My progress, looking for some advice.

**treNils** · 08-31-2017, 11:07 AM

Wanted to say hello and introduce myself. I've been a follower of this site for years now and have always found everyone on this site, well most everyone, extremely knowledgeable and trustworthy. I'm 38, 6'1", lean, ectomorph and am a hard gainer. I live and train in Colorado mainly for Elk Hunting. Been fit but small and skinny for my whole life. In the last couple years I have decided to step up and handle it like a man. I've done two cycles so far, first one was 6 weeks of Prop a few years ago. It was my first cycle and was unable to hold onto my gains as I was very new. It was a pain in ass having to pin every other day. More recently, I just completed a 13 week Sus250 cycle. Once a week pins is much easier. I did just the Sus250 alone and didn't stack. I was pinning 300 ml every 7 days. Went from 165 to 185lb and when I finished my BF was 10.3%. I got fairly good results but didn't get as big as I wanted to, which is why I am here. I was good on my diet, I was hitting my numbers of protein, fat and carb intake but definitely would like to increase my knowledge base before I start another cycle.

I'm currently working through my PCT stage and feel like I am shrinking. Currently 4 weeks into my PCT and holding at 177 lbs and BF 9.1%. I plan on completing my PCT cycle and then waiting about 6-10 weeks before starting up again. I was hoping to get some insight on some possible scenarios for my next cycle. I plan on doing 500 ml from beginning to end on my next cycle and am considering stacking to maximize my efforts. Any other hard gainers over 30 out there that have some insight would be greatly appreciated as well as anyone else that has info.

Couple questions...

1) Given that I was only pinning 300ml/week is it safe to start back up in 6-10 weeks after my PCT is completed which was 5 weeks?

2) I was wondering if on my next cycle if I should stack a HCG so that my boys don't totally shut down, or does it really matter?

3) I've also considered stacking Proviron with the Sus250 since it has little to no side effects and i've read Sus250 and Proviron work well together? Any other suggestions?

Is it possible to get up to size using 500ml/week + proviron and once at that size, stay on Sus250 only but at a maintenance dose of 250ml like what a doctor would prescribe sort of thing?

When I am not on test I walk around at 170lb and no matter how much or how hard I train and or eat is a huge challenge to gain and retain. I've heard of men over 35 staying on Sus250 indefinitely on more of a maintenance dose around 250 ml.

**ScotchGuard02** · 08-31-2017, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by treNils

Wanted to say hello and introduce myself. I've been a follower of this site for years now and have always found everyone on this site, well most everyone, extremely knowledgeable and trustworthy. I'm 38, 6'1", lean, ectomorph and am a hard gainer. I live and train in Colorado mainly for Elk Hunting. Been fit but small and skinny for my whole life. In the last couple years I have decided to step up and handle it like a man. I've done two cycles so far, first one was 6 weeks of Prop a few years ago. It was my first cycle and was unable to hold onto my gains as I was very new. It was a pain in ass having to pin every other day. More recently, I just completed a 13 week Sus250 cycle. Once a week pins is much easier. I did just the Sus250 alone and didn't stack. I was pinning 300 ml every 7 days. Went from 165 to 185lb and when I finished my BF was 10.3%. I got fairly good results but didn't get as big as I wanted to, which is why I am here. I was good on my diet, I was hitting my numbers of protein, fat and carb intake but definitely would like to increase my knowledge base before I start another cycle.

I'm currently working through my PCT stage and feel like I am shrinking. Currently 4 weeks into my PCT and holding at 177 lbs and BF 9.1%. I plan on completing my PCT cycle and then waiting about 6-10 weeks before starting up again. If you've just run a 13 wk cycle + 4 wks PCT, you should wait at least 17 wks to 20 wks before you run your next cycle.

I was hoping to get some insight on some possible scenarios for my next cycle. I plan on doing 500 ml from beginning to end on my next cycle and am considering stacking to maximize my efforts. Any other hard gainers over 30 out there that have some insight would be greatly appreciated as well as anyone else that has info. Gaining weight normally isn't a problem. Hanging onto those gains is the real issue. What you eat is going to be a huge factor on how much gains you will keep. If your TDEE is 3000 cals, you need to eat 4000cals to gain weight. If you eat 3000cals again after your cycle, then you're going to go back to your original size. If you want to be a big man, you have to eat like a big man.

Couple questions...

1) Given that I was only pinning 300ml/week is it safe to start back up in 6-10 weeks after my PCT is completed which was 5 weeks? No, start a new cycle after you rest.

2) I was wondering if on my next cycle if I should stack a HCG so that my boys don't totally shut down, or does it really matter? You should always run HCG during a cycle.

3) I've also considered stacking Proviron with the Sus250 since it has little to no side effects and i've read Sus250 and Proviron work well together? Any other suggestions? If you want to put on weight, have you looked at Deca+Test cycle? Run Deca and Test Cyp for 12 to 14 wks. Rest 2 weeks, then start your 4 week PCT.

Is it possible to get up to size using 500ml/week + proviron and once at that size, stay on Sus250 only but at a maintenance dose of 250ml like what a doctor would prescribe sort of thing? 500mg/wk of Test Cyp is a pretty smooth cycle. You can add proviron of Deca to the Test.

When I am not on test I walk around at 170lb and no matter how much or how hard I train and or eat is a huge challenge to gain and retain. I've heard of men over 35 staying on Sus250 indefinitely on more of a maintenance dose around 250 ml.

You are talking about Testosterone Replacement Therapy. Once your start, you'll be on it until you die. I'm on TRT but I'm older. You're a young man, you should try to stay off of TRT until your natural level of Test drops.

**charger69** · 08-31-2017, 04:17 PM

Scotch has it covered, however I would like to clarify #1. Time off = time on +PCT
If you were on for 10 weeks, waited 2 weeks for PCT and ran PCT for 4 weeks then you should not cycle for 16 weeks.
Also, taking the sust only once a week may have affected your results. I am a firm believer of trying to keep the hormone levels stable through more frequent injections ( same total mg /week). I especially see a difference when on tren and the sides (or lack thereof) by keeping the levels stable.

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**PT1982** · 08-31-2017, 09:42 PM

Dont consider Hcg a part of a "stack". Its a very important supplement. Ectos=light eaters. Scotch covered all the bases.

**MuscleScience** · 08-31-2017, 10:01 PM

Same as above, and actually if you gained that much and kept BF relatively low
You had a damn good cycle. What's your weight and lifts like now?

**treNils** · 09-10-2017, 12:22 PM

So my weight now has gone down unfortunately... I'm now at 172 lbs. which is back to around where I started. I am itching to get back on test but really want to hold onto more of my gains. I am in my last week of my PCT and wanted to know when I can go back on cycle?

Also, given that I am such a hard gainer, what do other hard gainers do to retain their gains while bridging cycles?

As always, thanks for you advice and guidance everyone.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 09-11-2017, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by treNils

So my weight now has gone down unfortunately... I'm now at 172 lbs. which is back to around where I started. I am itching to get back on test but really want to hold onto more of my gains. I am in my last week of my PCT and wanted to know when I can go back on cycle? as above... around 4 months after PCT

Also, given that I am such a hard gainer, what do other hard gainers do to retain their gains while bridging cycles? eat more food and keep training

As always, thanks for you advice and guidance everyone.

my guess is you didn't use an AI... if so, most of your 20lb gain was just water.
You should've used an AI.

also, sust should be pinned at least twice a week if not EOD... once a week is not a good pinning schedule.

**treNils** · 09-11-2017, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

my guess is you didn't use an AI... if so, most of your 20lb gain was just water.
You should've used an AI.

also, sust should be pinned at least twice a week if not EOD... once a week is not a good pinning schedule.

From what I read, Sustanon is long ester and should be pinned once a week as it is a blend of 4 other testosterones. Are you saying that if I was wanting to do 500ml/week I should pin 250ml every 3 days?

Also, what is a good AI that works well with Sus250?