PCT, offseason cycle.

Hey guys, few questions.

I’m coming to the ladder portion of my first cycle. I’m in competition prep right now, the cycle is Test CYP (500mg/week), clen (2 weeks on, 2 off) winstrol (50mg/day), AI, I absolutely love it.

But questions, I’m looking into doing nolva + clomid as my PCT. Would you guys stack anything along with it? Change anything? Stats are below.

Also, would love to see suggestions/comments on a 2nd cycle (for offseason or early contest prep next season). After I run the PCT for 8 weeks (getting blood work done) then stay off everything for 4-8 weeks (getting blood work done again). By that time I might even be back into competition prep.

Any feedback would be great. Thanks.

Stats:
5’7
170lbs (currently but dropping due to prep)
22 y/o
BF: unknown, getting dexa scan done next weekend.
Physique competitior

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssmitty2015

Hey guys, few questions.

I’m coming to the ladder portion of my first cycle. I’m in competition prep right now, the cycle is Test CYP (500mg/week), clen (2 weeks on, 2 off) winstrol (50mg/day), AI, I absolutely love it.

But questions, I’m looking into doing nolva + clomid as my PCT. Would you guys stack anything along with it? Change anything? Stats are below.

Also, would love to see suggestions/comments on a 2nd cycle (for offseason or early contest prep next season). After I run the PCT for 8 weeks (getting blood work done) then stay off everything for 4-8 weeks (getting blood work done again). By that time I might even be back into competition prep.

Any feedback would be great. Thanks.

Stats:
5’7
170lbs (currently but dropping due to prep)
22 y/o
BF: unknown, getting dexa scan done next weekend.
Physique competitior

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You are already taking a risk by cycling when your body is not finished developing and being young.

Blood work during PCT is not beneficial unless there are side effects to address.

Waiting 4-8 weeks before cycling again, quite frankly is stupid. The rule of thumb is time on + pct = time off.

There is no point in thinking about a second cycle when you haven't even finished the first one and you have no idea how you will recover or if there are yet to be any side effects. You already made a mistake the first time by running more than just test and being young - thinking ahead to another cycle will have you making even more mistakes.

Not know your body fat is typically a red flag you don't know how to feed your body. The generic young kid answer of saying " I eat clean, watch my calories, and eat cookie cutter bodybuilder food" is not enough.

If you actually want to win competitions and be successful you have a lot more education in front of you. Start by reading all the stickies and educational threads

welp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Windex

You are already taking a risk by cycling when your body is not finished developing and being young.

Blood work during PCT is not beneficial unless there are side effects to address.

Waiting 4-8 weeks before cycling again, quite frankly is stupid. The rule of thumb is time on + pct = time off.

There is no point in thinking about a second cycle when you haven't even finished the first one and you have no idea how you will recover or if there are yet to be any side effects. You already made a mistake the first time by running more than just test and being young - thinking ahead to another cycle will have you making even more mistakes.

Not know your body fat is typically a red flag you don't know how to feed your body. The generic young kid answer of saying " I eat clean, watch my calories, and eat cookie cutter bodybuilder food" is not enough.

If you actually want to win competitions and be successful you have a lot more education in front of you. Start by reading all the stickies and educational threads

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I don’t know my body fat because im 4 weeks out from my show and it’s constantly changing. I’m young, yes. But not stupid so I would appreciate not being called that. My body fat last time I checked (4 weeks ago) was at 9.5%. I haven’t got a new dexa scan done, so why would I want to give a false reading when I don’t know what it is. I eat in windows, I eat in time frames like every single competitor out there. Not just “a little boy who says he eats clean”, I work my ass off everyday, not just in the gym..but I do my homework too. I have won shows, so thanks again for making that assumption. Please do not make assumptions about something. I was just seeking advice.

Now, I appreciate the comment about being off 4-8 but its also hypocritical because you said my body might recover differently, so why would I follow a "rule of thumb". I will see how my body reacts and then go from there. I get my bloodwork done because I'd rather be safe than sorry, it does NO harm getting my bloodwork done.

I was really seeking what a general cycle after the first looks like.

I know I’m taking a risk, I know what I’m getting myself into, I know I’m young, I know it’s frowned upon being 22 almost 23, but I’m not an idiot though. Thanks for your kind suggestions and advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssmitty2015

I don’t know my body fat because im 4 weeks out from my show and it’s constantly changing. I’m young, yes. But not stupid so I would appreciate not being called that. My body fat last time I checked (4 weeks ago) was at 9.5%. I haven’t got a new dexa scan done, so why would I want to give a false reading when I don’t know what it is. I eat in windows, I eat in time frames like every single competitor out there. Not just “a little boy who says he eats clean”, I work my ass off everyday, not just in the gym..but I do my homework too. I have won shows, so thanks again for making that assumption. Please do not make assumptions about something. I was just seeking advice.

Now, I appreciate the comment about being off 4-8 but its also hypocritical because you said my body might recover differently, so why would I follow a "rule of thumb". I will see how my body reacts and then go from there. I get my bloodwork done because I'd rather be safe than sorry, it does NO harm getting my bloodwork done.

I was really seeking what a general cycle after the first looks like.

I know I’m taking a risk, I know what I’m getting myself into, I know I’m young, I know it’s frowned upon being 22 almost 23, but I’m not an idiot though. Thanks for your kind suggestions and advice.

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I didn't call you stupid - I said the idea of waiting 4-8 weeks before cycling is stupid.

There is nothing wrong with blood work - but it should be done precycle, during cycle, and 6-8 weeks after PCT. Doing blood work during PCT is going to give you artificial numbers and a false perception of where you are because it's the time when the body tries to recover.

Yes everyone's body reacts differently but a lot the science is black and white. The principle of waiting until after PCT gives a baseline of how the body has recovered. If you spent time understanding what Tamoxifen and Comidephene Citrate actually do the body you would realize why bloodwork during PCT is not beneficial and waiting to cycle is important. Additionally, you would understand that putting the body under harsh drugs then being clean for 4 weeks before cycling again would be more damaging than just inducing self TRT and staying on gear (I am not recommending doing that).

The first cycle should be Test only, then most people have a second cycle of Test + Oral, or Slightly higher test with the third as test + oral. You've skipped step 1 and 2 by going straight to Test Oral and Clen. That's the first problem with recommending a new cycle. The second problem is if your liver values come back very badly then it's an indication oral steroids aren't a smart choice. Again, this goes back to education being an important baseline.

You know what PCT drugs are but do you know how a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator works in the male body? Do you actually understand how the biology and pharmacology works? Have you ever spent an afternoon reading a medical journal where men took Nolva and Clomid?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Windex

I didn't call you stupid - I said the idea of waiting 4-8 weeks before cycling is stupid.

There is nothing wrong with blood work - but it should be done precycle, during cycle, and 6-8 weeks after PCT. Doing blood work during PCT is going to give you artificial numbers and a false perception of where you are because it's the time when the body tries to recover.

Yes everyone's body reacts differently but a lot the science is black and white. The principle of waiting until after PCT gives a baseline of how the body has recovered. If you spent time understanding what Tamoxifen and Comidephene Citrate actually do the body you would realize why bloodwork during PCT is not beneficial and waiting to cycle is important. Additionally, you would understand that putting the body under harsh drugs then being clean for 4 weeks before cycling again would be more damaging than just inducing self TRT and staying on gear (I am not recommending doing that).

The first cycle should be Test only, then most people have a second cycle of Test + Oral, or Slightly higher test with the third as test + oral. You've skipped step 1 and 2 by going straight to Test Oral and Clen. That's the first problem with recommending a new cycle. The second problem is if your liver values come back very badly then it's an indication oral steroids aren't a smart choice. Again, this goes back to education being an important baseline.

You know what PCT drugs are but do you know how a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator works in the male body? Do you actually understand how the biology and pharmacology works? Have you ever spent an afternoon reading a medical journal where men took Nolva and Clomid?

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Yes, I have actually gone to the university libraries researching these. I understand what I am doing.

I understand you are not recommending staying on gear, and I dont plan to do that.