Low testosterone?

[evolution83]

hey guys,

new member here and wanted to see if i could get some insight to the blood work I had done.

Two years ago I decided to have my testosterone checked. At that time I weighed in around 170lbs, and these were the results:

testosterone, total: 758. (Reference range, 241-827 ng/dL)
SHBG: 40 (Reference range, 10-57 nmol/L)
testosterone, free, calc: 154 (Reference range, 35-180 pg/mL)
testosterone free, %: 2.0 (Reference range, 1.0-2.7%)

I'm on my way to 31 years old and just a month ago had some blood work done again as requested by my doctor. For years I have always believed to have low testosterone due to depression, anxiety, low / non-existent libido, irritable, always tired, no interest in anything, etc.

The last 6 months of me being new to bodybuilding (although not new to exercise or nutrition as I've studied it for years) has proven difficult to put on any muscle (I'm 5'9", 211lbs; 23% bf was eating 3500cals, 40/40/20 macro split), although I've noticed very small gains. (the extra body fat could cover be covering up most of my results :P )

Here's a rundown of the new results:



Total testosterone seems great, but while not extremely low, free test is a bit on the lower end. If you look just below that result, testosterone itself is 283ng/dl out of 853. SHBG is also a bit higher than it should be, although I'm not sure if that number is ideal...

Both my doctor and I aren't sure what the second testosterone result (283) is for as it's throwing us both off.

I just want to confirm that my doctors decision to put me on HRT is the right move (I'm not objecting to it lol), and what everyone thinks of my results? HRT hasn't been started yet as my doctor wants to test me again and have me lose 40lbs.

I've actually stopped working out for the last month due to the fact that these results somewhat prove to me that putting on muscle will be difficult. Am I right or wrong?

I have a full lipid panel although I'm not sure that will help here. I'm guessing a full hormone panel would be best.

Thanks for any help.

[Lifted1]

If you're overweight or have a higher bf% you are just converting a lot of that 800ng/dl to estridol and the rest is being tied up by shbg as its fairly high. imo you don't need hrt with a natural level that high, you just need to trim your bodyfat down to the 15% range which will help free up some of the converted testosterone.

[evolution83]

Thank you.

The one value I don't understand is the 283. Do you have a guess as to what that may refer to?

[Lifted1]

I noticed that too, but I have no idea. It's kinda weird...give the lab a call and ask them.

[kelkel]

Get a sensitive estrogen assay as well.

[evolution83]

I noticed that too, but I have no idea. It's kinda weird...give the lab a call and ask them.

i did actually. they said they couldn't tell me over the phone which i thought was ridiculous given it's my own blood work.

Get a sensitive estrogen assay as well.

kelkel, what are your thoughts on the results so far? do you see anything that might prohibit muscle growth?

[Lifted1]

send them an email with your first/last name, results attached and tell them you give them permission to communicate to your email. i just did that yesterday with my lab results.

[kelkel]

kelkel, what are your thoughts on the results so far? do you see anything that might prohibit muscle growth?

Low free T will. Serum T does not matter.

[Low Testosterone]

i did actually. they said they couldn't tell me over the phone which i thought was ridiculous given it's my own blood work.



kelkel, what are your thoughts on the results so far? do you see anything that might prohibit muscle growth?

Depending on the state you live in, some states are prohibited from releasing lab information, which includes over the phone, even if the lab information belongs to that patient. It can only be released through a physician. Irritating rule? Of course, but that's more than likely the reason you got the answer you did.

And yes, your free testosterone levels are low, as kelkel noted, that's really all that matters.

[evolution83]

Low free T will. Serum T does not matter.

Forgive me in advance everyone, this is all very new to me so sorry if I ask a lot of questions. I've done a lot of reading on this subject, but a lot of the articles have not really answered the questions I have here.

I remember even at a healthy weight all my symptoms were still an issue (reference original post) and don't believe hormones were any better. My symptoms have been going on since the end of adolescence (last 12 years).

Kelkel this is for you, but anyone else is free to chime in.

1) I assume HRT is my only option to raise Low free T?

2) Even with a supposedly high Total T, Free T is more important? I'm guessing the 283ng/dL of testosterone in my lab result is just testosterone itself, and that would be enough for me to be on HRT.

3) If I raise Low Free T, does that also raise Total T? How important is Total T compared to Low Free T?

thanks all in advance.

[Simon1972]

i wouldnt be suprised if the 283 ends up being your actual total test level and the top result could be the error if you are struggling for muscle- if your dr isnt sure what the result means he should call the lab and ask himself- afterall it his job to understand the result and explain it to you.

there shouldnt ever be a ï dont understand this result" moment from a dr- ask him to clarify it.

[evolution83]

if your dr isnt sure what the result means he should call the lab and ask himself- afterall it his job to understand the result and explain it to you. there shouldnt ever be a ï dont understand this result" moment from a dr- ask him to clarify it.

we both didn't understand why there were two levels of testosterone. we see total is 849 but the 283 was a separate result. he thought it was a separate test, but i had to call the lab to give my doctor a call because the lab wouldn't explain it to me over the phone.

my best guess, and the one that seems the most logical, is that the 283 is my actual level of testosterone serum. it would explain a lot of things I've had over the years, and something i can finally take care of (just hope my insurance covers it or is somewhat affordable if they don't).

[Beethoven]

i wouldnt be suprised if the 283 ends up being your actual total test level and the top result could be the error if you are struggling for muscle- if your dr isnt sure what the result means he should call the lab and ask himself- afterall it his job to understand the result and explain it to you.

there shouldnt ever be a ï dont understand this result" moment from a dr- ask him to clarify it.

I don't understand the two results. I would also bet that the 283 winds up being the correct number because of your low free t. The scary part is your Dr doesn't know.

[kelkel]

Forgive me in advance everyone, this is all very new to me so sorry if I ask a lot of questions. I've done a lot of reading on this subject, but a lot of the articles have not really answered the questions I have here.

I remember even at a healthy weight all my symptoms were still an issue (reference original post) and don't believe hormones were any better. My symptoms have been going on since the end of adolescence (last 12 years).

Kelkel this is for you, but anyone else is free to chime in.

1) I assume HRT is my only option to raise Low free T? That would depend on full blood work, which you should get. If you're TT and FT are actually that low then there's a reason. You need to find it. Full BW such as in the Finding A Doc Sticky is step #1. That said, optimizing Vit D levels can help, by reducing shbg. Quality sleep, lifestyle, etc.

2) Even with a supposedly high Total T, Free T is more important? I'm guessing the 283ng/dL of testosterone in my lab result is just testosterone itself, and that would be enough for me to be on HRT. Yep. TT really means nothing. FT is what works for you. Yes, that number is low and enough for TRT in conjunction with other symptoms noted. TRT should not be your goal though. Find the root cause first and correct it if possible. It's worth the time to do so.

3) If I raise Low Free T, does that also raise Total T? How important is Total T compared to Low Free T
No. FT is what's unbound or available for use. You would simply be altering the ratio. Lower shbg = more FT. Higher shbg = less FT. But shbg is important and mid-range is optimal. SHBG and albumin to a minor extent are what transport hormones throughout your body via your blood.

thanks all in advance.

in bold above...

[evolution83]

in bold above...

I've started taking vitamin D and DHEA for the last week or so to see if that helps. I get too much sleep as it is; always tired. Even when I was working out it sometimes made it worse.

I did have a complete blood panel done, although it's not hormonal. I can post if it may be helpful.

Since my SHBG is mid range and you said it's optimal, should I focus on lowering it?

I wouldn't mind trying to find the cause although I'm guessing it's hereditary.

[evolution83]

Hey guys, I went and had blood work again via the same lab that I posted results for previously.

This time they're up slightly:

Test, free: 9.10 ng/dl.
Ref range: 5.00/21.00

Testosterone: 438 ng/dl
Ref range: 72/853

SHBG: 32 nmol/L
Ref range: 10-57

I was a bit surprised. I haven't done anything that would warrant this except stop exercising lol. The results I posted previously was when I was working hard in the gym and taking OTC test boosters. I'm wondering if they suppressed my levels slightly. I was also fasted for my previous bloodwork. The current data I was not.

Anyway, I called up the lowtestosterone.com site and spoke with a specialist there. I will be going in for more bloodwork today. The specialist said if my low free test is below 15 I qualify. After chatting for a bit and explaining my symptoms and history, he believes it's low T related.

Whether there's a cause or not I'm unsure of. I do believe it has been going on for many years regardless of how fit I was, diet or stress levels.

I know hormones fluctuate but any feedback regarding the recent rise in test is appreciated.

[kelkel]

Yes, some test boosters can actually suppress endogenous test levels.
Good choice going with LowT.
It just may be your time for replacement.

[jomamma007]

While not optimal 9 on the range doesn't seem too bad. The average free test is 12.3 for a 25-34 year old. I've never see a natural guy post blood work showing free T in the upper quartile, only guys on TRT.

If you don't care about committing to life long injections and dialing yourself in then I see no problem, but you really need a full blood panel as Kel suggested . We want to know WHY your levels are low. Is it thyroid, adrenal, sleep apnea, pituitary tumor etc. This is why we recommend a full blood panel before even thinking about TRT.

Good luck bud.

[evolution83]

While not optimal 9 on the range doesn't seem too bad. The average free test is 12.3 for a 25-34 year old. I've never see a natural guy post blood work showing free T in the upper quartile, only guys on TRT.

If you don't care about committing to life long injections and dialing yourself in then I see no problem, but you really need a full blood panel as Kel suggested . We want to know WHY your levels are low. Is it thyroid, adrenal, sleep apnea, pituitary tumor etc. This is why we recommend a full blood panel before even thinking about TRT.

Good luck bud.

i've been on some anti-anxiety / depression medication for the last 5 years and will likely need to be for life. my mother is on the same so i've kinda inherited that aspect. injections would be no different to me.

i'd like to know why my levels are suppressed myself. i mean, if i have such a natural high level in my body but most of it is bound and unavailable, i'd like to know as well. the bloodwork that was ordered by lowtestosterone.com should help explain this.

the only thing i can think of that popped into my head the other day is the foreign objects in both my testicles.

see, when i was around 19 this entire issue of lack of sex drive, depression, tiredness, etc started when i noticed both of my testicles started growing some sort of hard substance that was painful if squeezed. think of it like a cyst. when it first started to appear, i would get random pain in one or both that would literally make me scream. the pain would last about 10 seconds and then disappear. i visited the doctor about it who said it could be removed if the pain persisted, but the chance of it returning is possible. that alone made me contemplate getting it removed.

i left it alone and decided not to have it removed. the pain would persist every now and then but ultimately (the pain) went away after several years. the only time i've felt that pain again was when i was taking a supplement around the time of my initial post that had a diuretic which made me urinate often.

i'm not sure of the name of the condition for what i have (doctor mentioned it but i forgot).

since i cannot post web links yet, look up "Hydrocele_testis" and "Varicocele" on wikipedia for what i believe could be causing my issues.

i have heard that with the pain i've experienced in my testicles, shrinkage follows. i do feel like my nuts have shrunk over the years as referenced in the varicocele article. they definitely don't hang low like they used to!

before i end this, kelkel, if someone has a natural high level of test in their body such as myself, what could possibly cause the issues i have?

[kelkel]

If you think you have varicoceles then you need an ultra sound. 438 is not high test. Remember it's free T that's important, not serum.


Varicocele repair for low testosterone. - PubMed - NCBI

Varicocelectomy is associated with increases in serum testosterone ... - PubMed - NCBI

Increased frequency of anxiety, depression, quality of life and sex... - PubMed - NCBI

[evolution83]

I know free test is important, but thought maybe the gunk in my sac would cause this. I greatly appreciate your support sir.

I should have blood results early this week and will report back on progress.

[evolution83]

my results are in and i'm at a loss. free test is super high, but just last week and months prior it was low??

blood work did not show SHBG or total test, but did have other info on there that not sure would be beneficial to post. no estradiol either.

i don't have morning erections, spontaneous or have an interest in any sexual activity. i can't even masturbate on my own if i tried; i lose my erections quickly.

my strength in the gym is ok / good but putting on muscle was proving to be difficult.

i'm confused and questioning everything again. this can't be right...

[Low Testosterone]

my results are in and i'm at a loss. free test is super high, but just last week and months prior it was low??

blood work did not show SHBG or total test, but did have other info on there that not sure would be beneficial to post. no estradiol either.

i don't have morning erections, spontaneous or have an interest in any sexual activity. i can't even masturbate on my own if i tried; i lose my erections quickly.

my strength in the gym is ok / good but putting on muscle was proving to be difficult.

i'm confused and questioning everything again. this can't be right...

The Serum reading is Total Testosterone.

Morning erections or the lack of is not a very good indicator of low testosterone levels. However, there is certainly an erection problem if you cannot obtain one even when trying manually. Could be a blood flow problem - although that wouldn't necessarily affect libido.

There are a host of other possible problems or issues you could have going on. There are thousands of blood panels that can be run. Some times we'll get complains from men who are upset that we didn't run this or that panels - I always say, do you have any idea what that would cost? I'm speaking of extreme request.

I would also strongly consider the things kelkel mentioned above.

[kelkel]

Evo your variations in readings seem to point to a possible varicocele even more, imho.

[evolution83]

i went back to my regular MD the other day to get some sort of answer on all this. i may have a spermatocele on both testicles (benign, non-cancerous), and my left testicle is a lot smaller than my right. he wants an ultrasound and a couple more hormone tests done two months apart to see if my testosterone is low as a result of this. for now he is holding off on HRT until this is done.

i know if one testicle fails or has to be removed, the other can function just fine on its own and produce enough testosterone, but i'm hoping it's still functioning as normal as i'd rather not have it removed unless absolutely necessary.

i can tell you, yesterday was a bit of a stressful and emotional day for me. :-/

also, i was thinking of taking D-Aspartic Acid to try and see if it helps with some of my blood work, or should I hold off for now?

[hawk14dl]

you should probably hold off.

It sucks to hear, but it's actually great that your dr wants to do more testing. if the root cause can be fixed, you won't have to jab yourself the rest of your life

[kelkel]

Hang in there Evo, you'll get through this.

[evolution83]

*update*

so i had an ultrasound and all is clear as far as having anything cancerous. i do have a spermatocele on both testicles but they're very small. the doctor giving the ultrasound did say my left nut was smaller than my right a bit, and that i likely had an issue when i was younger where the sperm did not leave my system properly and formed the cysts i have now (which i remember happening a few times).

I also had my vitamin D levels checked. With a reference range of 30 - 100 ng/mL, my level was at 20.8 (maybe this is my issue? I tend to stay away from the sun a lot).

Testosterone has improved slightly again but not much.

here are the new numbers:

SHBG: 32 nmol/L
Testosterone: 445 ng/dL
Free Testosterone: 9.76 ng/dL

------------------------------

PREVIOUS RESULTS
Test, free: 9.10 ng/dl.
Ref range: 5.00/21.00

Testosterone : 438 ng/dl
Ref range: 72/853

SHBG: 32 nmol/L
Ref range: 10-57

------------------------------

at this point i think i'm gonna try some more test boosters such as D-Aspartic Acid and Vitamin D. a friend of mine has been taking it for a year and it's helped him in the gym tremendously. i plan to take for at least two months and have blood drawn again to see where my testosterone and vitamin D stands, then see what the doctor thinks we should do. if that doesn't work then i might as well go get his by a bus :P

anyone have suggestions that may help me out for these next couple months?

[evolution83]

hey guys, wanted to post an update here and ask for some feedback.

Here are latest blood work from May this year (it's been a while since I've gotten around to posting)



Just an FYI, all my blood work has been done thru a company called Theranos. It's a new technology and lately I've felt maybe the results maybe aren't as accurate as going through a more traditional lab such as Quest or LabCorp.

Now, last month I ordered some of my own blood work done thru Quest. That info is below:



I know this isn't a full blood panel and I plan to do another one of those maybe in a month after I get my butt to the gym to get back in shape (I've been delaying that because I don't wanna be disappointed again).

I've been taking DAA and vitamin D for the last couple months or so. My results started to go up around May when I had that initial test done, and went up again last month.

I wanna know if I'm on the right track here? My results have gotten much better than when I first posted here and hope maybe now I'll be able to put some muscle on.

As far as libido and everything else, it's still in the tank. It did fire up a bit when I was taking Prime Male (test booster), but went away after a week or so. I wish I could have that natural feeling back!

On a side note, upon doing some research, I found that the acne medication Accutane has a reputation for killing libido off permanently. I was on acne medication as a young teen, and while I'm not sure if that's what I took (I'll be calling the dermatologist tomorrow for Rx history), I fear it could have caused this 15 year loss of libido.

Anyway, thx for reading and any help!

[evolution83]

Damn no advice? Haha

[MuscleScience]

Damn no advice? Haha

what's your question?

And get that Vit D up bud, get some sun.

[kelkel]

Evo your levels really don't look that bad now. Personally I'd like to see your FT higher but otherwise it's not bad at all. Hopefully you've rectified the Vit D deficiency as well, but be careful not to overdo it as it's fat soluble.

[evolution83]

Evo your levels really don't look that bad now. Personally I'd like to see your FT higher but otherwise it's not bad at all. Hopefully you've rectified the Vit D deficiency as well, but be careful not to overdo it as it's fat soluble.

Thx. Vitamin D was low at 16 but better now at 30. I take 5K IU a day. It gets super hot here in the summer, up in the 100s so I tend to stay away from the sun a lot. I've always just been more of a home body.

Any way for me to raise FT even higher aside from taking D3, DHEA and soon to be working out?

[kelkel]

30 isn't much better. You need to easily double that number.
Improve lifestyle as much as possible, lose body fat, quality rest and nutrition. You are on the right path.

[MuscleScience]

Thx. Vitamin D was low at 16 but better now at 30. I take 5K IU a day. It gets super hot here in the summer, up in the 100s so I tend to stay away from the sun a lot. I've always just been more of a home body. Any way for me to raise FT even higher aside from taking D3, DHEA and soon to be working out?

Get some sun man, that's the best way to get Vit d up. Just don't get burnt or over due it.

[evolution83]

Get some sun man, that's the best way to get Vit d up. Just don't get burnt or over due it.

I'm not a sun guy. I grew up in cold weather so anything with the hot sun I stay away from.

[MuscleScience]

I'm not a sun guy. I grew up in cold weather so anything with the hot sun I stay away from.

Hence why your Vit D is terrible. You wanted our advice just trying to give you the best possible advice. :-)

[evolution83]

Hence why your Vit D is terrible. You wanted our advice just trying to give you the best possible advice. :-)

I know my vitamin d is low for that reason, not denying that fact. I'm just not one to be out in the sun unless it's maybe 70 degrees out when the sun isn't so bright. I don't want nasty skin , and putting sun block would defeat the purpose of being in the sun since the body can't produce vitamin d

[hawk14dl]

Just curious. . How does sun give you nasty skin?

Because i work outside a lot. Never use sun block. . And my skin isn't nasty. In fact my pale stomach and chest look terrible compared to my arms

[Baldur2630]

Just curious. . How does sun give you nasty skin?

Because i work outside a lot. Never use sun block. . And my skin isn't nasty. In fact my pale stomach and chest look terrible compared to my arms

I lived most of my life in Africa. I was out in the sun almost every day in just a pair of shorts. Since coming to Europe, I had a 3.5 year contract in Belize and again, I lived outdoors in the Sun in just a pair of shorts. I have NO skin cancer and no wrinkles (at 74 years old) and I still have all my hair and it's still brown.

It's all the shit in sun blocks which cause skin problems, not the sun. I never put anything on my skin other than water!