Strange approach Bill

[DocToxin8]

It's important not to get to complacent and think there's only one way to do things, and then use all available studies not to find new ways of doing things, but to "prove" that the established theory at is THE way.
(Problem with that kind of thinking is that with bias, one can often find a way to explain a study to fit with the prevailing idea, instead using the information to see if there's new ways to doing things)

With all of this said, I've come across and article by Bill Roberts that go very much contrary to what we would normally advice.

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/t...steroid-cycle/

The article is from 2016 and have probably allready been discussed, but I hadn't seen it before.
Reading it, I was at first sceptical but open minded, and thought he raised some interesting points.

And if we were simply talking a 2 week cycle, with ample recovery time it might work.
But when he continues with 2 on 2 off weeks.
, I believe that even with acetate, you'll have little chance of actually recovering. You just have two weeks to flush your system, (1week to get rid of the AAS, 2.week might see levels drop enough to begin recovery to happen.

So, I'm struggling to see it make sense.
But, being open minded, i wouldn't want to discount the whole article without some argument.

What do you all think about this?

[songdog]

I have never agreed with a new person too aas using tren and after reading that I stand by my decision.Why would one use the most powerful compound for his 1st cycle? Not even to mention how many people tren has messed up over the yrs.Tren has gotten a rep it doesn't deserve as being the miracle drug that will push you to the next level.And this is sad beacuse I have seen a guy on his 1st cycle run tren 100mg ED thinking this was a good thing.This is another example of Roberts being so far out in right field he isn't even in the game if guys are going too use aas they need to be educated the proper way for their safety.Not have some idiot tell them the best way too cure a headache is too cut your head off.IMOP guys like him shouldn't be allowed to put things in print where some unknowing people will think this is the correct thing too do.

[Mr.BB]

Dont know whos Bill, but it seems he is somebody who sells steroids (dealer or manufacturer) cause he seems to have no regards to the HPT axis of whoever is reading.

If someone made the informed decision of doing steroids and knows that his HPTA can be damaged but doesnt mind of going TRT, thats fine.

But who on his first cycle is in this situation???

On your first cycle you are just experimenting, many times its not an informed decision. You are just testing the waters, wanting some gains or copying your friends, many times saying you will only do 1 cycle. Does someone like this should do trenbolone (or nandrolone for what matter, trestolone is rare) and as we all know risk permanent damage that can lead to a life of hormonal problems??

About the 2 weeks cycle, he is probably old, because thats been around for ages. I like to think that we now evolved and with all information available we dont need to experiment this kind of things.
He is probably still advising nolva as an AI....

[evanescent]

Given the anabolic rating of Tren and the claim that most can handle up to 450mg a week, isn't that basically the equivalent of suggesting first timers use ~2250mg/week test? I could see that being a problem given the most common recommendation is 500 ... Plus on top of that, no mention of stacking the Tren on top of TRT level Test.

Would a first cycle of 100mg/w Test and 80-100mg/w Tren be all that bad though? The main difference is the switch from AI's to DA's.

[DocToxin8]

I'm thinking the guy is basing this more on theoretical mumblings with his own head than real world outcomes.
What made me think twice in the first place was that just recently I set up a standard test e cycle for a beginner, 500mg/week.
And I noticed one thing; it was a heck of a lot of compounds to get for only 20ml of 250mg/mL test e.
(Ofcourse one could add in some prop at the start and finish and evolve it somewhat, but basically what he'd be running would be simply 500mg test e or week)
But according to my own experience that is PLENTY to grow!
It's just that when you look at a 10week cycle of it, and see all the other compounds: AI, hcg, SERMs... then one begins to think, wow, that's a lot of ancillaries for just some test.
And I'd think one would recover just as well from 1G/week as 500mg/week of test, provided the cycle length is the same.

Bills choice of compound; trenbolone, is notorious for being hard on the HPTA.
And I can't see an benefit in using that instead of just a higher test dose if one is to "make sure" (by dosage) that the cycle will yield results if everything else is in check. 1G test/week should be a breeze compared to the tren dose he's suggesting.

[cousinmuscles]

I didn't see the article reference to a single study. Just a bunch of arbitrary facts thrown around and then conclusions based on that. Seems obvious the author has never practiced what they preached.

I have heard much worse in gyms from stubborn people who would not even want to learn what an AI does.

Many times I discuss nutrition and other health related stuff and try to explain things to people, but they will refute me because some book they read said this or that. Suddenly we must eat low GI foods, we are lactose and gluten intolerant, flour is suddenly unhealthy (nevermind thousands of years of consumption by humans, today it is deadly!), carbs are bad et.c.

Well we are here and there is ample information here regarding the HPTA. If someone would willingly choose not to believe the information based on science, and make up their own beliefs, I don't give a damn personally.

[evanescent]

I've noticed two patterns reading about tren lately:

A) The research done about it doesn't seem to match-up with peoples personal experiences (William Llewellyn seems to be quoted lots, who thinks progestin is to blame and not prolactin despite the fact most using Caber miraculously don't end up with gyno. A lot of animal studies are mentioned also which probably isn't the best idea considering we're interested in male human endocrinology. )

B) People who've done damage to themselves probably would have found a way to do damage to themselves regardless, Tren just seems to be the brightest glowing tard-flame that attracts the moths. I'd expect it to only get worse now that Youtube celebrity trainers doing their little 'steroids and stims exposed!!~" videos pretty much only mention Tren and Clen.

[-Ender-]

His methods might apply to someone on TRT. But I see no mention of that in the article.

[MuscleScience]

I think I'm probably one of the most avid proponents of alternative cycles. But even I see little logic in this set up. 2 weeks cycles are worthless and in my mind, the fluctuating hormone levels would do more harm than good.

There would have been no way I would have been able to handle Tren as a first cycle. I think the article was more click bait than anything.