Printable View
Hello.
I have a question about my upcoming cycle, Will this be a good bulking cycle (with good training & diet) < Test 500mg(1-6)-750mg(7-14) , Tren 400mg (1-12) , Masteron 400mg (1-12) , Dbol 50mg (1-6).
If not than please tell your best bulking cycles,
Thankyou !
I have no idea what your stats or your cycle history is . so I cannot say for "you" personally if this is a good cycle.
I will however say that the combination of , High dose Test, Dbol, with moderate dose Tren and Masteron, is a great choice of compounds for a bulk.
you have Test at 500mg the first 6 weeks while your running your Dbol . THEN you drop the Dbol at week 6 and up the Test dosage to make up for that, good thinking there!
but you may want to consider running the Dbol just a slight bit longer and tapering the dosage down after week 6. so instead of pulling it out all together , just drop the dosage down to 30mg for a couple more weeks.
if your NOT estrogen sensitive then I wouldn't mess with much or any AI's being size is your main goal . BUT I would run Nolva with this cycle at a minimum of 10mg per day (probably higher when on the Dbol). if you are concerned with Estrogen , then adding a very minimal dose of an AI while running the dbol on top of the nolva is fine
I dont want to hijack this thread but what is the theory behind tapering down the dbol for a couple of weeks? Im getting ready for a cycle including dbol.Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
I just copied this from one of my other postsQuote:
Originally Posted by Pmft
my "tapering method" for dbol is formulated to help guys acclimate to and keep their gains.. most guys run Dbol and blast it for 4 weeks and come off and they end up pissing all their gains away (literally piss them away, losing all that water weight). You need to get you body to adapt over a longer period of time so you can hold onto the water weight, which will help put on muscle .
example
week 1-4 - 50mg of Dbol
week 5-6 - 40mg of Dbol
week 7-8 - 30mg of Dbol
week 9-10 - 20mg of Dbol
Yes 10 weeks may be considered a long run of Dbol by some guys, but the dosage is coming down over time. the liver toxicity of 20mg of Dbol is not that high
basically the tapering method helps you sustain the gains that come from Dbol.. if you blow up 20 pounds but can't hold on to it , then whats the point. you need to acclimate to and 'own up' to those new gains.
Sounds interesting. Im running that with test and deca. I'll give it a go. ThanksSent from my LGL84VL using TapatalkQuote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
One thing I like about dbol, that I think alot of people overlook, is the strength gains you get. More strength equals better, more effective workouts, which I think can give you lasting effects, even after the water retention is gone. Your taper theory sounds like a good idea, strength gains for ten weeks!Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
In my experience, you'll be disappointed if you expect to gain any size with Tren. Tren is good for recomping, cutting but not bulking. Kills your appetite, you don't feel well, etc.
To bulk try: Testostorone, Nandrolone (Deca or NPP), Dianabol, Anadrol, Trestolone Acetate (aka MENT)
I beg to differ! High dose of test and a little tren, and I grow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerospace
agree with Guitarzan..
Tren is a great cutter when your dosage of test is low and your not running any wet compounds .
Tren is a great bulker when your test dosage is high, and you have higher levels of estrogen or running it with wet compounds.
And , saying that Tren makes you feel like shit and kills your appetite and therefore isn't a good bulker, YET Anadrol is a good bulker (when it makes you feel shitier and kills your appetite even faster). makes me think that someone who would say that has a zero real life experience running either one
A couple of you have talked about estrogen and bulking in this thread. Im on TRT and aim for my estrogen to be in the middle to lower end of the normal range.
Are you still trying to keep your estrogen in the same range or are you going a little higher for a bulk?Sent from my LGL84VL using TapatalkQuote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
IF your on medically prescribed TRT then the goal of your doc is to get all your ranges in 'normal' range. before you were prescribed you had levels 'outside of range'. the doc wanted to make you "normal" and have normal ranges just like every other guy with normal test production.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pmft
so your blood work should all be normal.
Test
Estrogen
Hemoglobin
IGF etc..
NOW . if your NOT trying to be 'normal' and your running test or a small cycle to try and put on some muscle and size, then you need to be in the 'optimal' or 'supra-physiological' ranges in your blood work. we don't grow by being normal.
Test levels - needs to be WAY above normal and off the charts
Estrogen - needs to be above normal and raised in ratio with the elevated test
Hemoglobin - will start to become elevated because thats what performance enhancement does
IGF - elevated as well.
So TRT , and Optimal performance have two completely different goals. just gotta decide if your on TRT , or if your running a cycle
If you’re an ectomorph, very lean, or want an all out mass bulk and don’t mind a couple %bf gain in order to get the maximum muscle gains, then try test, nandrolone decanoate (deca) and Dbol. This will give more gains then your purposes cycle in 95% of cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by zyzzraver17
If you want more of a lean bulk, to put on some lean muscle without much or any (or even dropping bf) fat gains, then stick with your current cycle.
My suggestion would be if you are already a big guy with good size (ie if 6 ft and under 15%bf and over 210-220) then I would run the tren cycle. If you’re not very big yet (or 6 feet 15%bf and 190lb) I would run the deca and get that size! That’s just my opinion take it for what it is. I have a lot of experience with all compounds we have discussed.
Keep in mind tren drastically reduces calories, you could do a “cut” at your maintenance calories, and will gain little if any weight at only 300 cals over maintenance. Adjust accordingly depending on cycle.
I’d suggest 500 or so over with deca, but 750 with plans to increase to 1000-1250 over with tren for a rough guide to bulking
I realize that test levels would be in supraphysiological range on cycle but I didnt know estrogen levels should be raised out of normal trt range on cycle. I thought thats why we use and AI?
Are you saying that if my test level is 3 times higher than normal then my estrogen level should be 3 times higher also?Sent from my LGL84VL using TapatalkQuote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
I've got a lot of threads and posts on this. but to clarify real quick. NO we do not run an AI to keep our E levels in normal TRT ranges on our cycle IF GROWTH is the ultimate goal of the cycle. if you want to grow and put on mass then yes estrogen levels need to come up and elevate along with your test levels . IF however you are 'cutting' for a contest and not trying to grow, and get super dry , then running an AI is a useful tool. but otherwise AI's hinder your growth and can negatively impact the benefits that come from E.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pmft
Guys like Jordan Peters, that went from 135 pounds in college , to over 300 pounds and super jacked now in his later 20s, did so by running AAS and not using AI's to stunt his growth (but did use a SERM to control negative effects of E)
If you ran a heavy cycle of Test, and you started that cycle out by running a very high dose of an AI from day one, and your androgen levels went up while your estrogen levels went down at the same time (this is opposite of how the body is supposed to work) , you would be in a hormonal mess and have tons of negative side effects.
I've seen guys starting there first cycle using an AI from day one and that right theres causing more side effects then running test solo.
give this a read
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...c-hormone.html
Im going to read all that and likely have some questions about my upcoming cycle. Ive tried really hard to keep my estradiol in the normal range on cycle in the past. Mabye all the past advice was wrong. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
In my experience, tren is awful for bulking/trying to gain size. Just recomping or cutting. Kills your appetite.
Bulk on these: Testosterone, Nandrolone (Deca/npp), Dianabol, Anadrol, Trestolone Acetate (MENT)
Good post. I believe the majority of people are misinformed about ai use.
So according to what I read, E2 should be around 90-120 pg/dl on cycle.
During my first cycle, I had mid-cycle labs done and my E2 was about that high so I was told in a forum to increase my AI dosage to bring it into the normal range so I did. Bad advice?
I was taking 500 mg/wk test cyp and my total test was about 2400 at 6 weeks. My AI dosage was .5mg EOD and I increased it to 1mg EOD to get into the normal range.
I'm gonna go back to the .5mg/EOD AI on this cycle and see how it goes. I'll also take caber .5mg E3D. I'll be running 600mg/wk test and 400mg/wk deca and 40-50 mg/day dbol and tapering it.
At what E2 level should a guy start worrying about the possibility of gyno or other side effects?Sent from my LGL84VL using TapatalkQuote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
Try no ai
not bad advice if you were having bad negative sides from estrogen or your cycle was set up as a cut and you were trying to get lean and dry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pmft
yes bad advice if you were doing just fine and your goal of the cycle was to grow and put on mass.
1mg EOD is way way too much unless you were in contest prep a few weeks out.. AI's can have more negative health consequences then the steroids your taking, so be carefulQuote:
I was taking 500 mg/wk test cyp and my total test was about 2400 at 6 weeks. My AI dosage was .5mg EOD and I increased it to 1mg EOD to get into the normal range.
you should run a low dose of a SERM like Nolva during your cycle and you don't have to worry about gyno. you likely won't need an AI either.Quote:
At what E2 level should a guy start worrying about the possibility of gyno or other side effects?
Nolva will block estrogen at the receptors you want them to be blocked, like breast and fat tissue, yet let your blood levels elevate so that estrogen receptors you don't want blocked will have plenty of E, like the liver so it can produce more HDL cholesterol and IGF1, and like muscle tissue. running a high dose of an AI will hinder and mitigate all the positive benefits of elevated estrogen while on cycle (ie, it will hinder your gains).
a SERM is a 'selective' estrogen receptor modulator. its 'selective' in nature and won't block all estrogen functions. an AI blocks/lowers estrogen all together from the start and thus limits estrogens anabolic and health benefits
I was bulking on my first cycle atQuote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
500mg/wk test. I wasn't having any negative sides from estrogen. My BP was getting a little high but I have Lisnopril for that now. I did have to get up several times a night to use the bathroom. I was hitting my 1 gallon water goal each day.
Ok, so let me get this all straight.
Wk 1-12. Cycle support
Wk 1-12. caber .5mg E3D
Wk 1-12. 600mg/wk test cyp.
Wk 1-12. 400mg/wk deca
Wk 1-4. 50mg/day dbol
Wk 5-6. 40mg/day dbol
Wk 7-8. 30mg/day dbol
Wk 9-10. 20mg/day dbol
Wk 1-?. Nolva 20mg/day??????
Wk 1-?. Anastrozole??????
No PCT needed
I did some reading on Nolva and 20mg seems about average. Not sure if that's correct and you advise not to run Anastrozole or should I keep that at the normal dosage of .5mg E3D?
Also, I will normally slowly taper down my Anastrozole after week 12 as my test levels lower. In this case I would taper the Nolva?
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
I’m new on here and I don’t know but I was told not to stack Dbol with deca because of water retention counter action. I know both are for bulking but do they cancel each other out a little?
Dbol and Deca together is one of the best combos for bulking that there is . whoever told you that is someone that is a 'fear monger' about water retention or is deathly afraid of feeling bloated.. water retention to a certain degree is part of the game , you need phases of it in order to get massive. if you want to stay dry and lean all year round you won't growQuote:
Originally Posted by KennyJ
Thanks. I know both cause water retention so I was not sure why he was telling me this.
well generally Deca doesn't even cause as much water retention as Test does.. so according to his theory you should not even run test and dbol togetherQuote:
Originally Posted by KennyJ
Water in muscles and high levels of estrogen associated with bloating from drugs like deca and Dbol are very beneficial for growth and not generally negative side effects. I wouldn’t stop them if I could.