Bulking with low test?

**Octaneforce** · 12-11-2018, 09:14 PM

All of my cycles id use high doses of test as my base. I love it, but it makes it very hard to be dry. Well, atleast i think thats why. I want to do a bulk this winter and was just gonna do test/npp/dbol again but despite the awesome mass that cycle gave me, i always felt bloated.
Im thinking something like test/mast/npp this time around. I have tons of dbol on hand if i decide i need a boost. I think the mast will help free up some test and provide synergy between the compounds. I know masteron isnt a bulker, but thats where my heads at for wanting to use it as a filler. I want to go HIGH dose and less time on. Heres what im thinking:

Test prop 300mg/week
Mast ace 700mg/week
Npp 600mg/week
10 week cycle

Is this silly logic?

**Friggnewtown** · 12-12-2018, 03:04 AM

Not sure if what I'm about to say makes sense but.

You say you want to try to stay dry and not bloated and in an essence not keep on as much water retention and water weight? Then later on your explaining how you don't mind jumping back in dbol if you feel like you need it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but any chance your addicted to the psychological effects of dbol? By that I mean how swoll it can make you look. With your said idea in my mind your setting yourself up for another dbol cycle. There is nothing wrong with that but it seems so.

Have you looked into anadrol ? You can't really bulk with it but high doses of Tbol? Which in all seriousness could just be really toxic. Perhaps a combination of your proposed cycle plus some heavy duty sarms ? I don't know these are just random ideas

**The God Himself** · 12-12-2018, 03:22 AM

No thats completely feasible.
I run my cycles with TRT dose test mostly, as I want to be dry and lean most of the time. If you want to build a lot of mass, then estrogenic compounds make sense.
Test is actually a hard compound to manage if you are estrogen sensitive. It converts to estrogen and DHT, and that is the cause of the side effects that most of people experience.
So, it makes sense to run low dose test with non-estrogenic steroids as your main compound. You can use EQ as filler drug instead of mast, it is a better mass builder. But I still would keep masteron in my cycle, since it blunts estrogen receptor activity and gives a nice dry look especially if your body fat is already low.
The only problem with your cycle (considering your goals) is dbol . It converts to estrogen more than test itself. You could add anavar as kickstart to your cycle instead of it, or maybe T-bol.
So forget dbol and stick ith test, mast and npp as you stated. For freeing up the test, you could add proviron 50mg ED to your cycle, it has very high affinity for SHBG. (although it doesn't block albumin from binding to testosterone )
Never tried NPP myself, but the best cycle I did was tren , test and mast. (low dose test ofc)
In short, no your logic is not silly but also widely used approach. I think you already know this, but keep caber in hand for NPP just in case for prolactin sides.
Feel free to ask anything, there are tons of knowledgeable people willing to help here. I think you should check GearHeaded's post about low dose test.

**< <Samson> >** · 12-12-2018, 05:45 AM

What's mast ace

**MuscleScience** · 12-12-2018, 06:07 AM

I put on 20lbs of LBM and dropped about that in fat while having a Total T of 83. Yep you read that right, I only found that out because I’m my own doctor and do a complete metabolic panel one a year. Imagine my suprise. I did a number of PCT protocols with the help of an MD and was only able to get back up into the low 200’s. I felt fine, had sex drive but not vigor per say. Finally I reluctantly went on TRT. And keep it in the high normal ranges. I feel better and have lost some belly fat. I had always had lower than average T levels. Most likely from a prolonged illness as a teenage or from Mono which I battled for about a year in my mid 20’s. This was actually 2 years ago that i discovered this and couldn’t believe I could make any progress in the gym with T that low.

**< <Samson> >** · 12-12-2018, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

I put on 20lbs of LBM and dropped about that in fat while having a Total T of 83.

How?!

When I had my total test numbers in the mid 300's I couldn't put on LBM if my life depended on it

**The God Himself** · 12-12-2018, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by < <Samson> >

How?!

When I had my total test numbers in the mid 300's I couldn't put on LBM if my life depended on it

He must be on roids dude, thats not possible naturally!

**Octaneforce** · 12-12-2018, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Friggnewtown

Not sure if what I'm about to say makes sense but.

You say you want to try to stay dry and not bloated and in an essence not keep on as much water retention and water weight? Then later on your explaining how you don't mind jumping back in dbol if you feel like you need it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but any chance your addicted to the psychological effects of dbol? By that I mean how swoll it can make you look. With your said idea in my mind your setting yourself up for another dbol cycle. There is nothing wrong with that but it seems so.

Have you looked into anadrol? You can't really bulk with it but high doses of Tbol? Which in all seriousness could just be really toxic. Perhaps a combination of your proposed cycle plus some heavy duty sarms? I don't know these are just random ideas

Yes i love the physciological affects of dbol. Maybe a mild addiction lol. I didnt use it during my last cycle despite having a bottle of it in my draw. Tbol actually bloated me worse than dbol when i used it. Very strange since it doesnt convert to estrogen. I thought about Anadrol but i heard the sides are pretty nasty. Your right tho, the dbol doesnt make sense in my plan.

**Octaneforce** · 12-12-2018, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by < <Samson> >

What's mast ace

Mast prop*** woops

**Octaneforce** · 12-12-2018, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by The God Himself

No thats completely feasible.
I run my cycles with TRT dose test mostly, as I want to be dry and lean most of the time. If you want to build a lot of mass, then estrogenic compounds make sense.
Test is actually a hard compound to manage if you are estrogen sensitive. It converts to estrogen and DHT, and that is the cause of the side effects that most of people experience.
So, it makes sense to run low dose test with non-estrogenic steroids as your main compound. You can use EQ as filler drug instead of mast, it is a better mass builder. But I still would keep masteron in my cycle, since it blunts estrogen receptor activity and gives a nice dry look especially if your body fat is already low.
The only problem with your cycle (considering your goals) is dbol . It converts to estrogen more than test itself. You could add anavar as kickstart to your cycle instead of it, or maybe T-bol.
So forget dbol and stick ith test, mast and npp as you stated. For freeing up the test, you could add proviron 50mg ED to your cycle, it has very high affinity for SHBG. (although it doesn't block albumin from binding to testosterone )
Never tried NPP myself, but the best cycle I did was tren , test and mast. (low dose test ofc)
In short, no your logic is not silly but also widely used approach. I think you already know this, but keep caber in hand for NPP just in case for prolactin sides.
Feel free to ask anything, there are tons of knowledgeable people willing to help here. I think you should check GearHeaded's post about low dose test.

I agree with this entire post lol. I thought about using eq as a filler but it just takes soo long to “hit”. I felt like i wasnt peaking until like 9 weeks in when i used eq. I guess i could just front load the balls out of it? I loved the appetite it gave me.

**MuscleScience** · 12-12-2018, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by < <Samson> >

How?!

When I had my total test numbers in the mid 300's I couldn't put on LBM if my life depended on it

I must have a descent MTor gene lol

**GearHeaded** · 12-16-2018, 04:07 PM

Octaneforce .. YES, of course you can bulk and put on size with low dose test (and staying 'dry')

have you ever heard of Superdrol

anyhow, your on the right track looking for other compounds like NPP and Mast. but you can add in some things like Superdrol, or Anadrol with Nolva and that will really enhance the bulk. combine that with insulin and you suddenly put on 20 pounds without any of the 'test bloat'

example
NPP - 100mg per day
Mast p - 100mg per day
Superdrol - 20mg per day (or Anadrol 100mg per day with 20mg Nolva)
Insulin 30iu per day

just run a TRT or less dose of test with that . pretty dry bulk right there

**Octaneforce** · 12-16-2018, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

Octaneforce .. YES, of course you can bulk and put on size with low dose test (and staying 'dry')

have you ever heard of Superdrol

anyhow, your on the right track looking for other compounds like NPP and Mast. but you can add in some things like Superdrol, or Anadrol with Nolva and that will really enhance the bulk. combine that with insulin and you suddenly put on 20 pounds without any of the 'test bloat'

example
NPP - 100mg per day
Mast p - 100mg per day
Superdrol - 20mg per day (or Anadrol 100mg per day with 20mg Nolva)
Insulin 30iu per day

just run a TRT or less dose of test with that . pretty dry bulk right there

Ive heard of superdrol but know nothing about it. I shall research.

What would the timing be like for insulin use? Insulin scares the shit out of me, ive heard of guys passing out from it. Also would hgh affect the insulin dose? I use 3.3 iu daily year round (which alone has kept me less bloated)