the off cycle "cycle" or BRIDGING

So I've touched on using a combination of non AAS growth factor compounds to run while "off cycle", or during a cruising phase, in parts of my thread here.

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...protocols.html

but that thread has more focus on guys who blast and cruise and don't PCT.. most you know I'm not a fan of PCT, I prefer phase cycling year round, and if you do PCT to just do it once per year. but lots of guys don't want to "risk" that and so do a PCT after each cycle. So heres a little bit of an edge that can help you maintain and even make gains, while completely off cycle, recovering your HPTA.


this is an example of an off cycle "cycle" that uses NO steroids that suppress your HPTA. so you can be fully recovering that yet still make gains. this would also be an example of a 'bridge' between cycles.
note- you guys that TRT or cruise can still do this between cycles as well

10 week off cycle protocol
Weeks 1-10
HGH - 4-6iu per day
T4 - 75mcg per day
Insulin - 20-30iu per day
Clenbuterol - 40mcg per day

thats it. pretty simple eh (compared to some of the shit I come up with :)

these 4 compounds are very very synergetic with each other . none of them will effect your HPTA and other aspects of your body like steroids would. but stacked together these 4 compounds are extremely ANABOLIC. I'd venture to say that you could put on a fair amount of muscle during this 10 weeks, and again thats with no actual AAS.

this will more then carry you over to you next cycle in terms of keeping and even making gains, it will also actually sensitive and prime you for your next cycle.

In another post I can go into the details on how these 4 drugs all work together and how when stacked together they become a super powerhouse anabolic muscle builder without any hpta suppression

I can also give a couple other examples of off cycle 'cycles' and bridging protocols


edit- do NOT think that the above protocol is a fat loss or cutting protocol just because it contains Clen and T4 . its not. these drugs are being used here as an anabolic to help build lean tissue because of their synergetic effects with all 4 compounds combined

For use after PCT is done or can be used while doing PCT? I'm assuming it makes no difference because you mention it does not affect HPTA, unless elevated levels will be a factor, but in some cases levels stay elevated long after pct has been completed?

This is golden.

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I can also give a couple other examples of off cycle 'cycles' and bridging protocols

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Interested in this.

You forgot 10mg of cialis everyday :evil2:

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Originally Posted by Swollster

For use after PCT is done or can be used while doing PCT? I'm assuming it makes no difference because you mention it does not affect HPTA, unless elevated levels will be a factor, but in some cases levels stay elevated long after pct has been completed?

This is golden.

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yes I would use the protocol right after your cycle wither your on PCT or not

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

10 week off cycle protocol
Weeks 1-10
HGH - 4-6iu per day
T4 - 75mcg per day
Insulin - 20-30iu per day
Clenbuterol - 40mcg per day

thats it. pretty simple eh (compared to some of the shit I come up with :)

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Very true.

So this off cycle bridging is technically done once a year?

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Originally Posted by 5millionbucks

So this off cycle bridging is technically done once a year?

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you can run it as often as you want or anytime your coming 'off cycle'.. you can even run it during PCT

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

you can run it as often as you want or anytime your coming 'off cycle'.. you can even run it during PCT

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would this follow the time on= pct +time off logic or does it not matter as much?

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Originally Posted by 5millionbucks

would this follow the time on= pct +time off logic or does it not matter as much?

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no . whoever came up with that logic was 'half natty' and not really interested in making gains.. time on should be 80% of the time imo

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

no . whoever came up with that logic was 'half natty' and not really interested in making gains.. time on should be 80% of the time imo

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That 80% number seems to be bang on with the 16 weeks on 4 weeks off method.

I feel like I wasted so much time with that time on = time off BS. Cycle to gain muscle just to piss it all away. Luckily I started talking to the right people about 18 months ago and things have been great ever since...

Good to know. I'm on my 6th week, first cycle Test E only, and I'd love to get into my second one before waiting so long. I'm just curious what protocol you guys would recommend for the bridge for someone like me. I'm also on HGH 3IU 5on/2off.

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

edit- do NOT think that the above protocol is a fat loss or cutting protocol just because it contains Clen and T4 . its not. these drugs are being used here as an anabolic to help build lean tissue because of their synergetic effects with all 4 compounds combined

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Wait... Clen is anabolic? Still learning something new around here everyday.

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Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars

Wait... Clen is anabolic? Still learning something new around here everyday.

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I thought it was muscle sparing, not anabolic per se. I am interested to hear his response to this question myself

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Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars

Wait... Clen is anabolic? Still learning something new around here everyday.

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yes Clen is anabolic at moderate dosages and in a calorie surplus.. it supresses Myostatin and upregulates proein sythesis and cellular hypertrophy via Mtor.

studies have been conducted showing conclusively that Clen increased muscle mass. this was so well accepted that Clen was used in the ranching industry for years to help keep animals growing to their max potential (until Clen was banned by the FDA)..

back in the day guys used to run Clen during PCT, when not cutting, just to help keep building and preserving muscle .

Clen is also synergistic with thyroid hormones and HGH and has other indirect muscle building capacities.. I've put clen into a lot of difference cycles when NOT cutting at dosages of between 20-60mcg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

10 week off cycle protocol
Weeks 1-10
HGH - 4-6iu per day
T4 - 75mcg per day
Insulin - 20-30iu per day
Clenbuterol - 40mcg per day

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How much would this porotocols efficiency decrease without any HGH but with low dose test and a low dose anabolic? Would it still do its job efficient enough to run it?

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

no . whoever came up with that logic was 'half natty' and not really interested in making gains.. time on should be 80% of the time imo

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Another question; I've been off all anabolics/peds for about 7 weeks or so 4 week pct with 3 week off time; then I jumped on s4(andarine) starting at 25mg-50mg a day. I had bloodwork done while in PCT and my body responded very well(meaning my LH, FSH and test levels were good, I know they go down and level off after the weeks it takes clomid to leave your system.) So I've been off test for about 12 weeks or what you call a blast; yes I used a sarm andarine at 50mg past 4 weeks, but will hopping on another cycle/blast affect me or should I just do a PCT now and then wait to hop on another cycle? I ran andarine so early in(basically used it as a bridge and also wanted to shed some fat off that I gained on cycle and not lose muscle.) The reason why I ran andarine basically a few weeks after my PCT was because I've done past bloodwork before and after; and after being on andarine for 8 weeks at 50mg (last 5 weeks); my test levels only jumped down 80 points from my regular natty levels which was 404 down to 324 while my free test went up 40 points; LH and FSH was unaffected. So imo I think andarine is perfect to use as a bridge between cycles since it doesnt shut down your hpta; and doesnt really affect you test levels unless your run 75-100mg a day of it.

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Originally Posted by Huher

How much would this porotocols efficiency decrease without any HGH but with low dose test and a low dose anabolic? Would it still do its job efficient enough to run it?

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its going to be beneficial and more synergistic having the gh in there. or at least run an MK677 or other ghrp to increase natty gh levels

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Originally Posted by 5millionbucks

Another question; I've been off all anabolics/peds for about 7 weeks or so 4 week pct with 3 week off time; then I jumped on s4(andarine) starting at 25mg-50mg a day. I had bloodwork done while in PCT and my body responded very well(meaning my LH, FSH and test levels were good, I know they go down and level off after the weeks it takes clomid to leave your system.) So I've been off test for about 12 weeks or what you call a blast; yes I used a sarm andarine at 50mg past 4 weeks, but will hopping on another cycle/blast affect me or should I just do a PCT now and then wait to hop on another cycle? I ran andarine so early in(basically used it as a bridge and also wanted to shed some fat off that I gained on cycle and not lose muscle.) The reason why I ran andarine basically a few weeks after my PCT was because I've done past bloodwork before and after; and after being on andarine for 8 weeks at 50mg (last 5 weeks); my test levels only jumped down 80 points from my regular natty levels which was 404 down to 324 while my free test went up 40 points; LH and FSH was unaffected. So imo I think andarine is perfect to use as a bridge between cycles since it doesnt shut down your hpta; and doesnt really affect you test levels unless your run 75-100mg a day of it.

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well if you ran a cycle, did PCT, then recovered and got on S4,, then I'd just move right into another blast/cycle . no need to pct again after the s4 run.


note - keep in mind that when you get blood work during PCT, the pct drugs are artificially skewing your lh, fsh, and test levels . so its not a very accurate indicator. you'll want to wait 6 weeks after pct to test and see how well your natty test levels recovered or not

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

well if you ran a cycle, did PCT, then recovered and got on S4,, then I'd just move right into another blast/cycle . no need to pct again after the s4 run.


note - keep in mind that when you get blood work during PCT, the pct drugs are artificially skewing your lh, fsh, and test levels . so its not a very accurate indicator. you'll want to wait 6 weeks after pct to test and see how well your natty test levels recovered or not

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yes that is true I know that; overall I felt good; only felt some suppression symptoms when I bumped up the dose of s4 to 75mg. But also I was on it for a good 4 weeks beforehand. But seeing that 50mg of S4 wasn't that suppressive on my test, I feel like the first 3 weeks I was on it the clomid was still lingering on, and I would say its the least suppressive sarm out their even moreso than ostarine; I would actually run a low dose of s4(25mg) while on PCT to retain gains.

I think running SARMs "off cycle" is just fine (depending on the situation).. there is not as direct a suppression to the HPTA with SARMs then with actual AAS. I've seen different blood work with SARMs only cycles where sure Test levels decline , but free test actually goes up and LH and FSH don't go down much. with a more stout suppression, LH and FSH would be the first things to fall off.

I think whats happening with SARMs is that they have a much stronger binding affinity then test itself to the AR .. but SARMs do not convert to estrogen at all , and estrogen is highly suppressive to HPTA (more so then exogenous androgens). so on a SARMs only cycle you get limited suppression, your total test can fall off a bit, but its not needed to be high cause the SARM is acting as the androgen, free test elevates because SHBG declines. so you get a scenario with mild suppression and something easy to recover from..
unlike running say a test and Dbol cycle, where DHT and Estrogen are going to sky rocket quickly and shut your HPTA down fairly hard. or like deca or Tren that are progestins that are going to act on progestin receptors and shut you down really hard as well

SARMs are just basically "selectively" stimulating ARs in a certain way and not doing much else

I did realize though technically tren and ment are sarms too but cause massive suppression on top of all other factors because they do bind to the AR very strongly, but I still categorize them in the anabolics category; even s23, I heard that shit is strong as fuck.

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Originally Posted by 5millionbucks

I did realize though technically tren and ment are sarms too but cause massive suppression on top of all other factors because they do bind to the AR very strongly, but I still categorize them in the anabolics category; even s23, I heard that shit is strong as fuck.

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Ment and Tren are derived from Nandrolone, and are a Progestin . Ment is an anabolic and Tren is more of an androgen. the reason 19 nors shut you down so hard is because they bind to progestin receptors as actual progesterone. which then super sensitizes you to estrogen . so your brain thinks there is very high amounts of progesterone and estrogen in the body and thus shuts down the HPTA

SARMs on the other hand are not progestinic at all

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

In another post I can go into the details on how these 4 drugs all work together and how when stacked together they become a super powerhouse anabolic muscle builder without any hpta suppression

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I'd love to read that

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I can also give a couple other examples of off cycle 'cycles' and bridging protocols

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Yes please!!!!! If it is possible i'd like to read something with DNP and no Clen. I consider DNP safer than Clen

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

these drugs are being used here as an anabolic to help build lean tissue because of their synergetic effects with all 4 compounds combined

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If you had to extimate the total anabolic increase compared to test how much it can be?

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Originally Posted by Aner

If it is possible i'd like to read something with DNP and no Clen. I consider DNP safer than Clen

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I agree that for fat loss specifically , DNP can be safer then Clen. however, keep in mind that DNP is catabolic and Clen is anabolic. so Clen has a lot more practical applications in bodybuilding and sports performance then DNP.

DNP is only a catabolic fat loss aide in that it only down regulates effeciency in the body , where as clen up regulates efficiency in the body. DNP makes performance decline where as Clen increases performance.
DNP makes your body less effecient at using glycogen for energy and creating ATP within cells (thats part of how it burns fat).. Where as Clen makes you more efficient acting as a stimulant and upregulating Mtor (thats all part of how it burns fat)


so really these are two very opposite drugs -- even though both are considered 'fat burners' . as I've hinted on earlier though, I don't utilize Clen as only a fat burner, I have it utilized in various other ways as well.
Dnp has only ever been utilized as a fat burner during a cut..


I would NOT utilize DNP during a cruising/ off cycle phase (like I would use Clen).. I would only use it in the midst of a well planned cutting cycle along with anabolics . I also would utilize insulin with it (I can go in more detail later as to why).

for contest prep I would NOT utilize DNP going into the show at all (big mistake), I would only use it during the first part of contest prep at least 8 weeks out and then pull it all together by 4 weeks out. Dnp is going to make you very flat and effect your glucose metabolism and ability to utilize glycogen. thats not what you want going into a show.
Clen on the other hand can be ran all the way up until about 3 days out and then the dose drastically lowered


dnp can definitely be used as a stand alone fat burner with no clen or stims . but I would not use it solo without anabolics. its a catabolic performance decreaser, not performance enhancer

DNP makes your body less efficient at using energy .. Clen on the other hand speeds up the rate at which you use energy.

heres an analogy that may help in regards to how they burn fat differently -

Dnp is like putting 10 pound weights on your ankles and going for a 1 mile run and that run now taking you 15 mins and a ton of effort to complete

Clen is like buying the lightest and best running shoes on the market and now being able to run 2 miles in that same 15 mins

so the time duration is the same .. heck the calories burned may be the same even. but two totally different ways of going about it

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I would NOT utilize DNP during a cruising/ off cycle phase (like I would use Clen).. I would only use it in the midst of a well planned cutting cycle along with anabolics . I also would utilize insulin with it (I can go in more detail later as to why).

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ok so heres the DNP and Insulin stuff .. whats written below is a post of mine in another thread about dnp use


______
its interesting , the two most dangerous drugs in bodybuilding go very well stacked together , DNP with Insulin

DNP makes you more insulin sensitive , BUT it also stops your body from producing insulin (I'll explain below), so its a catch 22 really. But if you take insulin with DNP then you get the best of both worlds. You get to burn body fat, utilize a shit ton of carbs without being able to put on more body fat, and build muscle .

If exogenous insulin and high amounts of carbs make you fat, then just add DNP. If DNP makes you flat and have high blood sugars cause your body is no longer able to produce insulin from it , then just add insulin. If your worried about losing muscle on a cut with DNP, just add insulin. With insulin present you'll still be able to uptake glucose, amino acids, and other nutrients into muscle cells (that anabolism) , its just that your cell will no longer be able to use that glucose as energy , but you still get the anabolic effect . Running DNP without insulin and you won''t get that effect.
so to a certain degree they are synergistic together.

DNP essentially turns you temporarily into a type 1 diabetic (not able to produce insulin from the pancreas). thats why adding insulin is beneficial when using it. I'll explain

Insulin is released by pancreatic beta cells in response to elevated ATP/ADP ratios . when your blood sugar levels rise, your ATP/ADP levels become elevated, inhibiting ATP sensitive potassium ion channels (KATP), altering the membrane potential of the pancreatic cells and causing insulin release. The main thing here is that insulin will not be released unless ATP levels within the cells increase. DNP interferes with the protein complex ATP synthase, which allows for the synthesis of ATP from ADP . Since DNP interferes with a key step in ATP production, obviously ATP levels never elevate within any cell, including pancreatic beta cells. Hence , the feedback system through the KATP channels (at least in regards to insulin release), is disabled, and you effectively make yourself a diabetic while on DNP.

The primary action of insulin in the body is to drive glucose into muscle and liver cells (stored as glycogen) which is converted into ATP. Since DNP reduces ATP production significantly*, it again interferes with insulin production by preventing a significant amount of the glucose that is pushed into cells by insulin from ever being used as energy (at least by the cell). So , what is happening to all of this energy that is being expended through the electron transport chain to turn ADP and Pi into ATP? It’s thrown off as heat, and lots of it . thats the main side effect of DNP, as well as the cause of death if you over dose (over heating from the inside)

*DNP is an uncoupling agent. Stopping ATP is what its designed to do. Fat oxidation becomes the bodies source of energy, and why DNP burns body fat so well

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I agree that for fat loss specifically , DNP can be safer then Clen. however, keep in mind that DNP is catabolic and Clen is anabolic. so Clen has a lot more practical applications in bodybuilding and sports performance then DNP.

DNP is only a catabolic fat loss aide in that it only down regulates effeciency in the body , where as clen up regulates efficiency in the body. DNP makes performance decline where as Clen increases performance.
DNP makes your body less effecient at using glycogen for energy and creating ATP within cells (thats part of how it burns fat).. Where as Clen makes you more efficient acting as a stimulant and upregulating Mtor (thats all part of how it burns fat)


so really these are two very opposite drugs -- even though both are considered 'fat burners' . as I've hinted on earlier though, I don't utilize Clen as only a fat burner, I have it utilized in various other ways as well.
Dnp has only ever been utilized as a fat burner during a cut..


I would NOT utilize DNP during a cruising/ off cycle phase (like I would use Clen).. I would only use it in the midst of a well planned cutting cycle along with anabolics . I also would utilize insulin with it (I can go in more detail later as to why).

for contest prep I would NOT utilize DNP going into the show at all (big mistake), I would only use it during the first part of contest prep at least 8 weeks out and then pull it all together by 4 weeks out. Dnp is going to make you very flat and effect your glucose metabolism and ability to utilize glycogen. thats not what you want going into a show.
Clen on the other hand can be ran all the way up until about 3 days out and then the dose drastically lowered


dnp can definitely be used as a stand alone fat burner with no clen or stims . but I would not use it solo without anabolics. its a catabolic performance decreaser, not performance enhancer

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Outstanding as always GH, i tought that the main function of Clen here was re-sensitize androgen receptors and i saw in your advanced protocol thread that you used DNP for the same purpose and that's why i tought they were interchangeable in some way.

Fuck... you know i been doin this on off thing for awhile now....these days i just jump from one cycle to the next, like not going overboard with my dosing. For ex, test/mast cruise roght now...love the way i look on mast/test not much sides literally at all...next im blasting test and jumping back on dbol for about month to try and pack on some mass.

Fuck all that time off time on shit, i want to keep the muscle i fucking made while on cucle not piss it away and still bust ass eating and training

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Originally Posted by Aner

Outstanding as always GH, i tought that the main function of Clen here was re-sensitize androgen receptors and i saw in your advanced protocol thread that you used DNP for the same purpose and that's why i tought they were interchangeable in some way.

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yes both compounds can re-sensitize you. they can also both make you more insulin sensitive.. you just have to decide which one to use for what purpose and situation, keeping in mind that DNP is catabolic and Clen is anabolic.

theres nothing wrong with "Catabolic' by the way.. thats not necessarily a bad thing. heck the whole getting lean and shredded process is a catabolic process, fat burning is catabolic .
but I would save DNP use mainly for these catabolic phases and not for any building phases.. DNP works great for mini cuts in between massing phases. it will make the mini cut way more effective and you'll reset your insulin sensitivity quickly as well . a mini cut is generally about 4 weeks , which coincides perfectly with how I advise using dnp (4 weeks use, 4 days on 2 days off, taper up the dosage over time)

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

yes both compounds can re-sensitize you. they can also both make you more insulin sensitive.. you just have to decide which one to use for what purpose and situation, keeping in mind that DNP is catabolic and Clen is anabolic.

theres nothing wrong with "Catabolic' by the way.. thats not necessarily a bad thing. heck the whole getting lean and shredded process is a catabolic process, fat burning is catabolic .
but I would save DNP use mainly for these catabolic phases and not for any building phases.. DNP works great for mini cuts in between massing phases. it will make the mini cut way more effective and you'll reset your insulin sensitivity quickly as well . a mini cut is generally about 4 weeks , which coincides perfectly with how I advise using dnp (4 weeks use, 4 days on 2 days off, taper up the dosage over time)

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Could you give the dosage and more detailed cycle for a mini cut with DNP. My phase cycle ends just before the holidays and want to use DNP after my cruise before I jump on a lean bulk again.

What would the dosing be for 10 grams of DNP (crystalline)?

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Wyatt 88

Could you give the dosage and more detailed cycle for a mini cut with DNP. My phase cycle ends just before the holidays and want to use DNP after my cruise before I jump on a lean bulk again.

What would the dosing be for 10 grams of DNP (crystalline)?

Thanks.

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200mg of DNP 4 days on 2 days off to start and taper up from there for 4 weeks max

an anabolic like primo at 600mg per week

Insuin , IF you know what the heck your doing with it (I can't break that all down here)

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

200mg of DNP 4 days on 2 days off to start and taper up from there for 4 weeks max

an anabolic like primo at 600mg per week

Insuin , IF you know what the heck your doing with it (I can't break that all down here)

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How long do you suggest to stay off from DNP?

Inviato dal mio SM-G950F utilizzando Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Aner

How long do you suggest to stay off from DNP?

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6 weeks . monitor blood sugars and make sure those numbers all go back to normal or even decrease some. after running DNP and losing weight you should be more insulin sensitive , thats why numbers may be lower, BUT dnp can effect your pancreas production of insulin, so you just want to make sure that gets back to normal

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Originally Posted by Livinlean

That 80% number seems to be bang on with the 16 weeks on 4 weeks off method.

I feel like I wasted so much time with that time on = time off BS. Cycle to gain muscle just to piss it all away. Luckily I started talking to the right people about 18 months ago and things have been great ever since...

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I like 8 weeks on 2 off. It's the same amount of time on and time off, but I feel it's more productive. If using longer esters 12 weeks on 3 off.