What would be a good first cycle for me?

**Josh7000** · 09-05-2015, 03:28 PM

The things I'm looking for are

1. a cycle that would be beneficial towards joint and soft tissue healing ( seem to have some unknown health problem suspectedly causing lots of random pain, I've heard equipoise could be good for this.

2. that is safe to use and not very toxic

3. That is preferably oral

4. Also to be not very hard on the hairline as my hair has thinned quite a lot, it got so bad to me that I actually started nizoral and minoxidil

Other than that I'm mainly looking for strength and size increase. It doesn't need to be a huge game in a short time I'm used to it taking a long time too gain strength and size so any moderate increase will be significant too me

**Oki-Des** · 09-05-2015, 03:31 PM

The safest first cycle will not be oral. Please read Austinites thread called Planning and Executing a first successful cycle. It will lay out everything you want to know. Good luck!

**TheTaxMan** · 09-05-2015, 03:41 PM

Deca is great for joint pain

But for a first cycle you should only be using 1 compound and that would be testosterone

Do you have any stats? Training history Height, weight, age, bodyfat%?

**Bio-Active** · 09-05-2015, 03:45 PM

Read the sticky planning and executing my first successful cycle. There is tons of great info right there. Welcome to the board and really think about the risks involved cycling at your age

**NACH3** · 09-05-2015, 03:49 PM

My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

***Cycles going wrong for the young***

^^^ this is a compilation of kids cycling while too young - still ongoing cases! Please check out!

The young and Steroids

**Josh7000** · 09-05-2015, 04:15 PM

5 ft 9, about 85kg at the moment, 20 years old, I don't really know my bodyfat I've been struggling to figure it out. all I know is it's normally higher than what people think so I'm gonna guess somewhere around 20. Can you get oral testosterone ?

**Josh7000** · 09-05-2015, 04:16 PM

Sounds silly but for 20 I look more around 30 ( wondering if from unexplained health problems ) But I developed very early so I'm not like a normal 20 year old at all so I almost don't even class myself as my age

**Josh7000** · 09-05-2015, 04:17 PM

what where?

**TheTaxMan** · 09-05-2015, 04:19 PM

Just because your face may look 30 doesnt mean your insides have developed, theres too much potential risk cycling at such a young age, diet and train hard and ask again at 25 years old

**Josh7000** · 09-05-2015, 04:25 PM

I think in general everything has aged that way, certainly feels like it lol

**TheTaxMan** · 09-05-2015, 04:34 PM

What do you mean by that? How do you know?

I know recieving advice on not to cycle is not what you want to hear, and is probably annoying. But the advice given here isnt to piss people off, its to help people to avoid fuking themselves up for good.

For example, cycling too young/early could mean depending on cialis for the rest of your life.

Safe and sensible use is promoted here

**NACH3** · 09-05-2015, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Josh7000

I think in general everything has aged that way, certainly feels like it lol

You'd need to get scanned to see if your Epiphyseal plates have sealed - and then that still does not mean that your Endocrine system has fully matured - I'm damn near positive it hasn't at 20! You even may be done growing in height but certainly not width!

And if your looking for oral test lol - you ain't even ready to pin! Which is a good thing ATM - take this time(especially being 20%) you need to lower your bf b/c of armatization - your rate will be much higher than one at sub 14% - which in turn will yield more side effects!

You've got a lot to learn and think about - don't take it wrongly - we're just trying to help!

**Josh7000** · 09-05-2015, 04:45 PM

you might think this sounds strange but I think I'm already ****ed up. Whatever this health problem is has given me a boat load of symptoms. A proper cycle might actually be what I need to get back on track if I pulled it off properly. But no I can't know for 100% But just about everything on me looks older, the way my hair is, how my beard grows, what my body looks like, my bodyhair, the way I get joint pains etc

**Josh7000** · 09-05-2015, 04:46 PM

I finished growing in height when I was around 12, getting my bodyfat lower seems extremely hard I think I may be insulin resistant

**NACH3** · 09-05-2015, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Josh7000

you might think this sounds strange but I think I'm already ****ed up. Whatever this health problem is has given me a boat load of symptoms. A proper cycle might actually be what I need to get back on track if I pulled it off properly. [B]But no I can't know for 100% But just about everything on me looks older, the way my hair is, how my beard grows, what my body looks like, my bodyhair, the way I get joint pains etc

[/B]

In bold - it doesn't work that way! And body hair that is irrelevant

Figure out the problem if there is one - no one is going to tell you that cycling at your age is safe(it's not) period!

And no cycle is proper at 20% bf - and 20 yrs old - get your diet and training on point - that's obviously where the problem lies

**ghettoboyd** · 09-05-2015, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Josh7000

you might think this sounds strange but I think I'm already ****ed up. Whatever this health problem is has given me a boat load of symptoms. A proper cycle might actually be what I need to get back on track if I pulled it off properly. But no I can't know for 100% But just about everything on me looks older, the way my hair is, how my beard grows, what my body looks like, my bodyhair, the way I get joint pains etc

please listen to the already solid advise already given to you...a cycle now will only mask and further enhance any "problems" you may have and in turn will most definitely make them worse...you need to see a doctor, have some blood work done and fine any problems/issues you have and have an actual dr let you know how to try to remedy them...its not what you want to here but its what you need to here...nobody is trying to hold you back except from possibly making the worst mistake of you life and relying on drs to help you feel normal for the rest of you life through trt...good luck...

**Josh7000** · 09-05-2015, 05:31 PM

Alright, how come it would make them worse. It may potentially help the problem couldn't it how would we know?

**Oki-Des** · 09-05-2015, 06:27 PM

Josh, his point is exactly what you are saying "how could we know?" You are right, we dont know. But, taking something that potentially could make you better or could make your worse is not how we operate. Maybe taking out your kidney would make you better, but taking your kidney out without knowing anything else would be crazy. Right?
Taking AAS in hopes of fixing something that none of know what it is, is also crazy. That is why you should go to a doctor and at the very least get blood work done to see what might be the problem; or if steroids might help. Then you can make that decision. Good luck.

**Josh7000** · 09-05-2015, 06:37 PM

Thanks for the advice, I've been going to doctors for a while to try and figure out what's wrong, had blood work. been to specialists etc but nothing comes up

**Oki-Des** · 09-05-2015, 08:03 PM

Listen, what you are saying totally sucks and I feel for you. I also know that taking steroids seems like a viable option. But, when people on here try to steer the young away from steroids it has nothing to do with your feelings of age. It has to do with your HPTA. Even if you feel older, this is not what we are talking about. If taking steroids at a young is not a good idea for a completely healthy younger man, it does not seem like a good idea for someone who is experiencing some health problems on the side.
It is easy for me to tell you not to do it, because I did them when I was your age. The difference is that it was before the internet and I did not have anyone giving me proper advice. I screwed myself up for life. I have had ED problems; which was not fun when I was young, and hell, we did not even have Viagra back then. But even now, it costs $40 per pill. Yes they sell generic stuff for much cheaper and I have to take 9 of them to equal 1/2 of a real pill. But, I get some crazy sides from them as well. But, that does not even begin to cover the costs of TRT.
People make the same mistakes I did 25 years ago, every single day on here. For some reason humans find it difficult to learn from others mistakes. We all seem to have to make them ourselves to understand. I do hope you figure out whats wrong, and even though waiting a few years seems like a lifetime away, it will be here soon enough. I always like the saying, "Man has a million wants, until they are sick, then they only have one." Be smart, and in this case, try to learn from some of our mistakes.

**TheTaxMan** · 09-06-2015, 01:38 AM

Great post ^

**Josh7000** · 09-06-2015, 03:41 AM

Thanks for taking the time too warn me, what happend?

**Josh7000** · 09-06-2015, 05:19 AM

I've also read the stunted growth thing is a myth and there's no evidence too back this up

**marcus300** · 09-06-2015, 07:04 AM

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus