Increase dosage or extend cycle?

[BluPhin]

I'm looking for opinions on my upcoming cycle. I already know drill, so here's the stats:
age: 48
height: 6'3"
weight: 220
bf%: 15% (u.s.navy calculator)
training exp.: 5 yrs
cycle exp.: first cycle was 2x-250mg test c/wk for 15 weeks. I used AI and hcg throughout cycle. I used clomid and nolva for PCT. Results were good in that I retained ~12 lbs. after completion of PCT. Strength increases were very good across the board. I ate like a mf'er so it wasn't all lean muscle.

My next cycle would look something like this:
test e: 2x-250mg/wk (week 1 - 15)
dbol: 50mg/day (week 1 - 4)
arimidex: 0.25mg/day (week 1 - 15)
hcg: 250iu the day preceeding test inject (week 1 - 15)
NAC: 1200mg/day (week 1 - 4)
clomid: 50mg/day (week 18 - 22)
nolva: 20mg/day (week 18 - 22)

This is my quandary. I have a self imposed policy not to accumulate or warehouse gear (my wife is not hip to AAS). Therefore, when my cycle is completed, all remaining gear and ancillaries are disposed. I have 3-10ml vials of test e 250. So essentially I have 7500mg of test e to work with. Would it be preferable to increase my dosage so that I can complete my cycle in 12 weeks instead of 15 weeks? 7500mg/12weeks= 625mg/wk. Is that too high for a second cycle? My first cycle was 15 weeks and it seemed that the last few weeks I had hit a point of diminishing returns.

[Capebuffalo]

12 weeks is plenty but if your still making gains at the 12 week mark another 2 weeks won't kill you. Why the dbol this time? I would stick with test only again. IMHO

[BluPhin]

^ I wanted to try the dbol because it was slightly discouraging last cycle when it took 30+ days for the gear to come on. For me, its more of a motivational factor to get a strong start right out of the gate.

[Capebuffalo]

^ I wanted to try the dbol because it was slightly discouraging last cycle when it took 30+ days for the gear to come on. For me, its more of a motivational factor to get a strong start right out of the gate.

E and C take 4-5 weeks to kick in. What were your gains then and how much have you kept?

If you want faster get prop. But that's an eod injection

[BluPhin]

It did take all of 4 weeks to kick in. When it kicked in, my strength increase was significant. It took a few more weeks before I noticed my mass gains. In total, I gained 16 pounds and kept 12 after PCT. As I mentioned in OP, I ate like a mf'er and not all the weight was lean muscle.

[Capebuffalo]

IMHO I'd run test only again at 500 mg per week. Ai hcg then pct

How long has it been since your last cycle?

[BluPhin]

Last cycle completed 3 months ago. I was not planning to start next cycle until next month.

[Capebuffalo]

Last cycle completed 3 months ago. I was not planning to start next cycle until next month.

Have you had any blood work done to see if you've recovered?

[BluPhin]

^ not yet. planning bw week before cycle to get baseline. my insurance does not cover trt/hrt or anything remotely affiliated with this. therefore, I have to pay for all tests out of pocket. this can be very costly so I like to test as few times as necessary. When you say recovered, what specific values are you referring to?

[G0D]

totally agree on dbol, for me it took 5 faaarking weeks for teh test to kick in ! and my appetite barely went up teh first few weeks and i ws still chugging down food and shakes.. felt like throwing up most of teh time..and since it was my first cycle i was starting to get depressed if i wasted so much money on fake gear and food for the beginning weeks just to get fat and then test kicked in and rest is history.. tehy say dbol increases appetite as well ( could some one confirm this). so why wait ?

[bigsiv]

Not a big fan of dbol personally I think the gains made are due to water retention and the bloated look ain't pretty. IMO 12 weeks is ideal your gains are slowing down therefore the risk/reward of sides/ gains aren't with it. 625mgs of test a week is fine but you won't get 10ml out of each vial so be wary of that fact

[BluPhin]

^ Yeah, you never get 10ml out of 10ml vial. Maybe target 1.2ml per pin instead of 1.25ml.

[Red Bastard]

I'm curious about your recovery, at 48. More on the how you feel side of it, than on the bloodwork side. Seems that many who cycle, at your age, just opt to blast and cruise, instead of dealing with the yo yo of coming off. At 44, that's what I've chosen, for better or for worse... When on cycle, did your wife not notice? Did she appreciate the "extra wood"? My girlfriend certainly does, and, thankfully, supports me in my useage.

[BluPhin]

I'm curious about your recovery, at 48. More on the how you feel side of it, than on the bloodwork side. Seems that many who cycle, at your age, just opt to blast and cruise, instead of dealing with the yo yo of coming off. At 44, that's what I've chosen, for better or for worse... When on cycle, did your wife not notice? Did she appreciate the "extra wood"? My girlfriend certainly does, and, thankfully, supports me in my useage.

I felt great from the time I first started the cycle until now, 3 months later. I never suffered any sides like gyno, acne, mood swings, etc (I did have some erectile disfunction, but that was pre-existing). Because I never went through a recovery period per se, I do not know what the term recovery really means, what to look for. The only difference I noticed was that after week 11 or 12 the gains came to an abrupt halt.

[Capebuffalo]

Well you just answered your question on extending the cycle. If it cam to a stop @ 11-12 weeks. No need to go further. You could up the dose but there is no need. You will still have great gains with just test.

[BluPhin]

Well you just answered your question on extending the cycle. If it cam to a stop @ 11-12 weeks. No need to go further. You could up the dose but there is no need. You will still have great gains with just test.

The problem is, when my cycle is completed I discard everything left over. Cycling for 12 weeks at 500mg/wk = 6000mg. I have 7500mg to use. Therefore, I would be throwing away 1500mg test e. That would make me cry!

[Chx beach 79]

The problem is, when my cycle is completed I discard everything left over. Cycling for 12 weeks at 500mg/wk = 6000mg. I have 7500mg to use. Therefore, I would be throwing away 1500mg test e. That would make me cry!

It's like an alcoholic trying to throw away a half empty beer! Lol

[G0D]

knock ! knock ! does dbol increase appetite ????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Capebuffalo]

knock ! knock ! does dbol increase appetite ????????????????????????????????????????????????

Please share your experience with dbol.

[G0D]

dude wtf ? if i had used it wudnt i noe the answer... jeez !

[BluPhin]

I have never used it before, so I can't speak from an experience. But there is a thread here:
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-increase.html

[cj220]

If u start the dbol run the test a xtra 2-3weeks...For blood test labcorp does them for around 125,but u can go to there site ask for a female test but type in u want male test done and get it for 65$...PM me for details and discounts

[Buster Brown]

Keep in mind that if you are going to use Dbol that you are going to add some water weight. Dbol can be thought of as easy come, easy go. Just something to chew on if you are concerned about gaining and losing water weight.

[BluPhin]

I have yet to hear anybody recommend dbol as an effective form of AAS. How in the hell has it survived for the past 50 years as a bodybuilding steroid? If it offers only health risks and side effects with no benefits, it would seem that it would have faded into obsolescence by now. Anyway, I am going to use it on this cycle as planned. Worse case, I will be on here 6 months from now warning others to avoid it, lol.

[Fcarey32]

I have yet to hear anybody recommend dbol as an effective form of AAS. How in the hell has it survived for the past 50 years as a bodybuilding steroid? If it offers only health risks and side effects with no benefits, it would seem that it would have faded into obsolescence by now. Anyway, I am going to use it on this cycle as planned. Worse case, I will be on here 6 months from now warning others to avoid it, lol.

I mean you get good strength gains, but the negatives outweigh the positives by far if you ask me

[BluPhin]

^that seems to be the consistent sentiment I hear from experienced users of dbol. As for me, i already bought it so I'm going to try it. Who knows, my first cycle with dbol may be my last.

[crazy mike]

Straight up, in my opinion, at your age and what you said about your cycle prior I say. Drop the Dbol you will gain all water weight. Up the dose to what ever works out for 11-12 weeks because you will plateau again. Maybe even sooner than last cycle. So there go the increased dose. At the end if you want to shed some water and harden as you keep those gains I would add some Winstrol. At 50 mg ed.

I've done this a few times and it always amazes me how I look ending up. You could do the same with some Masteron also to help you stay hard as you work to and thru your finish. ...crazy mike


PS: edit...guess I was too late on that one !!! ...cm

[crazy mike]

I have yet to hear anybody recommend dbol as an effective form of AAS. How in the hell has it survived for the past 50 years as a bodybuilding steroid? If it offers only health risks and side effects with no benefits, it would seem that it would have faded into obsolescence by now. Anyway, I am going to use it on this cycle as planned. Worse case, I will be on here 6 months from now warning others to avoid it, lol.

^^IN bold. Because the boys that want that big bulky look when the have there cloths on and don't care about looking lean and hard use it. It's an intermediate compound for the ones that just want a BIG look. ....crazy mike
Oh and for pure strength gains. Remember when power lifting at some point mass moves mass. Now take that with a grain of salt. ...cm

[toilet]

I think your best option is to not bother with d Bol and to simply front load the test so it kicks in faster and you get it all used.

1250mg week 1 and 2 and 500 thereafter

[crazy mike]

Hey "BluPhin" what the heck man , I forgot...you can just sent the excess over to my place. Ha ha...stay cool man ...cm

[Far from massive]

Bluefin,

Keep in mind you rarely will get 10 1 ml shots out of a 10 ml vial. Due to loosing some in the syringe each time and leaving some in the bottle and the temptation for makers to only put 9.5mls in a bottle its very likely that you will get 9 1ml shots per 10ml vial. At this rate you will only be wasting 3 mls at the end of the 12 wk cycle.

As to the Dbol, while I do not use Dbol on a continual basis for the first month due to liver problems (HepC) I sometimes add it an hour before my workout on leg days or any day where I really want to kick ass, using Dbol in this fashion for me does not cause bloating or other problems however it certainly does motivate me to kill a leg workout due to the strength/mood increase seen.

I would definitely stick with your plan to run blood just before you start the cycle. IMHO each time you run a cycle and each year you get older the ability to recover quickly diminishes so while you most likely dodged a bullet the first time (based on your mood and lack of problems during PCT you may not always fare so well. While its costly you will never know where you stood before the cycle and therefore will never be able ascertain the problem if after the cycle and PCT you are not feeling the same...its really great to have these numbers to look back on to insure that you are fully recovered before starting another cycle.

Best wishes on your cycle and gains. By the way if you have not read Marcus's thread priming for a cycle it is a great read on how to achieve maximum gains by preparing nutritionally for the cycle.

FFM

[Far from massive]

knock ! knock ! does dbol increase appetite ????????????????????????????????????????????????

Always best to start your own thread when you have questions outside the original posts aim rather than getting pissed when no one answers. Sometimes the OP will get upset for stepping on their thread....however Bluefin is certainly not one of those people...very decent of you to Bluefin.

PS IMHO the change in appetite comes due to Dbol stirring up the stomach so to speak. For me this does indeed cause me to eat like a horse, however for my friend its just the opposite for him, when he does Dbol his stomach is tied up in knots and he is unable to eat to the point where gains suffer.

[BluPhin]

Bluefin,

Keep in mind you rarely will get 10 1 ml shots out of a 10 ml vial. Due to loosing some in the syringe each time and leaving some in the bottle and the temptation for makers to only put 9.5mls in a bottle its very likely that you will get 9 1ml shots per 10ml vial. At this rate you will only be wasting 3 mls at the end of the 12 wk cycle.

As to the Dbol, while I do not use Dbol on a continual basis for the first month due to liver problems (HepC) I sometimes add it an hour before my workout on leg days or any day where I really want to kick ass, using Dbol in this fashion for me does not cause bloating or other problems however it certainly does motivate me to kill a leg workout due to the strength/mood increase seen.

I would definitely stick with your plan to run blood just before you start the cycle. IMHO each time you run a cycle and each year you get older the ability to recover quickly diminishes so while you most likely dodged a bullet the first time (based on your mood and lack of problems during PCT you may not always fare so well. While its costly you will never know where you stood before the cycle and therefore will never be able ascertain the problem if after the cycle and PCT you are not feeling the same...its really great to have these numbers to look back on to insure that you are fully recovered before starting another cycle.

Best wishes on your cycle and gains. By the way if you have not read Marcus's thread priming for a cycle it is a great read on how to achieve maximum gains by preparing nutritionally for the cycle.

FFM

I'm intrigued by your method of dbol use. This may be something I would consider as an alternative to a cycle with dbol. What dosage dbol do you use on leg days?

[BluPhin]

^^IN bold. Because the boys that want that big bulky look when the have there cloths on and don't care about looking lean and hard use it. It's an intermediate compound for the ones that just want a BIG look. ....crazy mike
Oh and for pure strength gains. Remember when power lifting at some point mass moves mass. Now take that with a grain of salt. ...cm

Right on CM. I have heard fables of explosive strength while on dbol. Although I don't know what dosages are required to achieve this. Of course I do not want to have a big puffy look. Come on, we all want to be fvcking huge! But we want to be ripped too

[crazy mike]

Right on CM. I have heard fables of explosive strength while on dbol. Although I don't know what dosages are required to achieve this. Of course I do not want to have a big puffy look. Come on, we all want to be fvcking huge! But we want to be ripped too

^^^yep we agree. Good luck man. ...cm

[2144bill]

Hey mate dbol a good idea if you dnt mind some water retention just remember to take milk thistle and for liver health. If you already got 30 ml and rest gets wasted that's not used and you hit a spot of no more growth at 500 mg just run 750mg a week for 10 weeks. It's really not that high of dose at all. Just make sure pct is in check you'll be fine. Good luck

[BG]

D-bol is great , but not at 50mgs, a little high. When I have used it though I run it for the last 6 weeks of my cycle at 20-25mg. I dont understand why people front load with it. It has great protein synthesis qualities that I use for when my injectibles are at full strength, its a great complimentary compound. By front loading with it, when you drop it your decreasing the amount of steroids in your system so your actually being counter productive.

[BluPhin]

Hey mate dbol a good idea if you dnt mind some water retention just remember to take milk thistle and for liver health. If you already got 30 ml and rest gets wasted that's not used and you hit a spot of no more growth at 500 mg just run 750mg a week for 10 weeks. It's really not that high of dose at all. Just make sure pct is in check you'll be fine. Good luck

I was planning on taking NAC @ 1200mg/day for liver support. Do I need milk thistle as well? If yes, what dosage?

[BluPhin]

D-bol is great , but not at 50mgs, a little high. When I have used it though I run it for the last 6 weeks of my cycle at 20-25mg. I dont understand why people front load with it. It has great protein synthesis qualities that I use for when my injectibles are at full strength, its a great complimentary compound. By front loading with it, when you drop it your decreasing the amount of steroids in your system so your actually being counter productive.

You are the first person that I have heard that takes dbol at the end of cycle. How many times have you done this? Did you experience any side effects?

[2144bill]

I was planning on taking NAC @ 1200mg/day for liver support. Do I need milk thistle as well? If yes, what dosage?

Can if you want just take a couple not really needed tho if ya only doing 4 weeks and have other stuff. Good luck