My plan on my first cycle

[lifegoeson]

I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for this.
I've been lifting for 1.5 years.
Height: 5'55
Weight: 142-144
Age: Turned 18 a month ago
Dads height: 5'10
Moms height: 4'11
Diet: Vegetarian, no eggs,
Breakfast: Oatmeal w fat milk, 1/2 cup hemp seeds
2nd meal Lunch: 1 cup kidney beans, 5 oz white rice, 2 tbsp cashews
3rd meal Preworkout meal: 2 scoops ON whey powder mixed with water with 1 serving cream of rice or scratch the cream of rice and eat one serving of quinoa on side
4th meal after workout: carb up with 4 rice cakes
5/6 meal of the day: 1 cup lentils with 1 cup lowfat yogurt and 5 oz rice again

Medication I'm on:
Welbutrin (bupropion) 100 mg a day ( have been on for 2 years+ )
Prozac (fluoxentine) have been on for 3 monthsish now , 20mg everyday
Severe depression that is getting better.

I started this clean eating a month ago and have gained 2-3 lbs. I consider it a clean bulking. I've been lifting for 1.5 years, I've lifted for half a year solidly but my nutrition has just got on point the past month - month and half. I am a vegetarian so my diet was always shitty. But I stopped eating what my parents made and have gotten my diet solid, my workouts are solid and I consider myself fairly knowledgeable in the workout department if that makes sense, uhm I workout 2-3 hours everyday, I don't take rest days often, maybe every 2 weeks, the gym is my outlet and I've been getting better mentally and freshier so I can afford to take time off from the gym without feeling like shit. Before if I took time off from the gym I would feel horrible, but now I'm learning to take one day off a week. I don't have a split but I don't work the same muscles 48 hours and I don't focus on smaller muscles, I focus on compound exercises which work the arms and core, I haven't been doing deadlifts/squats/cleans the past 3 months and I think I have grew a bit, have never gotten my height measured. I still live with my parents so getting this stuff is going to be hard but I am getting a job very very soon, week or two, why am I doing this cycle? I'm 80% sure I am. I feel like diet is 80% and lifting is 20% and I've been doing lifting 80% and diet 20% for the past year and I have a lot of catching up to do I realized after hardly getting 50g of protein in me for the year I was lifting with the 80% lifting mindset, but now I'm getting more than enough protein, my diet and training is in check, I just don't have the patience. If I do the PCT , AL , HCG properly I hope not to lose any more hair than I am , I'm losing hair bc of my medication I'm pretty sure, but I just wanna start enjoying life and don't have the patience anymore, I understand that steroids aren't an magic pill and I'm ready. If I do the cycle properly than I hope my height still has a chance to grow. I just want to do one cycle but also understand that no one just does one cycle. I understand my weights low and I have not found research on whether or not my future gains will be plateued almost immediately if I start steroids now but I don't know.
Idea of my cycle:
Week 1-4 : Low Dbol (10-30mg?) ED? Correct
Weeks 1-12: Test 400-500 mg a week (250 Monday, 250 Mid Thursday)
PCT:
Clomid, Adex (armidex right?), Something extra for the hair? , Nolvadex ? maybe Exemestane
I need an ancillary compound and a HCG?

[Couchlock]

I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for this.
I've been lifting for 1.5 years.
Height: 5'55
Weight: 142-144
Age: Turned 18 a month ago
Dads height: 5'10
Moms height: 4'11
Diet: Vegetarian, no eggs,
Breakfast: Oatmeal w fat milk, 1/2 cup hemp seeds
2nd meal Lunch: 1 cup kidney beans, 5 oz white rice, 2 tbsp cashews
3rd meal Preworkout meal: 2 scoops ON whey powder mixed with water with 1 serving cream of rice or scratch the cream of rice and eat one serving of quinoa on side
4th meal after workout: carb up with 4 rice cakes
5/6 meal of the day: 1 cup lentils with 1 cup lowfat yogurt and 5 oz rice again

Medication I'm on:
Welbutrin (bupropion) 100 mg a day ( have been on for 2 years+ )
Prozac (fluoxentine) have been on for 3 monthsish now , 20mg everyday
Severe depression that is getting better.

I started this clean eating a month ago and have gained 2-3 lbs. I consider it a clean bulking. I've been lifting for 1.5 years, I've lifted for half a year solidly but my nutrition has just got on point the past month - month and half. I am a vegetarian so my diet was always shitty. But I stopped eating what my parents made and have gotten my diet solid, my workouts are solid and I consider myself fairly knowledgeable in the workout department if that makes sense, uhm I workout 2-3 hours everyday, I don't take rest days often, maybe every 2 weeks, the gym is my outlet and I've been getting better mentally and freshier so I can afford to take time off from the gym without feeling like shit. Before if I took time off from the gym I would feel horrible, but now I'm learning to take one day off a week. I don't have a split but I don't work the same muscles 48 hours and I don't focus on smaller muscles, I focus on compound exercises which work the arms and core, I haven't been doing deadlifts/squats/cleans the past 3 months and I think I have grew a bit, have never gotten my height measured. I still live with my parents so getting this stuff is going to be hard but I am getting a job very very soon, week or two, why am I doing this cycle? I'm 80% sure I am. I feel like diet is 80% and lifting is 20% and I've been doing lifting 80% and diet 20% for the past year and I have a lot of catching up to do I realized after hardly getting 50g of protein in me for the year I was lifting with the 80% lifting mindset, but now I'm getting more than enough protein, my diet and training is in check, I just don't have the patience. If I do the PCT , AL , HCG properly I hope not to lose any more hair than I am , I'm losing hair bc of my medication I'm pretty sure, but I just wanna start enjoying life and don't have the patience anymore, I understand that steroids aren't an magic pill and I'm ready. If I do the cycle properly than I hope my height still has a chance to grow. I just want to do one cycle but also understand that no one just does one cycle. I understand my weights low and I have not found research on whether or not my future gains will be plateued almost immediately if I start steroids now but I don't know.
Idea of my cycle:
Week 1-4 : Low Dbol (10-30mg?) ED? Correct
Weeks 1-12: Test 400-500 mg a week (250 Monday, 250 Mid Thursday)
PCT:
Clomid, Adex (armidex right?), Something extra for the hair? , Nolvadex ? maybe Exemestane
I need an ancillary compound and a HCG?

Your not going to get "shit".

You are going to get advice.

You just started out, eating right for a month lifting for 1 year, and its time for dbol and test?

Knock it off.

You'll not get what You Think,you'll get this young.
.your penis is going to twkecthe hardest hit.

It will start to shrink at age 18 instead of age 58

[songdog]

Bro DIET is 95% of everything you are young and got a lot to learn like how too train properly and eat right.I am not trying too be rude but aas isn't a good thing at your age it can really mess up your Endo system which can cause ED no libido depression.Please read the young and steroids thread found in the educational threads.

[lifegoeson]

Your not going to get "shit".

You are going to get advice.

You just started out, eating right for a month lifting for 1 year, and its time for dbol and test?

Knock it off.

You'll not get what You Think,you'll get this young.
.your penis is going to twkecthe hardest hit.

It will start to shrink at age 18 instead of age 58

Yeah I'm down for advice, I'm not arrogant and am ready to sit down and learn.
Why would my penis take such a hard hit? honestly I can hardly get it up on the medication I'm on right now so whats the difference? Wouldn't my balls shrink not my dick.

[lifegoeson]

Bro DIET is 95% of everything you are young and got a lot to learn like how too train properly and eat right.I am not trying too be rude but aas isn't a good thing at your age it can really mess up your Endo system which can cause ED no libido depression.Please read the young and steroids thread found in the educational threads.

I appreciate this I do , I think I am training properly and eating right, why would it mess up my endo system if I do PCT correctly, I already have ED due to my medication and I read that thread.

[Couchlock]

I appreciate this I do , I think I am training properly and eating right, why would it mess up my endo system if I do PCT correctly, I already have ED due to my medication and I read that thread.

Your system has yet to establish a set "norm"

Shut down this early, you may never reach proper levels ever after a early hard shut down (dbol and test)

[Marcus G]

I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for this.
I've been lifting for 1.5 years.
Height: 5'55
Weight: 142-144
Age: Turned 18 a month ago
Dads height: 5'10
Moms height: 4'11
Diet: Vegetarian, no eggs,
Breakfast: Oatmeal w fat milk, 1/2 cup hemp seeds
2nd meal Lunch: 1 cup kidney beans, 5 oz white rice, 2 tbsp cashews
3rd meal Preworkout meal: 2 scoops ON whey powder mixed with water with 1 serving cream of rice or scratch the cream of rice and eat one serving of quinoa on side
4th meal after workout: carb up with 4 rice cakes
5/6 meal of the day: 1 cup lentils with 1 cup lowfat yogurt and 5 oz rice again

Medication I'm on:
Welbutrin (bupropion) 100 mg a day ( have been on for 2 years+ )
Prozac (fluoxentine) have been on for 3 monthsish now , 20mg everyday
Severe depression that is getting better.

I started this clean eating a month ago and have gained 2-3 lbs. I consider it a clean bulking. I've been lifting for 1.5 years, I've lifted for half a year solidly but my nutrition has just got on point the past month - month and half. I am a vegetarian so my diet was always shitty. But I stopped eating what my parents made and have gotten my diet solid, my workouts are solid and I consider myself fairly knowledgeable in the workout department if that makes sense, uhm I workout 2-3 hours everyday, I don't take rest days often, maybe every 2 weeks, the gym is my outlet and I've been getting better mentally and freshier so I can afford to take time off from the gym without feeling like shit. Before if I took time off from the gym I would feel horrible, but now I'm learning to take one day off a week. I don't have a split but I don't work the same muscles 48 hours and I don't focus on smaller muscles, I focus on compound exercises which work the arms and core, I haven't been doing deadlifts/squats/cleans the past 3 months and I think I have grew a bit, have never gotten my height measured. I still live with my parents so getting this stuff is going to be hard but I am getting a job very very soon, week or two, why am I doing this cycle? I'm 80% sure I am. I feel like diet is 80% and lifting is 20% and I've been doing lifting 80% and diet 20% for the past year and I have a lot of catching up to do I realized after hardly getting 50g of protein in me for the year I was lifting with the 80% lifting mindset, but now I'm getting more than enough protein, my diet and training is in check, I just don't have the patience. If I do the PCT , AL , HCG properly I hope not to lose any more hair than I am , I'm losing hair bc of my medication I'm pretty sure, but I just wanna start enjoying life and don't have the patience anymore, I understand that steroids aren't an magic pill and I'm ready. If I do the cycle properly than I hope my height still has a chance to grow. I just want to do one cycle but also understand that no one just does one cycle. I understand my weights low and I have not found research on whether or not my future gains will be plateued almost immediately if I start steroids now but I don't know.
Idea of my cycle:
Week 1-4 : Low Dbol (10-30mg?) ED? Correct
Weeks 1-12: Test 400-500 mg a week (250 Monday, 250 Mid Thursday)
PCT:
Clomid, Adex (armidex right?), Something extra for the hair? , Nolvadex ? maybe Exemestane
I need an ancillary compound and a HCG?

You shouldn't cycle for many reasons but the biggest one is your depression you need to get that sorted out before you even consider a cycle.

[lifegoeson]

Sorted out? By that you mean talk it out with my doctor, find a medication that works.

[lifegoeson]

Your system has yet to establish a set "norm"

Shut down this early, you may never reach proper levels ever after a early hard shut down (dbol and test)

By an early hard shut down, you mean a 8 week cycle , correct? Because my natural test wont shut off most likely if I do a 8 week cycle instead of a 12.

[Couchlock]

You shouldn't cycle for many reasons but the biggest one is your depression you need to get that sorted out before you even consider a cycle.

Yes, you think life is "hard" or depressing now, wait till you jack your hormones, many youngens off themselves after cycle (not many, but it does happen )

[lifegoeson]

Yes, you think life is "hard" or depressing now, wait till you jack your hormones, many youngens off themselves after cycle (not many, but it does happen )

I don't work right now but I will in the next week or so. I graduate high school in a month. I have committed to a college next year, all I day nowadays is lay in bed all day, work my ass off in the gym (usually with a preworkout bc its the only way I can get off my ass), so idk why life is so hard or depressing rn, but is it that much of a difference?

[songdog]

By an early hard shut down, you mean a 8 week cycle , correct? Because my natural test wont shut off most likely if I do a 8 week cycle instead of a 12.

Injecting test will shut you DOWN! you need too do a lot more reading bro and read the young and steroids again but this time take the head phones off and take notes beacuse it seems you miss a lot.

[lifegoeson]

Injecting test will shut you DOWN! you need too do a lot more reading bro and read the young and steroids again but this time take the head phones off and take notes beacuse it seems you miss a lot.

I read it again and I understand that injecting test will shut me down.

[Capebuffalo]

Please read

The young and Steroids

[lifegoeson]

Anyone have anything helpful to add, ive read tht damn post 4 times.

[Capebuffalo]

Anyone have anything helpful to add, ive read tht damn post 4 times.

You are too young. You don't have a grasp of diet. You haven't trained long enough. That's about as helpful as I can be.

[lifegoeson]

You are too young. You don't have a grasp of diet. You haven't trained long enough. That's about as helpful as I can be.

If you could elaborate on my nonexistant grasp of diet that'd be nice, why does time matter with training so much, you need to elaborate, it's not helpful unless you do, still appreciative regardless.

[Capebuffalo]

If you could elaborate on my nonexistant grasp of diet that'd be nice, why does time matter with training so much, you need to elaborate, it's not helpful unless you do, still appreciative regardless.

What's your tdee?
Your tendons and ligament aren't strong enough yet to handle the increased weight from aas.

[ghettoboyd]

Anyone have anything helpful to add, ive read tht damn post 4 times.

have you really? if you did you wouldn't even be thinking about steroids ...cant imagine how depressed you will be if you go through with this...you are 18 man why would you want to fuck up you HPTA and endocrine systems for gains that will most definitely disappear almost as fast as you make them( and yes even with a "perfect" PCT there are NO grantees of recovery) ...then have to live with the aftermath for the rest of your life...its absolutely foolish but its your body do as you wish...I didn't start till I was 36...im 45 now and wish I never touched the shit...good luck...

[Nogbad the bad]

Anyone have anything helpful to add, ive read tht damn post 4 times.

Simple enough,you are far far too young to be taking
any drugs.Anti depressants and such is bad enough,for fuck sake why are you depressed? You're at home with your folks you're in education,you have a job
to start.Have a look at the poor bastards in Syria,or Iraq,or another dozen places i could mention.They're being bombed,gassed,starved,tortured etc.
Your problem is you're used to getting what you want,without having to graft for it.Well, you can be excused to a degree because of your age,but that doesn't
make it right,and that's the problem,your immaturity.
Gear will fuck you up at your age.Learn about life,and have a piece of it.

[lifegoeson]

Simple enough,you are far far too young to be taking
any drugs.Anti depressants and such is bad enough,for fuck sake why are you depressed? You're at home with your folks you're in education,you have a job
to start.Have a look at the poor bastards in Syria,or Iraq,or another dozen places i could mention.They're being bombed,gassed,starved,tortured etc.
Your problem is you're used to getting what you want,without having to graft for it.Well, you can be excused to a degree because of your age,but that doesn't
make it right,and that's the problem,your immaturity.
Gear will fuck you up at your age.Learn about life,and have a piece of it.

I'm glad you don't understand. That's not how it works. But thank you for your insight.

[lifegoeson]

What's your tdee?
Your tendons and ligament aren't strong enough yet to handle the increased weight from aas.

My TDEE:
Optimal: 4200
75 P ( I get 170-190 )
60 F
365 C
BMR: 2400
TDEE: 3750

Straight from IIFYM .
What would make my tendons and ligaments ready?

[ghettoboyd]

My TDEE:
Optimal: 4200
75 P ( I get 170-190 )
60 F
365 C
BMR: 2400
TDEE: 3750

Straight from IIFYM .
What would make my tendons and ligaments ready?

putting more time in the gym as your tendons will not be used to the increased weights you will be lifting while on aas..your strength will skyrocket but you tendons may not be ready to be put under the stress you are about to put them under and serious injury can occur...

[Capebuffalo]

My TDEE:
Optimal: 4200
75 P ( I get 170-190 )
60 F
365 C
BMR: 2400
TDEE: 3750

Straight from IIFYM .
What would make my tendons and ligaments ready?

What's the breakdown on your diet

Diet: Vegetarian, no eggs,
Breakfast: Oatmeal w fat milk, 1/2 cup hemp seeds
2nd meal Lunch: 1 cup kidney beans, 5 oz white rice, 2 tbsp cashews
3rd meal Preworkout meal: 2 scoops ON whey powder mixed with water with 1 serving cream of rice or scratch the cream of rice and eat one serving of quinoa on side
4th meal after workout: carb up with 4 rice cakes
5/6 meal of the day: 1 cup lentils with 1 cup lowfat yogurt and 5 oz rice again
.

That's not 3700

[Couchlock]

What's the breakdown on your diet

Diet: Vegetarian, no eggs,
Breakfast: Oatmeal w fat milk, 1/2 cup hemp seeds
2nd meal Lunch: 1 cup kidney beans, 5 oz white rice, 2 tbsp cashews
3rd meal Preworkout meal: 2 scoops ON whey powder mixed with water with 1 serving cream of rice or scratch the cream of rice and eat one serving of quinoa on side
4th meal after workout: carb up with 4 rice cakes
5/6 meal of the day: 1 cup lentils with 1 cup lowfat yogurt and 5 oz rice again
.

That's not 3700

That's about 2k at best.

And macros not in a good mass building ratio as well

[Couchlock]

That's about 2k at best.

And macros not in a good mass building ratio as well

You ain't getting jack shit for protein with this diet.

Do you realize you need to eat like a tazamisn devil high on hash when you cycle.

Diet is 85% of training on cycle or off, then routine is the other 7.5% then sleep bringing in the remaining 7.5%.

Steroids take you from "arrived" to "fucking arrived"

[lifegoeson]

You ain't getting jack shit for protein with this diet.

Do you realize you need to eat like a tazamisn devil high on hash when you cycle.

Diet is 85% of training on cycle or off, then routine is the other 7.5% then sleep bringing in the remaining 7.5%.

Steroids take you from "arrived" to "fucking arrived"

[230isthegoal]

Your daily food intake looks like a snack compared to what I ate on my cycle. Take these guys advice and wait.

[Couchlock]

<img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169171"/>

I stand corrected

[Nephets]

If you could elaborate on my nonexistant grasp of diet that'd be nice, why does time matter with training so much, you need to elaborate, it's not helpful unless you do, still appreciative regardless.

I'll try to break down a bit of what the vets are looking at here so please take no offence. You state that your tdee is 3750. You then show us your diet which consists of about 3000 calories. Keeping that in mind you should be dropping weight as you are currently eating less than you need. That's a big red flag as why you may not be getting the results you are looking for. Going on cycle with your diet like this will not produce any muscle gain as you are not eating enough. Now you may say, I'll up my calories when I'm on cycle so I will add muscle. To that the vets will say, if you simply upped your calories now, you would gain muscle fairly quickly without the risky cycle. That's why they are telling you your diet is off.

[charger69]

You have received excellent advice. If you go to the diet section, you can get additional information.

[Mr.BB]

You are too young for steroids , unless you want to mess your hormones, potentially for life, and completely halt your growth.

Epiphyseal plates (or growth plates) are sealed by estrogen, which if you do steroids will definitely have an increase. This is a fact.

All this potential problems for a few pounds of muscle, which you will lose most as its clear you dont have a good diet, and your training its not for bodybuilding.

Nobody trains for over 2 hours everyday, unless you are training for a marathon, or some sport requiring endurance. Specially in a bulk, watching videos of professional bodybuilders is very deceiving as they only shot the videos when in shape (not off-season), and when they are in contest prep the volume builds up cause they in a cut, plus they are pumped with so much drugs that you dont even imagine. You only need to train HARD for 3-4 times a week, not more than 1 hour, but maybe its still difficult for you to reach high intensity.

[lifegoeson]

I'll try to break down a bit of what the vets are looking at here so please take no offence. You state that your tdee is 3750. You then show us your diet which consists of about 3000 calories. Keeping that in mind you should be dropping weight as you are currently eating less than you need. That's a big red flag as why you may not be getting the results you are looking for. Going on cycle with your diet like this will not produce any muscle gain as you are not eating enough. Now you may say, I'll up my calories when I'm on cycle so I will add muscle. To that the vets will say, if you simply upped your calories now, you would gain muscle fairly quickly without the risky cycle. That's why they are telling you your diet is off.

I don't think my TDEE is accurate then, I personally feel 3000 calories is way more than enough for me as I'm gaining a lot of fat, I'll use a bodpod today at my gym to get my fat percentage, I'm gaining weight so my TDEE from IIFYM is probably off. I highly respect what the vets are saying, this is their field and I get that, I just am seeing so many people around me in the same district starting at the same age as me becoming increasingly built. My height may be lower than theirs but it seems like they're killing it, some examples: Instagram Tags:
DavidLaid - Mainland High School, works out at my gym ( 3 centers 20 minutes from eachother)

Also yes I can simply add 1000 calories to my diet as it is but honestly that would be increasingly hard and since I'm only 5'5 it would make me gain a lot of fat, I'm saying that if I correct my diet as I start the cycle, as it is not bad as of now, I can gain this weight as muscle and not look like a midget, I probably should get an x-ray scan done to see if my plates are done growing, I can do that.

[lifegoeson]

You are too young for steroids , unless you want to mess your hormones, potentially for life, and completely halt your growth.

Epiphyseal plates (or growth plates) are sealed by estrogen, which if you do steroids will definitely have an increase. This is a fact.

All this potential problems for a few pounds of muscle, which you will lose most as its clear you dont have a good diet, and your training its not for bodybuilding.

Nobody trains for over 2 hours everyday, unless you are training for a marathon, or some sport requiring endurance. Specially in a bulk, watching videos of professional bodybuilders is very deceiving as they only shot the videos when in shape (not off-season), and when they are in contest prep the volume builds up cause they in a cut, plus they are pumped with so much drugs that you dont even imagine. You only need to train HARD for 3-4 times a week, not more than 1 hour, but maybe its still difficult for you to reach high intensity.

I can lose my 2 hour intense training, my training is very high intensity because I am always sweating, sore, and I hardly take breaks, I usually train until I can't literally for that day without a carb up or something that gives me energy, this is after my preworkout. I workout near these professional bodybuilders and they all look like the same in person, obviously without the veins but most of them have the physique I desire. Will my plates seal if my PCT, HCG , and AL are all in proper ratio? If they are not already sealed.

[Couchlock]

I can lose my 2 hour intense training, my training is very high intensity because I am always sweating, sore, and I hardly take breaks, I usually train until I can't literally for that day without a carb up or something that gives me energy, this is after my preworkout. I workout near these professional bodybuilders and they all look like the same in person, obviously without the veins but most of them have the physique I desire. Will my plates seal if my PCT, HCG, and AL are all in proper ratio? If they are not already sealed.

I don't see you training 2 hours intensly

[lifegoeson]

I don't see you training 2 hours intensly

That's alright.

[Mr.BB]

I can lose my 2 hour intense training, my training is very high intensity because I am always sweating, sore, and I hardly take breaks, I usually train until I can't literally for that day without a carb up or something that gives me energy, this is after my preworkout. I workout near these professional bodybuilders and they all look like the same in person, obviously without the veins but most of them have the physique I desire. Will my plates seal if my PCT, HCG, and AL are all in proper ratio? If they are not already sealed.

Like I tried to say before, bodybuilding is not endurance training.

Yes, your plates will be exposed to increased estrogen from steroids regardless of anything you take.

[lifegoeson]

Like I tried to say before, bodybuilding is not endurance training.

Yes, your plates will be exposed to increased estrogen from steroids regardless of anything you take.

Where would I research it.

[Nephets]

Do some reading here.**Marcus's HIT Dungeon**

It may be something different to consider.

[Mr.BB]

Where would I research it.

Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates HIT (high intensity training)

Or of course our HIT sensei Marcus300: **Marcus's HIT Dungeon**

EDIT: opps, didnt see your post Nephets