Sarms vs Steroids

[applips]

Hey guys,

After reading the following
Sarms Vs. Testosterone - Sarms .com

I am still confused about the difference.

Is sarm more like hCG?

Cheers

[numbere]

Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator

[kallmenelly]

Huge diffrence like with sarms you don't have to use a needle and inject into your muscle like steroids. Also with sarms there is very little side effects and does not require a pct after cycling.

[tice1212]

Huge diffrence like with sarms you don't have to use a needle and inject into your muscle like steroids. Also with sarms there is very little side effects and does not require a pct after cycling.

Wait what? U don't need a pct after a SARM cycle?! Yes u do bro. I don't know where you've got ur info from but that's wrong. SARMS are still suppressive. I've done a SARM cycle with no test to see if it was true and guess what it is.

[kallmenelly]

Wait what? U don't need a pct after a SARM cycle?! Yes u do bro. I don't know where you've got ur info from but that's wrong. SARMS are still suppressive. I've done a SARM cycle with no test to see if it was true and guess what it is.

Nah! I'd say it would be safer to not run a pct after cycling a SARM then to not use a pct on test. Just run an ai if anything. That's just my opinion.

[applips]

Wait what? U don't need a pct after a SARM cycle?! Yes u do bro. I don't know where you've got ur info from but that's wrong. SARMS are still suppressive. I've done a SARM cycle with no test to see if it was true and guess what it is.

Nah! I'd say it would be safer to not run a pct after cycling a SARM then to not use a pct on test. Just run an ai if anything. That's just my opinion.

Thanks guys, what about hCG and an AI while on cycle?

[tice1212]

Thanks guys, what about hCG and an AI while on cycle?

Not if ur going to run sarm only bro.

[applips]

Not if ur going to run sarm only bro.

Thanks dude, So basically i assume there wont be any shutdown to the natural test production or estrogen increase in the body when using sarms.

Another question though, why dont people start from sarms instead of testosterones as it looks like sarms give you a large number of benefits same as testosterones with largely less issues such as not worrying about AI and also not to worry about shutting down of natural production

[Mr.BB]

SARMS are toxic and they do shut down your natural testosterone.

[applips]

SARMS are toxic and they do shut down your natural testosterone.

Hi BB, then why dont we run HCG on sarms cycle to ensure the flow of natural production

[Mr.BB]

Hi BB, then why dont we run HCG on sarms cycle to ensure the flow of natural production

Who is saying that??

I would never recomend sarms due to its toxicity and because there are plenty of well knowned steroids, that we have info for decades, that do the job better than sarms. Most sarms are old rejected steroids recipes anyways.
But if you do decide to use it, then you need a test base and the normal ancilliaries, which should include HCG.

[boisebeast]

Who is saying that?? I would never recomend sarms due to its toxicity and because there are plenty of well knowned steroids, that we have info for decades, that do the job better than sarms. Most sarms are old rejected steroids recipes anyways. But if you do decide to use it, then you need a test base and the normal ancilliaries, which should include HCG.

You're confusing SARMS with prohormones. I've yet to see a liver-toxic SARM.

To respond to the OP: SARMS are suppressive but if you dose them as intended, they shouldn't shut you down (keep in mind that the level of suppression can vary from person to person though as not everyone responses to drugs the same way). I've looked at a ton of bloodwork and generally speaking, you're looking at a pretty decent suppression to your natural test production, but much easier to recover from than a hard shutdown. I would at least run a short PCT of nolvadex/clomid. Does everyone need it? Maybe not depending on the dose of the SARM and the type that they took, but you can never be too careful when it comes to your hormones. Better day than sorry is the way to go.

[boisebeast]

You're confusing SARMS with prohormones. I've yet to see a liver-toxic SARM. To respond to the OP: SARMS are suppressive but if you dose them as intended, they shouldn't shut you down (keep in mind that the level of suppression can vary from person to person though as not everyone responses to drugs the same way). I've looked at a ton of bloodwork and generally speaking, you're looking at a pretty decent suppression to your natural test production, but much easier to recover from than a hard shutdown. I would at least run a short PCT of nolvadex/clomid. Does everyone need it? Maybe not depending on the dose of the SARM and the type that they took, but you can never be too careful when it comes to your hormones. Better SAFE than sorry is the way to go.

Damn autocorrect gets me every time

[Mr.BB]

You're confusing SARMS with prohormones. I've yet to see a liver-toxic SARM.

No. Im not confusing.

Im yet to see a sarm non-liver toxic.

[bass]

too many negative sides, not worth it. find my log, although it showed great signs but at the end i do not recommend it.

[Bigshotvictoria]

Nah! I'd say it would be safer to not run a pct after cycling a SARM then to not use a pct on test. Just run an ai if anything. That's just my opinion.

Can you supply us with some actual evidence that SARMs don't need PCT?

First, each SARM is different. They have different target receptors, and different effects on the body. SARM simply means a non-********* compound that selectively binds to androgen receptors; they can still differ greatly from on SARM to another. To say they are all safe and don't require PCT is silly.

Second, most SARMs available as RC's have a ton of literature showing at least some level of HPTA suppression at clinical doses, doses far lower than those being used for performance enhancement.

Third, everyone has different body chemistry. 10mg/day of LGD may be mildly suppressive for you, and highly suppressive for me. Again, you're painting with a very broad stroke here, ignoring the myriad of variables from user to user.

Finally, you suggest running an AI. This is counterintuitive to your "SARMs aren't really suppressive" argument. SARMs don't aromatase, and since natty levels aren't significantly effected --according to your argument-- then what rational is there for an AI?

[kallmenelly]

Can you supply us with some actual evidence that SARMs don't need PCT?

First, each SARM is different. They have different target receptors, and different effects on the body. SARM simply means a non-********* compound that selectively binds to androgen receptors; they can still differ greatly from on SARM to another. To say they are all safe and don't require PCT is silly.

Second, most SARMs available as RC's have a ton of literature showing at least some level of HPTA suppression at clinical doses, doses far lower than those being used for performance enhancement.

Third, everyone has different body chemistry. 10mg/day of LGD may be mildly suppressive for you, and highly suppressive for me. Again, you're painting with a very broad stroke here, ignoring the myriad of variables from user to user.

Finally, you suggest running an AI. This is counterintuitive to your "SARMs aren't really suppressive" argument. SARMs don't aromatase, and since natty levels aren't significantly effected --according to your argument-- then what rational is there for an AI?

Hey listen I have ran a SARM cycle with no pct and I was fine my test lvls did not even get suppressed after I was only as bit worried about gyno. It really varys per person. I took steroids with out no pct many times and just tapperd off near the end of the cycle, I had no side effects other than acne. Again some people are different. SARMS like Ostarine are great to preserve muscle that you currently already have due to injury and what not. Not the best muscle builder imo.

[Bigshotvictoria]

Hey listen I have ran a SARM cycle with no pct and I was fine my test lvls did not even get suppressed after I was only as bit worried about gyno. It really varys per person. I took steroids with out no pct many times and just tapperd off near the end of the cycle, I had no side effects other than acne. Again some people are different. SARMS like Ostarine are great to preserve muscle that you currently already have due to injury and what not. Not the best muscle builder imo.

That's nice for you; however you said there is no need for PCT with SARMs. I asked for evidence of this, and you've replied with "I don't really crash with SARMs or AAS so I don't PCT." You've ignored all of my points, and attempted some half-ass backing-out of your original statement.

So, you claim SARMs don't need PCT. I disagree. Since you are the one making the claim, I again ask if you could please provide actual evidence that this is so. And again, could you please explain why you suggest using an AI, it doesn't make sense for the reasons I've stated and would like to know if I'm missing something.

[bass]

Hey listen I have ran a SARM cycle with no pct and I was fine my test lvls did not even get suppressed after I was only as bit worried about gyno. It really varys per person. I took steroids with out no pct many times and just tapperd off near the end of the cycle, I had no side effects other than acne. Again some people are different. SARMS like Ostarine are great to preserve muscle that you currently already have due to injury and what not. Not the best muscle builder imo.

sounds like you were taking fake stuff!

[Bigshotvictoria]

sounds like you were taking fake stuff!

At 6ft 170lbs, that was my guess as well.

[kallmenelly]

Actually I'm 190lbs 6ft tall

[kallmenelly]

That's nice for you; however you said there is no need for PCT with SARMs. I asked for evidence of this, and you've replied with "I don't really crash with SARMs or AAS so I don't PCT." You've ignored all of my points, and attempted some half-ass backing-out of your original statement.

So, you claim SARMs don't need PCT. I disagree. Since you are the one making the claim, I again ask if you could please provide actual evidence that this is so. And again, could you please explain why you suggest using an AI, it doesn't make sense for the reasons I've stated and would like to know if I'm missing something.

http://www.*****************/ostarine-mk-2866

[Bigshotvictoria]

http://www.*****************/ostarine-mk-2866

Look at your link, it's all asterisks. Try a PM or writing it a different way.

[Mr.BB]

Look at your link, it's all asterisks. Try a PM or writing it a different way.

Better not, seems like a source link...

[tice1212]

Op didnt listen to kallmenelly and don't do a SARMS cycle only. Also bb I have never heard of sarms being toxic. Can u provide a link bro.

[Ashop]

Huge diffrence like with sarms you don't have to use a needle and inject into your muscle like steroids. Also with sarms there is very little side effects and does not require a pct after cycling.

And they are not nearly as effective as AAS at all IMO. Mild at best.

[Mr.BB]

Op didnt listen to kallmenelly and don't do a SARMS cycle only. Also bb I have never heard of sarms being toxic. Can u provide a link bro.

Post from Bass S4 log:

Okay folks, this morning i weighed 199 lbs and absolutely feel great, i can't wait to do chest tomorrow, i am almost out of my third bottle, but having second thoughts about ending the cycle, i am thinking to go through my forth bottle. i didn't feel any different by increasing t he dose to 150mgs per day, in fact i felt better when i was at 100mgs per day. Not sure yet but i think i will continue the cycle and go through my forth bottle. The main reason i wanted to end this cycle is because of my vision, i think i lost 70% of my vision at night, i am absolutely blind and can't drive at all, it’s too dangerous. i believe its best to run S4 in the summer where the day is longer, or daylight is longer, but of course that’s up to the individual. a friend of mine saw me today an complemented me about how thin I looked, also commented on how lean i looked. So these are the reasons i think i will continue and finish up my 4 bottles of S4. Not sure though, but i'll keep you posted.

Everything feel normal except the vision of course.

http://forums.steroid.com/sarms-sele...ml#post4919727

[bass]

Post from Bass S4 log:



http://forums.steroid.com/sarms-sele...ml#post4919727

there was a post where i concluded its not worth the sides. not sure about liver damage though, but for sure had to do PCT, it is suppressive. BTW i ran SARMS before i got on TRT. now that i am on TRT SARMS is crap compared to Testosterone.

[Juced_porkchop]

Huge diffrence like with sarms you don't have to use a needle and inject into your muscle like steroids. Also with sarms there is very little side effects and does not require a pct after cycling.

this is far from true. SARMs DO cause shutdown and you should do a pct after and in my op a test base during.
only these supp/rc places are now pushing no PCT needed as marketing ploy. there are studies and common sense would fill any gaps IMO.

it can have less sides and deff less than PH's, but dont fool self there is shutdown and pct should be done

[Juced_porkchop]

Nah! I'd say it would be safer to not run a pct after cycling a SARM then to not use a pct on test. Just run an ai if anything. That's just my opinion.

just run an AI? for what exactly? no AI in or for pct man...

[Juced_porkchop]

Hi BB, then why dont we run HCG on sarms cycle to ensure the flow of natural production

you could do that on a aas cycle but your still shut down, and HCG causes shutdown in its own way and why we dont rec it IN a pct. use hcg during r near end of cycle to help PCT, dont think its used to avoid it.

[Juced_porkchop]

Hey listen I have ran a SARM cycle with no pct and I was fine my test lvls did not even get suppressed after I was only as bit worried about gyno. It really varys per person. I took steroids with out no pct many times and just tapperd off near the end of the cycle, I had no side effects other than acne. Again some people are different. SARMS like Ostarine are great to preserve muscle that you currently already have due to injury and what not. Not the best muscle builder imo.

just because you did it doesnt make it smart man.... PCT is to HELP recovery. tapering and doing no pct is stupid and just prolonged your recovery.
so what if i did 5 cycles with no pct, doesnt make it smart.
im sorry but from your posts you seem to think you know more than you actually do, thats not to be an attack thats a fact here...

[enigma10]

So SARMs it is, now has anyone used a certain SARM during cutting ?

[Trapology]

I dont know much about sarms cause for my goals I dont see the point in using them
But i just wanna add something about PCT

I personally never use PCT, i understand its purpose I understand what it does. A lot of people dont agree with it, and there are some who have the same thinking as me. BUT thats all personal opinion and what I choose to do personally

With that said when it comes to people learning about gear, sarms whatever its never a good idea to tell, or even suggest that people dont use PCT. In a lot of cases it does more harm then good to not have it and I can tell you it takes a lot of tooling an experimenting to come to the conclusion that you might not need it. For anyone just starting, learning, or even someone who doesnt have A LOT of experience with PEDs its ALWAYS best to use PCT for ANYTHING that has any chance of suppressing something that is naturally occurring in your body

[musclestack]

I dont know much about sarms cause for my goals I dont see the point in using them
But i just wanna add something about PCT

I personally never use PCT, i understand its purpose I understand what it does. A lot of people dont agree with it, and there are some who have the same thinking as me. BUT thats all personal opinion and what I choose to do personally

With that said when it comes to people learning about gear, sarms whatever its never a good idea to tell, or even suggest that people dont use PCT. In a lot of cases it does more harm then good to not have it and I can tell you it takes a lot of tooling an experimenting to come to the conclusion that you might not need it. For anyone just starting, learning, or even someone who doesnt have A LOT of experience with PEDs its ALWAYS best to use PCT for ANYTHING that has any chance of suppressing something that is naturally occurring in your body

Comment to highlighted text: If you know what PCT is used for, I'm interested in your rationale in choosing not to use it.

[tice1212]

Comment to highlighted text: If you know what PCT is used for, I'm interested in your rationale in choosing not to use it.

I was thinking the same exact thing. Please elaborate

[Trapology]

When I was young I didnt know anything about gear, didnt know much about researching on the internet so i didnt know the proper way to do things, i ran every cycle with no pct, ran cycles with test as no base, list goes on and on

Fast forward a few years im much more knowledgeable and I run dont run anything more then 125mg test e and 100mg tren E for 10 months and I take 2 off. So although I understand my body being younger helped the rebound in the early years, I ran the cycle I just said without running pct to see if I would have problems recovering and I never have. Im not prone to gyno and i never have any of the problems people complain about when I come off. At the end of the 2 months I get blood work done to see if i returned to normal and I have every time

So when

[Trapology]

I always keep things to be bare minimum I dont even barley use any supplements. So seeing my body can recover just fine, i choose not to add additional things at the end of a cycle i dont feel are necessary. I think people now a days get too caught up in over researching things and get in a habit in over doing things, that goes for the cycle to the supplements to the pct

[applips]

Thanks guys, its really a knowledgeable debate. I have a way better understanding of sarms now and it sounds like sarms effectiveness varys person to person and type to type. Also getting the correct dose will require a good homework, close observation and variable doses during the cycle to meet your needs - then you also have AI, HCG & PCT so if sarms are going to bring the same amount of homework with less benefits then i believe may be they are not worth a try.

[Nephets]

I think the benefits with sarms like lgd are good gains, no injections, and low to no risk of gyno. You can get better results on steroids if the injections aren't and issue for you and you have the correct things in place to reduce the risk of sides. Seems like it would be used for someone who is just starting to test the waters with performance enhancing drugs.