Building muscle and burning fat

[Seamac]

Open to all,suggestions. Background. Started back in gym about 15 months ago. Ballooned up to 245 at 5'9". About 38% bf. down to 190 and about 25% bf. current workout is 2 day split. Day 1 back and biceps. Day 2 chest shoulders and triceps. Day 3 45 min cardio. Day 4 legs and abs. Try and get at least 30 min cardio after each workout. HIIT or just walk on treadmill. Day 5 rest. Day six start over.

Diet:
Meal 1, 1 whole egg and 4 eggs just white. Half cup of brown rice or oatmeal. Cup of cooked spinach. 3 oz chicken breast.

Meal 2 protein shake

Meal 3 6 plz chicken breast or salmon. Half cup brown rice and as much broccoli as possible.

Meal 4 protein shake and banana.

Meal 5 same as meal three.

Meal 6 protein shake.

[YoungRoidBoy]

Open to all,suggestions. Background. Started back in gym about 15 months ago. Ballooned up to 245 at 5'9". About 38% bf. down to 190 and about 25% bf. current workout is 2 day split. Day 1 back and biceps. Day 2 chest shoulders and triceps. Day 3 45 min cardio. Day 4 legs and abs. Try and get at least 30 min cardio after each workout. HIIT or just walk on treadmill. Day 5 rest. Day six start over.

Diet:
Meal 1, 1 whole egg and 4 eggs just white. Half cup of brown rice or oatmeal. Cup of cooked spinach. 3 oz chicken breast.

Meal 2 protein shake

Meal 3 6 plz chicken breast or salmon. Half cup brown rice and as much broccoli as possible.

Meal 4 protein shake and banana.

Meal 5 same as meal three.

Meal 6 protein shake.

Seems like a decent diet, but may be too many calories to lose the fat.
I do not think you need as many protein shakes.
I would down a protein shake after your workouts and call it good.
Possibly split your chicken/salmon to 4oz for three meals. Thats about 125 grams of protein right there.
Have your rice for only two meals.
Maybe another serving of fruits and veggies. Apples, carrots, oranges.
Have a couple cups of fat free milk as well.

If you're looking to build muscle, intake about .8-.9 g. of protein per pound.
Get 1 g. carbs per pound
And try to keep fats between 45-70 grams for your weight.

Do 10-15 minutes of HIIT after every other workout. Helps with metabolic rate and efficient fat loss.
Forget the 45 minutes of cardio on your third day and just hit legs.
Have a rest day, 2 if necessary, then start your cycle over again.

It takes time.
Good luck brother!!

[CharlesThe4th]

As much as you don't want to hear this, it's not possible to diet and gain muscle at the same time. To build muscle you need to eat more calories than you burn in a day. The best you can do while eating in a calorie deficit is lose as little muscle as possible. Unless you're on a cycle and train hard you won't lose muscle. Eat as many calories as you need in a day (tdee) and put yourself in a calorie deficit by cardio and lifting. That will slowly peel the fat off and preserve muscle. If you're not familiar with tdee or macros do some research.

[YoungRoidBoy]

I do not care to be rude or on a high horse, but Charles is spewing completely false information. It is possible to gain muscle and lose weight. It is all about balancing your macros while being in a calorie deficit. Many studies show this. Though it is difficult to achieve, it is completely possible. There is a link to a summary of one such study below. Like I said before, it takes time.

Charles is somewhat correct when it comes to losing fat extremely quickly. If I were not on a cycle and using clen, t3, or some other cutting agent my muscles would become catabolic, or becoming lower in mass. A cycle would help preserve my muscle when trying to cut an extreme amount in an extremely short time.

Just trying to share some knowledge!
Good luck fellas.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0127132741.htm

[Obs]

Charles said it all.

[Obs]

I do not care to be rude or on a high horse, but Charles is spewing completely false information. It is possible to gain muscle and lose weight. It is all about balancing your macros while being in a calorie deficit. Many studies show this. Though it is difficult to achieve, it is completely possible. There is a link to a summary of one such study below. Like I said before, it takes time.

Charles is somewhat correct when it comes to losing fat extremely quickly. If I were not on a cycle and using clen, t3, or some other cutting agent my muscles would become catabolic, or becoming lower in mass. A cycle would help preserve my muscle when trying to cut an extreme amount in an extremely short time.

Just trying to share some knowledge!
Good luck fellas.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0127132741.htm

It is a plain and simple waste of time to try to burn fat and gain muscle. Cut fat till 15% or less, then bulk. Charles is not spewing anything false. He just laid out the most cost effective means. Cutting fat and gaining muscle is possible at the same time. 2 grams of tren a week will do some strange shit. Point is it is a waste of time you could have spent burning fat, preparing for a bulk to build muscle in a cost effective manner.

[YoungRoidBoy]

He was giving false information as he said cutting fat and gaining muscle is not possible.

I don't see how bulking and cutting is more cost effective than just cutting fat and gaining muscle.
The whole cutting and bulking routine is such an old school method.
Why go through major ups and downs when you can steadily gain while steadily cut fat.

It is as simple as cutting back 150-200 calories from your bodies daily consumption of energy.

[Obs]

He was giving false information as he said cutting fat and gaining muscle is not possible.

I don't see how bulking and cutting is more cost effective than just cutting fat and gaining muscle.
The whole cutting and bulking routine is such an old school method.
Why go through major ups and downs when you can steadily gain while steadily cut fat.

It is as simple as cutting back 150-200 calories from your bodies daily consumption of energy.

Your last line, cut 150-200 calories, this is what I mean by waste of time.
Cut 300-500, get the job done quickly focusing on fat burning with as little muscle wasting as possible. Then bulk like you mean it.
The "old school" method may seem silly to a "young roid boy" but it is the sigle most effective way of adding mass.
The more fat you have, the more your food goes to making more fat, rather than repairing muscle.

Do not cycle or bulk until you are lean and ready to do so. It is the most efficient means.

[YoungRoidBoy]

What? hahaha
"The more fat you have, the more your food goes to making more fat, rather than repairing muscle."
This may be the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.
Fat does not repair muscle, protein does. Duhhh.
Fat helps with growth due to their essential uses in the body. Cell membranes and such.

"youngboyroid" lifts more as a natty than you could with any cycle.
Also, take a exercise science class sometime. Maybe you will learn something.

[Obs]

What? hahaha
"The more fat you have, the more your food goes to making more fat, rather than repairing muscle."
This may be the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.
Fat does not repair muscle, protein does. Duhhh.
Fat helps with growth due to their essential uses in the body. Cell membranes and such.

"youngboyroid" lifts more as a natty than you could with any cycle.
Also, take a exercise science class sometime. Maybe you will learn something.

Are you one of those guys that turns fat into muscle at the gym??? I wish you would teach me boy.
I think its facinating you found a beytter way than hundreds of thousands here have with all of the anabolic research since the beginning of time. I know more about getting big efficiently than you I assure you. I wish you had been there to teach Coleman, Yates, Schwarzenegger, Cutler and the thousands before them. Who would have thought a young messiah would come and change it all with a better way.

[kelkel]

"youngboyroid" lifts more as a natty than you could with any cycle.

I couldn't care less about the point of this conversation, but after the above comment you really should back it up with a pic or two.....

[YoungRoidBoy]

Are you one of those guys that turns fat into muscle at the gym??? I wish you would teach me boy.
I think its facinating you found a beytter way than hundreds of thousands here have with all of the anabolic research since the beginning of time. I know more about getting big efficiently than you I assure you. I wish you had been there to teach Coleman, Yates, Schwarzenegger, Cutler and the thousands before them. Who would have thought a young messiah would come and change it all with a better way.

I wish you could learn.
The bodybuilders you named never went on a "bulk", they were just in the off-season.
You want somebody to be 3-4% fat year round?
And if they don't, you call it a bulk?
Albeit I am sure that Coleman and Yates wished they knew about the research going on today, you are comparing some dude who is 5'9" at 190 to the greatest bodybuilders of all time.
Just to get your outdated, lame, overwritten point across?
How pathetic is that.

[YoungRoidBoy]

6'2"238 this morning.

[Obs]

I wish you could learn.
The bodybuilders you named never went on a "bulk", they were just in the off-season.
You want somebody to be 3-4% fat year round?
And if they don't, you call it a bulk?
Albeit I am sure that Coleman and Yates wished they knew about the research going on today, you are comparing some dude who is 5'9" at 190 to the greatest bodybuilders of all time.
Just to get your outdated, lame, overwritten point across?
How pathetic is that.

I do not know why you are on this board if you believe you can burn fat and build muscle on a cycle more efficiently than simply cutting down fat and blasting off on a bulk cycle. You condition your body to build muscle before ever starting a bulk diet or you will piss ass around and not gain lean mass half as fast as you could have.
Cut the fat and work from there. There are guys on this board who have gone from 255lb to 135lb. Why don't you go tell one about burning fat and building muscle.
The leaner you are the more efficiently you build lean mass.

[Obs]

6'2"238 this morning.

Cute. Now lose about 35lb of fat and we will be in the same class but I will still have more lbm.
I bet your dick is bigger than mine though.

[MuscleScience]

To the OP,

You can do a body recomp. Basically if you balance your macros perfectly you can lose fat and gain Lean body mass. In one pound of muscle there is roughly 100 grams of protein. It takes roughly 3500 calories to add a pound of muscle. So as you can see it takes a lot of work to add on muscle. If you changed your macros, up the protein and keep your other macros as close to a total in versus out your body will use some of its fat stores for the energy it takes to run the new muscle mass you have put on. This takes much more time but technically can be done. Of course anabolics helps this process faster but if you're very out of shape and such it's probably not the most safe or effective use of AAS.

[CharlesThe4th]

Sh!t I need to listen to this guy's advice. I guess everyone on this forum is wrong including me. If I could turn my fat into muscle I'd have all of you beat! I'm still trying to though.

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[MuscleScience]

Sh!t I need to listen to this guy's advice. I guess everyone on this forum is wrong including me. If I could turn my fat into muscle I'd have all of you beat! I'm still trying to though.

Sent from my SM-S902L using Tapatalk

Unfortunately for me I have done this body recomp thing a few times including now. You don't technically turn fat into muscle. You make use of the excess stored energy in your body to in part fuel muscle growth. Because of the 3500 calories it takes to make one pound of muscle, only 400 of that is in the form of protein. So the rest of the 3100 calories must be found somewhere. If you do it right, you can take some of that energy from your own fat stores to use instead of relying solely on extra nutrition. Also, this is exactly what your body does anyway when you go into a caloric deficient state. It uses your fat stores to run its metabolic processes and your ingested food to maintain circulating protein levels to keep your tissues from turning over.

Also as you put on lean body mass your TDEE increases so your body has to account for that as well.

[Obs]

Unfortunately for me I have done this body recomp thing a few times including now. You don't technically turn fat into muscle. You make use of the excess stored energy in your body to in part fuel muscle growth. Because of the 3500 calories it takes to make one pound of muscle, only 400 of that is in the form of protein. So the rest of the 3100 calories must be found somewhere. If you do it right, you can take some of that energy from your own fat stores to use instead of relying solely on extra nutrition. Also, this is exactly what your body does anyway when you go into a caloric deficient state. It uses your fat stores to run its metabolic processes and your ingested food to maintain circulating protein levels to keep your tissues from turning over.

Also as you put on lean body mass your TDEE increases so your body has to account for that as well.

I am not capable of it. My tdee fluctuate too much and I dont know my body well enough. It would either take more forever or I would lose too much mass in the process or both. A recomp takes a fairly lean pro imo. Someone like you.

[Obs]

I will put it this way, the only thing holding me back is my diet/tdee.

[CharlesThe4th]

Technically you're right but it's terribly inefficient. Some people can't even do it because of their body composition. Regardless it's a bunch of crap. Cutting and bulking are the way to go. Good luck on any alternatives.

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[MuscleScience]

I am not capable of it. My tdee fluctuate too much and I dont know my body well enough. It would either take more forever or I would lose too much mass in the process or both. A recomp takes a fairly lean pro imo. Someone like you.

Like I said I have done it a number of times. It's not ideal, but with all the stupidness I caused myself by getting injured it's not ideal to strictly cut or strictly bulk when you can train 100%. You either lose to much muscle or put on to much fat respectively.

[Obs]

Like I said I have done it a number of times. It's not ideal, but with all the stupidness I caused myself by getting injured it's not ideal to strictly cut or strictly bulk when you can train 100%. You either lose to much muscle or put on to much fat respectively.

I fully respect you being able to do it. It takes knowing your body. I know I could do it but I am too dumb.

[GirlyGymRat]

Like I said I have done it a number of times. It's not ideal, but with all the stupidness I caused myself by getting injured it's not ideal to strictly cut or strictly bulk when you can train 100%. You either lose to much muscle or put on to much fat respectively.

I lost 40 pounds doing a recomp in 5 months. I was on hgh for 9 months starting it 2 months before drastically changing diet to very clean and working out 6/7 days weekly, first relying more on cardio and then incorporating more weights. It's not impossible to recomp.

I got really frustrated in month 6 and started drawing down on calories. I was working out 4 days a week, partly due to injuries from overtraining and eventually trashed my metabolism. I learned a lot about what to do and not what to do.

Not sure I figured it all out lolololol but learned that I was in better shape the more I lifted. And the more I lifted the stronger I got. The more junk I put in my pie hole, the more fat I gained.

In summary, I'm not a fan of dirty bulks, I'm not convinced one approach is the best approach and what works for one might not be what is needed for the next guy / gal depending on where they are at in there personal journey.

[Seamac]

Wow! I'm no genius or expert on this subject but I can tell you this. 18 months ago I was at 250 and 38% bf. I am now at 190 and 23% bf. I know I have gained muscle and lost fat. It has been a very slow process and I was just looking for some pointers on maybe speeding the process up. Just trying to recomp the body. I think I'll just stick to what I'm doing and tweek the diet. Not looking to be massive just be much better than I was.

[MuscleScience]

Technically you're right but it's terribly inefficient. Some people can't even do it because of their body composition. Regardless it's a bunch of crap. Cutting and bulking are the way to go. Good luck on any alternatives.

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If you look at a lot of studies on the effects of resistance exercise in different populations you will notice a theme. The diet is typically a net zero diet that they describe. Meaning they tell the participants to continue to eat what they normally would eat so that the only variable is if they were in the exercise group or not. Almost across the board participates will lose fat mass and gain fat free mass but may or may it actually drop wieght. Even in aged and older adults, the research strongly suggests just the addition of a proper wieght training regime can change a persons' body composition for the better. While true it has little effect on overall BMI. Unfortunately for a number of years everything was calculated off of BMI and not on body composition. Hence why older literature will say resistance exercise only is not effective at weight loss and why It still persist in popular lore that one can't gain fat free mass and cut fat mass without changing diet drastically.

[Back In Black]

Wow! I'm no genius or expert on this subject but I can tell you this. 18 months ago I was at 250 and 38% bf. I am now at 190 and 23% bf. I know I have gained muscle and lost fat. It has been a very slow process and I was just looking for some pointers on maybe speeding the process up. Just trying to recomp the body. I think I'll just stick to what I'm doing and tweek the diet. Not looking to be massive just be much better than I was.

Well, your figures are out of whack mate. If you dropped from 250lbs at 38% to 190 at 23 % then you lost around 40lbs max of fat. Regardless, it's almost impossible to get a good bodyfat reading without dexa scan so the %'s quoted can be taken with a pinch of salt I think.

You have done amazingly well to lose 60lbs so far, well done. However, recouping is a long and laborious challenge. It can be done more easily if you are new to training or new to gear. Even experienced aas using bodybuilders will struggle to successfully carry out a good recomp in a short period of time.

My advice would be to drop a little lower in bodyfat than you would ideally like and then slooooooooow bulk from there.

Feel free to post a photo and detail the macro's for your diet and the results you have been getting and how long you have been eating like that.

[Seamac]

Well, your figures are out of whack mate. If you dropped from 250lbs at 38% to 190 at 23 % then you lost around 40lbs max of fat. Regardless, it's almost impossible to get a good bodyfat reading without dexa scan so the %'s quoted can be taken with a pinch of salt I think.

You have done amazingly well to lose 60lbs so far, well done. However, recouping is a long and laborious challenge. It can be done more easily if you are new to training or new to gear. Even experienced aas using bodybuilders will struggle to successfully carry out a good recomp in a short period of time.

My advice would be to drop a little lower in bodyfat than you would ideally like and then slooooooooow bulk from there.

Feel free to post a photo and detail the macro's for your diet and the results you have been getting and how long you have been eating like that.

I agree with the BF %. Just had someone use one of the pinch devices. No photos from before. Just a very large midsection. As far as diet I have been doing 40/40/20. Six small meals a day. Most of what I have learned had been from the diet and nutrition pages on this site. Also trying "Austinites Fat Loss Protocol". I guess I just need to decide which direction I'm going to go. Thanks for the advice.

[Back In Black]

I agree with the BF %. Just had someone use one of the pinch devices. No photos from before. Just a very large midsection. As far as diet I have been doing 40/40/20. Six small meals a day. Most of what I have learned had been from the diet and nutrition pages on this site. Also trying "Austinites Fat Loss Protocol". I guess I just need to decide which direction I'm going to go. Thanks for the advice.

Calipers s aren't a great way of measuring bodyfat, particularly at above 15%.

Do you know what your macro's are? % split means nothing.

[MToption2]

Cut & Bulk fast or slow. Either way works. What's the argument here?

Of course you can't build muscle in a deficit if you're already past the initial "noob" beginner phase.

Frank Yang method:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWFvQ9y1NOk&t=343s

His videos are refreshing

[Seamac]

Calipers s aren't a great way of measuring bodyfat, particularly at above 15%.

Do you know what your macro's are? % split means nothing.

It has changed since original post but here is the whole thing. May want to check my math.

3:00am- protein shake and banana. 100 c prot. 120 c carb 13.5 fat
5:30am- whole egg, 4 egg whites spinach and 1/2 cup oats.
160 c prot 148 c carb 94 c fat
8:30 am protein shake and banana. 100 c prot. 120 c carb 13.5 fat
11:30am chicken breast, brown rice and brocolli. 138 c prot. 120 c carb. 9 cal fat
3:00pm protein shake and yogurt. 156 c prot. 72 c carbs 13.5 fat
6:00pm chicken breast and broccoli 144 c prot 56 c carb 0 fat
9:00pm chicken breast and broccoli 144 c prot 56 carb 0 fat

Tbsp flax seed oil 117 fat
Tbsp olive oil for cooking 117 fat

Protein 942 c
Carbs 692 c
Fat. 377.5 c

If numbers are right it needs some tweaking to get to 40/40/20

800 c prot
800 c carb
400 c fat

Didn't count macros at all until recently. Mostly just tried to eat clean and made sure I had protein and carbs every meal. Looking forward to digging into and tweaking this.