and are just 18yrs old, you know it all so you carry on and use what ever you like, you will learn the hard way. I can see I am wasting my time and effort in responded to you so in that case best of luck you'll need it

**Armykid93** · 02-08-2013, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by dylan111557

Good read, still useless, but was good none the less.

Lol nice way to completely disrespect someone who's been bodybuilding longer than you have been alive and took a good amount of time to give you some good advice and info. Your a troll

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I knew you would say that being that you havent been training 12 months yet and are just 18yrs old, you know it all so you carry on and use what ever you like, you will learn the hard way. I can see I am wasting my time and effort in responded to you so in that case best of luck you'll need it

I don't understand what I will learn the hard way? All I've ever done was ask questions, i've never propose a cycle or anything. And for you to insult me about how long I've been in the gym is inappropriate. I don't insult the fat angel in you avi. C'mon man.
That's not even me lol. That was my friend that was posted a few months ago in a thread. I'm in my avi or profile.

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Armykid93

Lol nice way to completely disrespect someone who's been bodybuilding longer than you have been alive and took a good amount of time to give you some good advice and info. Your a troll

How does that make me a troll? Or disrespectful.
You seem to have an odd thought process that makes you think you are superior than me, when everyone in this world should be equal.

I'm saying it was interesting to read, but provided no useful information.

And Army if you didn't notice that was a simple copy paste from the other thread. But once again, I guess a good amount of time can be a few seconds, and good advice, far from that.

**The Bear 79** · 02-08-2013, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by dylan111557

I don't understand what I will learn the hard way? And I'm 19 if that makes things better

Exactly, you don't understand..............& your ignorance is going to dump a pile of regret square on your face.

It's all been very clearly laid out, you have to be really fvcking dense to not understand how cycling too young can be harmful.

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

Exactly, you don't understand..............& your ignorance is going to dump a pile of regret square on your face.

It's all been very clearly laid out, you have to be really fvcking dense to not understand how cycling too young can be harmful.

I don't understand, It's not ignorance, it's questions. Questions provide answers. Why would I be ignorant over someone who has more experience over me.
And bear, cycling young can be harmful just slightly more than cycling 25+.. OR did I not understand that right either...

**The Bear 79** · 02-08-2013, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by dylan111557

I don't understand, It's not ignorance, it's questions. Questions provide answers. Why would I be ignorant over someone who has more experience over me.
And bear, cycling young can be harmful just slightly more than cycling 25+.. OR did I not understand that right either...

Apparently you didn't understand that right either.

Under the age of 25 your Endocrine & HPTA systems are still developing & therefore are much more susceptible to permanent damages.

**redz** · 02-08-2013, 11:58 AM

I don't understand, It's not ignorance, it's questions. Questions provide answers. Why would I be ignorant over someone who has more experience over me.
And bear, cycling young can be harmful just slightly more than cycling 25+.. OR did I not understand that right either...

No there are far more risks for example stunting growth and the likely hood of needing trt for life is far greater.

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

Apparently you didn't understand that right either.

Under the age of 25 your Endocrine & HPTA systems are still developing & therefore are much more susceptible to permanent damages.

It doesn't change the fact that if the original risk were 1 in a 1000 and much more susceptible say 10 TIMES MORE SUSCEPTIBLE would be 10 in 1000.
There's no stats to support the theories.

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by redz

No there are far more risks for example stunting growth and the likely hood of needing trt for life is far greater.

Most of your growth is done by age 19, and only a few have the ability to go till 21. And if you aren't concerned with height, wouldn't that not be bad?
Haven't read much about it.

Also, there's no way to prove why aas at teens would have caused later use of trt, it is probably the cause, but there's no way to prove if it was that, or bad luck, or genetics or w/.e

**The Bear 79** · 02-08-2013, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by dylan111557

It doesn't change the fact that if the original risk were 1 in a 1000 and much more susceptible say 10 TIMES MORE SUSCEPTIBLE would be 10 in 1000.
There's no stats to support the theories.

I can't wait to see you in need of TRT & begging for help.

I'm done here.

**redz** · 02-08-2013, 12:07 PM

Also, there's no way to prove why aas at teens would have caused later use of trt, it is probably the cause, but there's no way to prove if it was that, or bad luck, or genetics or w/.e

The amount of people that did cycles young and now have issues compared to people who do it at a later age and don`t is conclusive enough. Exact risks are tough to calculate but non the less there is enough examples to make a logical conclusion that there is a serious increase in risk involved in young people doing steroids .

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by redz

The amount of people that did cycles young and now have issues compared to people who do it at a later age and don`t is conclusive enough. Exact risks are tough to calculate but non the less there is enough examples to make a logical conclusion that there is a serious increase in risk involved in young people doing steroids.

Would you relate the risk to young people doing steroids .
OR to young people doing improper cycles of steroids.

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

I can't wait to see you in need of TRT & begging for help.

I'm done here.

The fact that you would wish that upon someone is almost unimaginable... But thanks.

**redz** · 02-08-2013, 12:19 PM

Would you relate the risk to young people doing steroids .
OR to young people doing improper cycles of steroids.

I would directly attribute it to them being young in most cases. Many people do stupid cycles and recover when they are older compared to the amount of young people on here who end up on TRT in their 20's because of foolish decisions. I don`t wish any harm on anyone and that's the reason I personally try to give advice and make steroids as safe as possible. Many young people taking steroids is the reason the media has so much ammo against it. It gives all users a bad name and makes steroids look more dangerous than they really are.

**dylan111557** · 02-08-2013, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by redz

I would directly attribute it to them being young in most cases. Many people do stupid cycles and recover when they are older compared to the amount of young people on here who end up on TRT in their 20's because of foolish decisions. I don`t wish any harm on anyone and that's the reason I personally try to give advice and make steroids as safe as possible. Many young people taking steroids is the reason the media has so much ammo against it. It gives all users a bad name and makes steroids look more dangerous than they really are.

I think the media puts a lot of emphasis on the sports players who kill there wives. And I do agree with you, I would have just liked this thread to have had young people taking steroids properly and end up on trt. Some proof that it was directly the steroids, and not not having a pct etc...

**marcus300** · 02-08-2013, 12:46 PM

Guys the is no point in trying to educate this child, let him get on with it. Just ignore him he'll find out the hard way

Thanks

**Armykid93** · 02-08-2013, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by dylan111557

The fact that you would wish that upon someone is almost unimaginable... But thanks.

You really are just another ignorant troll with your ridiculous smug remarks.

Your going to hurt yourself plain and simple.

**RajaSultan** · 02-09-2013, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by SteM

What is it with you? Go ahead, screw yourself up, get ED, be on TRT for life, lose any gains because your diet and training stink oh, and that gyno you have? Expect that to get worse and then miss 10weeks gym time and 5 grand that it'll cost you to put right.

all i was saying that the threads looked fake ... i m not taking steroids until age 21 or 25 cuz u guys explained to me what happens and i dnt want it ... i was just saying what i thought ... u dnt need to be so angry at me just cuz i asked a few stupid questions over and over before lol ... i was new ok :/

**boz** · 02-09-2013, 08:53 AM

HA seems as though you have been hard at work again marcus. Just goes to show how often and frequent these sort of threads get brought up, yet we still have the noobs asking the same questions with the same symptoms.

**marcus300** · 02-09-2013, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by boz

HA seems as though you have been hard at work again marcus. Just goes to show how often and frequent these sort of threads get brought up, yet we still have the noobs asking the same questions with the same symptoms.

I known and have you see the state if them of? look like they never lifted in their lifes and of course they know better, just in gnore them they'll understand when you cant get hard and fukll of side and lose everything after the cycle, fuk em just kids

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