Keto Diet and fat

Hey guys I was just wondering If i should go out of my way to eat fats during the week or just stick with the usual chicken, tuna, salads and light/ow carb dressings. I see you guys add cheese, pepperoni, sausage... should I go out of my way to add fats?? My usual meal are eggwhites, protein shake, tuna over a salad, chicken breest, ground turkey.
Also Is it ok to just carb load sunday morning untill sunday night just eat all the carbs you want?? Is there a science to it or just go nuts with bagels, cerea, pizza( I do know keep the fat down)

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Originally Posted by Machdiesel

Hey guys I was just wondering If i should go out of my way to eat fats during the week or just stick with the usual chicken, tuna, salads and light/ow carb dressings. I see you guys add cheese, pepperoni, sausage... should I go out of my way to add fats?? My usual meal are eggwhites, protein shake, tuna over a salad, chicken breest, ground turkey.
Also Is it ok to just carb load sunday morning untill sunday night just eat all the carbs you want?? Is there a science to it or just go nuts with bagels, cerea, pizza( I do know keep the fat down)

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1 - plenty of low-sodium, low-saturated fat, low-carb fat sources out there. Avocados/Almonds/flax oil > pepperoini/cheese/pork rinds. No need to eat nasty food. But yes, you do need to go out of your way to consume 60-70% fat or the diet simply won't be as effective and you'll be lethargic. Understand that you will be hungry and that's a good thing. Eating at a deficit, while consuming that much fat = a lot less food, considering fat is 9cals/g. To kill 2 birds with 1 stone, eat less tuna and more salmon. Less egg whites and more eggs. Less chicken breast, more thighs. Less ground turkey, more 85/15 beef.

2- No, you won't even lose weight if you use your carb-up as an excuse to eat pizza. Calories are still calories and foods like pizza that are high in carbs AND fat will result in you eating way above your tdee and gaining more than water weight. Think about it, if you're eating 500g of carbs, that's 2000 calories right there. Add in 200g of protein and you're at your TDEE - no room for fat. You should be eating some high GI, low-fat carbs early in the day (think bagels, baguette, puffed rice, etc.) and then low GI, low-fat carbs later in the day (think lentils, beans, oats, etc.) Top's CKD thread has a much more in-depth look at how you should handle the carb-up based on one author's approach but I'm just giving you the basics.

WOW great post man, that literally answered all the questions I had. So in short I shoule be consuming the same amount of cals 7 days a week, just re aarange it so on sunday its mosty carbs/pro and minimal fat. I shouldnt go nuts on sunday and consume massive amounts of cals. During the week add in some cheese, pepperoni, and fattier meats/poutry to make up for no carbs. On sunday eat higher GI carbs in the moning(bagels,waffles,breads, cereal), then later on switch over to the brown rice,whole grain pasta and stuff. My one last question would be where does sugar come in, I mean like the REAL sugary stuff like cookies, sweets, fruit loops, donuts. Are these ok but just early day?

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Originally Posted by Machdiesel

My one last question would be where does sugar come in, I mean like the REAL sugary stuff like cookies, sweets, fruit loops, donuts. Are these ok but just early day?

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Ask Top but I'd say no. As far as I understand, sugar in it's simplest form can replenish liver glycogen and prevent you from quickly reentering ketosis. I know fruit sugar is forbidden but I think you can get away with sucrose. Regardless, if you have the willpower, you'll see better results without empty calories.

Also, you should eat under TDEE on keto days. At or slightly over on refeed.

I just started a keto diet Monday, so I can only share my current plan with you, which i'm sure will be modified and refined 100 times over before i'm satisfied with it.

I am currently one of those people eating $hit foods like bacon, pepperoni, sausage, cheese, etc. I think Damien is definitely on to something in terms of still being able to eat cleanly AND get the (healthy) fats to a high percentage. My problem with that right now is balancing the almost NO carb policy with the healthier fats; most everything with healthy fat (other than Salmon) contains too many carbs - avacado, nuts, PB, etc. Damien was able to do it, so i'm not saying it cannot be done, I just need to recalculate my diet.

As for the carb up days, I agree with Damien on this point as well. However I think you should definitely eat above TDEE, maybe by only 200-300 calories - but you do not want to keep your body at the same caloric level constantly or it will adjust. Also, I don't think you want to call it 'going crazy' on carbs, but I believe if you want to have ONE slice of pizza, or ONE piece of chocolate, that's ok. But the carb up/refeed days are not a license to throw your diet out the window and go nuts. Currently, my carb up days consist of:

bagels, Kashi cereal (LOVE THIS), oats, pasta, brown rice, breads, etc. I am unfortunately going to have to throw in a few high carb/sugar drinks to satisfy my alcohol-tooth, but again I don't think this is going to kill me.

Alternatively, you might consider doing a 24 hour carb up instead of a 48 in which case I think it's ok to be a bit more lenient with what you eat - but STILL you cannot go crazy with garbage food - candy, pizza, chinese, etc. - basically you still need to stay away from the high fat/high carb combo, it's lethal.

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Originally Posted by Machdiesel

Hey guys I was just wondering If i should go out of my way to eat fats during the week or just stick with the usual chicken, tuna, salads and light/ow carb dressings. I see you guys add cheese, pepperoni, sausage... should I go out of my way to add fats?? My usual meal are eggwhites, protein shake, tuna over a salad, chicken breest, ground turkey.
Also Is it ok to just carb load sunday morning untill sunday night just eat all the carbs you want?? Is there a science to it or just go nuts with bagels, cerea, pizza( I do know keep the fat down)

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If you're not "going out of your way" to get your healthy fats in, then it's just not a keto diet.

And Damien is right, it simply won't be as effective, and you'll be very lethargic.

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Originally Posted by gbrice75

I just started a keto diet Monday, so I can only share my current plan with you, which i'm sure will be modified and refined 100 times over before i'm satisfied with it.

I am currently one of those people eating $hit foods like bacon, pepperoni, sausage, cheese, etc. I think Damien is definitely on to something in terms of still being able to eat cleanly AND get the (healthy) fats to a high percentage. My problem with that right now is balancing the almost NO carb policy with the healthier fats; most everything with healthy fat (other than Salmon) contains too many carbs - avacado, nuts, PB, etc. Damien was able to do it, so i'm not saying it cannot be done, I just need to recalculate my diet.

As for the carb up days, I agree with Damien on this point as well. However I think you should definitely eat above TDEE, maybe by only 200-300 calories - but you do not want to keep your body at the same caloric level constantly or it will adjust. Also, I don't think you want to call it 'going crazy' on carbs, but I believe if you want to have ONE slice of pizza, or ONE piece of chocolate, that's ok. But the carb up/refeed days are not a license to throw your diet out the window and go nuts. Currently, my carb up days consist of:

bagels, Kashi cereal (LOVE THIS), oats, pasta, brown rice, breads, etc. I am unfortunately going to have to throw in a few high carb/sugar drinks to satisfy my alcohol-tooth, but again I don't think this is going to kill me.

Alternatively, you might consider doing a 24 hour carb up instead of a 48 in which case I think it's ok to be a bit more lenient with what you eat - but STILL you cannot go crazy with garbage food - candy, pizza, chinese, etc. - basically you still need to stay away from the high fat/high carb combo, it's lethal.

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You guys are over thinking this whole thing, just use oils:

Almond oil, walnut oil, EVOO, fish oil, avocado oil, fish oil, etc etc.

Easy to measure, you can't over eat on them (like natty PB), and no carbs.

As far as the refeeds, I don't count cals on refeeds.

You'll drive yourself nuts.

just eat your protein first, then eat carbs till your satisfied.

Simple.

Stop over analyzing and enjoy life and fat loss guys, lol.

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Originally Posted by D7M

You guys are over thinking this whole thing, just use oils:

Almond oil, walnut oil, EVOO, fish oil, avocado oil, fish oil, etc etc.

Easy to measure, you can't over eat on them (like natty PB), and no carbs.

As far as the refeeds, I don't count cals on refeeds.

You'll drive yourself nuts.

just eat your protein first, then eat carbs till your satisfied.

Simple.

Stop over analyzing and enjoy life and fat loss guys, lol.

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LoL - DM7 - posts like this always make me feel better, because i'm constantly in a 'what if' semi-panic! I think the problem is you read a book like BodyOpus where the program is EXTREMELY regimented (calculating carb amounts and types per meal during carb up, waking up every 2 hours to eat, etc) causes people like me to worry about every little thing.

Alternatively, a book like 'The Anabolic Diet' is PERFECT for me - basically just says eat protein/fat all week, keep carbs below 30g per day, and eat whatever you want (high carb) on weekends. I suppose this can be called the 'lazy man's' keto diet, and i'm SURE results will not be as good as somebody who strictly follows something like BodyOpus. But in the end, if i'm losing fat and maintaining (or dare I say adding) lean muscle, i'm happy!

I'd like to check out Palumbo's book next to see another take on it; apparantly he promotes clean eating much more than the others.

Yah books are good,

But nothing will replace real life trial and error.

That's half the fun of the journey anyway--seeing what you respond to....

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Originally Posted by D7M

Yah books are good,

But nothing will replace real life trial and error.

That's half the fun of the journey anyway--seeing what you respond to....

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Would have been more fun if I had started at 17 and not a half-dead 34 year old... :icon_roll

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Originally Posted by d7m

you guys are over thinking this whole thing, just use oils:

Almond oil, walnut oil, evoo, fish oil, avocado oil, fish oil, etc etc.

Easy to measure, you can't over eat on them (like natty pb), and no carbs.

As far as the refeeds, i don't count cals on refeeds.

You'll drive yourself nuts.

Just eat your protein first, then eat carbs till your satisfied.

Simple.

Stop over analyzing and enjoy life and fat loss guys, lol.

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nail on the head.

Thanks for all your help guys. Most of my meals are tuna or grilled chicken over a salad so I just added some chunks of cheese on them to get some fat. Taste good and it gets the job done. Also Ill take about a tablespoon or 2 of natty peanut butter througout the day. My diet is pretty basic, 2 shakes a day, 2 meals of chicken or tuna over salad, and last meal turkey loaf. comes out to 200g protein. Cant wait for my refeed. Im just gonna do all day/night sunday