Beta blockers and clen = bad mix?

[Atomini]

As many of you may know, I have PTSD. I was given beta blockers to assist in easing the anxiety caused by PTSD episodes. I had a very bad episode flare up about 3 or 4 days ago, and i've been on a cycle for almost 4 weeks now with clen included. And boy did clen make the whole thing FAR FAR worse than ever before.

I was tempted to take the beta blockers as I normally would during a bad episode, but the problem is that beta blockers block the actions of catecholamines on beta receptors on cells in the body. Using straight logic, I don't think it would cause a horrid life-threatening effect if I used beta blockers while on clen, but then again I don't know for 100% certain, so I didn't use the beta blockers and I just fought those bad couple of days through.

Clen binds to beta receptors all over the body (fat cells as well as heart cells). Beta blockers do the exact opposite and block hormones like epinephrine and clen from doing this.

I'm wondering if it would just simply compete for the receptors or if something worse might happen that i'm not aware of.

[wormwood]

Leaving the science of physiology alone and just speaking as a concerned human being...leave the clen alone man...seriously....you know you don't need it, especially if it is having a negative effect on your psychology. Cut that shit out....I't's not even gonna make that big of a difference anyways.

[wormwood]

Also...beta blockers cause a significant decrease in athletic performance...another reason why I would say to stear clear of the clen.

[MuscleScience]

Taking the two would be counter productive. One takes a beta blocker to decrease the overall excitation of the system. Clen would do nothing but counteract that effect. Thus what is the point in the first place to taking a beta blocker?

[Atomini]

This is the last time I am ever using clen. I've used it a few times years ago, and I hated it. The only reason i'm using it right now is because I a friend gave it to me because he didn't need it. A shame to have it go to waste, but you are right.

I found this on pubmed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7603242

But I can't see the study

[Atomini]

Taking the two would be counter productive. One takes a beta blocker to decrease the overall excitation of the system. Clen would do nothing but counteract that effect. Thus what is the point in the first place to taking a beta blocker?

Why would the clen somehow gain the upper hand on the beta blockers? There must be a factor in determining which substance does its job over the other when competing for the same receptors.

[MuscleScience]

Why would the clen somehow gain the upper hand on the beta blockers? There must be a factor in determining which substance does its job over the other when competing for the same receptors.

The affinity for a compound to bind to a particular receptor given all other factors are the same is generally what determines how much of an effect that two competing compounds can exert when in the presense of each other.

[Atomini]

Dose related as well, I assume?

Would you then compare the situation of clen vs beta blockers to the situation of nolvadex vs estrogen?

[MuscleScience]

Dose related as well, I assume?

Would you then compare the situation of clen vs beta blockers to the situation of nolvadex vs estrogen?

Dose does also have a relation. If you have more of compound X then there is physically more of that compound to occupy the receptors vs that of compound Y.

However compound Y may have an affinity to bind to the receptor that is so strong that compound X may be knocked off the receptor or compound Y may actually occupy that receptor forever. An example of this is that of Carbon Monoxide vs that of Oxygen in the hemoglobin molecule. CO binds at 100,000x stronger to hemoglobin than that of Oxygen. So Oxygen can not bind to the hemoglobin that is already bound up with CO.

A better comparison or example would be histamine H1 vs something like benadryl (Diphenhydramine hydrochloride).

Benadryl binds to the Histamine H1 receptor and blocks completely the action of Histamine and its effects.

Nolvadex is a estrogen mimicing molecule and binds to the ER receptor and causes some but not all of the effects that a regular Estrogen molecule would effect. Thus "selectively" blocking some of the least desired effects. Thus why its classified as a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator