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Thread: 3rd Cycle Critique Please

  1. #1
    thephoenix25 is offline Associate Member
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    3rd Cycle Critique Please

    Hi All,

    Here is my current thinking for cycle #3.

    1 - 12 : Test E 500mg p/w
    1 - 12 : Deca 400mg p/w
    2 - (5-7) : Dbol 40mg p/d
    11 - 14 : Test P 500mg p/w

    1 - 14 : Adex 0.5mg e3d
    1 - 2 : Prami 0.125mg p/d
    2 - 3 : Prami 0.25mg p/d
    3 - 14 : Prami 0.5mg p/d
    1 - 14 : HCG 500iu p/w

    15 - 19 : Clomid 100/50/50/50
    15 - 19 : Nolvadex 40/20/20/20

    1 - 19 : NAC 600mg p/d

    My intention is for a bulking cycle. My stats are currently 82kg, ~12%BF, 6ft, I'm on a slow cut till the beginning of the cycle in Sept.

    Particularly interested to check my Prami dose is correct?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    lovbyts's Avatar
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    Why adex .5 every 3rd day instead of .25 every other day?

    You are switching from Test E to P week 11 - 14 : Test P 500mg p/w. How do you plan to run this? 150 mg EOD?

    You might want to consider extending your PCT for 2 weeks since you are running deca

    I would add liv52 and TUDCA just to be save and no need to discontinue at the end of the cycle, all at least one of them to your daily vitamin plan.

  3. #3
    thephoenix25 is offline Associate Member
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    Hi LovByts,

    I've found in my past cycles I seem to convert to estrogen at a higher rate and found that I needed to increase my AI from 0.25mg eod to manage it during the cycles (up to 0.5mg eod for a few days then back to 0.33mg eod once it was under control), so with this in mind I didn't want to allow my estrogen to get high from the start. Also with Dbols estrogenic effects and the consequences of high e with deca , I thought I'd play it safe.

    Yes, test prop at 150mg eod for 525mg p/w overlapping with the test e for 1 week to prevent a lag.

    How would you suggest I extend the PCT? maybe :
    100/100/50/50/50/50 clom
    40/40/20/20/20/20 nolv

    I have liv52 so I'll add that in too, not heard of TUDCA so I'll look into that one, thanks

  4. #4
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    You can drop the clom after week 4 and just extend the nolv.

    You might want to try switching to liquidstane. It seem to work better for some and you just use it every day 25mg. BUT, if your method is working for you then maybe dont need to change it?

    This is a recent quote from Austinite.

    "No one really knows exactly what formula to use. Deca is likely the harshest steroid on your HPTA, therefore it is wise to extend PCT timing. The 2 week difference between the cycles mentioned (14 weeks vs 16 weeks) is not an impactful amount of time. 10 weeks vs. 18 weeks is a big difference and would call for a more aggressive PCT.

    We have to remember that all of this is very individualistic and cannot be quantified with a formula, but based on history and how drugs interact with the majority, you can make judgment calls for the betterment of recovery. In other words, you can assume you'll be OK, or you can take some extra measure to better your chances at recovery.

    The best method in my opinion for the common cycles with Deca (12 to 14 weeks), is to extend PCT for 2 additional weeks. You can use Nolvadex and drop clomiphene after the 4th week. Then you would wait 6 to 8 weeks and confirm recovery with blood work. If the results fail, run another PCT for 4 weeks and retest. If you're good, you're good."


  5. #5
    marcus300's Avatar
    marcus300 is offline ~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
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    Cycle looks fine,

    I like the use of prop to back fill the test e ester up to pct time,

    personally I wouldn't use prami, if you control estrogen correctly from the start you shouldn't have any issues with prolactin,

    pct for 5/6 weeks is fine

    I'd possibly look at dropping the deca at week 11 then test e week 12 then filling the gap with the prop as you described. Gives you more time for the deca to leave the system and it not effecting you to badly.

    adex ed or eod IMHO
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  6. #6
    lovbyts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    Cycle looks fine,

    I like the use of prop to back fill the test e ester up to pct time,

    personally I wouldn't use prami, if you control estrogen correctly from the start you shouldn't have any issues with prolactin,

    pct for 5/6 weeks is fine

    I'd possibly look at dropping the deca at week 11 then test e week 12 then filling the gap with the prop as you described. Gives you more time for the deca to leave the system and it not effecting you to badly.

    adex ed or eod IMHO
    I was thinking also there is really no need to overlap the test E and P since he is running the P at the end. If it was the other way around then I would overlap the two. What do you think Marcus?
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  7. #7
    marcus300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    I was thinking also there is really no need to overlap the test E and P since he is running the P at the end. If it was the other way around then I would overlap the two. What do you think Marcus?
    Yes there isn't much need starting the prop at week 11, he can start it at week 12 once he dropped the test e, its not going to make that much of a difference probably a slight spike but if it was me I would start it at week 12 while the test e ester is dropping back fill with prop, I use to do it many times either with a short ester or even an oral.
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  8. #8
    thephoenix25 is offline Associate Member
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    Thanks for the infos guys.

    I'll stick with the Adex for now as I have it and it worked in the past, just needed a higher dose. I'll look at stane next time round.

    So based on your suggestions the new outline would be (changes in red) :

    1 - 12 : Test E 500mg p/w (250mg e3.5d)
    1 - 11 : Deca 400mg p/w (200mg e3.5d)
    2 - (5-7) : Dbol 40mg p/d
    13 - 14 : Test P 525mg p/w (150mg eod)

    1 - 14 : Adex 0.33mg eod

    1 - 14 : HCG 500iu p/w

    15 - 19 : Clomid 100/50/50/50
    15 - 19 : Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20

    1 - 19 : NAC 600mg p/d + liv52

    Prami in hand (as needed)

    first week : Prami 0.125mg p/d
    second week : Prami 0.25mg p/d
    continuing : Prami 0.5mg p/d
    Last edited by thephoenix25; 06-16-2015 at 02:21 AM. Reason: typo

  9. #9
    marcus300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thephoenix25 View Post
    Thanks for the infos guys.

    I'll stick with the Adex for now as I have it and it worked in the past, just needed a higher dose. I'll look at stane next time round.

    So based on your suggestions the new outline would be (changes in red) :

    1 - 12 : Test E 500mg p/w (250mg e3.5d)
    1 - 11 : Deca 400mg p/w (200mg e3.5d)
    2 - (5-7) : Dbol 40mg p/d
    13 - 14 : Test P 525mg p/w (150mg eod)

    1 - 14 : Adex 0.33mg eod

    1 - 14 : HCG 500iu p/w

    15 - 19 : Clomid 100/50/50/50
    15 - 19 : Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20

    1 - 19 : NAC 600mg p/d + liv52

    Prami in hand (as needed)

    first week : Prami 0.125mg p/d
    second week : Prami 0.25mg p/d
    continuing : Prami 0.5mg p/d
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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  10. #10
    NACH3's Avatar
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    I was going to mention up your NAC(1800) but by adding the liv 52 looks good!

    Very similar to my next cycle, except I'm going to be pulsing my drol throughout...

    In my experience - though my E2 was slightly elevated(my prolactin was aswell) I also waited until mid cycle bloods then made my adjustments(prami/dex)... GL w/your cycle!
    Last edited by NACH3; 06-17-2015 at 02:21 PM.

  11. #11
    thephoenix25 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    I was going to mention up your NAC(1800) but by adding the liv 52 looks good!

    Very similar to my next cycle, except I'm going to be pulsing my drol throughout...

    In my experience - though my E2 was slightly elevated(my prolactin was aswell) I also waited until mid cycle bloods then made my adjustments(prami/dex)... GL w/your cycle!
    Hey Nach,

    Thanks, I'm looking forward to it.

    I'm not familiar with pulsing, could you explain the principle to me please?

  12. #12
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Whats up phoenix! How you been buddy? The attached thread has a good explanation on oral pulsing.

    oral pulsing!!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    Whats up phoenix! How you been buddy? The attached thread has a good explanation on oral pulsing.

    oral pulsing!!!

    That's way out of date on how to pulse an oral,

  14. #14
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    That's way out of date on how to pulse an oral,
    Sorry about the inaccurate information

  15. #15
    NACH3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thephoenix25 View Post
    Hey Nach,

    Thanks, I'm looking forward to it.

    I'm not familiar with pulsing, could you explain the principle to me please?
    Its so you don't experience the sides only the gains... So it'll be my first go w/pulsing throughout, but if you start to experience the sides it's too late(drop right away and then pay attention and cut it say on day 10 rather then 14 - then off for 10...

    I'm going to start w/50mgs of drol and take for 10-14 days - or if sides appear like increased water retention/sides drop it and make note to drop it b4 that happens again... your keeping these things at bay by pulsing - and of course the unwanted sides(stomach irritation loss appetite etc) I'll be watching around the 10day mark - then if I can go to 14 I will w/a 10 day break and repeat!

    It's a great way to keep gaining and gaining throughout cycle w/out the increased water & sides! A vet has helped me w/this and have gotten a few to look it over look into it -

    Hope this helps...
    Last edited by NACH3; 06-18-2015 at 07:16 AM.

  16. #16
    NACH3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    That's way out of date on how to pulse an oral,
    Was that talking about running Orals only - and bridging more or less Marcus??

  17. #17
    thephoenix25 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    Sorry about the inaccurate information
    Hey Numbere,
    Not a problem. Thanks though, it was an interesting read even if its out of date.

    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    Its so you don't experience the sides only the gains... So it'll be my first go w/pulsing throughout, but if you start to experience the sides it's too late(drop right away and then pay attention and cut it say on day 10 rather then 14 - then off for 10...

    I'm going to start w/50mgs of drol and take for 10-14 days - or if sides appear like increased water retention/sides drop it and make note to drop it b4 that happens again... your keeping these things at bay by pulsing - and of course the unwanted sides(stomach irritation loss appetite etc) I'll be watching around the 10day mark - then if I can go to 14 I will w/a 10 day break and repeat!

    It's a great way to keep gaining and gaining throughout cycle w/out the increased water & sides! A vet has helped me w/this and have gotten a few to look it over look into it -

    Hope this helps...
    I like the sound of this. I'm lucky enough not to suffer too much from water retention, but last time with Dbol I had to pay close attention to my E, so this might help even me out a bit. Thanks for the info.

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