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Thread: Gear and cortisol

  1. #1
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    Gear and cortisol

    We all know that steroids increase speed of recovery, and one pathway by which they do this is by lowering cortisol levels in the body..

    Well, I'm trying to figure something out in regards to this....

    I have a pretty stressful life and it happens often where I'm trying to resolve something or at night when I'm thinking about shit I gotta do the next day, I can literally feel the stress in my body...So if I'm in this high stress state quite often throughout the week, then I imagine my cortisol is through the fuckin roof!

    My question is about how my steroid use is impacting cortisol and other stress hormones...I know I'm under a lot of stress which is an indicator that my stress hormones are elevated, but what I'm trying to figure out is if steroids block cortisol's ability to deteriorate muscle tissue or actually lower the overall output of cortisol..

    Anyone have exp with this or read any interesting research?

    I wonder how much my stress is hindering my progress....

    *yes I know it sounds like I'm answering my own question lol. Rephrased - Do we produce less cortisol while on steroids OR do our bodies just respond to it differently..?
    Last edited by AlphaMindz; 02-05-2019 at 10:51 AM.
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    IME taking drugs that have a stronger cortisol blocking ability than gear(trazodone remeron) make me feel pretty shitty... Afaik insulin is alot more powerful than androgens w cortisol blocking.. Sorry that's all i know lol

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    Alright, Putting aside that Remeron and Trazadone are very strong psychopharmacological substances, I am very interested to hear more about the topic posted by the OP.

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    I feel you dude, I'm sitting here bouncing both knees and clenching my fists for no reason. Feeling like I have to catch my breathe... but I don't have a reason to feel this way. I've been like this my whole life. It literally does not matter what I do, and has no relation to my diet/sleep/exercise/etc. Funny though, that sometimes I take my blood pressure and heart rate when I Feel like this and they are both normal, or lower than my average... so just because you think you have high cortisol/stress hormones, might not necessarily be the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    I feel you dude, I'm sitting here bouncing both knees and clenching my fists for no reason. Feeling like I have to catch my breathe... but I don't have a reason to feel this way. I've been like this my whole life. It literally does not matter what I do, and has no relation to my diet/sleep/exercise/etc. Funny though, that sometimes I take my blood pressure and heart rate when I Feel like this and they are both normal, or lower than my average... so just because you think you have high cortisol/stress hormones, might not necessarily be the case.
    Tbh when my stress hormones are low (caffeine comedown) that's when I can't breath, it's debilitating and yea if your heart rate is low its more of an indicator of low stress hormones.. So stress hormones aren't automatically bad
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    TestM,
    My bp runs a little high if I don't intervene. When I do some biofeedback, it drops 20-40 in less than one minute, prior to the biofeedback of hearing my heartrate and putting my middle and ring finger tips on the wrist (wrist at pinky side of the two tendons). i tell the nurse that now isn't the time to provoke me into a response that lets her know if I'm her next fuck buddy or the best absorber for the, "I hate my bf/ex-husband communications, you asshole!, stuff"

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    We all know that steroids increase speed of recovery, and one pathway by which they do this is by lowering cortisol levels in the body..

    Well, I'm trying to figure something out in regards to this....

    I have a pretty stressful life and it happens often where I'm trying to resolve something or at night when I'm thinking about shit I gotta do the next day, I can literally feel the stress in my body...So if I'm in this high stress state quite often throughout the week, then I imagine my cortisol is through the fuckin roof!

    My question is about how my steroid use is impacting cortisol and other stress hormones...I know I'm under a lot of stress which is an indicator that my stress hormones are elevated, but what I'm trying to figure out is if steroids block cortisol's ability to deteriorate muscle tissue or actually lower the overall output of cortisol..

    Anyone have exp with this or read any interesting research?

    I wonder how much my stress is hindering my progress....

    *yes I know it sounds like I'm answering my own question lol. Rephrased - Do we produce less cortisol while on steroids OR do our bodies just respond to it differently..?
    I find myself stressed quite a bit and one thing that stress can do is kill your appetite therefore hindering gains. As far as the technical and medical part I don't know the answer.

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    Thanks for the input fellas.

    Any other thoughts guys/gals??

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    I imagine we produce more cortisol because cortisol comes from CNS, at least when we are talking about stress. Since the steroids give us the ability to life more weight, recover faster, etc. we would be causing more CNS stress hence, more stress causing cortisol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    Thanks for the input fellas.

    Any other thoughts guys/gals??
    Just make sure you're eating enough during stressful times.. If I go long periods without calories during intense stress it amplifies the stress alot

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    If you look at the thread I started awhile back on Advanced AAS protocols and phase cycling . you'll notice as part of my phase cycling protocols I have a specific ANTI CORTISOL phase as a main part of my program (ie , my AAS philosophies) .

    controlling Cortisol is a crucial part of continued growth. thats why I have an entire phase of AAS cycling dedicated to its suppression. but keep in mind that cortisol is an important and much needed hormone in the body. thats why I only advocate suppression of it during certain phases and times. constant cortisol suppression will lead to you feeling like shit, achy joints, and unable to perform in the gym. also cortisol is a hormone that promotes gluconeogenesis (thats part of why its catabolic), but gluconeogenisis is extremely important in many cases.

    I'll add more later.. but just saying controlling cortisol is a good thing but do it within phases and reason.

    I'll link the thread I'm talking about and where I mention ani cortisol phases

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...protocols.html
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    forgot to mention,, some anti cortisol phase drugs I suggest . Cytadren , Insulin , Winstrol .

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    what I'm trying to figure out is if steroids block cortisol's ability to deteriorate muscle tissue or actually lower the overall output of cortisol..
    to answer your question directly.. some drugs like Cytadren and Winstrol will simply block Cortisol production itself. the reason you get achy joints on Winstrol is often times by "bros" said to be because Winstrol 'dries you out' and that must mean joints too .. um, no not quite. your joints hurt because you've blocked Cortisol off to such an extent that you have no natural anti inflammatory for your joints, and thats part of what cortisol does.

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    There's my man! Was hoping you'd chime in on this one. I've seen you mention cortisol quite a bit over the last year or so...First off thanks for your input bro much appreciated as always.

    So obviously different drugs will mitigate cortisol to varying degrees and I know winstrol is a drug known to lower cortisol...I guess what I was wondering is if the drugs actually LOWER cortisol production altogether, or if they just override its catabolic effects with their anabolic properties...?

    So with winny you're saying it DOES actually lower cortisol production, and to the extent that our joints are prone to inflammation because cortisol is so low. Doesn't it have something to do with lower estrogen too? I always thought that the dry joints come from winny's diuretic effects coupled with its anti estrogenic effects...which may still play a role right or no? It does make sense what you're saying about cortisol being the main culprit though....I'm thinking it's a combination but that's just a theory!

    Also, don't all AAS blunt cortisol and allow us to remain in an anabolic state? I'm just trying to figure out how much impact stress is having on my ability to build muscle.

    Funny that you mentioned insulin . Fuck it's really time now. I've been putting it off cause I'm tight on funds atm and don't wanna run slin without growth. I saw a "live with" episode (I'm sure you've seen it) with a guy named Benoit (forget his last name) and he had a lot of interesting shit to say but one thing that stuck with me is he said Lantus is the best drug for staying anabolic.. Your thoughts on long acting slin like Lantus?? Think I should give it a shot before fuckin with the short acting version or no?
    Last edited by AlphaMindz; 02-13-2019 at 12:44 PM.
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    Chris Benoit? Maybe not the best source of info?
    Gear and cortisol-images.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    There's my man! Was hoping you'd chime in on this one. I've seen you mention cortisol quite a bit over the last year or so...First off thanks for your input bro much appreciated as always.

    So obviously different drugs will mitigate cortisol to varying degrees and I know winstrol is a drug known to lower cortisol...I guess what I was wondering is if the drugs actually LOWER cortisol production altogether, or if they just override its catabolic effects with their anabolic properties...?
    Most AAS have the ability to blunt cortisol to a degree at the receptor site itself. but cortisol production will still occur and levels will still be elevated and have secondary actions (like promoting gluconeogenisis, and breaking down proteins/muscle for fuel). especially a contest prep bodybuilder who is dieting fairly hard and still training very hard. Cortisol will elevate and the chances of breaking down muscle tissue increase while dieting. you can also get water retention and have a harder time losing fat with elevated cortisol.

    a contest prep bodybuilder will want to shut down the PRODUCTION of cortisol and not just rely on some receptor blunting effects. So this is why drugs like Cytradren are used the last couple weeks of contest prep .. AND also why Winstrol is the number one choice as a contest prep drug. as both of these block cortisol production. Cytadren will work as an anti estrogen and block cortisol production. Winstrol has the bonus of blocking cortisol, lowering estrogen, AND being anabolic all at the same time.
    Winstrol does not just work at the receptor, like a lot of AAS, it actually blocks cortisol from being produced at the adrenal gland in the first place (very unique attribute to winny).
    I'd have to go back and read up to tell you how this precisely happens though. don't have it off top of my head.

    the above info is also what makes Winstol a great drug for dieting/cutting. you'll retain much more muscle with it because of its cortisol blocking effects as cortisol is going to elevate when dieting.



    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    So with winny you're saying it DOES actually lower cortisol production, and to the extent that our joints are prone to inflammation because cortisol is so low. Doesn't it have something to do with lower estrogen too? I always thought that the dry joints come from winny's diuretic effects coupled with its anti estrogenic effects...which may still play a role right or no? It does make sense what you're saying about cortisol being the main culprit though....I'm thinking it's a combination but that's just a theory!
    you are spot on. its all of these things. but cortisol suppression makes it much worse with Winny then other compounds that work similar to winny in having a 'drying' effect and anti estrogen effect. eg., Mast. you can have these effects but not have quite the achy joints as you would while on winny because the Mast is not shutting down cortisol.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    Also, don't all AAS blunt cortisol and allow us to remain in an anabolic state? I'm just trying to figure out how much impact stress is having on my ability to build muscle.
    turning on anabolic mechanisms of action and blunting some cortisol 'effects' at the receptor sites is one thing.. but blocking Cortisol all together is quite another thing . again thats why Cytadren and Winstrol are such popular contest prep drugs to use when Cortisol is at its highest, 4 weeks out from a show up until the day of the show.
    elevated Cortisol does much more then just make you catabolic and lose muscle, it can make you hold water and hold onto fat and overall be a hindrance to your physique goals.w
    BUT cortisol is a needed hormone and we can't continue blocking it for too long.. 6 week runs of Winny and or Cytradren is enough.

    you can also apply anti cortisol phases to your bulking cycles as well. its not just for cutting.. after being on cycle and training hard for weeks your cortisol will likely be going up and your gains will begin to slow down. add in a 4 week run of Winny at the end of your bulk to block cortisol and help solidify your gains. I usually combine anti cortisol and anti estrogen phases together at the end of a cycle. as both winny and Cytadren have anti estrogen effects.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    Funny that you mentioned insulin. Fuck it's really time now. I've been putting it off cause I'm tight on funds atm and don't wanna run slin without growth. I saw a "live with" episode (I'm sure you've seen it) with a guy named Benoit (forget his last name) and he had a lot of interesting shit to say but one thing that stuck with me is he said Lantus is the best drug for staying anabolic.. Your thoughts on long acting slin like Lantus?? Think I should give it a shot before fuckin with the short acting version or no?
    insulin is such an awesome tool for bodybuilding and has so many different uses , I don't know where to begin. so instead of taking your thread off track with all the awesome uses of insulin , I'll stick to the topic at hand, Cortisol.

    I currently am doing this myself and I have a handful of clients doing this exact same protocol (on top of their other insulin use protocols). upon waking in the morning, when cortisol levels are at their highest pin some regular acting insulin. This is going to work to blunt cortisol, blunt protein break down (gluconeogenisis) and give your body the message that it needs to be in an anabolic state (not a catabolic state).

    the amount of insulin used to do this and what nutrition is consumed afterwards is completely dependent on the person , the diet, the goals, the drugs they are on... sometimes its just 5iu of Slin with no food at all (especially if they are running HGH and high blood sugars). Sometimes its 15iu with a protein and carb meal. sometimes its 3iu before fasted cardio for fat loss.



    regarding your other points.. imo, you can run insulin very successfully without any need for HGH at all. of course they work better together but insulin has so many different uses. heck you could just use insulin as a post workout recovery aide, you don't really need HGH added in there to get that benefit.
    you could also just add some MK677 to the mix at a much cheaper price then Hgh and still get that synergistic effect.

    yes I'm a fan of long acting basil insulin like Lantus.. I generally recommend it being used on top of a rapid or regular acting insulin as well. unless your just using it to control blood sugar from Hgh usage.
    in my log you can find a protocol i put together for myself for running Latus along with Humalog. the Lantus is the base insulin taken in the AM and before bed. the Humalog is the active insulin used precisely for training and post workout recovery.
    this is more of a protocol for putting on size. Lantus is not the best choice if your in contest prep or trying to cut though as you cannot control its timing like you can a rapid acting insulin.

    I always recommend guys start with the post workout regular acting insulin protocol their first time using insulin. and then progress from there with all the different insulin methods.. I don't think Lantus would be your best bet at this point in time , but definitely can be useful later on , especially if you do find yourself running a lot of HGH or peptides/gh secretagogues.
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    I screwed up the quote feature. Gremlins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    Most AAS have the ability to blunt cortisol to a degree at the receptor site itself. but cortisol production will still occur and levels will still be elevated and have secondary actions (like promoting gluconeogenisis, and breaking down proteins/muscle for fuel). especially a contest prep bodybuilder who is dieting fairly hard and still training very hard. Cortisol will elevate and the chances of breaking down muscle tissue increase while dieting. you can also get water retention and have a harder time losing fat with elevated cortisol.

    a contest prep bodybuilder will want to shut down the PRODUCTION of cortisol and not just rely on some receptor blunting effects. So this is why drugs like Cytradren are used the last couple weeks of contest prep .. AND also why Winstrol is the number one choice as a contest prep drug. as both of these block cortisol production. Cytadren will work as an anti estrogen and block cortisol production. Winstrol has the bonus of blocking cortisol, lowering estrogen, AND being anabolic all at the same time.
    Winstrol does not just work at the receptor, like a lot of AAS, it actually blocks cortisol from being produced at the adrenal gland in the first place (very unique attribute to winny).
    -
    -
    GH,
    Are the doses for blunting or omitting production of cortisol different than for other uses? For instance, Trazadone, a psycho-pharmaceutical, is prescribed for insomnia, anxiety and PTSD, all at different doses. The insomnia dose is 50 mg, anxiety 200-600 mg, and PTSD 400-600. Trazadone fills the orexin receptors (responsible for sleep/wake cycles) at 50 mg, so anymore for insomnia is unnecessary and produces more side-effects. The other receptors need a higher dose.
    Anavar comes to mind, at a low dose it still suppresses SHBG. But at a higher dose it has more direct performance enhancing benefits. What is the lowest dose of whinny for cortisol suppression?

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    Hmmm



    Stress less = grow more = better well being


    I go about it a semi non medical way - smoke some(prescription only) weed, workout & do roids - all, while stressing less


    Good topic tho
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    Most AAS have the ability to blunt cortisol to a degree at the receptor site itself. but cortisol production will still occur and levels will still be elevated and have secondary actions (like promoting gluconeogenisis, and breaking down proteins/muscle for fuel). especially a contest prep bodybuilder who is dieting fairly hard and still training very hard. Cortisol will elevate and the chances of breaking down muscle tissue increase while dieting. you can also get water retention and have a harder time losing fat with elevated cortisol.

    a contest prep bodybuilder will want to shut down the PRODUCTION of cortisol and not just rely on some receptor blunting effects. So this is why drugs like Cytradren are used the last couple weeks of contest prep .. AND also why Winstrol is the number one choice as a contest prep drug. as both of these block cortisol production. Cytadren will work as an anti estrogen and block cortisol production. Winstrol has the bonus of blocking cortisol, lowering estrogen, AND being anabolic all at the same time.
    Winstrol does not just work at the receptor, like a lot of AAS, it actually blocks cortisol from being produced at the adrenal gland in the first place (very unique attribute to winny).
    I'd have to go back and read up to tell you how this precisely happens though. don't have it off top of my head.

    the above info is also what makes Winstol a great drug for dieting/cutting. you'll retain much more muscle with it because of its cortisol blocking effects as cortisol is going to elevate when dieting.





    you are spot on. its all of these things. but cortisol suppression makes it much worse with Winny then other compounds that work similar to winny in having a 'drying' effect and anti estrogen effect. eg., Mast. you can have these effects but not have quite the achy joints as you would while on winny because the Mast is not shutting down cortisol.




    turning on anabolic mechanisms of action and blunting some cortisol 'effects' at the receptor sites is one thing.. but blocking Cortisol all together is quite another thing . again thats why Cytadren and Winstrol are such popular contest prep drugs to use when Cortisol is at its highest, 4 weeks out from a show up until the day of the show.
    elevated Cortisol does much more then just make you catabolic and lose muscle, it can make you hold water and hold onto fat and overall be a hindrance to your physique goals.w
    BUT cortisol is a needed hormone and we can't continue blocking it for too long.. 6 week runs of Winny and or Cytradren is enough.

    you can also apply anti cortisol phases to your bulking cycles as well. its not just for cutting.. after being on cycle and training hard for weeks your cortisol will likely be going up and your gains will begin to slow down. add in a 4 week run of Winny at the end of your bulk to block cortisol and help solidify your gains. I usually combine anti cortisol and anti estrogen phases together at the end of a cycle. as both winny and Cytadren have anti estrogen effects.




    insulin is such an awesome tool for bodybuilding and has so many different uses , I don't know where to begin. so instead of taking your thread off track with all the awesome uses of insulin , I'll stick to the topic at hand, Cortisol.

    I currently am doing this myself and I have a handful of clients doing this exact same protocol (on top of their other insulin use protocols). upon waking in the morning, when cortisol levels are at their highest pin some regular acting insulin. This is going to work to blunt cortisol, blunt protein break down (gluconeogenisis) and give your body the message that it needs to be in an anabolic state (not a catabolic state).

    the amount of insulin used to do this and what nutrition is consumed afterwards is completely dependent on the person , the diet, the goals, the drugs they are on... sometimes its just 5iu of Slin with no food at all (especially if they are running HGH and high blood sugars). Sometimes its 15iu with a protein and carb meal. sometimes its 3iu before fasted cardio for fat loss.



    regarding your other points.. imo, you can run insulin very successfully without any need for HGH at all. of course they work better together but insulin has so many different uses. heck you could just use insulin as a post workout recovery aide, you don't really need HGH added in there to get that benefit.
    you could also just add some MK677 to the mix at a much cheaper price then Hgh and still get that synergistic effect.

    yes I'm a fan of long acting basil insulin like Lantus.. I generally recommend it being used on top of a rapid or regular acting insulin as well. unless your just using it to control blood sugar from Hgh usage.
    in my log you can find a protocol i put together for myself for running Latus along with Humalog. the Lantus is the base insulin taken in the AM and before bed. the Humalog is the active insulin used precisely for training and post workout recovery.
    this is more of a protocol for putting on size. Lantus is not the best choice if your in contest prep or trying to cut though as you cannot control its timing like you can a rapid acting insulin.

    I always recommend guys start with the post workout regular acting insulin protocol their first time using insulin. and then progress from there with all the different insulin methods.. I don't think Lantus would be your best bet at this point in time , but definitely can be useful later on , especially if you do find yourself running a lot of HGH or peptides/gh secretagogues.
    Well goddamn brother you've outdone yourself once again! Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions so thoroughly.

    I don't even have any follow up questions cause you hit every point and it all clicked bro. Gonna start with one dose of slin post workout (gonna try 5iu's as our mutual brother in arms Obs had suggested and assuming he got that advice from you..) and that needs to be taken with 50 grams of fast acting carbs.. Ok guess I do have another question lol....How worried should I be about that SECOND spike?? And does the 10g carbs per iu still apply to this second spike?

    You fully answered my question about cortisol and that IS interesting about winstrol as I didn't know it actually blunts PRODUCTION of cortisol. I did some digging on google and couldn't find a definitive answer. Winny's one of my favorite compounds cause I can run it so low (kinda in the background) even at just 25mg added into my shots makes a noticeable difference in my physique...Interesting question from Quester about dosages...cause I def get a benefit from 25mgs eod (injectable) but I feel like at that dose I'm just getting some cortisol blunting effects, reducing SHBG which allows my test dosage to be more efficient, and it also keeps bloating down and keeps some of that separation present (although this is dependent on bf %)...I rotate winny in frequently for these benefits but always rotate out after max 6 weeks and then bring it back in after another 1 or 2 rotations of compounds. (It's one of my main compounds I like using, but only if it's made properly and I don't feel like I took a bullet to my ass after injecting lol)..

    Back to insulin... So like I said I'm gonna take your suggestion and start with a post workout dose and go from there. Like you're saying, it shouldn't make me fat without hgh if using it only once a day and especially when my glycogen is depleted and I can absorb all of the carbs ingested with it (dont wanna spill over and get too fat). Another thing I like about taking it pwo is that I won't be eating fat after dosing cause my immediate pwo meal doesn't contain fat. I've been told that insulin doesn't discriminate and will shuttle EVERYTHING into the muscle so we wana stay clear of fats during that specific time frame in order to make sure it's mostly protein and carbs being transported into the muscle cell.

    Eventually I will add hgh and then I'll prob pick your brain on how to incorporate that into my regimen and potentially adding another dose of slin at some point in the day. Obs said pre and post wo would be the two best times to dose slin initially so maybe after just tkaing it pwo I'll also add in a small dose pre-wo...

    Is there anything I'm missing here and does it sound like I have a grasp on this? I'm grateful to have you guys to consult about this shit! Thank you to everyone who's given me a gem of knowledge to up my game and help me get better it's much appreciated!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    Chris Benoit? Maybe not the best source of info?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Did some digging and found it. His name is Benoit Lapierre.

    Chris Benoit? Hell no bro c'mon now! I don't think taking gear advice from a guy who killed his whole family and then hanged himself using a lat pulldown cable would be favorable for me....Tragic. Of course steroids were blamed when in actuality it's been since proven that he had CTE which is a brain disease from excessive concussions and CTE causes erratic and aggressive behavior.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    Chris Benoit? Maybe not the best source of info?
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    This is what i was thinking
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