TRT + Primo - Cycle or Cruise?

Came here two years back as I felt lethargic all day and had the feeling that it could be hormone related.

probably didn't eat enough and and worked out too often.

In the meantime, I've been on trt for the last two years since my labs came in exteremely low.

much better now with 200mg test a week.

never done any cycles. experimented with SARMS, however.

want to go a step further and add some lean muscle. the goal is to keep the low body fat percentage and add some pounds of muscle.

I'm not a bodybuilder - but more after the fitness model look.

after doing my research, I believe primo is ideal for me.

now I consider two options:

add low dose primo (200mg) and run in for somewhat like 16-20 weeks

OR

cycle primo for 12 weeks at around 400-600mg.

which option does make more sense in your opinion and why?

again. I'm not after huge gains, but I wouldn't mind adding a few pounds.

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

I'm not a bodybuilder - but more after the fitness model look..

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I can likely guarantee to you that most of us could "prescribe" you 1000mg of tren per week 1000mg of test, 600mg deca, insulin, HGH, and everything else and you'd still NOT look like a bodybuilder (and prob not a fitness model either)

thats not a dig against you personally ,, thats just the honest truth.

the reason you want to look like a "fitness model" (your obviously not there yet or you wouldn't say that) instead of a "bodybuilder" is because you never could look like a bodybuilder no matter how hard you tried or how many drugs you took in the first place

sorry, just in a brutally honest mood today :)

having said that .. Primo is a great drug especially adding to TRT protocol . but its a long term and a financial commitment .. don't expect a low dose 6 week run of primo to change your life .. commit to 12 months higher dose and then maybe you'll start looking like a 'fitness model'

doc prescribed primo is about 350+ $ a bottle . you'll go through 2+ bottles per month at least


I love me some primo . there may be better options for you though (again saying you don't want to be a bodybuilder, yet you don't even look like a fitness model tells me you don't have great genetics)

Thanks for your answer (and your honesty).

I'm having a hard time to gain mass, that's for sure.
And I don't like to look bulky at all.

I'm lean. And I'd like to keep the current body fat percentage... Just, as said, a little bit more size.

You recommend 12 months of primo. Isn't that way too long?

As mentioned, I consider that duration, but low dose only.

Other question - what gives better results? Cycling primo or staying on it for a long time?

Which one is the 'healthier' option of those two?

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

Thanks for your answer (and your honesty).

I'm having a hard time to gain mass, that's for sure.
And I don't like to look bulky at all.

I'm lean. And I'd like to keep the current body fat percentage... Just, as said, a little bit more size.

You recommend 12 months of primo. Isn't that way too long?

As mentioned, I consider that duration, but low dose only.

Other question - what gives better results? Cycling primo or staying on it for a long time?

Which one is the 'healthier' option of those two?

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My personal 2 cents. Long game. My last primo run was 20 weeks and I felt like it was to short.

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

Thanks for your answer (and your honesty).

I'm having a hard time to gain mass, that's for sure.
And I don't like to look bulky at all.

I'm lean. And I'd like to keep the current body fat percentage... Just, as said, a little bit more size.

You recommend 12 months of primo. Isn't that way too long?

As mentioned, I consider that duration, but low dose only.

Other question - what gives better results? Cycling primo or staying on it for a long time?

Which one is the 'healthier' option of those two?

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Usually in these situations your best bet is high dose, long term. Primo’s pretty mellow stuff. Get your CBC and lipids checked every 3 or 4 months if you’re worried about it.

High dose long term is neither safe nor affordable in my opinion.
All I wanted to know is how gains can be compared when cruising on primo for 12 months vs 12 weeks high dose cycle.
What's your thoughts?

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

High dose long term is neither safe nor affordable in my opinion.
All I wanted to know is how gains can be compared when cruising on primo for 12 months vs 12 weeks high dose cycle.
What's your thoughts?

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You are asking to compare apples to oranges - there's too many variables.

150mg Primo per week is 7800mg for the year and the same amount equates to 650mg as a 12 week cycle.

makes sense. And what about from a health point of view?

Guess bloods could look good whilst on 150mg primo whereas I'm not sure sure on high dose... thoughts?

the 12 month recommendation was based on the idea of adding Primo as part of a TRT protocol , not necessarily a cycle. you can ( I have) get Primo prescribed to you as part of TRT. 300mg a week is enough for 'cruising'. primo is a very safe and clean drug (its even given to pre mature born infants). you can be on it long term. its a drug I often recommend to guys that come off cycle and 'cruise'..
however if you were wanting to run like a 12+ week long actual cycle or "blast", then I would consider other options. 600-800mg of primo stacked with an androgen. or if putting on more size is your goal, then I'd go a different route all together

great. Thank you!

Apparently, TRT protocols differ from country to country.

Where I live, you can get anavar as part of TRT. However, not primo.

What things did you notice when you added primo to TRT?

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

great. Thank you!

Apparently, TRT protocols differ from country to country.

Where I live, you can get anavar as part of TRT. However, not primo.

What things did you notice when you added primo to TRT?

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Primo is one of the best drugs out there in regards to simply up regulating protein synthesis. even in a calorie deficit and doing a ton of cardio Primo makes you hold onto muscle (again because of the high degree of protein synthesis).

when I added Primo to my TRT (this was years back) I did not notice anything like being on cycle at all .. this is a good thing. now sure guys that are new to AAS when they do their first few cycles always want to "feel" like they are on something .. however, a lot of experienced AAS users get tired of that feeling and its just a nice break to run something like Primo and not really feel anything like being 'on' a heavy cycle..
I overall felt good, no negative side effects. no getting out of breath just tying my shoes, no trouble sleeping, etc.. just slow and steady progress in building muscle tissue.


as far as clients go . I generally don't have them run Primobolan unless on a cruise (its awesome for that), or during phase 1 of contest prep when calories begin getting cut and cardio picks up (its awesome for retaining muscle), OR for a new user to AAS (Primo is a great first cycle drug)..
but for a seasoned AAS user on a heavy blast trying to get huge, I don't recommend it often especially not as a main compound (it may just be a back ground anabolic within a certain phase)

I belong in the 'first cycle' group. Haven't touched anything than plain test (TRT) and some sarms to get my feet wet.
Guess even as first time user primo would have to be dosed quite high in a cycle, right?

I might do the same as you, add it to my trt regime - at least for some months - and see how my body reacts.

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

I belong in the 'first cycle' group. Haven't touched anything than plain test (TRT) and some sarms to get my feet wet.
Guess even as first time user primo would have to be dosed quite high in a cycle, right?

I might do the same as you, add it to my trt regime - at least for some months - and see how my body reacts.

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absolutely nothing wrong with adding a low dose of Primo to your TRT for awhile ,, then you can always blast it for a few weeks here and there as well.

so run 300mg for the first 6 weeks or so.. then spend weeks 6-10 blasting it at 600+, then go back to 300, etc.

Guess I'm going to follow your advice and upping the dose whenever a beach holiday is around. I read that one looks full even on low calories. Can I expect that even from 300mg?

I know that many would answer 'try it out'. In fact, Ive heard it at least 20 times already. But I'd like to inform myself and gather as much information as possible instead of simply putting something in my body and see what is does...

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I can likely guarantee to you that most of us could "prescribe" you 1000mg of tren per week 1000mg of test, 600mg deca, insulin, HGH, and everything else and you'd still NOT look like a bodybuilder (and prob not a fitness model either)

thats not a dig against you personally ,, thats just the honest truth.

the reason you want to look like a "fitness model" (your obviously not there yet or you wouldn't say that) instead of a "bodybuilder" is because you never could look like a bodybuilder no matter how hard you tried or how many drugs you took in the first place

sorry, just in a brutally honest mood today :)

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He just reminded me of 20 years old me :bbAily: hahhahahaha

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

Guess I'm going to follow your advice and upping the dose whenever a beach holiday is around. I read that one looks full even on low calories. Can I expect that even from 300mg?

I know that many would answer 'try it out'. In fact, Ive heard it at least 20 times already. But I'd like to inform myself and gather as much information as possible instead of simply putting something in my body and see what is does...

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Many people say try it out because it's biology, not math.
There are too many variables, no one can say, "Take X dose for Y time and get Z results." That's going to depend on your diet, training, genetics, etc. Even how full you look are going to depend on those things as well to answer your question.

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Originally Posted by Dgs59

He just reminded me of 20 years old me :bbAily: hahhahahaha

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20 year old me would have been like gram of test, check. Gram of Tren, check. 600mg of... gram of deca, check.

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Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars

20 year old me would have been like gram of test, check. Gram of Tren, check. 600mg of... gram of deca, check.

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...but would you do it again?

well I'm not 20 anymore .. I'm a responsible 42 ;) but my last major blast was 2 grams of test, 1 gram of tren, 500mg Mast (after transitioning from a gram of deca), with dbol pre workout and 40iu of insulin per day.

I won't be doing shit like that often though, thats for sure. maybe once a year and only for short burst.. I'd rather stick to phase cycling and compound rotation rather then running just a couple compounds at high dose (well depends on the compound)

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

well I'm not 20 anymore .. I'm a responsible 42 ;) but my last major blast was 2 grams of test, 1 gram of tren, 500mg Mast (after transitioning from a gram of deca), with dbol pre workout and 40iu of insulin per day.

I won't be doing shit like that often though, thats for sure. maybe once a year and only for short burst.. I'd rather stick to phase cycling and compound rotation rather then running just a couple compounds at high dose (well depends on the compound)

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I'm somewhat curious about how you look to be honest.
But I guess I won't find any pictures on this forum, right? ;)

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

I'm somewhat curious about how you look to be honest.
But I guess I won't find any pictures on this forum, right? ;)

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well just cause you experiment with a lot of gear doesn't mean your going to look jacked and huge.. a lot of the experiments I do are just learning experiences and testing things out on my own body . as a gym owner, trainer, and bodybuilding coach I'm not going to help clients run various compounds and stacks or drugs that I haven't first learned first hand about myself .

but I do the best with what I'm working with.. I've had 9 different surgeries , been bed ridden over a year, spent time in a wheel chair and then a walker. lost about 40 pounds of muscle through all that crap . I'm trying to make a come back though and get more size back.

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this is my current shape post surgery post accidents .. I've gained most my weight back, but still need to add about 20 pounds over the next year or two.
5'9" , 230 pounds and lean is what I'm shooting for

still impressive though.

great job.

and love the mentality. it definitely makes sense what you're saying.

Can't imagine to advise someone to go keto, low carb, carb cycbling or whatever when I never tried myself. The same principle applies to drugs, I guess.

Alright - thanks for all the information. Appreciate the help.

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

well just cause you experiment with a lot of gear doesn't mean your going to look jacked and huge.. a lot of the experiments I do are just learning experiences and testing things out on my own body . as a gym owner, trainer, and bodybuilding coach I'm not going to help clients run various compounds and stacks or drugs that I haven't first learned first hand about myself .

but I do the best with what I'm working with.. I've had 9 different surgeries , been bed ridden over a year, spent time in a wheel chair and then a walker. lost about 40 pounds of muscle through all that crap . I'm trying to make a come back though and get more size back.

Attachment 177179
Attachment 177180

this is my current shape post surgery post accidents .. I've gained most my weight back, but still need to add about 20 pounds over the next year or two.
5'9" , 230 pounds and lean is what I'm shooting for

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Looking great for 42... SHIT for 22.

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

...but would you do it again?

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Yep. Although I admit there are more functional ways to make these things work. But when in doubt you can’t miss by shotgunning a massive amount of everything.

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Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars

20 year old me would have been like gram of test, check. Gram of Tren, check. 600mg of... gram of deca, check.

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Hahahha I remember how scared i was of test when I was 20, telling my gym mentor that I don't want to look like him :) because he is too big and I don't want to look like a bodybuilder where he had full access to all the legit gears and I refused because I thought I will look like a bodybuilder if I take them lol funny. Still makes me laugh today

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Originally Posted by Dgs59

Hahahha I remember how scared i was of test when I was 20, telling my gym mentor that I don't want to look like him :) because he is too big and I don't want to look like a bodybuilder where he had full access to all the legit gears and I refused because I thought I will look like a bodybuilder if I take them lol funny. Still makes me laugh today

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It's not necessarily fear that holds me back.

I surely have a lot of respect of all those drugs - if I can use them without a high risk of fcking up my health, then that's great.
That's also the reason I don't intend to go on crazy cycles and rather stay on trt and try different compounds every now and then.

From what I've read, tren is tempting for your but all the sides your get? Na, I rather stay away from it it.

But these are my thoughts for just now - maybe it's going to change.

Health is important to me. But so are gains. Kind of a conflict of interest, huh? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

It's not necessarily fear that holds me back.

I surely have a lot of respect of all those drugs - if I can use them without a high risk of fcking up my health, then that's great.
That's also the reason I don't intend to go on crazy cycles and rather stay on trt and try different compounds every now and then.

From what I've read, tren is tempting for your but all the sides your get? Na, I rather stay away from it it.

But these are my thoughts for just now - maybe it's going to change.

Health is important to me. But so are gains. Kind of a conflict of interest, huh? ;)

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They're synthetic hormones not pcp. Most people feel a certain kind of way about running heavy doses of trenbolone, but do you notice it rarely stops them from doing it? A heavy androgen load can make you feel kind of wild, but it’s usually associated with a calorie restricted diet, which is already making you cranky. Most steroids with don’t feel like anything or they give you a heightened sense of well being.

Now you should keep an eye on your health and make sure your blood pressure isn’t going crazy or anything. Getting an ekg every couple years of you can afford it is a great idea even if you’re not on gear.

just don’t get the idea you’re gonna bang some Tren and get locked in the gremlin boogie nightmare for 8 weeks. I mean if something starts fucking with you, you can always just stop taking it.

the health risks associated with AAS use is often times extremely exaggerated and over stated. they are 'hormones' not mind altering drugs .. Tylenol, which can be picked up at any corner store around the world for a few bucks, is far more dangerous and caused tons of harm and thousands of deaths. easy to over dose. but AAS , heck I'll give you 5 bottles of deca or test and you couldn't over dose or probably barely even harm your heath even if you tried to. whereas a simple mistake or misreading of dosage from one bottle of Tylenol can lead to major problems.

the media just likes to demonize AAS usage. thousands of people die every year from basic OTC meds,, yet theres not any recorded deaths from AAS ie, "hormone" over dose that I'm aware in the 50 year history of its usage.

in fact, most AAS are actually used in medicine to treat wasting disease, help the body heal, treat aging, and prolong life expectancy.. AAS are used in anti aging clinics for these purposes (yet the media will make you think they will shorten your life)..
from pre mature new born infants , to Aids patients, to the elderly .. plenty of them all take AAS to extend their life and improve their health


note- I'm only talking AAS . Not PED's .. theres much more danger with other PEDs, stimulants, diuretics, etc.

note - of course long term over abuse of anything can be harmful to your health, just like 2 glasses of wine a night has health benefits but 2 bottles of wine a night has health consequences

Well, we still have to differentiate...

In medicine, they dosages are often much lower.

I agree that there is probably nothing wrong with it as long as you periodically check health markers and make sure you live a healthy lifestyle.

On the other hand, if you absuse AAS like some freaks in the fitness industry, I'm sure you'd put your health at risk and even shorten your life.

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

Well, we still have to differentiate...

In medicine, they dosages are often much lower.

I agree that there is probably nothing wrong with it as long as you periodically check health markers and make sure you live a healthy lifestyle.

On the other hand, if you absuse AAS like some freaks in the fitness industry, I'm sure you'd put your health at risk and even shorten your life.

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yes, the "poison" is always based on the DOSAGE ..

example - cyanide is not poisonous, unless you take the correct dosage of it .. water is also not poisonous either, however if you drank too much in one sitting your kidneys will shut down and you'll die . its all a matter of DOSAGE

drugs that are generally considered safe have a very large span between whats considered an effective dose compared to a deadly dose..

example , if a drug has an effective dosage rating of 10mg ,, but the over dosage or toxicity point is 20,000mg then that would be a safe drug because of such a large span or range..
but a drug that has an effective dosage rating of 10mg, but an over dosage rating of 100mg. then that is a fairly dangerous drug.

in this regards . AAS are some of the safest drugs ever produced.

If budget is a concern then there are alternatives to Primo.

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Originally Posted by Windex

If budget is a concern then there are alternatives to Primo.

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what would you suggest instead? deca?

If I can minimize the health risks just a tiny bit but have to pay a higher price, I go with that. Primo it is for now.

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Originally Posted by certainlyjacked

Well, we still have to differentiate...

In medicine, they dosages are often much lower.

I agree that there is probably nothing wrong with it as long as you periodically check health markers and make sure you live a healthy lifestyle.

On the other hand, if you absuse AAS like some freaks in the fitness industry, I'm sure you'd put your health at risk and even shorten your life.

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AAS isn’t what’s putting their life at risk. Weighing over 300 pounds is taxing their heart and organs. Now go ahead and add in a generic pre disposition to heart disease and you have an issue.

A lot of those guys are on recs too. Doing a lot of blow with 15% more blood in your body, when you already weigh 300 pounds beats you up pretty good.