Cycle coming up - input appreciated

Hi,

I am currently 181lb at 12% body fat. I am trying to squeeze down to 8-9% before I start this new cycle to use my newfound knowledge around nutrient partitioning. Body fat is coming down pretty steadily so should not be more than a few weeks before I hit my goal, at the most.

I am currently on:
HGH 1.8IU ed
Test-E 200mg/wk
HCG 500IU/wk
Aromasin 25mg eod

I am currently in two minds about running Anavar or Masteron in combination Test-P or maybe all three? Would seem like a waste to run all three but I am sure someone else knows a lot better.

Idea:
Test-P 500mg/wk
Masteron 500mg/wk

or
Test-P 500mg/wk
Anavar 100mg ed

or
Test-P 500mg/wk
Masteron 500mg/wk
Anavar 100mg ed

The last idea seems like overkill but not used Masteron before so need advice.

TIA
~t

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tarmyg

Hi,

I am currently 181lb at 12% body fat. I am trying to squeeze down to 8-9% before I start this new cycle to use my newfound knowledge around nutrient partitioning. Body fat is coming down pretty steadily so should not be more than a few weeks before I hit my goal, at the most.

I am currently on:
HGH 1.8IU ed
Test-E 200mg/wk
HCG 500IU/wk
Aromasin 25mg eod

I am currently in two minds about running Anavar or Masteron in combination Test-P or maybe all three? Would seem like a waste to run all three but I am sure someone else knows a lot better.

Idea:
Test-P 500mg/wk
Masteron 500mg/wk

or
Test-P 500mg/wk
Anavar 100mg ed

or
Test-P 500mg/wk
Masteron 500mg/wk
Anavar 100mg ed

The last idea seems like overkill but not used Masteron before so need advice.

TIA
~t

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How long do you plan on running this, T? What bf% will you be starting at(single digits)?? And what is your end goal(bf, look, etc? Are you going for anymore size? If so 500-600 prop is a great dose for some extra size while cutting imo...

TBH - I like your last cycle choice(especially if you don't care about your hair);) lol

Prop 5-600mgs/wk

Mast - I personally think mast shines between 4-600mgs/wkly

Var - you could start w/60mgs and go up to 80-100(if not pharma) if pharma you'll only need 50-60mgs/daily! And run it for 10wks.

Ever think of backloading winny? It's shredded me up & makes me strong as fuk too... but then again it takes a toll on the joints... but I'd think var for 10wks(and I'm thinking where you are you'll be able to source out RX var) and minus the joint issues and you'll get crazy pumps w/RX var... only if it's not RX would I run it 80-100mgs/day...

Edit - how's the GH treating you? Have you been on for 6months plus at that low dose? I'd think of ramping it up to 3-4ius/daily if possible?? Then go back on 1.8-2iu over long periods of time I think it's best at low doses...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NACH3

How long do you plan on running this, T? What bf% will you be starting at(single digits)?? And what is your end goal(bf, look, etc? Are you going for anymore size? If so 500-600 prop is a great dose for some extra size while cutting imo...

TBH - I like your last cycle choice(especially if you don't care about your hair);) lol

Prop 5-600mgs/wk

Mast - I personally think mast shines between 4-600mgs/wkly

Var - you could start w/60mgs and go up to 80-100(if not pharma) if pharma you'll only need 50-60mgs/daily! And run it for 10wks.

Ever think of backloading winny? It's shredded me up & makes me strong as fuk too... but then again it takes a toll on the joints... but I'd think var for 10wks(and I'm thinking where you are you'll be able to source out RX var) and minus the joint issues and you'll get crazy pumps w/RX var... only if it's not RX would I run it 80-100mgs/day...

Edit - how's the GH treating you? Have you been on for 6months plus at that low dose? I'd think of ramping it up to 3-4ius/daily if possible?? Then go back on 1.8-2iu over long periods of time I think it's best at low doses...

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I'll start once I am confirmed I am at 8-9% body fat. Want to get the most out of the Mast.

Is the hair loss a concern even if I am not prone to it at all?

Not thought about the Winny, not much experience with it. I can pick it up but Pharma but it comes in 2mg pills so you have to eat a ridiculous amount of them.

Going for strength as much as possible, not overly concerned about size.

HGH has been great. Just going to stick with my 1.8IU for now. Even here the cost is fairly high on this compound.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tarmyg

I'll start once I am confirmed I am at 8-9% body fat. Want to get the most out of the Mast.

Perfect that's what I wanted to hear... I figured but wanted to be sure! I know mast is great once in the single digits...

Is the hair loss a concern even if I am not prone to it at all?

If your not prone I wouldn't worry about it at all! I ran it and still have hair ;)

Not thought about the Winny, not much experience with it. I can pick it up but Pharma but it comes in 2mg pills so you have to eat a ridiculous amount of them.

Ugh 2mg pills... if it's dose dependable and not how many pills(although I can't seeing that being good either) then great but that's 25pills @ 50mgs/day... what about injectable winny(it still passes through the liver at the same rate?! You could still backload it for another 6-8wks but I'd up my NAC to 18-2400mgs/daily

Going for strength as much as possible, not overly concerned about size.

If strength is what your after is bump the dose of prop to 600mgs/wkly, var is good for strength too but nothing like NPP... you could run prop/NPP/var or I liked backloading winny with that stack for 8wks then run mast & winny for 8wks - if your cruising after or are on TRT) I wouldn't if your PCTing... and I'd stick to your original idea w/winny or var

HGH has been great. Just going to stick with my 1.8IU for now. Even here the cost is fairly high on this compound.

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If I could I'd be running GH at 2iu/daily for life... :)

Looks like my summercycle. Looks good.

Test p is ok

Var is ok

Masteron is ok

Consider Tbol

Overkill?...No, i think we need to change up. Or the body adapt (Piana) Plis do not run Test and Var same dosages for 12 weeks.

So, go for 12 weeks with the test at 500

Masteron should be run long, so u should do Masteron for 11-12 weeks

Then do 2 weeks on and two weeks off alternation the hole cycle with var and tbol. Dont need much, moderate doses are enough. Beauty of synergi, dont have to use a lot to get the same effect.

Healthwize this run should focus on livercare. 1200-2400 mg NAC ed. Plenty of water and superclean food ofcourse. NO alcohol what so ever.

Yepp..pretty much my take.

And you know me. I would perhaps alternate the test too. Maybe start with 3 weeks on 250 to keep the sides down, yet grow like a mf cause thats what u do the first 3 weeks on that ester, no matter what

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NACH3

Prop 5-600mgs/wk

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NACH3,

Do you mean to add this on top of my existing 200mg/wk Test-E that I am running now? Seems a tad bit high :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tarmyg

NACH3,

Do you mean to add this on top of my existing 200mg/wk Test-E that I am running now? Seems a tad bit high :-)

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I'm a fan of keeping test as low as possible and let the other compounds work. Just enough test to keep your levels stable.

I'd go test tren and var myself. If your 8-9 % where do you want to be with mast?

Test 300mg wk
Tren 500 mg wk
Var 60mg per day

Nice cycle low sides.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

I'm a fan of keeping test as low as possible and let the other compounds work. Just enough test to keep your levels stable.

I'd go test tren and var myself. If your 8-9 % where do you want to be with mast?

Test 300mg wk
Tren 500 mg wk
Var 60mg per day

Nice cycle low sides.

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I can not use Tren, my body do not agree with it.

Where I want to be? Good question, not thought about it in those terms, but I am staying under 12% from now on as it is easy to do so with my current training. See no reason to go higher. I am 12% now and feel awesome.

I tried adding all three once and wasn't impressed. It seemed to me I got just as much out of var and test as I did with var, test, mast. To be honest, I started at around 12% so I might have been to fat for the mast to work. I normally run test, tren, var and love the results. A buddy talked me into the mast and I just didn't feel it added anything to the cycle that I wouldn't have gotten without it.

If you try it, let us know. After that cycle, I was always curious if I would have gotten a different result if I had waited to start the mast at a lower bf%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deal Me In

I tried adding all three once and wasn't impressed. It seemed to me I got just as much out of var and test as I did with var, test, mast. To be honest, I started at around 12% so I might have been to fat for the mast to work. I normally run test, tren, var and love the results. A buddy talked me into the mast and I just didn't feel it added anything to the cycle that I wouldn't have gotten without it.

If you try it, let us know. After that cycle, I was always curious if I would have gotten a different result if I had waited to start the mast at a lower bf%.

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I'll try it and I'll post an update.

Still not clear if I add Test-P on top of my existing Test-E dosage.

Hello TarmyG. I think Nachs recommendation was to substitute the Prop for the Enanthate. After your cycle if you intend to cruise you can then go back to the Test E at 200mg. pw.
I think you would do great adding the Mast. With you consistent low bf, good diet, and great work ethic you will shine with it. Good luck man!

If your dieting now to before the cycle and your looking at dropping down to 8-9% when your 12 ish now it sounds like your on a serious diet and to be ho9nest with you going into a cycle after a diet what has changed your metabolism isn't the best idea, you will pile on the bf a lot quicker and easier coming out of a deficit diet what has changed your Metabolic rate. I can shout this loud enough but you really need to look at priming which is a process of opening your body's growth window without altering your metabolism so when you start your cycle you will hit the ground running and reap amazing gains. This is how many top pro's lead the way going into a cycle because it spring boards you into a cycle and gains are remarkable but its a very clever process and you need to work off your own metabolism to get into this very anabolic state environment.

From the cycles you have posted I would go for the test P but drop it down to around 8 weeks, no need for any longer or you can keep it open ended and stop the cycle once growth has slowed down or stopped, this Test p needs to be on top on your regular trt dose. Then I would go with the var because you will get some results from var were with masteron you wont see many only visual ones, its an appearance drug which hardens and gives your appearance of granite muscles but if your after some tissue growth I would go with var because at least you will see a few lbs out of that one, but of course you could use both ;) depends exactly what the cycle is being used for

Awesome advice as always Marcus. I an not dieting that hard to be honest. My workouts are just kind on an insane load level at this time. Does this make a difference or I'll run into the same problem?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tarmyg

Awesome advice as always Marcus. I an not dieting that hard to be honest. My workouts are just kind on an insane load level at this time. Does this make a difference or I'll run into the same problem?

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Obviously a lower fat body will aid muscle tissue far better but and this is were a lot make a mistake dieting hard or harsh will make you lose muscle tissue, when I diet I do it very slowly and its kind of a unique method because I will not give any of my hard earned muscle tissue away, the main reason why because I went through sheer hell to get it and I build on top my muscle I don't do what more or less 90% of guys do which is go on cycle, build tissue then diet and burn all the hard earned tissue away and then go on cycle only to get were they were pre dieting! its a vicious circle what more or less everyone is in - me included until I was shown the light what pro's do but not all pro's depends what they are aiming for. Going for 12 % down to 9% will result is a metabolic shift but again this depends how your doing it and time frame but what will happen is after your got down to your 9% which by the way is great for gaining more tissue and going into a cycle but your metabolism would of altered due to the deficit and dieting so when you start a cycle and increase cals you will be in a state were you will gain bf more easier due the shift in your M rate so water retention and bf can come on quicker, but with pre cycle priming you wont alter your M rate but you will still be in the environment of growth and going out of a prime into a cycle will be better for not gaining to much water or bf if you know what your doing. Priming isn't a process of lowering your bf its a glycogens depletion down slowly without altering your M rate which opens the growth window and increases the anabolic environment, the by product of priming is lower bf though ;)
I was learnt this process what I have done for man many years by Dorians coach ( chemical coach lol) at the time who was my friend. So never under estimate the process of priming its well worth a go but there are certain guidelines to follow which is in my thread. Also remember what I said about the vicious circle what many members and people are in with dieting and bulking and think why is there only a handful of huge guys ( forget genetics for a moment) out there who look different when it doesn't come easy to them !!! ;)

Design a cycle around your needs create the right environment for you to reap the best possible gains from it and you will find the gold at the end of the rainbow ;) why do people stop gaining on cycle half way through? why do they increase the dose to only increase sides and water and NOT muscle? why do so many people lose the gains after the cycle?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tarmyg

NACH3,

Do you mean to add this on top of my existing 200mg/wk Test-E that I am running now? Seems a tad bit high :-)

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No... it would be 600 prop only wkly - but if you stay on Test e just add in 400 mgs prop on top? Or 350 which would be 100mgs(1cc) EOD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marcus300

If your dieting now to before the cycle and your looking at dropping down to 8-9% when your 12 ish now it sounds like your on a serious diet and to be ho9nest with you going into a cycle after a diet what has changed your metabolism isn't the best idea, you will pile on the bf a lot quicker and easier coming out of a deficit diet what has changed your Metabolic rate. I can shout this loud enough but you really need to look at priming which is a process of opening your body's growth window without altering your metabolism so when you start your cycle you will hit the ground running and reap amazing gains. This is how many top pro's lead the way going into a cycle because it spring boards you into a cycle and gains are remarkable but its a very clever process and you need to work off your own metabolism to get into this very anabolic state environment.

From the cycles you have posted I would go for the test P but drop it down to around 8 weeks, no need for any longer or you can keep it open ended and stop the cycle once growth has slowed down or stopped, this Test p needs to be on top on your regular trt dose. Then I would go with the var because you will get some results from var were with masteron you wont see many only visual ones, its an appearance drug which hardens and gives your appearance of granite muscles but if your after some tissue growth I would go with var because at least you will see a few lbs out of that one, but of course you could use both ;) depends exactly what the cycle is being used for

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Basically, over doing a pre-cycle prime slowly your not changing your metabolism by carb cycling - your reducing your glycogen stores at a slow the nitrogen retention and increasing protein synthesis in a muscle building environment is at a premium/or most optimal point of hopping on a blast... a lower bf is just a by product when doing a prime slowly as Marcus stated doesn't always make for the best environment because of water and bf gain by changing you're metabolism -

Read this T

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...e-cycling.html

And I've always been a fan of higher test myself but were different!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NACH3

Basically, over doing a pre-cycle prime slowly your not changing your metabolism by carb cycling - your reducing your glycogen stores at a slow the nitrogen retention and increasing protein synthesis in a muscle building environment is at a premium/or most optimal point of hopping on a blast... a lower bf is just a by product when doing a prime slowly as Marcus stated doesn't always make for the best environment because of water and bf gain by changing you're metabolism
Read this T

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...e-cycling.html

And I've always been a fan of higher test myself but were different!

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Its the opposite mate, doing a prime slowly is the way to go not the other way around

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marcus300

Its the opposite mate, doing a prime slowly is the way to go not the other way around

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That's what I meant mate slowly reducing glycogen stores... correct?!

Edit - I see I said doesn't when I meant does lol
Sorry for mix uo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NACH3

That's what I meant mate slowly reducing glycogen stores... correct?!

Edit - I see I said doesn't when I meant does lol
Sorry for mix uo

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I know i thought wtf ive taught him lol lol

Lmao - Yes you surely have, fuk me mate

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marcus300

I know i thought wtf ive taught him lol lol

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I have only glanced through that post before Marcus (http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...e-cycling.html) but never, honestly thought about it much. That is on me obviously! I think I will try your preferred method for the remaining time, maybe it will end up taking longer which is no big deal, in zero rush anyways.

Here is how I am eating right now, about 350 kcal deficit with my maintenance being 2850.

Deficit:
Carbohydrates: 210g
Protein: 190g
Fat: 100g

My maintenance is:
Carbohydrates: 288g
Protein: 200g
Fat: 100g


If I understand you correctly I should, after eating at maintenance again eat in the following way:

Low carb days:
Carbohydrates: 172g
Protein: 270g
Fat: 120g

High Carb day:
Carbohydrates: 332g
Protein: 190g
Fat: 85g

I'd try not eating at a deficit... especially since your already kind of carb cycling - hold onto your tissue(all of it)

So start out at a 3low(40-50% lower than maintance) one high days(15% higher) and slowly extend(according to your body) 4 low 1high etc but never go past 6 low days as it can alter your metabolism - basically says that in the link :)

I modified my nutrition in accordance with Marcus priming. Going to take a bit longer to reach where I need to be for Mast but that is Ok.

The cycle is going to look like this. I modified Masteron to 600mg/wk after some input.

Test-P 500mg/wk
Masteron 600mg/wk
Anavar 100mg ed

Last question. Would it be better to limit this cycle to 8 or 6 weeks or simply go by any sides I am experiencing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tarmyg

Last question. Would it be better to limit this cycle to 8 or 6 weeks or simply go by any sides I am experiencing?

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Personally I would suggest that you keep it open ended, have an aim but be guided by results and sides. If you start seeing gains slow down around week 6-7 then consider coming off, if your still doing well keep it going until you see you gains stop. Don't increase dosages all that does is increase sides imho. Once you have produce growth come off and recover and get ready for maintenance

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tarmyg

I modified my nutrition in accordance with Marcus priming. Going to take a bit longer to reach where I need to be for Mast but that is Ok.

The cycle is going to look like this. I modified Masteron to 600mg/wk after some input.

Test-P 500mg/wk
Masteron 600mg/wk
Anavar 100mg ed

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I like this a lot! Mast & Var will surely help in strength as they're DHT's which are very anabolic! Plus they give great pumps(add in citruline and Argenine pre-w/o) and it'll enhance your pumps as they're vasodialtors(open up your veins for more blood flow) ;)

Let us know how you get on since it's for strength - and I'd like to know how you feel about the synergistic effects of mast Var and the prop will be a great addition!

I like the mast at 600/wk pretty much my sweet spot but I've ran it only twice) I like winny ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NACH3

If I could I'd be running GH at 2iu/daily for life... :)

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I'm about to start gh year round. When I bulk I'll polly pick it up to 4-6 iu a day and rest of the year 2 i.u. I've wanted to try this for years now :)