Tren question

[upperhandy]

For experiences users

Me 39yo
180#
Sub 10%bf
3/4/5 b/sq/dl

I have a couple sporadic 500mg test cycles under my belt and one 500mg test/300mg deca cycle

Considering 250mg test/250mg tren cycle and was wondering how strength gains will compare

Thanks

[TheTaxMan]

thats going to be an impossible question to answer imo

your lifestyle, diet, training, mental state and remember everyones different.

my guess would be the strength is not going to be that much different

[musclestack]

I've run Test/NPP (same as Deca, just shorter ester) and Test/Tren. The strength gains on Tren were a bit better than NPP, but not by large amounts, however, I was running about 400 mg per week of both Tren and NPP (in separate cycles). So, if you respond like I do to each compound, all other things being equal (diet, training, and rest), I would say that you would have better strength gains on the Test/Deca than the Test/Tren, given your suggested dosages. Not to mention, for me, there are far less sides with NPP than Tren.

If you want to run Tren, I personally would keep the Test at 500mg per week. You can give Tren at 250mg a shot, see how it works for you, and adjust from there. Many people see great results with low-dose Tren.

[upperhandy]

I've run Test/NPP (same as Deca, just shorter ester) and Test/Tren. The strength gains on Tren were a bit better than NPP, but not by large amounts, however, I was running about 400 mg per week of both Tren and NPP (in separate cycles). So, if you respond like I do to each compound, all other things being equal (diet, training, and rest), I would say that you would have better strength gains on the Test/Deca than the Test/Tren, given your suggested dosages. Not to mention, for me, there are far less sides with NPP than Tren.

If you want to run Tren, I personally would keep the Test at 500mg per week. You can give Tren at 250mg a shot, see how it works for you, and adjust from there. Many people see great results with low-dose Tren.

I'm a little surprised to hear that. I would have thought with trens a/a ratio being 500/500 that it would have outpaced the deca (125/40?) by a long shot.

Def gonna stick to 250mg tren cause it's my 1st run with it. May consider bumping test to 500mg.

But to be honest was kinda looking forward to running lower test dose. I tend to get a bit of bacne aid starating in week 8. Severity is dose dependent.

[rGus]

Npp will give more strengh than tren? That's nonsense.


And you don't have to run test at high dosage. If I were you would run 350 mg for test and 200 mg for tren. Later on your cycle bump tren up to 250 and then maybe even 300. You'll love the results.

[musclestack]

I'm a little surprised to hear that. I would have thought with trens a/a ratio being 500/500 that it would have outpaced the deca (125/40?) by a long shot.

Def gonna stick to 250mg tren cause it's my 1st run with it. May consider bumping test to 500mg.

But to be honest was kinda looking forward to running lower test dose. I tend to get a bit of bacne aid starating in week 8. Severity is dose dependent.

Npp will give more strengh than tren? That's nonsense.


And you don't have to run test at high dosage. If I were you would run 350 mg for test and 200 mg for tren. Later on your cycle bump tren up to 250 and then maybe even 300. You'll love the results.

Notice that I said "given your suggested dosages". I was comparing my Test/NPP cycle to my Test/Tren cycle, where I ran both the NPP and Tren at ~400mg/week. I gained slightly more strength with the Tren, but if he were to run NPP at 400mg (as I did) compared to 250mg/week of Tren, I feel he would fare better with the Test/NPP cycle. I think people get a little too optimistic when they hear "Tren is 5 times more anabolic and androgenic than Test". This does not mean that you're going to gain 5x more with a Test/Tren cycle as opposed to just running Test alone. Furthermore, I am only letting you know what I have personally experienced. I had absolutely amazing results running NPP. For me, however, it was also about gains vs. side effects. For the slight advantage that Tren gave me over NPP in the strength department (again, mg for mg), the extra sides were not worth it to me, which is why I prefer NPP (in ways...yes, Tren has its place as well). So, given the OP's dosages, I would favor running something like 400mg of NPP, as opposed to 250mg Tren. In this individual case, and in my opinion, NPP > Tren. Please do not confuse this with me saying "NPP is better than Tren for strength".

[rGus]

Notice that I said "given your suggested dosages". I was comparing my Test/NPP cycle to my Test/Tren cycle, where I ran both the NPP and Tren at ~400mg/week. I gained slightly more strength with the Tren, but if he were to run NPP at 400mg (as I did) compared to 250mg/week of Tren, I feel he would fare better with the Test/NPP cycle. I think people get a little too optimistic when they hear "Tren is 5 times more anabolic and androgenic than Test". This does not mean that you're going to gain 5x more with a Test/Tren cycle as opposed to just running Test alone. Furthermore, I am only letting you know what I have personally experienced. I had absolutely amazing results running NPP. For me, however, it was also about gains vs. side effects. For the slight advantage that Tren gave me over NPP in the strength department (again, mg for mg), the extra sides were not worth it to me, which is why I prefer NPP (in ways...yes, Tren has its place as well). So, given the OP's dosages, I would favor running something like 400mg of NPP, as opposed to 250mg Tren. In this individual case, and in my opinion, NPP > Tren. Please do not confuse this with me saying "NPP is better than Tren for strength".

That's a good analogy. Thanks for clearing things up.

[TheTaxMan]

this is why i said its impossible to answer, theres too many variables and we all react different to different compounds and doseages.

the only way to find out is try both for yourself

[NACH3]

Npp will give more strengh than tren? That's nonsense.


And you don't have to run test at high dosage. If I were you would run 350 mg for test and 200 mg for tren. Later on your cycle bump tren up to 250 and then maybe even 300. You'll love the results.

Another thing to consider is how much rest one is getting on cycle(with either compound)as off me when I run short esters I sleep like I'm on tren, although I am not lol... hence why imho nandrolone is a surefire way to gain great strength and size(NPP or deca)... I've run both(not to mention both nandrolone esters) seemed just as good for stretto than tren except the hard dry look That tren gives... Some have a harder time eating on tren too... Now I'm surely not trying to cut tren short(it is the strongest compound a/a rating/ratio there is)!! Also, if your not cutting or anything then run your test higher! That's what makes us men and helps us grow much more!!

I'll agree with Musclestack and Tax... As well as know there is nothing like experiencing it for yourself!

What are your goals OP? A more leaner dryer look? Then go with Low dose tren - if nutrition and training are on point you'll get great results with both!

[upperhandy]

What are your goals OP? A more leaner dryer look? Then go with Low dose tren - if nutrition and training are on point you'll get great results with both!

Finishing up a hell of a cut.... have two weeks left.
Spent the last two years more or less doing 5x5, 5/3/1, madcow types of programs getting my lifts up. My strength has gone to shit on this cut and I'm looking to get bigger and stronger while staying in the 10-12%bf range..... doable if your nutrition is 100% on point

began cut at the beginning of the year
217lb
~20% bf
lifts here 3/4/5 b/sq/dl
current
180lb
sub 10%bf


I'll be getting a dexa scan at the end of this, but I plan to end up in the 173/6% range.

Figure this would be a great time to jump on and reap some big gains... but I also wanted to capitalize on my new found nutrition habits and keep my diet 100% in check.....
looking for new pr's in the 3 major lifts...will be running the RTS 9week lifting program...

[NACH3]

Finishing up a hell of a cut.... have two weeks left.
Spent the last two years more or less doing 5x5, 5/3/1, madcow types of programs getting my lifts up. My strength has gone to shit on this cut and I'm looking to get bigger and stronger while staying in the 10-12%bf range..... doable if your nutrition is 100% on point

began cut at the beginning of the year
217lb
~20% bf
lifts here 3/4/5 b/sq/dl
current
180lb
sub 10%bf


I'll be getting a dexa scan at the end of this, but I plan to end up in the 173/6% range.

Figure this would be a great time to jump on and reap some big gains... but I also wanted to capitalize on my new found nutrition habits and keep my diet 100% in check.....
looking for new pr's in the 3 major lifts...will be running the RTS 9week lifting program...

It would be a great time to cycle... Your glycogen levels will be at a minimum(for how long - if you time this right you' should explode)... It's like priming... Picture your body as a sponge it's going to soak up and flush all the nutrients Into those muscles... Eat big and train hard heavy and intense - start reading this thread

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-l...eon%2A%2A.html

Congrats on the weight loss and getting down there - it takes a ton if dicispline!

[musclestack]

That's a good analogy. Thanks for clearing things up.

No problem, brother. After re-reading my first post, I can see how the point I was trying to make could have been misconstrued. Long day at work!

As mentioned, the only way to really see what works best for you is to try different compounds at different dosages. Give low-dose Tren a shot; I'm sure you'll be happy with the results. Then maybe after that, you could try a higher dose next time or give NPP a shot to compare. Good luck!

[upperhandy]

a quick follow on...... why do folks cut the tren 2 weeks before the test?
with deca i get it... you need to give the longer ester a longer time to clear, but if are running say test e/tren e the esters should clear at about the same rate. and yet i'm seeing a lot of people spouting that you should cut tren two weeks early....

[TheTaxMan]

i run test e longer than tren e, although they are likely to clear at the same time, better to be safe than sorry? i always run test longer than any 19nor regardless of the esters used

[krugerr]

a quick follow on...... why do folks cut the tren 2 weeks before the test? with deca i get it... you need to give the longer ester a longer time to clear, but if are running say test e/tren e the esters should clear at about the same rate. and yet i'm seeing a lot of people spouting that you should cut tren two weeks early....

Ignore that nonsense.

If you're using Enanthate/action ate they're likely to clear at approximately the same time due to the very similar half lives.
For that reason you're going to have about 1/2 the levels by 1 week off, and 1/4 levels by 2 weeks off.
That's plenty low enough to start your PCT.

Sent from my iPhone using App

[TheTaxMan]

Ignore that nonsense.

If you're using Enanthate/action ate they're likely to clear at approximately the same time due to the very similar half lives.
For that reason you're going to have about 1/2 the levels by 1 week off, and 1/4 levels by 2 weeks off.
That's plenty low enough to start your PCT.

Sent from my iPhone using App

what happens if hes using UGL and gets test Prop instead of test Enth in his vial due to wrong labelling?
i know thats probably rare but like i said above, better safe than sorry.

same could happen if he was on test prop and tren ace but accidently ends up with tren enth, and if he drops them both at the same time he will
have the tren enth for a further 2 weeks in his body after he drops his test... not good

if he runs his test 2 weeks longer than the tren no matter what esters, he can cover his ass well.

[upperhandy]

Last follow on
With what I have on hand I could do one of three options. Leaning toward option B
All options test e 12 weeks at 250mg

A) tren e @ 200mg 12 weeks
B) tren e @ 240mg 10 weeks
C) tren e @ 300mg 8 weeks

Opinions?

[TheTaxMan]

a or b, but i think tren is a lil advanced for you atm, try nandrolone first