HIIT Cardio ok for your heart when on Gear ?

**GearHeaded** · 06-06-2019, 11:27 AM

ok so this is just a theory I'm throwing out there for guys to think about. I've done no direct research on this.

But I'm thinking that doing HIIT cardio while blasting large amounts of gear is not a very good idea for heart health.
With the recent passing of Matt Porter at only 34 years old with heart conditions, who used to do upwards of 3 HIIT cardio sessions per day and was a huge proponent of HIIT,, its crossed my mind.

so real quick, what is HIIT cardio. its high intensity interval training cardio. so think doing sprints on a track, you sprint hard as hell for one minute straight, then jog for 2 mins, then sprint again, etc. (Matt used to run stairs at a stadium)

so why wouldn't this be good for your heart while on gear? your probably increasing your chances of cardiac hypertrophy by 10 fold by doing this. Plus the fact that the gear your taking has your blood volume way way higher and thicker then normal (your probably also holding lots more muscle and water) and your heart is working twice as hard as it would if you were natty and had natural levels of blood volume.

heck natural athletes who engage in high intensity cardio sessions or sporting events quite often are already prone to getting cardiac hypertrophy. now you add a bodybuilder doing the same type of thing while on massive amounts of gear, add in HGH and Slin on top of that, elevated IGF levels, etc.. and your heart is no doubt going to enlarge.

I just think HIIT cardio , or any super high intensity cardio while on massive amounts of gear (with all the above listed extra blood volume and heart stress) is NOT a good idea or healthy for your heart at all.

steady state cardio is the heart healthier choice imo, especially when on gear

and on a side note. if your doing HIIT for fat burning. Keep in mind that HITT is way way more of a glycoletic (glycogen dependent) form of cardio anyhow. it uses up a ton of glycogen stores, not fat stores. the reason is because there is a lot more muscular contraction and explosiveness that goes on when your doing a sprint or high intensity form of cardio.. this requires glycogen for energy, not fat.. oxidizing fat for energy is a much more slow steady non muscular dependent energy source. when doing steady state cardio and not using a ton of explosive muscular contractions your body can better utilize fat for energy and not be so glycogen dependent (of course if your trying to purposely deplete glycogen stores, HIIT makes sense over steady state).

anyhow, this is just a thought and an opinion

**The God Himself** · 06-06-2019, 12:59 PM

Amazing post, thanks GH

**charger69** · 06-06-2019, 05:52 PM

I understand your thoughts. I am a proponent of HIIT.
When doing LISS I had difficulty in getting my legs to grow. I changed to HIIT and they started growing.
I just recently had a electrocardiograph and I did have very small hypertrophy however It was nothing that made the cardiologist blink. As a matter of fact, they didn’t mention it, I saw it on the report. There are studies that the effect of HIIT do have a longer effect in fat loss than LISS.
I am not arguing nor am I an expert, however I have researched this. This is not saying I’m right.

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**Slacker78** · 06-07-2019, 10:51 AM

HIIT cardio ? No thanks. LISS cardio sometimes and just heavy weights and low ( but good ) reps. For fat burning it's enough a caloric deficit, a good anabolic support, T4/T3 and heavy weights to keep muscle mass. Many folks forget the main principles for fat burning, which are universal and immutable. The truth is the many ones have not patience and search for a good or magic "method" which does not exists.

Agree with you GH.

**HDThunder** · 06-07-2019, 12:02 PM

I completely agree with you as well GH. Pretty sure HIIT training would kill me. I'm too damn old for that! (57). I can get my heart rate up to 130-140 doing a good 12 rep set. I do LISS cardio only. Currently 45 minutes 6 times a week for fat burning. Try to keep my heart rate in the 110-115 range.

**kelkel** · 06-07-2019, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

With the recent passing of Matt Porter at only 34 years old with heart conditions

Do we know for sure what Matt died from yet?

**Test Monsterone** · 06-07-2019, 08:01 PM

I do a MIIT cardio when I do cardio. Medium instensity. I walk at a brisk pace at 3 degree incline on the treadmill for 2-3 minutes, then 2 minutes of incline ranging from 7-15 degrees at the same speed. I usually build my way up and then go back down in incline. I rarely run. I still sweat, but that high intensity shit is for skinny guys, not meat monsters.

**charger69** · 06-07-2019, 09:22 PM

Why’s everyone against me??? Can’t keep up with the old man?? LOL

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**Test Monsterone** · 06-07-2019, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Do we know for sure what Matt died from yet?

Yes he died from a heart attack. He had a mass in his lungs and was coughing a lot and thought he had pneumonia. Didn’t get the results in time, but I suspect pulmonary embolism. In 2012 he found out he had really high blood pressure but didn’t take meds regardless. In 2015 he was in heart failure due to the drugs and bp. He was a big dude and had to have been on a lot of drugs to maintain the physique he had. He was smart, but you can’t trick your body.

**balance** · 06-08-2019, 02:15 PM

I have asked this specific question to folks on gear and in this forum in the past. Interestingly enough the response was almost always cardio (state doesn’t matter) is always heart protective. I have never believed this to be true. It just seams so simple, the heart is a muscle, if you were going to try and grow that muscle what would be ideal conditions? If I had to guess it would be gear (especially harsh compounds such as tren )and cardio. Now I do believe liss (brisk walk) cardio is likely good in nearly all cases but anything beyond that whiled geared up is not going to be ideal for long term health.
This is all just my big picture view.

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**Obs** · 06-08-2019, 08:30 PM

Yeah... I am gonna die soon.

**Obs** · 06-08-2019, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

Yes he died from a heart attack. He had a mass in his lungs and was coughing a lot and thought he had pneumonia. Didn’t get the results in time, but I suspect pulmonary embolism. In 2012 he found out he had really high blood pressure but didn’t take meds regardless. In 2015 he was in heart failure due to the drugs and bp. He was a big dude and had to have been on a lot of drugs to maintain the physique he had. He was smart, but you can’t trick your body.

Sounds like me except with a cigarette hanging out my mouth too

**redz** · 06-08-2019, 08:46 PM

I seem to keep my heart rate and blood pressure perfect even on Tren because I religiously do 45 minutes 6 days a week medium intensity cardio. I can imagine the high intensity is definitely a different story though.

**MuscleScience** · 06-09-2019, 07:40 AM

I once heard a prominent physiologist say that during vigorous exercise you are 40 times more likely to die of a sudden cardiac event!

Sounds scary doesn’t it?!?

Well it’s misleading because the overall likelihood of someone dying of sudden Cardiac Death at anytime regardless of health is very very low.

Additionally the benefits of exercise on the heart are so beneficial that it out weighs any small risk of side effects overall.

**charger69** · 06-09-2019, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

I once heard a prominent physiologist say that during vigorous exercise you are 40 times more likely to die of a sudden cardiac event!

Sounds scary doesn’t it?!?

Well it’s misleading because the overall likelihood of someone dying of sudden Cardiac Death at anytime regardless of health is very very low.

Additionally the benefits of exercise on the heart are so beneficial that it out weighs any small risk of side effects overall.

Actually, when they want to see the condition of your heart, they give you a stress test.
On stage this year MS??

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**MuscleScience** · 06-09-2019, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by charger69

Actually, when they want to see the condition of your heart, they give you a stress test.
On stage this year MS??

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Lol, maybe

**Windex** · 06-09-2019, 09:52 AM

I found HIT cardio just formed a bad relationship with cardio / exercise in general. Driving to the gym and blasting on a cardio machine does not sound appetizing, and only so much music you can churn through.

Doing moderate or low intensity outdoors is a lot more appealing (to me atleast).

**simm** · 06-14-2019, 04:20 PM

Very interesting thread.
How the UFC and all MMA fighters who are abusive the gh, epo, var, test. They train explosively and I've heard of no fighter dying of aas usage links.
I run hills x10-15 times 3 X weekly and I'm on cypionate . Getting stronger and cardio no difference than before starting.

**GearHeaded** · 06-14-2019, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by simm

Very interesting thread.
How the UFC and all MMA fighters who are abusive the gh, epo, var, test. They train explosively and I've heard of no fighter dying of aas usage links.
I run hills x10-15 times 3 X weekly and I'm on cypionate. Getting stronger and cardio no difference than before starting.

MMA, Track and field , olympic athletes AAS use protocols are WAY way way different then that of bodybuilders.. they are totally fine doing HIIT cardio.

heres a track and field athlete cycle eg.
200mg EQ per week
20mg Tbol per day
2iu HGH per day

^ and thats pro level

heres a bodybuilder cycle
1500mg test per week
900mg deca per week
500mg tren per week
500mg Mast per week
100mg adrol per day
8iu HGH per day
150mcg T4 per day
40iu insulin per day

^ and thats amateur level , not the pros

**charger69** · 06-14-2019, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

MMA, Track and field , olympic athletes AAS use protocols are WAY way way different then that of bodybuilders.. they are totally fine doing HIIT cardio.

heres a track and field athlete cycle eg.
200mg EQ per week
20mg Tbol per day
2iu HGH per day

^ and thats pro level

heres a bodybuilder cycle
1500mg test per week
900mg deca per week
500mg tren per week
500mg Mast per week
100mg adrol per day
8iu HGH per day
150mcg T4 per day
40iu insulin per day

^ and thats amateur level , not the pros

I guess I’m a track & field athlete then. LOL

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**simm** · 06-15-2019, 01:59 AM

I'm lower end track and field doses lol. Thanks GH

**Obs** · 06-15-2019, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by cylon357

I like the basic theory proposed in the OP. More blood volume and thickness, when considered by itself, must make the heart work harder. Adding HIIT on top of that seems like a recipe for cardiac arrest.

I do enjoy HIIT from time to time, though, sometimes just as a change of pace (and yeah, sometimes I'm a little bit of a masochist and like to get right on the edge of 'OMG I am going to puke or pass out'). It also helps to vary the specifics of your HIIT. One of my current faves involves running on a treadmill for 3 minutes, punching the hanging bag for 3 minutes, then getting on the climber for 3 minutes. That's one round. I try to do 3 - 4 rounds. I can imagine that if my blood volume were up, I would likely be falling down by the end of round 2.

I have said a long time now medical science looks at enlargement of the heart from an ass backwards direction.

When we throw 100lbs of muscle on a regular frame it wasn't intended for, the organs enlarge to keep up.

Its just like a hydraulic pump.
You take a boom cylinder off a 450 class excavator and put it on a small tractor and it will run slow as hell because even though its the same pressure there is less volume.

Unlike a hydralic pump the heart can adapt to push more blood per pump. Enlargement of the left ventricle, hypertrophy of the heart, and hypertension.

The harder you push that heart to feed excessive amounts of blood/oxygen, the more it will grow.

Dexter Jackson attributes his being able to comoete at olympia in his 50's to the fact that he never put the strain of cardio on his heart like the other competitors.

I think GH is spot on.

Juice os not the factor. The mass added by juice is the primary factor.

**charger69** · 06-15-2019, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Obs

I have said a long time now medical science looks at enlargement of the heart from an ass backwards direction.

When we throw 100lbs of muscle on a regular frame it wasn't intended for, the organs enlarge to keep up.

Its just like a hydraulic pump.
You take a boom cylinder off a 450 class excavator and put it on a small tractor and it will run slow as hell because even though its the same pressure there is less volume.

Unlike a hydralic pump the heart can adapt to push more blood per pump. Enlargement of the left ventricle, hypertrophy of the heart, and hypertension.

The harder you push that heart to feed excessive amounts of blood/oxygen, the more it will grow.

Dexter Jackson attributes his being able to comoete at olympia in his 50's to the fact that he never put the strain of cardio on his heart like the other competitors.

I think GH is spot on.

Juice os not the factor. The mass added by juice is the primary factor.

Just go smoke your cigarettes, they are healthier!! LOL

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**Obs** · 06-15-2019, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by charger69

Just go smoke your cigarettes, they are healthier!! LOL

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Will do.

**Test Monsterone** · 06-15-2019, 05:21 PM

There are skinny guys like that dude Zyzz who die. Granted he was doing other drugs too. Just like the muscles in the body can grow from strain with steroids , so can the heart. There isn’t enough room in the chest wall to support the excess growth past a certain point and the heart weakens. I know when I am breathing heavy and my heart is pounding I feel like it’s right up against my rib cage. I’m no heavier than I was before steroids, but my HDL is worse and my hematocrit is higher. I’ll tell anybody trying to get on steroids the truth because it is what it is. We try to come up with reasons or excuses for why someone died and why we didn’t. I hope we all play it safe and pay attention to our bodies, and most importantly, stay healthy.

**charger69** · 06-15-2019, 06:23 PM

I am looking at this from another perspective.
As you use AAS, the desired effect is that your muscles grow to be able to stand a greater stress level. What happens when you stop working out? Your muscles shrink. Your heart is a muscle and there have been studies that this does occur. .

Why is an enlarged heart bad?? All of the studies that I have seen say an enlarged heart is bad because it is a symptom of another problem. If you don’t have those issues and your heart is enlarged, is it dangerous??? I could not find a study that states that it is without an underlying issue.

Once you start mentioning underlying issues that created the enlarged heart, then I am with you.

People that do Ironman competitions, marathons, etc are continuously taxing their heart . Is that considered unsafe?

I will state that AAS does screw with your cholesterol which can effect the enlargement.

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**Obs** · 06-15-2019, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by cylon357

Damn, that's a good one! I may have to do the Paul Veerhoven triology - Robocop, Starship Troopers, and Showgirls. <--- ♫ one of these things is not like the other, one of these things does not belong ♫

A master gunner seargeant I kew as a child made his recruits read the book starship troopers. He said that is the way he wished he could have trained them, live fire and the occasional casualty.

It was probably a good psychological kick in the ass for them.

**GearHeaded** · 06-17-2019, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by charger69

I am looking at this from another perspective.
As you use AAS, the desired effect is that your muscles grow to be able to stand a greater stress level. What happens when you stop working out? Your muscles shrink. Your heart is a muscle and there have been studies that this does occur. .

Why is an enlarged heart bad?? All of the studies that I have seen say an enlarged heart is bad because it is a symptom of another problem. If you don’t have those issues and your heart is enlarged, is it dangerous??? I could not find a study that states that it is without an underlying issue.

Once you start mentioning underlying issues that created the enlarged heart, then I am with you.

People that do Ironman competitions, marathons, etc are continuously taxing their heart . Is that considered unsafe?

I will state that AAS does screw with your cholesterol which can effect the enlargement.

people talk shit about bodybuilding saying its bad for your health and your likely going to die of a heart attack . well truth is, a lot of these ultra endurance sport athletes (tri athletes, marathoners) die every year in their 20s, 30s and 40s of cardiac failure. its not just bodybuilding by any means. heck there was a marathon a few weeks ago I seen in the news and a lady died of cardiac arrest 300 meters from the finish line.

one bodybuilder dies a year and its a big deal . but these endurance athletes are also dropping like flies

the truth is . the death rate is one per person and we are all going to make it. no matter what you do in life, your odds of dying of heart failure heart disease or cancer at some point in your life is nearly 100%.
its inevitable guys. we are all going to get there at some point.

"eat, drink, and be marry for tomorrow we die"

**charger69** · 06-17-2019, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

people talk shit about bodybuilding saying its bad for your health and your likely going to die of a heart attack . well truth is, a lot of these ultra endurance sport athletes (tri athletes, marathoners) die every year in their 20s, 30s and 40s of cardiac failure. its not just bodybuilding by any means. heck there was a marathon a few weeks ago I seen in the news and a lady died of cardiac arrest 300 meters from the finish line.

one bodybuilder dies a year and its a big deal . but these endurance athletes are also dropping like flies

the truth is . the death rate is one per person and we are all going to make it. no matter what you do in life, your odds of dying of heart failure heart disease or cancer at some point in your life is nearly 100%.
its inevitable guys. we are all going to get there at some point.

"eat, drink, and be marry for tomorrow we die"

You are hanging around Obs too much. LOl

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**Obs** · 06-17-2019, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by charger69

You are hanging around Obs too much. LOl

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There is a hot ass, (FKIN ROUND) ass latina that just was swaying her ass as she walked slowly past this neighborhood I been working. Pausing and teasing.

I would eat drink and marry that.
Not without a prenup tho.
Not really. She was pushing a stroller and I love my gf.

**Obs** · 06-17-2019, 01:32 PM

Its hot as shit out here.
This is kicking my ass.
Should have taken more juice and died so I wouldnt be suffering this bullshit.

Gd... Its only 83° but 70% humidity.
Swear I am losing my edge.

**GearHeaded** · 06-17-2019, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Obs

There is a hot ass, (FKIN ROUND) ass latina that just was swaying her ass as she walked slowly past this neighborhood I been working. Pausing and teasing.

I would eat drink and marry that.
Not without a prenup tho.
Not really. She was pushing a stroller and I love my gf.

my wife was just walking her dumbbells (its not a baby in the stroller, its 50 pound dumbbells for her to stay fit) around the block .. do we live in the same neighborhood

**Obs** · 06-17-2019, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

my wife was just walking her dumbbells (its not a baby in the stroller, its 50 pound dumbbells for her to stay fit) around the block .. do we live in the same neighborhood

I dont know but if so she is way hotter than the stuck up white girl that keeps coming by with her baby stroller.