Pretty Bloated - More Adex or Tough it Out?

[MaxVCad]

5.5 weeks through my first-ever cycle.. 500mg of test e per week, every 3.5 days. I did a dbol 40mg/day kickstart (1 10mg pill every 5 hours) which ended last Tuesday and since stopping that my bloating has gone up! From what I've read, dbol is the worst bloater.. I expected the bloating to go down after I got off it. But my stomach is bloated, legs are bloated (I can feel it in my knees when i squat down), arms are bloated, feet are bloated.

I've been taking .5mg adex every MWF throughout my cycle (started at .25 but increased it after feeling really sensitive nips at week 2). My nips have been no issue at all since increasing the dosage but now the new thing is swelling..

Should I increase my dose even higher with the adex? I feel like this isn't the best idea. I have no gyno and a high sex drive so I think my estrogen levels are pretty under control. My diet is ok in salt.. I mean it's in there but not more than 2 grams a day. I drink 1.5 to 2 gallons of water a day. I'm fine dealing with the bloating if that's just how my body reacts, I just want to make sure more adex or less salt are needed.

I've made great gains so far, about 30lbs, half of which I'd imagine is water. But still, for week 5 that's extremely good.

[numbere]

The most important aspect of a first cycle is understanding how your body reacts to a supraphysiological amount of test.

It's very important that you learn how to control e2 sides not only to maximize gains but to prevent health issues.

Having high e2 poses a greater threat to your cardiovascular system than breast tissue or ED.

You should have BW that includes a sensitive e2 assay before changing your AI dose.

Without blood work you are only playing a guessing game.

[MaxVCad]

Thanks for the help. I went ahead and got labs done yesterday. It was surprisingly easy and inexpensive so I figured I'd do it right.. I can't share the URL to the full results due to forum restrictions but let me know if I omitted important numbers and I'll look.

Sodium, Serum: 140 mmol/L (Normal Range 134-144)
Testosterone, Serum (For Fun): 2,715 ng/dL (Normal Range 348-1197)
Estradiol: 30.7 pg/mL (Normal Range 7.6-42.6)

Estradiol is within range but if I'm seeing excess bloat should I increase adex by .25mg (currently doing .5mg MWF)? Sodium is within range so I'm thinking that's not the cause of the bloat.

Blood was taken 7 hours after I took .5mg of adex and did a 1ml shot of test e (250mg).

[numbere]

Good call on having labs.

Your numbers look good.

Your bloat is likely diet related.

Try eating 10% less carbs and 10% more fats.

If that that doesn't work then change your macros by 15 or 20%.

[SEOINAGE]

Don't change your adex dose. That's pretty well spot on.
Could be fat gain?

[Mr.BB]

Dont increase AI if e2 is in range, low e2 will cause problems.

Bloat can be very subjective, theres a member here who was confusing fat with bloat. Of course theres a little more of water retention when you are in a testosterone cycle, its normal.
If you want to reduce water retention you can try taking 50mg ed proviron, it will "harden up" your skin.

[chopsui]

I thought it was bloat but for me it was just fat and denial

[GSXRvi6]

I get VERY sensitive to sodium while on cycle, bloats me up as well as simple carbs, I puff up like crazy form simple carbs.

500mg of test every 3.5 days and your serum is only 2,715 - I would think it would be higher.

[MaxVCad]

I'm not doing a gram a week, that's hardcore!! It's 500mg a week, 250mg per injection. I think my serum is about right for that, no? I wasn't even close to my genetic maximum when I started this cycle so even that dosage is creating huge muscle and strength gains for me.

I don't have any proviron but I guess I don't mind the bloat as long as it's not being caused by an underlying health issue. I'm young (26) and healthy(just did physical, bloods and basic heart checkup 2 months ago) with single-digit bodyfat so I guess sometimes bloat is just bloat.

Just one last question to be sure.. The image below in the context of this thread doesn't look like excessive bloating (aka congestive heart failure)? I can just wear hi-tops to the gym so people don't see my cankles.

[Mr.BB]

Are those your feet???

[MaxVCad]

Yah.. I don't meen to disgust.

[Mr.BB]

Yeah, thats water retention and its a circulatory problem.
There were users with same problem, cant find thread now as im in phone.

[Bodacious]

Dang man I don't know what to tell you. Hopefully BB will be able to help you out. GL

[Ashop]

An AI will help with bloat and water retention. Be sure your drinking plenty of water daily too and eat clean,,,watch sodium.

[kelkel]

I thought it was bloat but for me it was just fat and denial

Funniest thing I've read in some time....

I'm not doing a gram a week, that's hardcore!! It's 500mg a week, 250mg per injection. I think my serum is about right for that, no? I wasn't even close to my genetic maximum when I started this cycle so even that dosage is creating huge muscle and strength gains for me.

I don't have any proviron but I guess I don't mind the bloat as long as it's not being caused by an underlying health issue. I'm young (26) and healthy(just did physical, bloods and basic heart checkup 2 months ago) with single-digit bodyfat so I guess sometimes bloat is just bloat.

Just one last question to be sure.. The image below in the context of this thread doesn't look like excessive bloating (aka congestive heart failure)? I can just wear hi-tops to the gym so people don't see my cankles.

High blood pressure can cause this as well.....

[Mr.BB]

Plenty of other members with same problem, check it out:

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...les-cycle.html

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...er-ankles.html

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...mpetition.html

[MaxVCad]

Thanks for the links BB.

I took my blood pressure today and it was 109/64 with a pulse of 69 so no problems there. Urine is very light colored due to my high water intake. So I'm thinking it's not heart or kidney issues. The swelling seems a bit better today than it has been. I'm going to wait it out a little while and see what happens.

My broscience theory is that: dbol creates massive amounts of water retention, but while on dbol, the body knows how to hold that excess liquid in the muscles. When stopping dbol, the body suddenly has a lot more water than it knows what to do with, and it takes time to release this water through the kidneys/urine. I just stopped a fairly high dose of dbol a week ago and didn't notice the bloating til 2 days off, which would make sense since that's about the time it would take for the dbol to stop having an effect on my system. Make sense? :-/ Next stop PhD.. jk

I'll post an update when I'm more confident the swelling has subsided.. Or if it hasn't in a week.

[Port1984]

How's your diet ?

[SEOINAGE]

Thanks for the links BB.

I took my blood pressure today and it was 109/64 with a pulse of 69 so no problems there. Urine is very light colored due to my high water intake. So I'm thinking it's not heart or kidney issues. The swelling seems a bit better today than it has been. I'm going to wait it out a little while and see what happens.

My broscience theory is that: dbol creates massive amounts of water retention, but while on dbol, the body knows how to hold that excess liquid in the muscles. When stopping dbol, the body suddenly has a lot more water than it knows what to do with, and it takes time to release this water through the kidneys/urine. I just stopped a fairly high dose of dbol a week ago and didn't notice the bloating til 2 days off, which would make sense since that's about the time it would take for the dbol to stop having an effect on my system. Make sense? :-/ Next stop PhD.. jk

I'll post an update when I'm more confident the swelling has subsided.. Or if it hasn't in a week.

Hopefully your theory is somewhat correct. I had these issues last for a while, doctor just told me to elevate my feet throughout hte day. Lasted a long time, till I made some more drastic changes. Right now I suprisingly have very little bloat like that, not sure what is different other than keeping to my macros better, and getting decent cardio in, and rarely eat much if any "dirty" food. Had some cinnamon rolls over the weekend and felt like it really bloated my legs up. Could be a food allergy or something else, not sure.

[NACH3]

Try taking b6 at least 2x a day - it'll help pull water out of your body(more of a natural way than diuretics...

Also, if your competing Id look into ECY stack... Or just the Yohimbine HCL - pulls water out of your lower extremities very well -- just a thought - but be sure to dial in your AI

[VV Cephei]

I thought it was bloat but for me it was just fat and denial

lol yea, I've been in a similar situation!

[MaxVCad]

I wanted to follow up on this with a complete summary of my cycle.. I know a lot of these threads die out and users don't provide info on what happened when it was all said and done.. So here goes:

I did a 10.5 week cycle. 500mg of Test-E per week, pinned 2x250mg every 3.5 days (Monday morning and Thursday after work). I kick-started with 50mg of dbol spread throughout the day (I think 5 doses a day since they were 10mg pills) for the first 4 weeks. I also used adex, .5mg MWF. PCT consisted of clomid, nolva and a testosterone supplement from Purus Labs called Recycle. Clomid doses were 100/50/50/25 and nolva was 40/20/20/20 with a taper to 10mg for about 4 days at the end. I'm still using the Recycle supplement just cuz I have some left, but at this point, I stopped clomid and nolva 5 days ago.

Now for the experience.. I felt the dbol kick in at around 5 days. I started getting massive pumps and lots of water retention in my muscles. Gained about 30lbs just during the first 3 weeks of my cycle. I started at 6'4" and 165lbs which is ridiculously low but I don't regret cycling at this low weight because it motivated me to learn how to eat properly and form better workout routines. I learned more on cycle than I had in the previous 3 years of working out naturally. I felt the test e kick in around week 4 or 5. My moods were not affected by steroids. The only change I noticed was that I had a large gain in confidence, which I used appropriately - not acting like a douche bag. My anger was completely the same as off-cycle. During the transition from dbol to test e, I lost about 5 lbs but gained all that back plus about 10 more during weeks 5-7 with the test-e in full effect. My peak weight was 205lbs. My body fat did not increase by more than 2% or so during the entire cycle and PCT experience. I ate about 2,500 calories during my first few weeks and ramped that up to 3,500-4,000/day during the remainder of the cycle. I still eat about 3,000 calories a day and am not gaining fat. I have a fast metabolism naturally. I noticed some bloating in my ankles when I stopped the dianabol. This continued until I stopped test-e injections. My ankles were back to normal by the time I began PCT (2 weeks after last pin). I chose to stop my cycle at 10.5 weeks because I just wasn't seeing any more gains. I was sitting steady at 205lbs from week 8 to week 10. I figured stopping early (planned 12 weeks) would allow me to PCT and get my natural test running faster, allowing me to cycle again sooner. There's no point in continuing a cycle if you aren't making gains. In hindsight I could have stopped at 8 weeks and seen basically the same gains.

My caloric intake consisted of 300g protein/day on-cycle, I'm now between 200 and 250g a day. My carb intake was slightly higher, probably 375g/day on-cycle and 300g/day now. Fat was probably around 80g/day on cycle, about the same now. About half my protein comes from whey protein powder. Protein is treated the same by your body regardless of what source it comes from. The only advantages of meat protein are that it is absorbed slower so you can eat more at once, it has other nutrients that can help your body and it will help you feel full more than a shake. My shakes consisted of 1 cup oats, 2-3 scoops of double-rich chocolate whey and a tablespoon or two of peanut butter. They went down the hatch totally fine, very quick and easy 800-900 calories. I did that twice a day on-cycle, once a day now.

Alright, now for PCT. The two weeks after my cycle I still felt I was 'on.' At week 2 of PCT (so 4 weeks after my last shot), I felt a little down. I think this was the point where test levels were at a low in my body. It wasn't anything too bad, I was mainly depressed because I had very little libido. My libido was down from about week 2 of PCT to week 3 of PCT. I could still get it up and perform/enjoy myself. I did use a boner pill just so I didn't have to worry about losing my hard-on halfway through sex. Only had to do that for a week or so though. I did notice I was a bit moody but I was also going through some serious turmoil in my personal life which likely made me notice more. I'm a very emotionally stable person naturally so for me to be borderline-crying was odd. Again, I think my moods would have been totally fine if it wasn't for the personal issues I was dealing with. You can't control what life throws at you! Now about a week off of PCT, I feel totally fine. Testosterone feels fine, libido is at like 80% and rising, moods are normal. I didn't lose much strength in the gym, almost none. I did lose about 10 lbs of weight. I am now at 195lbs. I think most of that 10lbs was water weight. I started creatine again on week 2 of PCT to help with water retention. I did not get any stretch marks on my body, I used stretch mark cream every morning by my arm pits and on my ass since those are two areas that seem to be prone to stretch marks. Not sure if this is why or if I just have stretchy skin but I'm glad I took the precaution.

In summary, I started at 165lbs and ended at 195lbs, about the same bodyfat. So a 30lb gain. Not bad! I don't expect to see 30lbs on my 2nd cycle. My goal right now is to exercise naturally and gain weight back up to 205lbs before I start my 2nd cycle in April. Goals from my 2nd cycle are to be at 220lbs after PCT. At that point I'll be happy with where I'm at and maintain indefinitely unless something changes. On my next cycle I'm going to skip the dbol and instead frontload 1g/week of test e. Taking an oral like dbol at 50mg/day for 4 weeks isn't really ideal. For a first-time cycler I'd have to say I had an excellent experience, almost life-changing. I'm very proud of my accomplishments and test-e gave me confidence that helped me permanently become a more confident person. I'll update this thread once more in March when I do post-cycle bloodwork. My feeling is that test levels will be fine.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

FYI - you are only a week off of PCT.
You won't know how much you kept from your cycle until at least 6 weeks after PCT.
Right now you still have PCT meds in your system.

[BeeStung]

FYI - you are only a week off of PCT.
You won't know how much you kept from your cycle until at least 6 weeks after PCT.
Right now you still have PCT meds in your system.

way to stomp on this guys hopes lol.

its nice to hear that you gained so much both mentally and physcially. if done right, running gear is very benefitical and depending on the uses could provide a lot of fun. i mean who doesnt like being 5'6 at 200lbs and 10% bf squating 420 benching 350 and DL 450?

[MaxVCad]

Just as another follow up, my weight never dropped below 195. I got it back up to 200 and have started my 2nd cycle. This time no dbol and a 2 week frontload of test-e. I honestly wouldn't recommend either to someone in their first few cycles. The frontload didn't seem to do much except give me a 3-day test flu. The dbol seems to be what caused the swelling, my feet are fine now (I'm about a month in). I'm up at 218 so far, I need to get to 230 if I'm gonna have any chance at meeting my target weight of 220 lbs off-cycle. Plan is to keep eating 4,000+ calories a day, 350+ grams of protein/day. Freaking bloat like crazy from the carbs, I look like I have a beer belly going to sleep at night but when I wake up it's flattened out. I don't recall this happening from my first cycle, oh well. I've got some probiotics coming in the mail, maybe that'll help. I'm gassing out my apartment as well so hopefully they'll help w/that too. Oh and heartburn. Eating like a machine is no joke.