Pre-cycle Experiment - Testosterone Enanthate SubQ vs IM - ED pins

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

Hello everyone,

So I'm about to start my next cycle soon (http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ws-needed.html) and while I wait to have all the components ready I'm going to try something I've been reading about and researching for some time now. I have two vials of testosterone enanthate at 250 mg / ml and I will be administering 0.4 cc's SubQ ED which is 700 mg / week until the start of my cycle which should be in 2-3 weeks max. What I do know is that absorption of the hormone will be slower and the peeks will not be as high as 2x/week IM pinning. There two things I want to be able to accomplish with this experiment;

1.) If through SubQ pins you avoid the PIP that usually comes with IM pins and if they're safe and effective.
2.) If ED pining provides the more stable blood levels and if the effects of the hormone take longer to feel and if so how much longer.

The only thing I'm on now is IGF-1 L3 but only 40 mcgs ED POST w/o which I've been on now for 3 weeks. I'm feeling more and more of a pump at the gym as the days go by but they don't compare to the feeling testosterone gives nor the libido or sense of well being so I'll know when the testosterone kicks in for sure; IMO you can't ever compare peptides to AAS...ever.

So today was day one. This is what I used.

-29 gauge 1/2'' 1 cc insulin pin
-0.4 cc's testosterone enanthate

I used the same pin to draw and inject. Ran warm water over the pin being careful to not compromised the oil; pin went in smooth and painless, took about 30 seconds to draw and about a minute to inject. I made sure to inject very very very slowly at a 45 degree; anything too fast and the stream of oil will effectively rip through the fat and allow the oil to seep into the area outside the fat and may irritate the dermis and cause redness and inflammation. Felt a bit of sting after for a couple of minutes but NOTHING since then and its been 13 hours. No soreness, no redness, no lumps so far; pinned SubQ at 45 degree angle slightly pinching the right love handle.

I'll be keeping this thread updated for anyone interested in the results. I'll also be looking into blood work this week. Would be interesting to see blood work this week and then the last week before the rest of the cycle begins to see the difference and effects.

In any case thanks for the read guys. Please feel free to comment; any feedback is welcome.

Thanks everyone.

[qscgugcsq]

Absorption rate wont be noticeable.

SubQ twixe a week would be alright, however at 700mg / week you should stick to IM.

Its not a matter of peak or the staibility.

Its about being able to get enough ml.
Over .5ml sub for someone around 15% will leave a noticeable lump, small but noticeable.
The leaner you are the bigger the lump will look...

But anyway im still interested in your finding.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

Absorption rate wont be noticeable.

SubQ twixe a week would be alright, however at 700mg / week you should stick to IM.

Its not a matter of peak or the staibility.

Its about being able to get enough ml.
Over .5ml sub for someone around 15% will leave a noticeable lump, small but noticeable.
The leaner you are the bigger the lump will look...

But anyway im still interested in your finding.

Thanks for the reply. I see your point; precisely why I'm going to do just a tad under .5 cc's (.4 cc's.); I want to avoid the lumps I keep reading about in some people. I do have very low body fat right now actually; around 9-10%. That avatar pic I have on now is from 3 weeks ago and I was at a little over 8% there. There's some techniques to avoid the lumps I've been reading about so hopefully those coupled with the low dose will not cause too much clumping or lumping; in any case I'd switch to IM ED if too many lumps develop. Thanks for following though; stay tuned.

P.S.: Right now it's been 14 hours and no lumps, or redness, or tenderness or nothing. Looking good so far. Oh and I didn't rub it after the pin; I've read conflicting reports on rubbing it post injection or not, I prefer to leave it alone and let it do it's thing. I believe it's all in the technique of the pin and the size of the dose but we'll see.

[hawk14dl]

This is interesting. I'm subscribing.

This is almost my trt dose (.375 twice a week) also sub q.

I hated my IM injections. Sub q is just awesome. I'd a cycle is possible sub q I'm in for that

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

DAY TWO

First pin I did yesterday is still feeling good after 24 hours; no redness, no lumps, no pain whatsoever. The only thing I feel there is like an itch you know; like if I had a small bruise there but there's no bruising, just the feeling of it when you touch....if that makes any sense.

Any who, pinned again today .4 cc's but on the other love handle. Same method as the first one; very very very slowly and heating up the pin a bit with warm water and at a 45 degree and not pinching the skin to hard. Felt a sting for the first 5 minutes but it's been feeling fine since then, no pain, no redness, no lumps so far.

No change in libido or anything yet; obviously too early to tell.

So far so good guy; i'll keep this thread updated as I go along.

[mark woods]

GOOD THREAD!! I did my 5th pin today I'm also doing sub q with exact same needle in my quads you do .8cc at a time no lumps got a bit of pip on my first one but it's my first time!!I read somewhere jabbing into belly fat and quad that levels were slightly lower so that's why I'm going quads now I don't pinch go straight in nothing has come out yet blood/oil! As I said this is start of week 3 and I am starting to see a noticeable difference test e btw

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

GOOD THREAD!! I did my 5th pin today I'm also doing sub q with exact same needle in my quads you do .8cc at a time no lumps got a bit of pip on my first one but it's my first time!!I read somewhere jabbing into belly fat and quad that levels were slightly lower so that's why I'm going quads now I don't pinch go straight in nothing has come out yet blood/oil! As I said this is start of week 3 and I am starting to see a noticeable difference test e btw

Great to hear my friend! Yeah I'm going to be doing love handles, quads and upper glutes so 6 sites in total to rotate. That gives me 6 days for each pin to heal properly; should be enough but we'll see. I also read that people with lower body fat actually respond better to SubQ; another thing we'll find out with this experiment I suppose. I've only done 2 pins so far and so far so good; no pain, no redness, no swelling; just a minor feeling of bruising one the first one but no bruise per say, just the feeling. In any case thanks for following brother, stay tuned and keep me posted on who you go along as well.

[m314]

The only downside I've seen with subq oil injections is the occasional lumps and a higher chance of bruising. With daily subq oil injections, I'll inevitably end up with several bruises at the injection sites.

I've done all my iniections with 28 gauge slin pins for years now. Quad and delt injections are IM, but I still do some subq shots around the abdominal area and glutes.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

The only downside I've seen with subq oil injections is the occasional lumps and a higher chance of bruising. With daily subq oil injections, I'll inevitably end up with several bruises at the injection sites.

I've done all my iniections with 28 gauge slin pins for years now. Quad and delt injections are IM, but I still do some subq shots around the abdominal area and glutes.

If the only downside is some bruises man I could deal with that instead of the horrid PIP I get at times that takes me out of my workout rotation. Also I believe this can be avoided with proper technique.

It's good to hear from people that have been doing this for quite some time. If we can get the proper technique down minimizing lumps and bruises I think this can be a very valid and worthwhile way to go about cycling. It's definitely safer than IM injections and less crippling that's for sure. The only thing we don't know if it can be adapted to cycling instead of just TRT with larger doses per week separated into small daily doses as to not inject over .5 cc's at any one point. I hope my small experiment can shed some light on that.

In any case thanks for the reply. Please stay tuned.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

So after 36 hours the first pin SubQ seems to be ok. No redness, no lumps, no pain; just a bit of lingering bruise feeling (but no visible bruise). The second pin which I did this morning also is doing good; right now I'm starting to feel the same bruise feeling as the first one but no visible signs yet for either. All is going good so far guys. Can't wait for the libido boost to kick in; with IM pins I usually start feeling the libido boost and sense of well being after the first or second week. Curious to see if through SubQ it takes longer or the same.

Stay tuned folks.

[RangerDanger830]

No real comments yet, just here to see how it goes. I am suspicious and maybe a little stuck in my IM ways. I keep an open mind nonetheless. You have great aesthetics and size for just three cycles by the way.

[mod1-4]

Why not try this with suspension?

[< <Samson> >]

What would happen if you hit a sub Q shot with suspension?

[hawk14dl]

Hey man just fyi, I hit my glutes sub q with a pinch. Never any sort of discomfort. I just pinned tonight and I couldn't even tell you where it was.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

No real comments yet, just here to see how it goes. I am suspicious and maybe a little stuck in my IM ways. I keep an open mind nonetheless. You have great aesthetics and size for just three cycles by the way.

I hear ya on the IM train of thought bro. I too am still iffy about it; there's something about it that doesn't feel the same you know. The only reason I'm doing this is because after just a few cycles I can already tell that my body does not like IM injections with more than 1 cc's at a time and more often than not I get really bad PIP, to the point I cant go to the gym which is where I draw the line man. A lot of guys say that PIP is just part of the game but I'm sorry I don't think it should be if there's other alternatives. Thanks for the comment by the way. I've been training for a few years before I got into AAS and before that I was always doing some kind of sport so it's been work getting to this point. It's always good to hear some positive feedback, thanks man.

Why not try this with suspension?

I was researching about SubQ shots and more and more of the research led me to TRT patients who the majority of them use testosterone cypionate subq but only once or twice a week. Id figure if it works for doctors who prescribe this treatment for patients then it should work just as well with enanthate which I already had on hand. Suspensions do seem like a good option as well and might be acquiring some if the oil based compound starts to give me problems.

What would happen if you hit a sub Q shot with suspension?

Suspension is water based like HCG so there's shouldn't be an issue in that regard.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

Hey man just fyi, I hit my glutes sub q with a pinch. Never any sort of discomfort. I just pinned tonight and I couldn't even tell you where it was.

Sounds good bro! My next one is actually there tomorrow morning; can't wait! Thanks for the feedback.

[hawk14dl]

No problem. Anything to keep this going. I'm very interested in results. My trt isn't fully dialed in, but once it is I may try a similar cycle

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

DAY 3

Third pin SubQ was today; did it in the upper right glute. Pinched very slightly with my left hand and pinned with the right very very very slowly. Again withdrawing the oil took about 30 seconds and the injection about one minute. This time I did not feel the sting I felt with the other two I did in the love handles; don't know if it's because of the area that has less nerves or the injections went smoother. Either way, no pain, no swelling, no redness, nothing.

As for the first two injections prior; the first one doesn't give me the bruise feeling any more but I know it's there. It's a lot less sensitive to touch and I can barely feel any difference in sensitivity if I pass my hand around the area so it may be close to being absorbed completely. Still no lumping, no pain, no redness. The second injection which was yesterday morning is now feeling like the first did on day two; like if you had a bruise there, small bruise but a bruise none the less BUT without it looking like a bruise, meaning no dark spots or nothing to the sorts. I can only feel them when I pass my hand by the area if not I wouldn't even know something is there.

As for mood and libido nothing yet but it's early to tell I suppose. Sometime by the end of this week or next I should start to feel the difference. We'll see but so far so good guys. It feels kind of odd tbh, like if I wasn't doing gear at all, I don't know it's hard to explain, just something to get used to I suppose. Just not having the PIP to remind you that you're on cycle maybe. Your mind creates associations with pain and feeling and without the PIP you don't really associate with that feeling of being "on"...if that makes any sense...like I said it's hard to explain.

Stay tuned guys. Thanks for keeping track.

[RangerDanger830]

I will say there seems to be a ton of variables when it comes to PIP. Me personally, I never had bad PIP from any kind of injection I do in the glutes. I stick to long esters and keep it to two IM injections a week and I am golden. It'll be sore for an hour or two then it is hardly noticeable.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

I will say there seems to be a ton of variables when it comes to PIP. Me personally, I never had bad PIP from any kind of injection I do in the glutes. I stick to long esters and keep it to two IM injections a week and I am golden. It'll be sore for an hour or two then it is hardly noticeable.

Yeah same here; glutes I've never had any issues with for some reason. Thing is you have to pin in other places too, you can't just stick with glutes you know, after a while you have to rotate sites. But you are correct there are a ton of variables that play into PIP; quality of the gear, injection technique, size of dose, which muscle you injected in, etc, etc. For example every time that I pin at night, it usually doesn't give me any PIP, just maybe slightly; when I pin in the morning and I go to work and then to the gym, that injection more often than not will give me trouble for some reason.

I have to say though so far so good with this method, we'll see how it goes but so far I haven't felt any pain at all. Its' refreshing to be honest to not have some kind of pain somewhere on your body, it gets pretty damn annoying after a while.

Thanks for the comment brother, stay tuned.

[RangerDanger830]

I did halfway expect the injections to go smoothly. I am really curious into the bioavailability of doing it that way. I really wish you could do weekly bloods.

[hawk14dl]

Ranger, some people in the trt forum actually report higher test levels after switching to sub q with the same dosing.

[RangerDanger830]

Ranger, some people in the trt forum actually report higher test levels after switching to sub q with the same dosing.

I am a man of science, show me the blood tests and I will believe you friend. I will hop on over to the trt section and take a gander.

[hawk14dl]

Beethoven and 2sox are the biggest advocates in there. I know Beethoven retorted higher levels, I believe 2 sox did also but can't find any posts to back that up. Beethoven mentioned his higher levels in my thread "just made the switch to sub q"

[RangerDanger830]

Well after a brief search I did find one peer-reviewed article stating that Subq TRT injections did produce results. However, they were not compared to IM injections. They just said Subq works, but not how well.

Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A p... [Saudi Med J. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

This guy did post blood work. This is by no means conclusive evidence but it is enough to make me suspcious.

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...m-labwork.html

For the sake of fairness this one seems to err towards Subq...

WHICH TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY? - CANTRILL - 2008 - Clinical Endocrinology - Wiley Online Library

And this one describes the biology of injections a little better.

Release and absorption rates of intramuscularly and subcutaneously injected pharmaceuticals (II)

Having read a few articles on it, it seems as though an oil based test solution injected IM would produce higher peak test levels but they would be absorbed much more quickly whereas subc oil based test seems to produce lower levels due to a slower release which seems to be conducive to TRT patients. If I am interpreting this data wrong please let me know.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

I did halfway expect the injections to go smoothly. I am really curious into the bioavailability of doing it that way. I really wish you could do weekly bloods.

Next week I'm planning on getting my first set of bloods; couldn't get around it this week. They're coming though so keep an eye out.

Well after a brief search I did find one peer-reviewed article stating that Subq TRT injections did produce results. However, they were not compared to IM injections. They just said Subq works, but not how well.

Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A p... [Saudi Med J. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

This guy did post blood work. This is by no means conclusive evidence but it is enough to make me suspcious.

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...m-labwork.html

For the sake of fairness this one seems to err towards Subq...

WHICH TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY? - CANTRILL - 2008 - Clinical Endocrinology - Wiley Online Library

And this one describes the biology of injections a little better.

Release and absorption rates of intramuscularly and subcutaneously injected pharmaceuticals (II)

Having read a few articles on it, it seems as though an oil based test solution injected IM would produce higher peak test levels but they would be absorbed much more quickly whereas subc oil based test seems to produce lower levels due to a slower release which seems to be conducive to TRT patients. If I am interpreting this data wrong please let me know.

Great info compile!

What I get so far from the research is that SubQ injections since they release slower into the blood stream, they create a more steady release of hormone which in turns doesn't allow for the same peaks that IM injections produce which reduces the chances of negative side affects which would be why TRT patients are more prescribed to this route. Now, higher peaks might mean more gains, but I have yet to come across any scientific studies or papers to back this up; I am like you a man of science. IMO you can also argue that a more steady and stable blood hormone level might also mean more gains in the long run. Not just that but the addition of ED pinning adds an extra layer of stability in terms of hormone levels in the blood.

With this tool I used : PCT Calculator | Post Cycle Therapy Calculator, you can see the levels of hormone in the blood ED vs E3D. IMO this result can also be related to SubQ vs IM because the more steady release of the hormone, it's the same model. As you can see the first set is 100 mg ED which is what I'm doing (but SubQ, this is for IM injections I believe) and the second is 350 mg 2x per week. The results speak for themselves, check it out.

100 mg ED

Day 1: 100mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 2: 190.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 3: 272.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 4: 346.9mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 5: 414.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 6: 475.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 7: 530.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 8: 580.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 9: 625.7mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 10: 666.7mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 11: 703.8mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 12: 737.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 13: 767.9mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 14: 795.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 15: 820.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 16: 843.1mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 17: 863.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 18: 882.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 19: 899mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 20: 914.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 21: 928mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 22: 940.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 23: 951.8mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 24: 962.1mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 25: 971.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 26: 979.8mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 27: 987.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 28: 994.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 29: 1000.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 30: 1006.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 31: 1011.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 32: 1016mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 33: 1020.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 34: 1024mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 35: 1027.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 36: 1030.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 37: 1033.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 38: 1036mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 39: 1038.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 40: 1040.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 41: 1042.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 42: 1044mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 43: 1045.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 44: 1047mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 45: 1048.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 46: 1049.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 47: 1050.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 48: 1051.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 49: 1052.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 50: 1053.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 51: 1054mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 52: 1054.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 53: 1055.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 54: 1055.7mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 55: 1056.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 56: 1056.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 57: 1057mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 58: 1057.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 59: 1057.7mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 60: 1058mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 61: 1058.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 62: 1058.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 63: 1058.7mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 64: 1058.9mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 65: 1059.1mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 66: 1059.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 67: 1059.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 68: 1059.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 69: 1059.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 70: 1059.7mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 71: 1059.8mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 72: 1059.9mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 73: 1060mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 74: 1060.1mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 75: 1060.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 76: 1060.3mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 77: 1060.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 78: 1060.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 79: 1060.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 80: 1060.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 81: 1060.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 82: 1060.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 83: 1060.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 84: 1060.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 85: 1060.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day

350 mg 2x / week:

Day 1: 350mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 2: 317mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 3: 287.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 4: 260mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 5: 568.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 6: 515mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 7: 466.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 8: 772.5mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 9: 699.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 10: 633.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 11: 573.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 12: 852.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 13: 772.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 14: 699.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 15: 983.7mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 16: 891.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 17: 807mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 18: 730.8mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 19: 995.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 20: 901.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 21: 816.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 22: 1089.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 23: 986.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 24: 893.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 25: 809.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 26: 1066.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 27: 965.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 28: 874.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 29: 1142.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 30: 1034.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 31: 937mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 32: 848.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 33: 1101.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 34: 997.8mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 35: 903.8mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 36: 1168.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 37: 1058.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 38: 958.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 39: 868.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 40: 1119.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 41: 1013.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 42: 918.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 43: 1181.8mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 44: 1070.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 45: 969.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 46: 878mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 47: 1128.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 48: 1021.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 49: 925.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 50: 1188.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 51: 1076.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 52: 974.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 53: 882.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 54: 1132.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 55: 1026mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 56: 929.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 57: 1191.7mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 58: 1079.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 59: 977.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 60: 885.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 61: 1134.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 62: 1028mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 63: 931.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 64: 1193.4mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 65: 1080.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 66: 979mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 67: 886.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 68: 1136.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 69: 1029mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 70: 932mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 71: 1194.2mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 72: 1081.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 73: 979.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 74: 887.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 75: 1136.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 76: 1029.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 77: 932.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 78: 1194.6mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 79: 1082mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 80: 980mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 81: 887.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 82: 1136.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 83: 1029.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 84: 932.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 85: 1194.8mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day

As you can see the less steady release of the hormone gave higher peaks but numerous ups and downs; the ED pinning gave lower peaks but a much more steady release of the hormone, specially towards the last 8 weeks. These result can also be related to SubQ injections IMO.

I'll keep digging and keep this thread posted as I go along guys. Good to have some company, thanks for tuning in.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

DAY 4

So today guys, pinned SubQ in the left upper glute; same as the other one, no pain, no sting after the pin, and no nothing so far as well. Injected very very slowly, warming the slin pin right before injecting, pinching very slightly and only .4 cc's. What I've also been doing is after each pin SubQ I try to stretch the area where I pinned; not rubbed but stretched as to disperse the oil a bit but not rubbing it as to damage the tissue surrounding the deposit. I don't stretch the skin but rather stretch as if I was warming up to workout that muscle, maybe that has helped with clumping.

As for the other 3; the first one is almost completely gone, there's hardly sensibility and there's no obvious visible or palpable deposit left (after 72 hours/3 days). The second one the area is still a bit sensitive, still with that bruise feeling somewhat but nothing mayor and nothing I can feel unless I pass my hand through the area or touch it, if not I wouldn't know I did anything there. As for the glute shot I did yesterday, that one has been perfect, no bruise feeling like the other ones no nothing whatsoever, apparently glutes have responded best so far. All in all, everything is going good so far guys.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

DAY 5

Another day another successful pin you guys. Today's was in the left outer upper thigh, had a slightly direrent technique today. Pinched the skin injected then released the skin; I read that holding the skin pinched while injecting can cause trauma to the subcutaneous tissue and cause bruising and/or clumping of the oil injected. After injection there was no sting, no pain, no bruising, noting so far.

As for the other 4 injections;
The first one is gone I believe, fully absorbed by now, I don't feel anything there anymore at all.
The second one feel a little bruised still and to the touch you can feel something is still there but getting smaller every day whcih means it's being absorbed.
Third one is the same as the second only a bit more tender (bruise feeling but no visible beuise) and more material left to be absorbed.
None have redness, none have pain or swelling. If I don't touch the area directly I wouldn't even know anything was there tbh.

As far as libido and mood; I don't know if it's in my head that I'm relieved to be taking gear without pain but I feel great guys. Mood is up, energy is up, last night at the gym I had one of my best leg workouts ever (and I hate doing legs). This morning also had some tell-tale signs of libido increase; good ole morning wood at full glory and I didn't have to pee. Maybe it's a coincidence maybe not but it's a welcome sign none the less. All in all, everything going good so far guys. Stay tuned.

[mark woods]

Hi mate I did my 6th shot Thurs evening so ending week 3 now of 400mg test e and I did left quad this time I had very minor pip yday nothing like after my first one which was right quad and basically had a dead leg for 36hrs but yday I could have done legs if it was leg day I reckon I could be hitting the muscle a bit with the quads being fairly lean not sure tho..

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

Hi mate I did my 6th shot Thurs evening so ending week 3 now of 400mg test e and I did left quad this time I had very minor pip yday nothing like after my first one which was right quad and basically had a dead leg for 36hrs but yday I could have done legs if it was leg day I reckon I could be hitting the muscle a bit with the quads being fairly lean not sure tho..

What kind of PIP though? In the muscle or did it crash and become red and swollen? If you can't bend your leg then you must have injected into the muscle for sure. There's no way a SubQ injection crashed or not could affect your leg muscles in that manner; I don't see how IMO. I'm also very lean but what I did was find the area of my outer upper quad that I could pinch the most skin; I then insert the needle at a 45 degree (very important, if you insert at 90 degrees you might be hitting the muscle), release the skin and inject, very very very slowly. Also, what dosages are you taking for each pin? Anything above .5 cc's can cause problems.

I'll be updating these last two days tonight. Had one crash actually, got red about the size of a quarter, but not swollen or painful, just red and sensitive to touch, like if you were touching a bruise. Nothing that could have kept me from working out though. If I don't touch it or see it I wouldn't even know it had crashed and gotten red. I blame this on the gear though; I've had crashes with the same gear with IM injections before so it's not surprising. In fact one of six pins only crashed; with this gear that's very good odds IMO. We'll see it how it goes from now on. Stay tuned for my update tonight guys.

[mark woods]

No mate I wasn't pinching the skin at all plus I was going in at 90° I'm using 29g 5/8" needle but not going in all the way so probably was hitting the muscle especially on my first one which was pretty sore and if that was a regular thing it would be an issue but I'll give your way a try with the angle and pinching and see how I go..

[mark woods]

Also was doing .8cc

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

No mate I wasn't pinching the skin at all plus I was going in at 90° I'm using 29g 5/8" needle but not going in all the way so probably was hitting the muscle especially on my first one which was pretty sore and if that was a regular thing it would be an issue but I'll give your way a try with the angle and pinching and see how I go..

Also was doing .8cc

Yeah both the angle, the not pinching and the amount all have to do with why you're getting PIP my friend. Only people with high body fat can pin at 90 degrees without pinching, if you're lean you can't do that, you're basically doing a shallow IM injection. Let me know how it goes.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

DAY 6 & 7

So today it was hard to find a spot, I ended up pinning in the abdominal area, same as before, no pain just a little burn from the pin for a minute or two then it dissipated. So far so good with that one.

As for the rest; they're all good except one as mentioned in my post above. The one on day 5 woke up today a bit red but not swollen or painful, just red about the size of a quarter. I only noticed it because I saw it , quite frankly if I hadn't I wouldn't have known it got that way. I didn't even feel it sleeping on that side. Any who, hope it goes away soon, but there's no pain, just soreness.

After one week I can definitely say libido is up and mood is up for sure. The slower more steady absorption I can feel cause a more stable level of hormone. I have no highs or lows, just a steady state of well being, I can say with certainty that this is working so far guys. It'll be interesting to see when the strength aspects starts to kick in. I feel more energetic at the gym but till haven't felt that extra amount of pump you usually feel when test kicks in; too early to tell in any case. For me usually around week 3 or 4 is when I start to feel this really kicking in. Hopefully with this method it'll be around the same time, maybe a week or so later. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks for tuning in guys.

[mark woods]

Hi mate week 4 for me! Jabbed early am like you described 45° and a pinch upper outer right quad still went wit .8cc tho all good except a slight lump but no pain or redness did legs today too all good!!

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

Hi mate week 4 for me! Jabbed early am like you described 45° and a pinch upper outer right quad still went wit .8cc tho all good except a slight lump but no pain or redness did legs today too all good!!

Good to hear bud! Yeah the bump is related to the size of the dose bro. Anything over .5 cc's will always leave a bump.

As per the one that had crashed for me that got red ; it's almost all gone now and no pain at all, just a slight bruise felling but nothing I can notice if I don't touch it. Today's workout was epic man; I can feel the test for sure. No strength gains yet but the stamina is there for sure. I did chest today and killed it man, freaking great workout, I was there for an hour and a half and I felt I could go for 2 but had to come home and cook dinner and do some shit around the house before bed time. All in all, going good so far guys. The only issue I see is that it takes longer for it to be absorbed completely so you need to have plenty of sites available , specially if you're pinning ED, other than that it's a very viable option IMO. We'll see how week two goes.

Stay tuned guys.

[hawk14dl]

2 days later, how's it going bro?

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

2 days later, how's it going bro?

Hey Hawk; sorry man been kind of busy with this new store I'm opening up this weekend, between that and my wife and my kid it's pretty freaking hard to get one minute of free time to do something for me. This is the one thing I enjoy for myself only and I just can't seem to find the time sometimes you know. Any who...

It's been going great man, I'm repeating the sites now on week 2 and I got the technique down pretty solid. I've noticed I get lumps where there's more fat than not which would seem be contrary but that's been my case. For example doing a subq on my outer thigh which I barely have any fat at all that's the place it absorbed the fastest and never creates any lumps. Doing in my love handle which is where I have most fat is where I get the biggest lumps and bruise feeling. You would think if you have more fat to displace the oil it would not clump but it does for some reason more often than in places where fat is nearly nil . The ones I did in my outer quad are gone a day faster than the ones in my love handles. Those I can feel a slight bump for a few days until it's gone.

As far as strength nothing to noticeable yet. Still way early to tell anyway. Energy is through the roof and libido is insane, more than when I pin IM for some reason. Maybe it's the more steady and stable hormone levels that keep me horny 24/7 but hot damn. My wife is enjoying it to say the least. The energy and mood is helping in the gym though, it helps to get one more rep or one more set in before calling it a day so you can say it is affecting strength in that regard. All in all going good bro.

Thanks for staying tuned brother. I'll keep updating as much as I can. Hopefully when I get the store open and setup i'll have some more free time....hopefully....

[michael30]

Thanks for taking the time to log this. Ive also been running my hrt via subq injections for about 3-4 months now. I doubt ill ever go back.

[hawk14dl]

Been another week, starting to feel like a cycle yet?