LVH after one cycle?

[brobeans443]

I'm planning on doing my first cycle soon and as we know, AAS has been associated with left ventricular hypertrophy in the heart.

I'm curious what the effect of one cycle (9 week testosterone only) would have on LVH? Anyone here had a normal echo before their first cycle and a follow up echo afterwards that showed LVH?







edit - I think you guys might find this interesting..



Lots of rat studies are used when showing the adverse effects of anabolics, so check this out:

Resveratrol prevents pathological but not physiological cardiac hypertrophy. - PubMed - NCBI

"The mechanisms responsible for how resveratrol inhibits pathological left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) but not physiological LVH have not been elucidated. Herein, we show that in rat cardiomyocytes, lower concentrations of resveratrol (0.1 and 1 μM) are efficient at selectively inhibiting important regulators involved in pathological LVH (such as nuclear factor of activated T cells (NFAT)) while not affecting pathways involved in physiological LVH (Akt and p70S6 kinase (p70S6K)). "


Resveratrol might be worthy of taking on your next cycle fellas

[almostgone]

I would respond with my experience, but in your other thread I tried to impress upon you how much a light UGL cycle raised my hematocrit in 5 weeks and your response was that it couldn't have been much higher. You are incorrect. Below is the thread I refer to:

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ore-cycle.html
I would share my experience with since I have an enlarged heart that often goes with left bundle branch block, but I figure you'll ignore my experience with that as well.

[almostgone]

Also know that heavy exercise can increase ventricular and atrial size. The heart is capable of a great deal of remodeling (for which I am very thankful).

Circulation


Excerpt below:

Cardiac dimensional alterations associated with athletic training have been defined over the past 35 years in a number of cross-sectional echocardiographic (or cardiac magnetic resonance) studies, usually performed in highly trained individuals.1,6,9–26,38–42 The responses of individual athletes to systematic conditioning are not uniform. Training induces in ≈50% of trained athletes some evidence of cardiac remodeling, which consists of alterations in ventricular chamber dimensions, including increased left and right ventricular and left atrial cavity size (and volume), associated with normal systolic and diastolic function (Figure 1). For example, marked enlargement of the LV chamber (≥60 mm) occurs in ≈15% of highly trained athletes.10 This chamber enlargement may very occasionally be accompanied by a relatively mild increase in absolute LV wall thickness that exceeds upper normal limits (range 13 to 15 mm).9 LV remodeling with changes in mass is dynamic in nature and may appear to develop relatively rapidly, or more gradually, after the initiation of vigorous conditioning. Such changes, which are reversible with cessation of training, are most impressive in endurance athletes.18–20,27 However, there is considerable overlap in cardiac dimensions between a trained athlete population and age- and sex-matched sedentary controls.42 Athletes show relatively small (but statistically significant) increases of ≈10% to 20% for wall thickness or cavity size, and these values in most individual athletes remain within accepted normal limits......

[brobeans443]

I would respond with my experience, but in your other thread I tried to impress upon you how much a light UGL cycle raised my hematocrit in 5 weeks and your response was that it couldn't have been much higher. You are incorrect. Below is the thread I refer to:

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ore-cycle.html
I would share my experience with since I have an enlarged heart that often goes with left bundle branch block, but I figure you'll ignore my experience with that as well.

I haven't updated that last thread but my hct came back at 48 after getting hydrated as much as I could before bloodwork. I think that level is fine to start a cycle with.

Also, where has it been shown that lvh is commonly associated with lbbb? My cardiologist told me lbbb only happens with lvh in a few cases

[almostgone]

I haven't updated that last thread but my hct came back at 48 after getting hydrated as much as I could before bloodwork. I think that level is fine to start a cycle with.

Also, where has it been shown that lvh is commonly associated with lbbb? My cardiologist told me lbbb only happens with lvh in a few cases

I never said commonly, I said often. It depends on how/what caused the enlargment. I was just sharing what information I had encountered. I would.imagine a.cardiologist,'s experiences will influence what they say.

[kelkel]

Left ventricular size and function in elite bodybuilders using anabolic steroids. - PubMed - NCBI

But seriously, if you're going to worry about every potential outcome, AAS is probably not for you.

[brobeans443]

I never said commonly, I said often. It depends on how/what caused the enlargment.

common/often. Tomayto-tomahto. Any evidence of it being an "often" association?

My main concern is LVH from short term steroid (testosterone) use. I've never seen one study that showed this. However, most long term users seem to encounter LVH at some point

[MuscleScience]

I wouldn't worry to much about it, unless you have some sort of undiagnosed pre-existing condition. The likelihood of pathogenic hypertrophy is very remote.

I would be more concerned with the use of stimulants such as clen or t3/t4 causing some sort of arrhythmia or the heavy use of diuretics.

[brobeans443]

Left ventricular size and function in elite bodybuilders using anabolic steroids. - PubMed - NCBI

But seriously, if you're going to worry about every potential outcome, AAS is probably not for you.

Well the point of this thread was to discuss potential outcomes of a single cycle. I'm curious if any members here have experienced any adverse outcomes from one cycle

[brobeans443]

I wouldn't worry to much about it, unless you have some sort of undiagnosed pre-existing condition. The likelihood of pathogenic hypertrophy is very remote.

I would be more concerned with the use of stimulants such as clen or t3/t4 causing some sort of arrhythmia or the heavy use of diuretics.

Well I have RBBB, but it's a pretty benign condition. And in my case, cardiac hypertrophy was not an underlying cause. (echo came back with normal myocardium function)

[almostgone]

I haven't updated that last thread but my hct came back at 48 after getting hydrated as much as I could before bloodwork. I think that level is fine to start a cycle with.

Also, where has it been shown that lvh is commonly associated with lbbb? My cardiologist told me lbbb only happens with lvh in a few cases

That's because it can be difficult to diagnose unless your cardiologist stays very current. Not hacking against your cardiologist, I was fortunate enough to have the advantage of a cardiologist that is very involved with the cardiology program at a nearby university so I could pick her brain during office visits.

Electrocardiographic diagnosis of the left ventricular hypertrophy in patients with left bundle branch block: is it necessary to verify old criteria? - PubMed - NCBI

[MuscleScience]

Well I have RBBB, but it's a pretty benign condition. And in my case, cardiac hypertrophy was not an underlying cause. (echo came back with normal myocardium function)

I would watch anything the dehydrated you or messes with your cardiac rhythm, like stimulates. But I'm guessing you have been told that.

The heart has protective mechanism to keep it from growing abnormally and occupying more spaces in the mediastinum than it should. Again, unless one has an underlying condition the odds are remote of a problem. Of courses in the athletic world, we mostly never catch problems in apparently healthy individuals until a problem arises. I have exercise tested a LOT of Athletes and I have only ever seen one or two undiagnosed problems based on ecg/ekg readings. Both cases were cleared by our cardiologist if I recall.

[brobeans443]

I think you guys might find this interesting..



Lots of rat studies are used when showing the adverse effects of anabolics, so check this out:

Resveratrol prevents pathological but not physiological cardiac hypertrophy. - PubMed - NCBI

"The mechanisms responsible for how resveratrol inhibits pathological left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) but not physiological LVH have not been elucidated. Herein, we show that in rat cardiomyocytes, lower concentrations of resveratrol (0.1 and 1 μM) are efficient at selectively inhibiting important regulators involved in pathological LVH (such as nuclear factor of activated T cells (NFAT)) while not affecting pathways involved in physiological LVH (Akt and p70S6 kinase (p70S6K)). "


Resveratrol might be worthy of taking on your next cycle fellas