PIP Management

[KurtMiles]

All,

A little background for you. I just began my first cycle, pinning test E every 3.5 days at 250mg/ml. I started about 3-4 weeks ago.

My first 3 pins in the right glute could not have been more smooth. No PIP, no nothing.

4th pin in the right glute produced a wicked red, hard, hot area, with pretty bad discomfort. Slight fever, thought it was an infection, went to the doctor, that's cleared up now. I pinned that morning, then did legs a few hours later. The PIP began after my training.

5th pin in the left delt everything was smooth for two days, until I worked shoulders. Same thinng as the 4th pin, though not quite as severe. It's pretty much clearing up now.

My pin yesterday in the left glute is a bit sore, but I think that's more from an unsteady, novice hand than anything else. Currently no redness or swelling.

With all that said, I am now scared shitless to work a muscle after I pin it. I am making slight modifications to my pinning procedure to try to nail down the issue. I did not massage my left glute yesterday, I noticed some folks said massaging the area made their PIP worse. I'm also aware that this is all virgin muscle, and my have is not as steady as those who have done this a lot.

I have been using warm compresses and hot soaks to try and help. From what I have read it sounds like I may be absorbing the oil much faster than the hormone. I do not think that first incident was an infection now, as it has happened again and I'm certain I have a clean, hygienic procedure.

Any ideas from the community? I'm trying a few things to try to isolate the issue as much as possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[numbere]

The only technique I've tried that helped was to run the filled syringe under some warn tap water before pinning.

They did a massive comprehensive study that showed a positive correlation between amount of pip you get and the size of your vagina.

[Vash the Stampede]

The only technique I've tried that helped was to run the filled syringe under some warn tap water before pinning.

They did a massive comprehensive study that showed a positive correlation between amount of pip you get and the size of your vagina.

Hahahaha! BAZINGA!

[The Deadlifting Dog]

You shouldn't be injecting the same spot more than once a week.
I wait two weeks before injecting the same area.

[KurtMiles]

I've seen people on the forum talk about warming the gear up, I've also seen some talk about cutting their gear with sterile oil or whatever. Believe me I feel like a vag putting this on here, but damn dude my ass was so sure the last time I couldn't sit down right for a week! I'm petrified to pin my quad until I figure this out!

[ScotchGuard02]

PIP is a weird thing. I can pin for 8 weeks just fine and then I'll get PIP. It's just one of those things. Find a new spot and PIP the crap out of it. LOL Just kidding bro. Rotate your sites. Bigger muscles tend to hurt less.

[Vash the Stampede]

I always say hit the calves first. Everyone knows that they are the least painful. Lol

[Mr.BB]

I've seen people on the forum talk about warming the gear up, I've also seen some talk about cutting their gear with sterile oil or whatever. Believe me I feel like a vag putting this on here, but damn dude my ass was so sure the last time I couldn't sit down right for a week! I'm petrified to pin my quad until I figure this out!

If you couldnt sit you are pinning in the wrong spot. You should be pinning in the gluteus medius, which is more on the hip than on the ass.

[Vincentino]

All,

A little background for you. I just began my first cycle, pinning test E every 3.5 days at 250mg/ml. I started about 3-4 weeks ago.

My first 3 pins in the right glute could not have been more smooth. No PIP, no nothing.

4th pin in the right glute produced a wicked red, hard, hot area, with pretty bad discomfort. Slight fever, thought it was an infection, went to the doctor, that's cleared up now. I pinned that morning, then did legs a few hours later. The PIP began after my training.

5th pin in the left delt everything was smooth for two days, until I worked shoulders. Same thinng as the 4th pin, though not quite as severe. It's pretty much clearing up now.

My pin yesterday in the left glute is a bit sore, but I think that's more from an unsteady, novice hand than anything else. Currently no redness or swelling.

With all that said, I am now scared shitless to work a muscle after I pin it. I am making slight modifications to my pinning procedure to try to nail down the issue. I did not massage my left glute yesterday, I noticed some folks said massaging the area made their PIP worse. I'm also aware that this is all virgin muscle, and my have is not as steady as those who have done this a lot.

I have been using warm compresses and hot soaks to try and help. From what I have read it sounds like I may be absorbing the oil much faster than the hormone. I do not think that first incident was an infection now, as it has happened again and I'm certain I have a clean, hygienic procedure.

Any ideas from the community? I'm trying a few things to try to isolate the issue as much as possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

DO NOT heat your syringe up under water. Idk where people get off on telling people this shit. Bacteria from the faucet and from the water itself can contaminate your syringe if you run it directly under water.
If you plan on heating your gear, place the vial in hot water and let it sit for a few minutes, remove the vial and shake it gently (not vigorously, as this will cause air bubbles to form in the oil and will take time to dissipate), and then pull into your syringe.

As far as the massaging goes, from what I've seen its all personal preference. I massage the injection site immediately after with a warm rag for 30sec to 1min, depending on the injection site.

Also, as BB said, if you're having THAT much pain, chances are you're much too low on the glute.

[numbere]

DO NOT heat your syringe up under water. Idk where people get off on telling people this shit. Bacteria from the faucet and from the water itself can contaminate your syringe if you run it directly under water.

Please enlighten me as to how bacteria can migrate into a capped syringe when warm water is ran over the barrel for 45 seconds?

[Vincentino]

Please enlighten me as to how bacteria can migrate into a capped syringe when warm water is ran over the barrel for 45 seconds?

Seriously? I mean I know you're sitting here trying to troll me, but do you not understand how micro-organisms and bacteria work? Just because you have a cap over a pin doesn't mean it's a fail-safe. He's sitting here trying to get advice, and I gave mine. Don't discount my information when it's a legitimate risk that not everyone thinks about. If you run the syringe under water, are you just assuming that there's no chance for that water to run down to where the cap meets the plastic of the barrel, and the chance for that water and the bacteria it holds to get on the metal of the pin when you remove the cap? Let's leave the egos and your post count out of this when talking about health.

[numbere]

Seriously? I mean I know you're sitting here trying to troll me, but do you not understand how micro-organisms and bacteria work? Just because you have a cap over a pin doesn't mean it's a fail-safe. He's sitting here trying to get advice, and I gave mine. Don't discount my information when it's a legitimate risk that not everyone thinks about. If you run the syringe under water, are you just assuming that there's no chance for that water to run down to where the cap meets the plastic of the barrel, and the chance for that water and the bacteria it holds to get on the metal of the pin when you remove the cap? Let's leave the egos and your post count out of this when talking about health.

Believe me buddy my ego is checked.

In not trolling you, I'm defending my original statement.

There's this force called gravity that effects everything in our universe.

So if you hold the syringe by the pin sheath and hold the syringe at a slight decline there's zero chance of contamination.

Besides the small opening at the end of the pin a syringe is a closed sanitary system.

This is how guys going on vacation, who don't want to bring all their gear, can get away with prefilling syringes days ahead of time.

[Vincentino]

Believe me buddy my ego is checked.

In not trolling you, I'm defending my original statement.

There's this force called gravity that effects everything in our universe.

So if you hold the syringe by the pin sheath and hold the syringe at a slight decline there's zero chance of contamination.

Besides the small opening at the end of the pin a syringe is a closed sanitary system.

This is how guys going on vacation, who don't want to bring all their gear, can get away with prefilling syringes days ahead of time.

If you say so then I'll take your word for it. Forgive me if I was rude, I've come into contact with a lot of jackasses on here.

I understand what you're saying, i have never prefilled a syringe before as I've always just brought all of my shit with me. Maybe I'm just nervous about infections and extra cautious since I've been a victim of mrsa before.
To each their own though, if you feel confident enough in your methods and haven't had any issues then I'm definitely in no position to say what's right or wrong, I was just speaking off of my personal experience there.

[numbere]

If you say so then I'll take your word for it. Forgive me if I was rude, I've come into contact with a lot of jackasses on here.

I understand what you're saying, i have never prefilled a syringe before as I've always just brought all of my shit with me. Maybe I'm just nervous about infections and extra cautious since I've been a victim of mrsa before.
To each their own though, if you feel confident enough in your methods and haven't had any issues then I'm definitely in no position to say what's right or wrong, I was just speaking off of my personal experience there.

It's fine buddy no hard feelings on my end.

I'm sure if I had mrsa then I'd be ocd about pinning techniques as well.

Yeah there are a few jackasses here but much less than other forums.

Just one more reason for you to stick around and grow with everyone else.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but would like to add that placing a syringe in a water bath is not a good idea as it will definitely increase the risk of infection.

As you previously stated, only vials or amps should be placed in warm water baths.

[Cuz]

I placed my vials on stove top with warm water. Helped draw it up easy and helped pip also

[bobbypump]

This is how guys going on vacation, who don't want to bring all their gear, can get away with prefilling syringes days ahead of time.

Just curious.. I have been in situations where preloading would help me out, however, I was under the impression that the gear will slowly "melt" the rubber stopper. Is this just bro science?

[Mr.BB]

Just curious.. I have been in situations where preloading would help me out, however, I was under the impression that the gear will slowly "melt" the rubber stopper. Is this just bro science?

Depends if its acidic or not.

[numbere]

Just curious.. I have been in situations where preloading would help me out, however, I was under the impression that the gear will slowly "melt" the rubber stopper. Is this just bro science?

The possibility of gear melting the plunger definitely isn't brother science.

The problem comes form UGLs using EO (Ethyl Oleate) to reduce the amount of PIP.

EO is used as a solvent in some pharmaceuticals but also as a plasticizer in polymer molding.

If you have pharmacy grad gear I doubt you have anything to worry about when preloading syringes.

If your gear is UGL then I would do a test syringe several days before your trip.

If the plunger doesn't begin to dissolve within the first 10-15 minutes than your gear is likely EO free.

I've experienced this first hand, my thread is attached below.

test p melting nipro syringe plunger

[hammerheart]

Well I tested with UGL oil with EO base and after months the plunger rubber was intact.

[numbere]

Well I tested with UGL oil with EO base and after months the plunger rubber was intact.

That's good news. All the more reason to test before a trip.

I'm not a brewer but I'm sure it has something to do with the amount of EO used for solution.

Common sense can't be applied to all situations but if EO dissolves plungers and your plunger didn't dissolve then it makes sense that the concentration of EO wasn't high enough.

It's also possible that the EO used in my gear wasn't pharmaceutical grade.

[Mr.BB]

Based on our members experiences there is a 50% chance of the rubber in syringe to be degraded.

[KurtMiles]

I ordered my sterile oil to help with this, I will keep everyone posted as to the outcome. I pinned yesterday in the delt and a few hours later worked shoulders, and so far its been fine. However, the worst symptoms have generally shown up 3-4 days after the pin. I pinned my quad 5 days ago and the PIP has been pretty enormous. When I pin on Thursday I am going to cut it 50/50 with grapeseed oil and see what that does. It seems like that has typically been a solid solution for most of the members on here in similar situations.

My best guess, based on my symptoms, these forums, and talks with other juiced up gorillas is that the hormone is not absorbing as fast as the oil it is mixed with. Therefore, adding oil may help tremendously. While this could be a gang of bro science, I'm willing to give it a try. I want to enjoy this cycle and the gains that may come with, not be a PIP'ed up miserable train wreck the whole time.

The only other explanation may be my body just doesn't agree with the BA/BB level of the gear. A friend is using the exact same gear ordered at the same time and not having any problems, but he is more gear-experienced and everyone is made different. We will figure this out, it's just gonna take a lot of soreness and discomfort to make it happen. I say eff it, life is defined by pain and struggle. If it ain't painful, I won't learn. I have figured that out about myself lol

[Mr.BB]

Test E?

You should bin those vials, and buy different better brand.

[ScotchGuard02]

Just curious.. I have been in situations where preloading would help me out, however, I was under the impression that the gear will slowly "melt" the rubber stopper. Is this just bro science?

Ethyl Oleate will tend to melt the rubber plundger in the syringe. EO's primarily used in "painless" formulation, mostly in short esters.

[XFit4Real]

Kurt

I used to get the same thing you describing ,,,,,you need to allow time muscle to absorb the oil slowly the slower the better ,,,try getting someone to inject real slow like 2 min per ml ,,,your pip wont be so bad onwards,,,,u might find injecting faster causes more pip ,,,time is everything be patient and slow it down

[DocToxin8]

How to avoid PIP;
1) only use gear with super high concentrations
2) only use UGL gear
3) only inject into the smallest muscles, except for calf and pecs
4) always train the muscle you inject the same day, with lots of reps to achieve maximum pump
5) always use the biggest needle you can find, so that you can inject the oil as fast as possible, maximum 5 seconds should be the goal.

Once you've tried this, and then go back to Pharma grade gear and pretty much do the opposite of this list,
You'll never complain about PIP again.

[krugerr]

If you plan on heating your gear, place the vial in hot water and let it sit for a few minutes, remove the vial and shake it gently (not vigorously, as this will cause air bubbles to form in the oil and will take time to dissipate), and then pull into your syringe.

As an ex-engineer, I speak with some experience/knowledge.

In order for you to adjust the viscosity of the gear, you'd have to get the oil much hotter than the water from your tap.
Also note that the volume of oil means that I will not hold the heat for long. After this, you draw it through a cold needle and into a cold syringe, where it stays for 30-60 seconds.

I promise you, the oil has returned to room temperature long before you inject it. Any possible "change" in PIP or injection ease is purely placebo.

You also note that shaking too much will put air bubbles into the oil. Most people here, and in fact your average doctor will believe that injecting any air will kill you. This is a myth. You can inject air directly into a muscle without any worry, and I have read that injecting small amounts of air IV is relatively safe. I stress though, that this I am not recommending you go injecting CC's of air. Just trying to point out that bubbles in the oil, or a small amount of air at the end of a syringe will not cause you any harm.

Just some friendly feedback on those points!

-Krugerr

[KurtMiles]

I am happy to report on this thread that cutting your gear with grape seed oil makes a world of difference. My last three injections have all been cut and I don't even know I've done an injection. 100% turn around.

[TRA]

I am happy to report on this thread that cutting your gear with grape seed oil makes a world of difference. My last three injections have all been cut and I don't even know I've done an injection. 100% turn around.

Hopefully the grape seed oil contained some gear...

[TRA]

As an ex-engineer, I speak with some experience/knowledge.

In order for you to adjust the viscosity of the gear, you'd have to get the oil much hotter than the water from your tap.
Also note that the volume of oil means that I will not hold the heat for long. After this, you draw it through a cold needle and into a cold syringe, where it stays for 30-60 seconds.

I promise you, the oil has returned to room temperature long before you inject it. Any possible "change" in PIP or injection ease is purely placebo.

You also note that shaking too much will put air bubbles into the oil. Most people here, and in fact your average doctor will believe that injecting any air will kill you. This is a myth. You can inject air directly into a muscle without any worry, and I have read that injecting small amounts of air IV is relatively safe. I stress though, that this I am not recommending you go injecting CC's of air. Just trying to point out that bubbles in the oil, or a small amount of air at the end of a syringe will not cause you any harm.

Just some friendly feedback on those points!

-Krugerr

Are we talking heat convection or conductivity here?