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Thread: Proposed lean bulk cycle feedback

  1. #1
    IronClydes's Avatar
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    Proposed lean bulk cycle feedback

    Hey all.

    I am trying to use what I have in my stock, before it goes to waste, and to avoid buying others when I have stock already.

    Iím looking to start a lean bulk soon and this is what I have in stock:

    Testosterone Cyp
    Tren Ace
    Tren E
    Boldenone (EQ)

    I prefer to keep the Tren no higher than 50 EOD. So, can EQ be added to the stack? And, is there a benefit in mixing the Tren esters in a given cycle? If not, is one more ideal than the other for a lean bulk?

    And for reference, Iíve got about 4-5 years of cycling experience with Tren, Deca , Test, EQ, and various orals. Iíd consider myself an intermediate user who prefers moderate dosing.

    Thanks


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    Last edited by IronClydes; 08-04-2018 at 04:12 AM.

  2. #2
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    Tren cyp, huh? Never heard of it lol. But I'm honestly not a fan of tren in long ester form. I much prefer acetate and no I wouldn't mix them. Much better to have full control over how much tren is in your system at a time with tren ace IMO.

    Eq is great for cutting AND bulking depending on how you eat and train. Same goes for every steroid no that I'm thinking about it! So the compounds are less of a factor than your diet and training in terms of whether you're bulking or cutting. Eq has my vote over deca any day of the week, though, so I like Eq for bulking.

    I would honestly do a nice long 16 week bulking cycle with just test and eq, and leave the tren for your next cut as adding tren will likely increase your calorie demand so high that it'll turn your cycle into more of a recomp. It's very difficult to bulk on tren.

    I would also add proviron to help free up more test and help buffer estrogen. You'll still wanna run an AI but you'll be able to run less of your AI (let's say about .25 eod) and with 50-75mg of proviron you'll be sitting pretty. It will also act like a minor kick starter to get things moving in the first few weeks without causing a ton of bloating and water retention like a traditional kick start oral would cause...That is a personal pref so take or leave it, but I feel like it's added a lot to my regimen so feel free to try it out as it will keep you dryer and harder though out cycle.

    So that's my take on it. Just test and eq with proviron through out the entire cycle. Leave the tren for a cutting cycle.
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    I assume you ment tren e? Regardless, I'm currently mixing it with tren a, I like it. I wouldn't add eq, may have some thick blood issues running it with tren.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    Tren cyp, huh? Never heard of it lol. But I'm honestly not a fan of tren in long ester form. I much prefer acetate and no I wouldn't mix them. Much better to have full control over how much tren is in your system at a time with tren ace IMO.

    Eq is great for cutting AND bulking depending on how you eat and train. Same goes for every steroid no that I'm thinking about it! So the compounds are less of a factor than your diet and training in terms of whether you're bulking or cutting. Eq has my vote over deca any day of the week, though, so I like Eq for bulking.

    I would honestly do a nice long 16 week bulking cycle with just test and eq, and leave the tren for your next cut as adding tren will likely increase your calorie demand so high that it'll turn your cycle into more of a recomp. It's very difficult to bulk on tren.

    I would also add proviron to help free up more test and help buffer estrogen. You'll still wanna run an AI but you'll be able to run less of your AI (let's say about .25 eod) and with 50-75mg of proviron you'll be sitting pretty. It will also act like a minor kick starter to get things moving in the first few weeks without causing a ton of bloating and water retention like a traditional kick start oral would cause...That is a personal pref so take or leave it, but I feel like it's added a lot to my regimen so feel free to try it out as it will keep you dryer and harder though out cycle.

    So that's my take on it. Just test and eq with proviron through out the entire cycle. Leave the tren for a cutting cycle.
    I bulk very well with tren. Tren actually requires less calories because it makes you more efficient at processing what you eat.
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  5. #5
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    And you prefer eq over deca for bulking?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    Tren cyp, huh? Never heard of it lol. But I'm honestly not a fan of tren in long ester form. I much prefer acetate and no I wouldn't mix them. Much better to have full control over how much tren is in your system at a time with tren ace IMO.

    Eq is great for cutting AND bulking depending on how you eat and train. Same goes for every steroid no that I'm thinking about it! So the compounds are less of a factor than your diet and training in terms of whether you're bulking or cutting. Eq has my vote over deca any day of the week, though, so I like Eq for bulking.

    I would honestly do a nice long 16 week bulking cycle with just test and eq, and leave the tren for your next cut as adding tren will likely increase your calorie demand so high that it'll turn your cycle into more of a recomp. It's very difficult to bulk on tren.

    I would also add proviron to help free up more test and help buffer estrogen. You'll still wanna run an AI but you'll be able to run less of your AI (let's say about .25 eod) and with 50-75mg of proviron you'll be sitting pretty. It will also act like a minor kick starter to get things moving in the first few weeks without causing a ton of bloating and water retention like a traditional kick start oral would cause...That is a personal pref so take or leave it, but I feel like it's added a lot to my regimen so feel free to try it out as it will keep you dryer and harder though out cycle.

    So that's my take on it. Just test and eq with proviron through out the entire cycle. Leave the tren for a cutting cycle.
    Thanks!


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarzan View Post
    I assume you ment tren e? Regardless, I'm currently mixing it with tren a, I like it. I wouldn't add eq, may have some thick blood issues running it with tren.
    Yes, Tren E, my bad Correcting now.


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  8. #8
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    Okay, and if I were to start from scratch, and make a new order?

    Whatís an ideal lean bulk, with low sides, for someone having 4 years experience with cycles in Tren , Deca , Test, EQ, NPP, and not in favor of orals?

    AAS and ideal dosage for low sides, solid results?

    For background, 218 pounds, about 10-12% BF, 6 foot. Attachment 173799


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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarzan View Post
    And you prefer eq over deca for bulking?
    Absolutely. You prob haven't seen what I've been dealing with since running Deca lol. Eq is just a much less complicated substance with less potential issues. Deca causes all kinds of problems and for what? Yes, it may be a bit better as a bulking compound than EQ in terms of shear weight gain, but one will not experience 19nor sides along with th puffiness deca causes. On paper it is a better bulking compound than EQ, but in practical application I prefer EQ.
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarzan View Post
    I bulk very well with tren. Tren actually requires less calories because it makes you more efficient at processing what you eat.
    You're correct in that it does increase feed efficacy which one would think translates to "eat less and gain more" but it's not that simple. Although, yes, more of what you eat is used to increase lean body mass, the drug is also having an effect on your entire metabolism and for most people that equates to getting leaner and losing weight on tren if they're eating at maintenance. If you increase your cals enough then of course you can bulk on tren as with any compound. I'm just saying it's more difficult to bulk on tren when eating a clean diet.
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    I cant agree with that. Just personal opinion, eq is a waste of time and money. Yeah im sure it does somethin for some guys, but not a primary option for bulking, and not over alot of other compounds.

    And ive always found to bulk with tren and to control your bulk with deca , you control your test volume. May just be personal experience, ive told a few guys the same and seemed to work similar for them- regardless of diet you can cut or bulk on either. Ive barely bulked on deca with a surplus, and barely cut on it in a deficit, based on the amount of test i was taking.

    I actually think its easier to bulk on either with a clean diet- increase test, eat clean, gain size, and muscle mass more than water retention. Alot of guys use their diet to bulk with deca, and end up doing a dirty bulk, wherever that term came from, and end up bloated mess. Then blame the drug. Or cant put on enough weight and blame the drug.
    I have to eat much cleaner when on deca then anything else. Otherwise you put on too much unnecessary weight. Try deca and using test to determine the amount of your bulk on a super clean diet, and you will significantly different results than previous experiments.
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    Alot of guys cant handle certain drugs with certain sides, i get it. And i know you arent a fan of orals. I just prefer anadrol as a mild bulker over alot of others.

    Having said that, for what you are looking to work with, i would suggest a simple run of npp and test. Set your npp dose based on how you have felt and how it worked for you, then use your test as your variable to bulk with. Once u start npp, dont adjust dosage, keep it the same throughout. Use your test and adjust that dosage based on results you are getting.
    Ex start npp at 400mg per wk, test at 500mg per wk. After a few wks, if you want more bulk, keep diet and nop same, add another 100mg of test. If you want a bit less, drop test by 100mg per wk. Its a bit slower of a process than blasting a ton of npp or deca , but also doesnt add quite so much water.

    When i do my deca bulk, depending on how active i am at the time, how clean my diet realistically is, i usually run my deca at either 500 or 600 per wk throughout, then adjust my test between maybe 400- 700 or 800 sometimes to get me the results im lookking for. Sometimes ill run my test at 700 for a while, then drop my test to 400 for the last 4 wks. But i dont adjust my other compounds. Maybe it works for you, maybe not. Easy set up and worth a try
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyboy51577 View Post
    Alot of guys cant handle certain drugs with certain sides, i get it. And i know you arent a fan of orals. I just prefer anadrol as a mild bulker over alot of others.

    Having said that, for what you are looking to work with, i would suggest a simple run of npp and test. Set your npp dose based on how you have felt and how it worked for you, then use your test as your variable to bulk with. Once u start npp, dont adjust dosage, keep it the same throughout. Use your test and adjust that dosage based on results you are getting.
    Ex start npp at 400mg per wk, test at 500mg per wk. After a few wks, if you want more bulk, keep diet and nop same, add another 100mg of test. If you want a bit less, drop test by 100mg per wk. Its a bit slower of a process than blasting a ton of npp or deca , but also doesnt add quite so much water.

    When i do my deca bulk, depending on how active i am at the time, how clean my diet realistically is, i usually run my deca at either 500 or 600 per wk throughout, then adjust my test between maybe 400- 700 or 800 sometimes to get me the results im lookking for. Sometimes ill run my test at 700 for a while, then drop my test to 400 for the last 4 wks. But i dont adjust my other compounds. Maybe it works for you, maybe not. Easy set up and worth a try
    Thanks Danny. I appreciate all of your time and advice!

    I like your Deca cycle example; what would your Tren cycle look like, using the same approach?


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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClydes View Post
    Thanks Danny. I appreciate all of your time and advice!

    I like your Deca cycle example; what would your Tren cycle look like, using the same approach?


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    Honestly that would probably be a better question for guitarzan- he is better versed in the ways of tren- ive never been a tren guy- used every other combo under the sun-so im actually just getting ready to start my first tren run ever, in the next couple days.

    I would guess that i probably wouldnt use tren to bulk, only because im more of a test deca, npp, anadrol fan when it comes to bulking but i know Guitar has been around the block alot of different ways with it and would have better real world advice for ya
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    Tren alone ( clearly I mean with test ) is hard to beat for either bulking or cutting. Tren is the most efficient steroid known.
    If you tolerate it, you canít do better than it. There is little to no need to stack it with anything other than testosterone as nothing can out perform it.
    Any steroid you choose to stack with tren is mostly for its other qualities, such as anti estrogen, joint protection etc etc. My opinion anyway.
    Last edited by Aussie79; 08-09-2018 at 09:20 AM. Reason: Spelling

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    Thank you for all of the feedback Brothers.

    When I start this LEAN bulk, with the Tren and rest for example, how much of a caloric increase would you recommend? 3-500?


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    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    My best cycle was with Tren and TRT Test following Marcus diet prime prior to the cycle starting. There's no cookie cutter answer to your diet question as everyone is different. It's also dependent on training intensity and amount of cardio. Some people are also carb sensitive, some respond well to Keto. When it comes to nutrition, you really have to connect with your body and track as many variables as you can to get the best sense of what works for you.

    Keeping a training log, using the mirror, taking progress pictures, and taking measurements is way more beneficial that a single number from a scale.
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    Dunno how much of what you have...

    I would frontload the tren E eith tren A, shooting for whatever you think is best per week, and keep the test higher than the tren dosage.

    I would use the eq to oil something squeaky around the house or run it at what you normally would.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClydes View Post
    Hey all.

    I am trying to use what I have in my stock, before it goes to waste, and to avoid buying others when I have stock already.

    I’m looking to start a lean bulk soon and this is what I have in stock:

    Testosterone Cyp
    Tren Ace
    Tren E
    Boldenone (EQ)

    I prefer to keep the Tren no higher than 50 EOD. So, can EQ be added to the stack? And, is there a benefit in mixing the Tren esters in a given cycle? If not, is one more ideal than the other for a lean bulk?

    And for reference, I’ve got about 4-5 years of cycling experience with Tren, Deca , Test, EQ, and various orals. I’d consider myself an intermediate user who prefers moderate dosing.

    Thanks


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    Some people can bulk well on tren, personally it makes me very acidic and kills my appetite.

    As alpha said, save it for you next recomp/cut. With regards to mixing the two estrers, personally if I ever run a long ester in this case tren E I would use the A to kick start the cycle up until the E kicks in.. using the two to get your gram for gram gear intake up to where it needs to be is pointless IMO. Personally, Tren E isn’t my cuppa, prefer A. Just my preference.

    As you want to bulk id take advantage of the test, EQ and get some dbol if you can. A 12-14 weeker… recover (assuming your PCT and not TRT) BW, break then cut/recomp with the tren. Kick start with the A until the E kicks, combined with strong diet and training plan of course...
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    My best cycle was with Tren and TRT Test following Marcus diet prime prior to the cycle starting. There's no cookie cutter answer to your diet question as everyone is different. It's also dependent on training intensity and amount of cardio. Some people are also carb sensitive, some respond well to Keto. When it comes to nutrition, you really have to connect with your body and track as many variables as you can to get the best sense of what works for you.

    Keeping a training log, using the mirror, taking progress pictures, and taking measurements is way more beneficial that a single number from a scale.
    Thanks Windex. I was considering his prime Thai time around! Can you send me a shortcut to how itís laid out, or re-state for me?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Some people can bulk well on tren , personally it makes me very acidic and kills my appetite.

    As alpha said, save it for you next recomp/cut. With regards to mixing the two estrers, personally if I ever run a long ester in this case tren E I would use the A to kick start the cycle up until the E kicks in.. using the two to get your gram for gram gear intake up to where it needs to be is pointless IMO. Personally, Tren E isnít my cuppa, prefer A. Just my preference.

    As you want to bulk id take advantage of the test, EQ and get some dbol if you can. A 12-14 weekerÖ recover (assuming your PCT and not TRT) BW, break then cut/recomp with the tren. Kick start with the A until the E kicks, combined with strong diet and training plan of course...
    Make sense!


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  22. #22
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClydes View Post
    Thanks Windex. I was considering his prime Thai time around! Can you send me a shortcut to how it’s laid out, or re-state for me?


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    This is the thread:

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...e-cycling.html

    Below is the way I did it:

    Example:

    Lets say my Macros at maintenance was 2500 cal with 240g P / 70g F / 228g C

    [Pre-Cycle]:

    Week 0 : High Carb days: 228g C, Low Carb days ~135g Carbs, replace missing calories with Protein. Stay at 2500 calories.
    Week 1: High Carb days 265g, Low Carb Days ~160g, replace Missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2650
    Week 2: High Carb days 290g, Low Carb Days ~174g, replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2750
    Week 3: High Carb days 315g, Low carb days ~189g, replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2850
    Week 4: High Carb days 340g, Low Carb days ~204g. Replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2950

    [Cycle Starts here]
    Week 5-X

    I kept my TRT at 150mg/week with Tren Ace at 350mg/Week (50mg ED) and on high carb days I pinned 50mg Test Suspension ~1.5 hours Preworkout. If you do something similar my advice to save yourself a big headache is pre-plan how you are going to meal prep for the prime and write down all the food changes in a spreadsheet or journal of some sorts (for example if you are adding 1/4th Cup of rice to add more carbs or whatever the case may be). I regret not doing that as it would have saved me a lot time rather than trying to plan 1 week at a time with macros changing. For my training, everything was to maximum failure - either drop sets, supersets, assisted negatives, and reduced rest time. I didn't have a training partner but rotated between a couple of guys that always trained at the same time as me in lieu of not having a dedicated partner.
    Last edited by Windex; 08-17-2018 at 08:18 PM. Reason: added info
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    This is the thread:

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...e-cycling.html

    Below is the way I did it:

    Example:

    Lets say my Macros at maintenance was 2500 cal with 240g P / 70g F / 228g C

    [Pre-Cycle]:

    Week 0 : High Carb days: 228g C, Low Carb days ~135g Carbs, replace missing calories with Protein. Stay at 2500 calories.
    Week 1: High Carb days 265g, Low Carb Days ~160g, replace Missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2650
    Week 2: High Carb days 290g, Low Carb Days ~174g, replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2750
    Week 3: High Carb days 315g, Low carb days ~189g, replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2850
    Week 4: High Carb days 340g, Low Carb days ~204g. Replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2950

    [Cycle Starts here]
    Week 5-X

    I kept my TRT at 150mg/week with Tren Ace at 350mg/Week (50mg ED) and on high carb days I pinned 50mg Test Suspension ~1.5 hours Preworkout. If you do something similar my advice to save yourself a big headache is pre-plan how you are going to meal prep for the prime and write down all the food changes in a spreadsheet or journal of some sorts (for example if you are adding 1/4th Cup of rice to add more carbs or whatever the case may be). I regret not doing that as it would have saved me a lot time rather than trying to plan 1 week at a time with macros changing. For my training, everything was to maximum failure - either drop sets, supersets, assisted negatives, and reduced rest time. I didn't have a training partner but rotated between a couple of guys that always trained at the same time as me in lieu of not having a dedicated partner.
    Exactly what I needed. Thank you, Windex. I hadnít considered the test suspension. My plan with what I will have will revolve around Tren E around 250-350/week depending on sides (sleep), Dbol of 50/day as a kickstart, and TRT of about 150/week.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    This is the thread:

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...e-cycling.html

    Below is the way I did it:

    Example:

    Lets say my Macros at maintenance was 2500 cal with 240g P / 70g F / 228g C

    [Pre-Cycle]:

    Week 0 : High Carb days: 228g C, Low Carb days ~135g Carbs, replace missing calories with Protein. Stay at 2500 calories.
    Week 1: High Carb days 265g, Low Carb Days ~160g, replace Missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2650
    Week 2: High Carb days 290g, Low Carb Days ~174g, replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2750
    Week 3: High Carb days 315g, Low carb days ~189g, replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2850
    Week 4: High Carb days 340g, Low Carb days ~204g. Replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2950

    [Cycle Starts here]
    Week 5-X

    I kept my TRT at 150mg/week with Tren Ace at 350mg/Week (50mg ED) and on high carb days I pinned 50mg Test Suspension ~1.5 hours Preworkout. If you do something similar my advice to save yourself a big headache is pre-plan how you are going to meal prep for the prime and write down all the food changes in a spreadsheet or journal of some sorts (for example if you are adding 1/4th Cup of rice to add more carbs or whatever the case may be). I regret not doing that as it would have saved me a lot time rather than trying to plan 1 week at a time with macros changing. For my training, everything was to maximum failure - either drop sets, supersets, assisted negatives, and reduced rest time. I didn't have a training partner but rotated between a couple of guys that always trained at the same time as me in lieu of not having a dedicated partner.
    And, once you started the cycle, just a regular daily diet with a moderate surplus? No more carb cycling I hope? Lol I donít want to do that the whole time...too much thinking


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  25. #25
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    If you or anyone hate the deca sides you should try out MENT aka Trestolone Acetate, if you can find it.
    I really like it, it provides the results of deca in no time.

  26. #26
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClydes View Post
    And, once you started the cycle, just a regular daily diet with a moderate surplus? No more carb cycling I hope? Lol I don’t want to do that the whole time...too much thinking


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    You could continue to carb cycle or switch to a more traditional cookie cutter nutrition program. Going the pre-planning route either way saves you from having to think, just requires an afternoon of time and a calculator. It's really going to depend on your body since everyone is different. I don't know if the way I did it was the "correct" way but I knew by then how (1) my body handles Tren and (2) how I respond to carbs and used that information to tailor the program for myself as best as I could.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    This is the thread:

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...e-cycling.html

    Below is the way I did it:

    Example:

    Lets say my Macros at maintenance was 2500 cal with 240g P / 70g F / 228g C

    [Pre-Cycle]:

    Week 0 : High Carb days: 228g C, Low Carb days ~135g Carbs, replace missing calories with Protein. Stay at 2500 calories.
    Week 1: High Carb days 265g, Low Carb Days ~160g, replace Missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2650
    Week 2: High Carb days 290g, Low Carb Days ~174g, replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2750
    Week 3: High Carb days 315g, Low carb days ~189g, replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2850
    Week 4: High Carb days 340g, Low Carb days ~204g. Replace missing calories with Protein. New caloric total is 2950

    [Cycle Starts here]
    Week 5-X

    I kept my TRT at 150mg/week with Tren Ace at 350mg/Week (50mg ED) and on high carb days I pinned 50mg Test Suspension ~1.5 hours Preworkout. If you do something similar my advice to save yourself a big headache is pre-plan how you are going to meal prep for the prime and write down all the food changes in a spreadsheet or journal of some sorts (for example if you are adding 1/4th Cup of rice to add more carbs or whatever the case may be). I regret not doing that as it would have saved me a lot time rather than trying to plan 1 week at a time with macros changing. For my training, everything was to maximum failure - either drop sets, supersets, assisted negatives, and reduced rest time. I didn't have a training partner but rotated between a couple of guys that always trained at the same time as me in lieu of not having a dedicated partner.
    So looking at Marcus Priming guidance, it reads that you rotate 3 low carb days (40% lower) and 1 high carb day (15% higher) with the goal of lowering carbs gradually up to the cycle start. However, you appear to be raising them gradually?


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  28. #28
    IronClydes's Avatar
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    This is the way it reads to me:

    Iím starting my lean bulk in just over 6 weeks. I plan to run Tren E @ about 300/week, Dbol kickstart for first 4 weeks @ 50/day, with TRT dosed testosterone .

    Iím planning to start my prime this week. To ensure I have it correct:

    Normal maintenance of about:
    2700 calories:
    305 carb
    250 protein
    60 fat.

    So, this would be:

    3 Low days:
    2300 calories
    185 carb
    60 fat
    270 pro (moderate increase)

    1 Low day:
    3020 calories
    350 carb
    60 fat
    270 protein (maintain the increase)

    Do this for 6 weeks and, at start of cycle, take my maintenance and add 3-500 calories in carbs to start a traditional bulk cycle, no more cycling.

    Last 5 days before cycle are all Low Carb days.

    Refeed/Cheat Days?


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  29. #29
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    Absolutely. You prob haven't seen what I've been dealing with since running Deca lol. Eq is just a much less complicated substance with less potential issues. Deca causes all kinds of problems and for what? Yes, it may be a bit better as a bulking compound than EQ in terms of shear weight gain, but one will not experience 19nor sides along with th puffiness deca causes. On paper it is a better bulking compound than EQ, but in practical application I prefer EQ.

    What dose of EQ works for you?
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  30. #30
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClydes View Post
    This is the way it reads to me:

    I’m starting my lean bulk in just over 6 weeks. I plan to run Tren E @ about 300/week, Dbol kickstart for first 4 weeks @ 50/day, with TRT dosed testosterone .

    I’m planning to start my prime this week. To ensure I have it correct:

    Normal maintenance of about:
    2700 calories:
    305 carb
    250 protein
    60 fat.

    So, this would be:

    3 Low days:
    2300 calories
    185 carb
    60 fat
    270 pro (moderate increase)

    1 Low day:
    3020 calories
    350 carb
    60 fat
    270 protein (maintain the increase)

    Do this for 6 weeks and, at start of cycle, take my maintenance and add 3-500 calories in carbs to start a traditional bulk cycle, no more cycling.

    Last 5 days before cycle are all Low Carb days.

    Refeed/Cheat Days?


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    I'm assuming you mean 1 high day not 1 low day ? My understanding is when pruning to bulk to not let calories drop below maintainer and when you drop carbs replace by same number of protein (since both carbs and pro have 4cal per 1gram). But I may be mistaken

    That plan is one way to do it. I gradually increased my carbs because I'm fairly carb sensitive and gain weight just by staring at food for too long.

    I prefer a refeed meal over a cheat day/meal on cycle. When I think of cheat meal I think hamburger, pizza, ice cream etc - all of which have high fats and a bad ratio of carbs:fat.

    My refeed meals typically involve substituting a one chicken meal for ribeye steak. Then i'll add more rice, or keep rice the same+add potato.

  31. #31
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    My biggest takeaway from the cycle moreso than just the results was realizing how truly important training and nutrition is, understanding how to shock the muscle for growth, and adding the prime as a tool.

    I had cycled prior to that with 200mg of Test and 500mg Tren . My results were half as good with 30% more gear.

  32. #32
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    Dunno how much of what you have...

    I would frontload the tren E eith tren A, shooting for whatever you think is best per week, and keep the test higher than the tren dosage.

    I would use the eq to oil something squeaky around the house or run it at what you normally would.
    What has been your experience with frontloading Tren ? Always wanted to try it.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    I'm assuming you mean 1 high day not 1 low day ? My understanding is when pruning to bulk to not let calories drop below maintainer and when you drop carbs replace by same number of protein (since both carbs and pro have 4cal per 1gram). But I may be mistaken

    That plan is one way to do it. I gradually increased my carbs because I'm fairly carb sensitive and gain weight just by staring at food for too long.

    I prefer a refeed meal over a cheat day/meal on cycle. When I think of cheat meal I think hamburger, pizza, ice cream etc - all of which have high fats and a bad ratio of carbs:fat.

    My refeed meals typically involve substituting a one chicken meal for ribeye steak. Then i'll add more rice, or keep rice the same+add potato.
    Thank you for clarifying, Windex.

    Yes, I meant 1 High Day.

    I share the same sensitivity to carbs.

    My take is that the increase in carbs on the high day offsets some of the caloric loss in the low day. The net weekly caloric deficit for me is about 1100 calories in this layout.

    I previously reached out to Marcus and asked about this in reference to using the prime to cut fat. He advised to increase protein slightly, to protect/feed the muscle, but to maintain the slight deficit. Perhaps he said this because I was cutting; but then again, he doesnít typically advocate going below maintenance except for in the prime.


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  34. #34
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    Bump for prime feedback


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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    What dose of EQ works for you?
    600mg is a solid dose for me and gives me nice fullness and size. The best part about bulking on EQ is the appetite increase! With tren it's the exact opposite for most people. I actually handle tren sides very well and my advice wasn't really based on sides, although it is a factor. I just think long term it's better to run less harmful compounds and let our diet and training do the rest of the work.

    Also, when I'm lean EQ does give the muscles a great look. It sounds silly but EQ is predominantly given to race horses and not for nothing but those horses look amazing in terms of musculature and vascularity and that's from the EQ.

    Yes, tren is overall the most effective steroid for any purpose (except when trying to increase cardiac output for endurance sports) but for body building it's hard to debate tren not being the best. HOWEVER, what I'm saying is that EQ is underrated because I exp no sides on it (have to keep crit in check) but no acne, no sexual sides, no borderline rapey thoughts when around females lol, so it's just a smoother substance overall IMO plus for bulking I prefer it due to a noticeably increased appetite. Thanks for asking Kel maybe some new guys will benefit from this info and not run straight to tren cause of its rep.

    Don't get me wrong I love tren but in the grand scheme of things after having experience with other compounds I feel tren is best used pre-contest for the last 6-8 weeks at a moderately high dose but not for an extended period of time like when running a bulking cycle. For that I think it's def healthier but also very effective to run a compound like EQ or Deca (or its shorter ester counterpart NPP) but 19nors come with all kinds of sides namely sexual sides and my attitude is why put yourself through that when there are other routes..? Pre-contest is one thing, but longer bulking cycles is another.
    Last edited by AlphaMindz; 08-23-2018 at 02:43 PM.
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  36. #36
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    Thanks Alpha. Nice to hear a positive report on EQ as most seem to be predominantly negative.
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  37. #37
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    Proposed lean bulk cycle feedback

    Okay, Iím due to start my cycle in about 7 days and Iíve decided it might be best to make some changes to short esters in lieu of a number of possible upcoming blood tests at work. They are always possible in my profession, and highly unlikely they will test for AAS other than testosterone levels . To err on the safe side, however, Iím looking at the following:

    50 Tren A EOD
    100 Test Prop EOD
    120 Test Cyp EW (maintain TRT dosing)
    50 Dbol ED (25 1-2 hours preworkout, 25 after with food)
    25 Adex EOD

    All will be for 8 weeks except the Dbol at the first 4 weeks.

    Would you change this stack at all?


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    Last edited by IronClydes; 10-15-2018 at 01:35 PM.

  38. #38
    Kay kay is offline Associate Member
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    Test tren EQ is my favourite stack, hands down. I’m usually an advocate of average doses, but I am a firm believer of high dose EQ. If you want tren as low as 50mg eod, then that’s fine. Run your test at a respectable dosage, perhaps 600-800, and I strongly suggest the EQ at 1200mg plus.

    I think the following would look great:

    50mg tren eod
    100mg test eod
    1200-1500mg Boldenone per week
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  39. #39
    Kay kay is offline Associate Member
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    Your purposed cycle looks fine. You know what you’re doing.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay kay View Post
    Your purposed cycle looks fine. You know what youíre doing.
    Thank you


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