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Thread: A Young Man and His First Cycle

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    LuckySOB is offline New Member
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    A Young Man and His First Cycle

    Hello:
    Firstly: I'm new to this forum, and would firstly just like to say I'm glad to be here and appreciate all advice and experience ahead of time. I by no means am an expert on anything AAS, and therefor highly appreciate the accumulation of knowledge from a forum like this.

    Stats: Natural, 5'11", 190 lbs (8-9%/10.5 weeks out), goal weight 175 (dehydrated morning weight the day of the show), Lifts: Flat BB Bench: 225x14, 275x5-6 (after), Squat: 315x14, 365x5 (after). I don't deadlift as I orient my lifts much more around aesthetic, and train in correlation with my goal of doing physique and eventually classic physique.

    Question: I spent approximately 4 hours last night (couldn't sleep) reading over forum after forum post, and kept seeing very similar advice. "Do not take steroids in your teens or early twenties." However, I'm going to be asking the age old question of "Can I start at the age of 20." I would appreciate if you'd hear me out however before jumping to conclusions or flaming me for even asking.

    Background: As stated above, I'm currently in a prep for a natural show. I'm about 10.5 weeks out and am weighing in at 189.4 lbs to be exact. I have counted macros consistently for years now, as my first competition I competed at the age of barely 17. I have what I would consider an expansive knowledge of training in relation to muscle hypertrophy and frequently watch/read articles from the industries leading "Gurus" such as George Farah and Hany Rambod. At the age of 16 (a week before my seventeenth birthday) I had been powerlifting for about a year and pulled 495 (sumo), pause benched 315, and squatted 405 for 5 (ass to grass). I was then convinced by an older gentleman to compete in a bodybuilding show because I had a good foundation and he though I could do well for my age. 3 months later and a massive drop in weight (210-172 morning of the show) I came in flat, deprived, and won the teen (4 total competitors, I was the second youngest) but was deservedly destroyed in the open. Flash forward almost 3 years and I'm looking to compete at only three pounds heavier but an absurd amount fuller, more symmetrical, and more educated. I'm doing my own prep (carb cycling 2 low one high currently) and would consider myself far more educated then the average reckless teen. I will also be giving myself 2 weeks (3-4 days off of training) off after my show (low protein, medium fats, high healthy and organic carbs) in attempts of helping my body regulate itself post show and pre first cycle.

    Proposal:
    Note: Understand that unless you have a science backed or personal experience based opinion, I would appreciate if you kept broscience/flaming/hatred to yourself. That will not dissuade me.
    I have done research (and plan to continue to put in tens of more hours of research before following through with this plan) and have come to the conclusion that the best cycle for me to start off with will be a 500mg of test e (tues/fri split) while also taking aromasin at 12.5mg every other day for. I intend to come off (or attempt to) for 3 months post cycle, and therefor will be running an hcg for the last 4 weeks of the cycle. My reason for doing this rather than trt is that I'm 20 and would like to see how my body handles a cycle and what my test levels do post cycle and also to see how prone I am to side effects. My PCT I was looking into consisted of nolvadex and clomid, but admittedly I am not definite in the dosage for these.

    Diet/Training On Cycle:
    I will be starting with 4000 calories and be raising that intake biweekly by 250 calories. I will also be progressively increasing my cardio training (starting at 15m 3 times a week of LISS and ending with 30 minutes 3 times a week LISS). The macro split I intend to pursue is 20% of calories from fat, a protein of approximately 1.3-1.5g per lb of body weight, and fill in the remaining calories with carbs.
    Progression:
    w1: 4k cals, 89f, 570c, 230p (weight low 180s, 7-8% weeks post show) (15m LISSx3/w)
    w2-11: Steady increase of calories and cardio throughout
    w12: 5250 cals, 117f, 770c, 280p (weight around 210-215lbs) (30m LISSx3/w)
    Training: (I don't want to include the entire routine here, though if somebody would like to see it I can include the entire pre planned routine later. Note: I'm very back/quad dominant and am training for aesthetics and proportions, not just pure mass everywhere. I also will do throw in a brief core/calves routine once a week on a day I don't do cardio, and will be alternating between shoulder and arm feeder workouts at night)
    Ex of Split: 1-Push, 2-Pull, 3-Arms, 4-Lower, 5- Upper, 6-Arms, 7-Off. (no direct arm training on push/pull/upper days)
    Ex of workout: Push
    Incline Barbell Bench: 5 sets Pyramided in Weight (minimum of 4 reps)
    Decline Dumbbell Bench: 5 sets of 12
    Weighted Chest Dips: 5 sets of 15
    Flat Dumbbell Flyes: 4 sets of 15
    Standing Lateral Raises: 5 sets of 12
    Machine Lateral Raises: 4 sets of 15
    Wide Upright Bar Rows supersetted with Alternate Front Raises: 4 sets of 15/12 ea

    One Last Note:
    Before we get the influx of trolls regarding my age, inexperience, and the lack of development in somebody my age both mental and physical I would like to simply say this: I am young in relation to others who have taken, yes. I am inexperienced, yes. I however am not some ignorant child who is taking to get big. My goal with this is to consistently grow and become increasingly more knowledgable as to the drug aspect of the industry. I intend to keep elevating my physique with the goal of reaching ifbb pro status. I love this sport, and consider it my largest passion by far. I understand the ramifications of my actions (or as much as one can prior to actually taking that step). I can live with trt for the rest of my life if that's what it takes (if my hcg and pct are unable to spike my natural testosterone levels ) and understand that is part of the risk. Sorry for this being so long, but I wanted to include as much information as possible to help gain the most well advised information. I know I'll be hearing an almost unanimous "Don't do it" but look forward to seeing the advice, and experiences of others.
    Last edited by LuckySOB; 08-04-2016 at 01:47 PM.

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    LuckySOB is offline New Member
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    Side Note, I will be receiving blood work very soon to check my natural levels. I intend to get blood work done possibly towards the end of my cycle, and most definitely post cycle as well. I want to do this as intelligently as possible while understanding how my body reacts to the best of my ability.

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    Slogen is offline New Member
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    you seem to be very knowledgeable hopefully i can learn a thing or two from you mate, but good luck the experts on the site are extreemley friendly and will guide you in the right direction.

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    LuckySOB is offline New Member
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    Thanks man! Admittedly I'm knowledgeable in terms of both nutrition and training but have light years worth of research to do in terms of AAS and the other PEDs. However I hope I can use this thread as a way to constantly check in, show what I've learned, and help others while obtaining knowledge and first hand experience myself.
    Slogen likes this.

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    Rossf is offline New Member
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    Hey dude. I'm your age, and although I'm interested in reading the responses you get, I don't think many of them will help you with/advocate the use of AAS at our age.

    You clearly have done your research, and much like myself probably know how to execute a proper cycle and PCT better than a lot of older guys that end up doing it and coming out of it fine. The problem isn't necessarily with responsibility or knowledge in young guys (at least not wholly), but rather the fact that our HTP has a lower chance of recovering when we use before our endocrine system has fully developed.

    Like you, I would be willing to take the risk of needing TRT for the rest of my life and acknowledge that at some point I actually would want it, albeit not in my early 20s ideally. However the idea of possibly not being able to have kids is a scary one, and although I have no desire to have children right now, I am aware that I may not always feel that way.

    That being said, if you do decide to do it, I would recommend running HCG throughout the cycle and not just the last 4 weeks. Also arimidex as an AI during the cycle. Have a read of Austinite's My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle.

    At the end of the day, you have to pursue what you are passionate about, all anybody here can do is inform you of the risks involved(which in this case are real), after that you are an adult and I wish you the best of luck.
    Last edited by Rossf; 08-05-2016 at 02:11 AM.

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    Rossf is offline New Member
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    I'd add that at the moment I'm giving some of the milder sarms a try, starting with cardarine (which I understand isn't actually a sarm lol) .. if all goes well I will try Ostarine and run a PCT which will give me experience with using nolva/clomid. If all goes well down the line I may try other sarms which are slightly more suppressive.. then I feel I will be ready for actual AAS use. Many will say I am too young to even be messing with sarms and I don't necessarily disagree. Just comes down to risk/reward (and at our age a little bit of immature impatience if we are honest )

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    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    Shows us a pic to see your genetic potential.

    Unless you can actually make money off fitness/bodybuilding its completely stupid to use steroids , even more stupid to use sarms .

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    Rossf is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Shows us a pic to see your genetic potential.

    Unless you can actually make money off fitness/bodybuilding its completely stupid to use steroids, even more stupid to use sarms.
    Would you mind very briefly explaining the last point? Thanks.

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    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossf View Post
    Would you mind very briefly explaining the last point? Thanks.
    The risk outweights the rewards.

    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...%2A%2A%2A.html

    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-steroids.html

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    Rossf is offline New Member
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    Thanks. I understand this with highly suppressive/shut down effects of AAS, but does the same apply to mild sarms like Ostarine? If so I will stay away for a few years.

    Also thanks for the links look forward to getting through them!

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    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossf View Post
    Thanks. I understand this with highly suppressive/shut down effects of AAS, but does the same apply to mild sarms like Ostarine? If so I will stay away for a few years.

    Also thanks for the links look forward to getting through them!
    Unfortunately SARMs like ost will shut down your HPTA fairly quickly and require a PCT just like when taking AAS.

    It's really not worth the risk to your health at this point in time.

    I was in your same place at 20 and the members of this forum convinced me to hold off until I was in my late 20s.

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    Rossf is offline New Member
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    I see, I have cardarine on hand anyway and was half-thinking of stacking it with a sarm like osta, but I will hold off with the osta. Damn the wait is difficult haha, particularly when you've been in love with the game from 15! Thanks numbere.

    Also, as I'm getting through the list of "horror stories" in the thread that was linked above, none the young guys used a test base or PCT at all.
    Last edited by Rossf; 08-05-2016 at 05:52 AM.

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    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossf View Post
    I see, I have cardarine on hand anyway and was half-thinking of stacking it with a sarm like osta, but I will hold off with the osta. Damn the wait is difficult haha, particularly when you've been in love with the game from 15! Thanks numbere.

    Also, as I'm getting through the list of "horror stories" in the thread that was linked above, none the young guys used a test base or PCT at all.
    You should do some more research on cardarine before using.

    GSK dropped research funding for cardarine because they found the increased risk of cancer was too high.

    Cardarine is only worth using if you're a top tier athlete and you're comfortable with the likelihood of cancer.

    In my short time on this forum many young adults have had sexual issues and HPTA reset issues after using only test and a sufficient PCT.

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    Rossf is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    You should do some more research on cardarine before using.

    GSK dropped research funding for cardarine because they found the increased risk of cancer was too high.

    Cardarine is only worth using if you're a top tier athlete and you're comfortable with the likelihood of cancer.

    In my short time on this forum many young adults have had sexual issues and HPTA reset issues after using only test and a sufficient PCT.
    Thanks for your help, I will certainly look into this. I need to get bloods done anyway as an Eating Disorder when i was a young teen crashed my libido/mood/energy etc so before anything I will monitor that. I hope the OP also finds your replies to me useful.

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    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossf View Post
    Thanks. I understand this with highly suppressive/shut down effects of AAS, but does the same apply to mild sarms like Ostarine? If so I will stay away for a few years.

    Also thanks for the links look forward to getting through them!
    Unbiased ostarine reviews:

    http://forums.steroid.com/sarms-sele...-detailed.html

    http://forums.steroid.com/sarms-sele...k-results.html

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    Rossf is offline New Member
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    very telling, thank you!

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    LuckySOB is offline New Member
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    I first would like to say thank you to all of the advice that I've seen in response to my question so far, and then would like to ask: if any of you have first hand experience taking when in your late teens/20s, I would love to hear how it went. Often times I hear about the potential risks to your HPTA and the inability to have children (and ignorant as it may seem to say I have never wanted kids). However, I would love to hear somebodies personal experiences with it, and will most definitely check out the above forum on a successful first cycle. Thanks!

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    LuckySOB is offline New Member
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    I'll gladly post pictures as I get closer to show day, that way I'm able to give a better idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckySOB View Post
    ignorant as it may seem to say I have never wanted kids
    Don't throw away your chance to have kids... You are very well thought out, and it seems dedicated as well, clearly you're in better shape than many on this board, I am 36 and we have similar stats, although based on your lifts your a bit stronger than me. I waited until I had 2 kids and a vasectomy to run my first cycle. My best advise (that I think you are bright enough to follow) is to wait 1 year and re-evaluate then. Anxious to see your pics...

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    LuckySOB is offline New Member
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    Admittedly, my stance on children may change as I grow in age, but in the foreseeable future I am far more goal and career (in this industry) oriented then family. If the time comes where I want children, I'll face that obstacle.
    Last edited by LuckySOB; 08-05-2016 at 03:21 PM.

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    LuckySOB is offline New Member
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    The thing is, I come to you now as somebody who wanted to take at 18, reevaluated that decision and waiting till 19. Then I reevaluated again and am turning 20 soon. I've been putting off the decision due to a lack of overall knowledge in both drug use, muscle hypertrophy, and nutrition. The last 4 years of training (and several years as a young teen for football) have allowed me to accumulate most of that knowledge that I would need, and to a very high degree. It's more the pursuit of a higher goal (pro level competitor) that pushes me to make this step as opposed to just jumping into something for the hell of it. Also, I understand testicular atrophy and the inability to produce natural levels of testosterone , but couldn't an individual medically extract their semen if they honestly wanted to have kids that badly? I'd use examples of prominent bodybuilders who have had children post cycle, but would be doing you guys an injustice in attempting to justify the obvious risks with somebody who could potentially be an outlier.

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    LuckySOB is offline New Member
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    Screw it, I don't have any pics from very recently, but here's a few pictures taken over the course of the last few months. They're at varying bodyfats, and poses. I don't have one of my legs on hand, but you'll have to go on a limb and trust that they're not deficient... I cropped the pictures to not allow my face or too much of my surrounding in them as I'm trying to keep this low key. A Young Man and His First Cycle-1.jpgA Young Man and His First Cycle-2.jpgA Young Man and His First Cycle-3.jpg

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    InternalFire is offline Anabolic Member
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    you do look like you lift, and damn you're young, believe people who say dont do it, most folks start at what you have and they fall under what you had before you started after you come off of gear, mostly because of the damage cycle causes to your endocrine system and your body can no longer progress naturally as you did before you started, so in other words once you enter this realm, youre here to stay to play the game, you come off, and you can almost certainly forget about the good well being and keeping them gains. Its huge risk, too huge.

    You've so much potential and it will be sad for it to go over a cliff. Alot of us struggle to get where you are with or without TRT, you should cherish what you have , but its your life, your consequences to bare, hope you make right decision

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    LuckySOB is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle View Post
    you do look like you lift, and damn you're young, believe people who say dont do it, most folks start at what you have and they fall under what you had before you started after you come off of gear, mostly because of the damage cycle causes to your endocrine system and your body can no longer progress naturally as you did before you started, so in other words once you enter this realm, youre here to stay to play the game, you come off, and you can almost certainly forget about the good well being and keeping them gains. Its huge risk, too huge.

    You've so much potential and it will be sad for it to go over a cliff. Alot of us struggle to get where you are with or without TRT, you should cherish what you have , but its your life, your consequences to bare, hope you make right decision
    I appreciate your input, but am looking for more first hand experiences at young ages. I do understand the risk of TRT and the possibility of regressing should I come off. However as you said, I'm here to play the game. I'm afraid of the risks as any sane individual should be, but find that the potential far outweighs the risk. It's the idea that the possibilities outweigh the fear of the repercussions if that makes sense. As is, I train 1 1/2-2 hrs a day, track macros, take supplements (creatine, bcaa, l glutamine, fish oil, etc). I'm past the fad where you drink whey and eat lots of food to get jacked. I know that's not the reality. For me, I want to see exactly how far I can take this, and I feel that this step is the only way to see the full extent of my potential.

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