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Thread: Advanced Mass Cycle

  1. #1
    Kirko is offline New Member
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    Advanced Mass Cycle

    Hello,

    I will get straight into it, im still not happy with my layout as im not 100% sure if i should take arimidex during the first estrogenic phase, also not sure if the gh and insulin should be in every phase. Maybe i should do 10mg Nolva ED during phase 1, instead of adex/very low dose adex.

    Im 6’4, 110kg, 15%bf, 26yrs old


    Planned cycle:


    ——Week 1-6 (Estrogenic Phase)
    Test E - 750mg Monday/Thursday (1,5g EW)
    EQ - 400mg Monday/Thursday (800mg EW)
    Dbol - 80mg ED

    HGH- 5iu pwo ED
    MK - 50mg ED pre bed
    Insulin (fast acting) - 10iu pre and post workout, intra muscular with the insulin so i get a nice steady slow effect during my workout. The insulin will be cycled 4weeks on and 4 weeks on with monitoring my bloodglucose levels.

    Hcg - 500iu twice a week
    Adex, letro, nolva, cialis on hand.



    ——-Week 7-12 (Anabolic Phase)

    Test E - 375mg Monday/Thursday
    Mast P/E - 75mg ED
    Deca /NPP - 450mg Monday/Thursday


    HGH- 5iu pwo ED
    MK - 25-50mg ED pre bed
    Insulin (fast acting) - 10iu pre and post workout

    Hcg - 500iu twice a week
    Adex, letro, nolva, cialis on hand.
    Will be starting with a 1/2 gram of adex eod


    ——Week 13-18 (Androgen phase)
    Test E - 250mg Monday/Friday
    Winstrol - 50mg ED
    Tren A - 75mg ED
    Mast P - 75mg ED


    HGH- 5iu pwo ED
    MK - 25-50mg ED pre bed
    Insulin (fast acting) - 10iu pre and post workout

    Hcg - 500iu twice a week
    Adex, letro, nolva, cialis on hand.
    Will be starting with a 1/2 gram of adex eod

    Not sure if i should do the monday/thursday shots or more frequent on the long esters?


    What do i need for the HGH? T4? I already have hypothyroidism, so im on 100mcg t4 a day, should i add to this?

    Is there anything i need to add? Any extras?

    Anyways, I’m trying GH’s way of cycling, so the masteron is there for its good effect with deca and tren. Winny for cortisol. And for you guys that are going to comment about the short times for EQ and Deca, there are several posts from GH about this, very good information.

    Anyways, I hope to get some serious input. I’ve done a lot of cycles. The only thing that is new for me is the Growth.

    Kind regards.

  2. #2
    Kyle1337's Avatar
    Kyle1337 is online now Associate Member
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    I feel you should switch your anabolic phase and androgen. Using the androgens shortly after you've elevated estrogen will be more beneficial. During anabolic phase you would want your estrogen relatively lower (than a typical androgen phase).

    Your 100 mcg T4 is fine.

    Also, no need for use of the AI unless you are e2 sensitive... let nolva do it's job... Or do blood work regularly to see where you are and use that for comparison.

  3. #3
    The God Himself's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle1337 View Post
    I feel you should switch your anabolic phase and androgen. Using the androgens shortly after you've elevated estrogen will be more beneficial. During anabolic phase you would want your estrogen relatively lower (than a typical androgen phase).

    Your 100 mcg T4 is fine.

    Also, no need for use of the AI unless you are e2 sensitive... let nolva do it's job... Or do blood work regularly to see where you are and use that for comparison.
    Or maybe throw some low dose tren and primo into anabolic phase and keep everything as it is except AI. Use nolva instead IF NEEDED.
    You may want to add some T3 to androgen phase while reducing T4 a little bit too.
    You could also use the insulin first thing in the morning with a protein shake as youre using mk prebed?
    Last edited by The God Himself; 09-14-2019 at 06:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Kirko is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The God Himself View Post
    Or maybe throw some low dose tren and primo into anabolic phase and keep everything as it is except AI. Use nolva instead IF NEEDED.
    You may want to add some T3 to androgen phase while reducing T4 a little bit too.
    You could also use the insulin first thing in the morning with a protein shake as youre using mk prebed?
    Hello,

    Could you explain why you would throw in low dose tren and primo into the anabolic phase? Low dose at 50mg ED?

    Im using fast acting insulin pre n post workout, could you explain a little bit more why you would prefer it after using MK pre bed?

    I feel like i should throw something more into the androgen phase if im switching it with the anabolic phase, what would you recommend? Im open for suggestions.

    Thank you

  5. #5
    The God Himself's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirko View Post
    Hello,

    Could you explain why you would throw in low dose tren and primo into the anabolic phase? Low dose at 50mg ED?

    Im using fast acting insulin pre n post workout, could you explain a little bit more why you would prefer it after using MK pre bed?

    I feel like i should throw something more into the androgen phase if im switching it with the anabolic phase, what would you recommend? Im open for suggestions.

    Thank you
    To add some androgenic load (but not too much) to anabolic phase. As GH states (and Kyle did here too) estrogen is anabolic in presence of androgens. Androgens indirectly help with muscle building process. Primo is a good anabolic imho, I have it in my TRT.
    Mk is a GH secretagogue so it will have your blood sugar at prediabetic levels with the exogenous GH you already take. Insulin works synergistically with GH by improving IGF-1 synthesis and balancing the blood sugar while driving the nutrients into muscle cells. Your fasting bloodsugar in the morning will be elevated and you can get away with a whey shake and insulin first thing in the morning. It is a good way to put your body into anabolic state as the day starts. You’ll be fuller throughout the day.

    That said, I am nowhere as knowledgeable as GH and what I say is mostly something he posted here and there in various topics.
    I think your androgen phase seems fine but let GH chime in, he would give advices much better than me regarding the phase cycling approach.
    Overall, you are planning a good cycle and seems you did your research very well. I wish you best luck and keep us posted as how it turns out for you!

  6. #6
    charger69's Avatar
    charger69 is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Did you frontload the deca ? I think in his commentary he frontloaded.


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  7. #7
    Kirko is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    Did you frontload the deca ? I think in his commentary he frontloaded.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I did not frontload the deca, I do hope that GH tunes in and get things right!

    Do you know how I should frontload the deca?

    If the deca is frontloaded, i guess the EQ, mast and test is too? Correct me if I am wrong.

  8. #8
    Kirko is offline New Member
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    Hello,

    I’ve changed the plan a bit. I hope that GH could get in here and help a bit.

    ——-Week 1-6 (Estrogenic Phase)
    Test E - 750mg Monday/Thursday
    EQ - 500mg Monday/Thursday
    Dbol - 80mg ED

    HGH- 5iu pwo ED
    MK - 25mg ED pre bed
    Nolva - 10mg ED
    Insulin (fast acting) - 10iu pre and post workout, intra muscular with the GH so i get a nice steady slow effect.

    Hcg - 500iu twice a week


    ——-Week 7-12 (Anabolic Phase)
    Test E - 375mg Monday/Thursday
    Mast P - 75mg ED
    NPP - 100-150mg ED
    Primo - 50mg ED (maybe 100mg ED)

    HGH- 5iu pwo ED
    MK - 25-50mg ED pre bed
    Insulin (fast acting) - 10iu pre and post workout

    Hcg - 500iu twice a week
    Adex, letro, nolva, cialis on hand.
    Will be starting with a 1/2 gram of adex eod


    ——Week 13-18 (Androgen phase)
    Test E - 250mg Monday/Friday
    Winstrol - 50mg ED
    Tren A - 75mg ED
    Mast P - 75mg ED

    HGH- 5iu pwo ED
    MK - 25-50mg ED pre bed
    Adex - 0.5mg EOD
    Insulin (fast acting) - 10iu pre and post workout

    Hcg - 500iu twice a week

    Let me know what you think

    Thank you.

  9. #9
    Kyle1337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirko View Post
    Hello,

    I’ve changed the plan a bit. I hope that GH could get in here and help a bit.

    ——-Week 1-6 (Estrogenic Phase)
    Test E - 750mg Monday/Thursday
    EQ - 500mg Monday/Thursday
    Dbol - 80mg ED

    HGH- 5iu pwo ED
    MK - 25mg ED pre bed
    Nolva - 10mg ED
    Insulin (fast acting) - 10iu pre and post workout, intra muscular with the GH so i get a nice steady slow effect.

    Hcg - 500iu twice a week


    ——-Week 7-12 (Anabolic Phase)
    Test E - 375mg Monday/Thursday
    Mast P - 75mg ED
    NPP - 100-150mg ED
    Primo - 50mg ED (maybe 100mg ED)

    HGH- 5iu pwo ED
    MK - 25-50mg ED pre bed
    Insulin (fast acting) - 10iu pre and post workout

    Hcg - 500iu twice a week
    Adex, letro, nolva, cialis on hand.
    Will be starting with a 1/2 gram of adex eod


    ——Week 13-18 (Androgen phase)
    Test E - 250mg Monday/Friday
    Winstrol - 50mg ED
    Tren A - 75mg ED
    Mast P - 75mg ED

    HGH- 5iu pwo ED
    MK - 25-50mg ED pre bed
    Adex - 0.5mg EOD
    Insulin (fast acting) - 10iu pre and post workout

    Hcg - 500iu twice a week

    Let me know what you think

    Thank you.
    I still think your androgen phase should come after your estrogen. Anabolic phase is last... As I mentioned you're building up estrogen to then blast heavy androgen to accompany the high estrogen. Anabolic phase is typically lower androgen and you want relatively lower estrogen (not trt estro but not andro estro...)

    Also, in my experience coming off heavy androgen without a phase after I always crash and look like shit and get moody.

    Just my 2 cents.

  10. #10
    Kirko is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle1337 View Post
    I still think your androgen phase should come after your estrogen. Anabolic phase is last... As I mentioned you're building up estrogen to then blast heavy androgen to accompany the high estrogen. Anabolic phase is typically lower androgen and you want relatively lower estrogen (not trt estro but not andro estro...)

    Also, in my experience coming off heavy androgen without a phase after I always crash and look like shit and get moody.

    Just my 2 cents.
    What do you think about running Deca /NPP in the end of the cycle? Actually i wanted to deca/npp in the first phase, but it does not make sense.

    So basically, switch anabolic phase with the androgenic phase, and im good to to?

    I have mast and primo in phase 2, just for the reason you are mentioning.

  11. #11
    GearHeaded's Avatar
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    it really depends on the situation and context . for some guys they may end with anabolic phase because they are going from a bulk to a recomp .. some guys may prefer to go with an androgen phase at the end instead because they are going into a cut or going for a more cosmetic look at the end of their cycle..

    I personally generally end phases with an androgen phase (I may also start out with a combination of an estrogen and androgen phase together ,, especially to help put on size quickly) . I also may not have a pure anabolic phase at all and just keep anabolics in the background during the whole duration of the cycle .

    just depends on personal goals . so whats your number one goal with this cycle ? to just put on as much muscle as possible ?

  12. #12
    GearHeaded's Avatar
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    couple of other things -

    it looks like your not running an AI during your estrogen phase (which is good) .. but then in your Androgen phase you have no estrogenic compounds that aromatize, yet your running a high dose of Arimidex here . curious what your thinking is here ? your likely going to crush your E levels in this phase.
    now of course there is a time and a place to have anti estrogen phases and run an AI (I usually combine this with a cortisol suppression phase)
    I think somewhere in this thread you can see how I've implemented anti estrogen phases before
    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...protocols.html


    also, at some point in this plan your going to want to add in T4 . between the HGH and the Tren your natty production will be surpassed.. plus T4 is going to have additional synergestic effects.


    if your going to go as high as 50mg of MK677.. I would split the dosage. 25mg at night before bed then 25mg the next morning.


    also, keep in mind again depending on your goals , you can always combine phases . you can have a 'volumization' phase that includes both high amounts of estrogen with high amounts of androgens. you don't have to have separate estrogen and androgen phases,, especially if gaining size is the main goal
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 09-18-2019 at 09:17 AM.

  13. #13
    Kirko is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    couple of other things -

    it looks like your not running an AI during your estrogen phase (which is good) .. but then in your Androgen phase you have no estrogenic compounds that aromatize, yet your running a high dose of Arimidex here . curious what your thinking is here ? your likely going to crush your E levels in this phase.
    now of course there is a time and a place to have anti estrogen phases and run an AI (I usually combine this with a cortisol suppression phase)
    I think somewhere in this thread you can see how I've implemented anti estrogen phases before
    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...protocols.html


    also, at some point in this plan your going to want to add in T4 . between the HGH and the Tren your natty production will be surpassed.. plus T4 is going to have additional synergestic effects.


    if your going to go as high as 50mg of MK677.. I would split the dosage. 25mg at night before bed then 25mg the next morning.


    also, keep in mind again depending on your goals , you can always combine phases . you can have a 'volumization' phase that includes both high amounts of estrogen with high amounts of androgens. you don't have to have separate estrogen and androgen phases,, especially if gaining size is the main goal
    Hello,
    Thank you for the reply.

    My main goal is to put on some serious mass. Yeah I removed the AI from the androgenic phase.

    I do have hypothyroidism, im on 100mcg T4 a day, what should I add to this and in which phase?

    How would you implement the anti-estrogen phase? I do have winstrol in phase 3 for the cortisol, do I remove this and add a ”phase 4” for the winny and AI?

    If my main goal is to put on muscle mass/size, how would you set your phases up? Androgenic last?

    Thank you

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