is this cycle overkill for my goals?

[tsuchi]

hi guys, pretty simple and quick question, i have quite a lot of gear at the moment, and i don't wish to waste it,or over do it since i have moderate goals right now

i'm courrently at my 4th cycle ( only used primo and sust in my previous cycles, for 8 to 12 weeks at the most ) now i'm at my 4th week of using 300 test cyp, 300 winny, 300 primo per week ( had to keep things low and easy becouse i needed to train less ahrd for a month since i had a surgery in july and i had to wait for the wounds to fully heal) and starting from tomorrow ( since i'm fully healed now) i would like to up the game and switch the compounds for another 5 weeks or so,doing this: 500 test cyp, 500 winny, 400 tren ace, 100 primo ( don't wanna waste the leftovers ) per week ( pinning schedule as follows )

day 1 : 100 primo,200 winny, 200 test,100 tren

day 2 : /

day 3 : 100 winny,100 test, 100 tren

day 4 : /

day 5 : 100 winny,100 test, 100 tren

day 6 : /

day 7 : 100 winny,100 test, 100 tren

now for my starting question, considering i'm courretly 190 lbs around 11-12% bf ,and my goal is to put on around 20 lbs of solid muscle and shed 3-4 points of bf at the same time in 5 weeks, do you think i'm good like this or is this overkill?

thanks

[The Deadlifting Dog]

You are never going to put on 20lbs of solid muscle and lose 3-4% BF in 5 weeks. (You'd have to lose 1 lb of fat a week while gaining 4 lbs of muscle a week!)
The mere fact that you ask if you can makes me believe you have never cycled before.

[PT1982]

Primo is a poor choice of you're looking for quick results. Your doses of it are extremely low as well. Its too expensive to use it in a way that's going to be hugely overshadowed by the other compounds. Anytime I use primo, I prefer it to be the primary compound so that it's effects shine because primo can show some incredible results given enough time and enough to get results. Even though 12 weeks of most enanthate esters is plenty, for some reason or another, primo seems to want to be ran at 16 or more.

[tsuchi]

i managed to put on 20+ lbs in 8 weeks before ,with MUTCH less gear, ( not shedding fat at the same time tough, true ) that's why i was asking if it was possible to do so with this mutch gear. belive what you wan't, this is my 4th cycle, as i stated

[tsuchi]

Primo is a poor choice of you're looking for quick results. Your doses of it are extremely low as well. Its too expensive to use it in a way that's going to be hugely overshadowed by the other compounds. Anytime I use primo, I prefer it to be the primary compound so that it's effects shine because primo can show some incredible results given enough time and enough to get results. Even though 12 weeks of most enanthate esters is plenty, for some reason or another, primo seems to want to be ran at 16 or more.

i know, that's how i always use it too, the thing is i have some blends right now ( primo,test and winny and test,winny,tren all of each are dosed at 100/100/100 each ml) if i use any more than 1 ml of primo blend , i'm going to go way too high with test and winny,considering there are anothter 100 each in each ml of tren blend, and i would use 4 ml per week of it ( the resoults would be 5 ml total composed by 4 mls tren blend ( tren 100,winny 100,test 100 x 4 + 1 ml of primo blend composed by primo 100,winny 100,test 100) the grand total would be 500 test, 500 winny, 400 tren, 100 primo as stated for 1.5 grams a week total of gear ( i cannot pick each individual compound to dose individually that's my issue right now but on the other hand i don't wan't to just stop using primo half way and letting it go to waste... i just took the tren blend today, it was not planned )

[The Deadlifting Dog]

i managed to put on 20+ lbs in 8 weeks before ,with MUTCH less gear, ( not shedding fat at the same time tough, true ) that's why i was asking if it was possible to do so with this mutch gear. belive what you wan't, this is my 4th cycle, as i stated

20lbs in 9 weeks is 2.5lbs per week.
much different then 4lbs per week.

And I guarantee you that at least half of the 20+ lbs was water and not pure muscle.

[Cuz]

Only 20lbs of muscle in 5 weeks? cmon shoot for 40....

[Quester]

Perhaps part of the reason that people younger than 25 shouldn't cycle is because of their unreasonable expectations?

[tsuchi]

so bottom line i'm getting from this, that i should not expect to put on that kind of mass and shed that kind of bf in 5 weeks even with 1.5 grams per week of gear, 400 mgs of it consisting of tren, right? ok

so what should i expect in terms of adding weight, and shedding fat in a reasonable range from this? can you at least answer to that?

i'm 27 by the way, and as i said multiple times i have already 3 cycles and half of this 4th under my belt, i'm not a complete noob. not expert by any means,that's why i'm asking questions here, but not a complete amateur either,so please stop this useless condescending attitude and kindly leave some constructive opinions and suggestions about what i'm asking if you can, thank you

[tsuchi]

20lbs in 9 weeks is 2.5lbs per week.
much different then 4lbs per week.

And I guarantee you that at least half of the 20+ lbs was water and not pure muscle.

i know, but i managed to put that on with only 250 mgs of sust and 400 mgs of primo per week that time, now i'm using more than DUBLE the amount of gear, and 400 mgs of that gram and half is composed by tren, this HAS to make a difference in how quick you can put on mass and even shed a little fat, i was only guessing since it's my first time with this high of a dose, but c'mon, i refuse to belive the difference will be negligeble between what i used than and what i wanna use now

[DocToxin8]

i know, but i managed to put that on with only 250 mgs of sust and 400 mgs of primo per week that time, now i'm using more than DUBLE the amount of gear, and 400 mgs of that gram and half is composed by tren, this HAS to make a difference in how quick you can put on mass and even shed a little fat, i was only guessing since it's my first time with this high of a dose, but c'mon, i refuse to belive the difference will be negligeble between what i used than and what i wanna use now

To answer your question (partly);

I gained more with 250mg test e pr week for 12 weeks during my first cycle,
than I gained with 1g test e, 300mg tren, 50mg DBOL in a later cycle.

The only time I had close to my initial weight gain was the first time I included hgh and slin.

[Sh0tsf1red]

so bottom line i'm getting from this, that i should not expect to put on that kind of mass and shed that kind of bf in 5 weeks even with 1.5 grams per week of gear, 400 mgs of it consisting of tren, right? ok

so what should i expect in terms of adding weight, and shedding fat in a reasonable range from this? can you at least answer to that?

i'm 27 by the way, and as i said multiple times i have already 3 cycles and half of this 4th under my belt, i'm not a complete noob. not expert by any means,that's why i'm asking questions here, but not a complete amateur either,so please stop this useless condescending attitude and kindly leave some constructive opinions and suggestions about what i'm asking if you can, thank you

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen guy.

You asked a question, and you got your answers. Wasn't what you wanted to hear? Too bad. Not everyone gets a medal or gold star here.

Buck up

[tsuchi]

To answer your question (partly);

I gained more with 250mg test e pr week for 12 weeks during my first cycle,
than I gained with 1g test e, 300mg tren, 50mg DBOL in a later cycle.

The only time I had close to my initial weight gain was the first time I included hgh and slin.

hmmm i see. so it's a matter of diminishing returns from now on...this sucks. can i at least expect 10 libs of realatively clean mass added and to shed 1 or 2 points of bf in this perio of time with this dosages? it's the very least i think, if not i will be majorly desappointed

[ScotchGuard02]

hi guys, pretty simple and quick question, i have quite a lot of gear at the moment, and i don't wish to waste it,or over do it since i have moderate goals right now

i'm courrently at my 4th cycle ( only used primo and sust in my previous cycles, for 8 to 12 weeks at the most ) now i'm at my 4th week of using 300 test cyp, 300 winny, 300 primo per week ( had to keep things low and easy becouse i needed to train less ahrd for a month since i had a surgery in july and i had to wait for the wounds to fully heal) and starting from tomorrow ( since i'm fully healed now) i would like to up the game and switch the compounds for another 5 weeks or so,doing this: 500 test cyp, 500 winny, 400 tren ace, 100 primo ( don't wanna waste the leftovers ) per week ( pinning schedule as follows )

day 1 : 100 primo,200 winny, 200 test,100 tren

day 2 : /

day 3 : 100 winny,100 test, 100 tren

day 4 : /

day 5 : 100 winny,100 test, 100 tren

day 6 : /

day 7 : 100 winny,100 test, 100 tren

now for my starting question, considering i'm courretly 190 lbs around 11-12% bf ,and my goal is to put on around 20 lbs of solid muscle and shed 3-4 points of bf at the same time in 5 weeks, do you think i'm good like this or is this overkill?

thanks

Gain 20lbs in 5 weeks? You're taking compounds better suited for a cutting cycle. Technically, you could gain 20lbs in 5 weeks if you ate enough. Practically speaking, based on your stack, I don't think you're going to gain 20lbs of muscles in 5 weeks. Don't monkey with the doses. Just pick one and stay with it. If you're only taking 100mg/wk of Primo, just drop it. It'll do very little for you.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Gain 20lbs in 5 weeks? You're taking compounds better suited for a cutting cycle. Technically, you could gain 20lbs in 5 weeks if you ate enough. Practically speaking, based on your stack, I don't think you're going to gain 20lbs of muscles in 5 weeks. Don't monkey with the doses. Just pick one and stay with it. If you're only taking 100mg/wk of Primo, just drop it. It'll do very little for you.

It's not just 20lbs...
it's 20lbs of pure muscle while also losing 5lbs of fat..


Anyone can put on 20lbs in 5weeks.
20lbs of pure muscle is impossible

[tsuchi]

It's not just 20lbs...
it's 20lbs of pure muscle while also losing 5lbs of fat..


Anyone can put on 20lbs in 5weeks.
20lbs of pure muscle is impossible

ok i got it, that is clear now. do you think ,let's say half those numbers would be a more reasonable thing to expect from this?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

one pound of muscle is a lot to put on in a week.
If someone does a 12 week cycle and keeps 8-10 solid pounds then that is successful.
Sure, plenty of internet kids will say they put on 30lbs of muscle and kept all of it.
If that were true then we would all be 250lbs and ripped.
With a good diet you might put on 8-10lbs during your cycle.
Half will be water.
If you keep 5-6 solid lbs 2 months after PCT then that would be good.
But you probably won't since you are also trying to lose BF at the same time.

[tsuchi]

one pound of muscle is a lot to put on in a week.
If someone does a 12 week cycle and keeps 8-10 solid pounds then that is successful.
Sure, plenty of internet kids will say they put on 30lbs of muscle and kept all of it.
If that were true then we would all be 250lbs and ripped.
With a good diet you might put on 8-10lbs during your cycle.
Half will be water.
If you keep 5-6 solid lbs 2 months after PCT then that would be good.
But you probably won't since you are also trying to lose BF at the same time.

hmmmm that is, quite bad actually...considering the amount of shit i'm taking i would of expected a lot more...do you think i should completely focus on recomp than and only aim to mantain my weight, or putting on at the most 4-5 lbs while shedding as mutch fat as possible? let's say aiming for those 5 points still but only mantainnig weight not adding anything. is this a reasonable goal than?

[songdog]

hmmm i see. so it's a matter of diminishing returns from now on...this sucks. can i at least expect 10 libs of realatively clean mass added and to shed 1 or 2 points of bf in this perio of time with this dosages? it's the very least i think, if not i will be majorly desappointed

NO! you are not going to drop fat and put on muscle it don't work that way.You got to eat to gain now dropping weight you will look more toned but not bigger.And yes you are using too much gear for your level.But you ask a question after you start.There is no need for tren until your 6th cycle.You need to rely more on diet and less on aas.

[Couchlock]

So, op

Your already on,this cycle?

Why haven't you gained that much at this point?

[tsuchi]

So, op

Your already on,this cycle?

Why haven't you gained that much at this point?

I'm not

i was still on test and primo only till now ( all my cycles i mean ). i decided i finish my test/winny/primo ( 300/300/300) alone this week and the next ( beeing 6 weeks of it total), than i go on for another 5 weeks at full test/winny/tren combo at 400 each per week. let's see what i end up with

[The Deadlifting Dog]

forget what I said....
didn't realize that you are already in the middle of a cycle and looking for further gains.

I personally think your cycle in overkill.
overly complicated.
Are you taking any hCG or AI or DA?
How much have you gained already from this cycle?
What was the surgery for??

[Cuz]

I couldn't even read that cycle layout tbh. Just too fuckin complicated for me

[MuscleScience]

It takes 3500 calories roughly to put on one lb of muscle, you have to lose 3600 calories to lose a pound of fat. So to try and gain a ton of muscle while dropping A ton of fat will be hard. You can recomp to some extent just because body fat percentage is relative. So if say you put on 10 lbs of muscle but don't lose any fat. Your body fat percentage will go down.

[tsuchi]

forget what I said....
didn't realize that you are already in the middle of a cycle and looking for further gains.

I personally think your cycle in overkill.
overly complicated.
Are you taking any hCG or AI or DA?
How much have you gained already from this cycle?
What was the surgery for??

surgery was at the jaw. could not train or eat any solid food for about 20 days. i was around 200 libs before surgery at the beginning of july ( 3 months post last cycle this spring ) at the end of my stop after surgery i was around 170.

now at the beginning of week 5 in my cycle, and beeing fully able to train at almost my max, and eat all solid food i'm back a 190, but i'm leaner than when i was 200 before usrgery, becouse during my liquid only diet time i have lost a bit of fat too.


My goal is to at the very least go back to the weight i was last time i cycled ( wich was around 215 ) that's why i wan't another 20 or so libs, becouse i'm not yet at full power again, and having to do this big of a cycle to not even be again as good as i was last time whit half of this shit triggers me like hell...but oh well, it seems it's gonna be this way...


mot taking any Ai ath the moment, whit only 300 test and 300 winny and primo i feel is not needed, will start using nolva, and maybe something else too when i start the tren combination.

no hcg untill pct, i bloat like a mofo on it ( it works on me super well,both in the good and the bad ways ) i feell it ruins my cycles, but i surely will use it to pct, i think i will do my usual clomid,hcg,proviron protocol

[Kai Lover]

Is taking the Winstrol once a week like that good for your liver? Would you not be a lot better off spacing it out?

[tsuchi]

Is taking the Winstrol once a week like that good for your liver? Would you not be a lot better off spacing it out?

i do. it's 3 shoot a week each consisting of 1 ml blend wich contains 100/100/100, gonna do the same with tren blend, only upping the shots to 4 per week

[tsuchi]

I couldn't even read that cycle layout tbh. Just too fuckin complicated for me

i'ts a matter of comodity. by playing with the doses like that i can manage to put in over a gram of stuff with only 4 injections per week consisting of 1 ml each. if i pin using individual componuds i will have to pin 9 times to reach the same amount of gear.

like this i gain time,i waste less syringes and i have less holes in my body all around, preventing overly abundant scar tissue forming, since i only pin in quads and shoulders too, this is important for me.

[Kai Lover]

I always wonder if those Tren Blends are real. A supplier of mine had Tri-Tren a few years ago (Acetate, Enanthate, HHB-Carbonate). Wouldn't be surprised at all if it was just plain old Enanthate.

[Couchlock]

So your runn8ng cycles with only a few weeks off?

[songdog]

i'ts a matter of comodity. by playing with the doses like that i can manage to put in over a gram of stuff with only 4 injections per week consisting of 1 ml each. if i pin using individual componuds i will have to pin 9 times to reach the same amount of gear.

like this i gain time,i waste less syringes and i have less holes in my body all around, preventing overly abundant scar tissue forming, since i only pin in quads and shoulders too, this is important for me.

post a pic of yourself.