How We Get Fat - Lyle McDonald

[Swifto]

How We Get Fat
by Lyle McDonald


Ok, this is going to be a bit ranty but, trust me, I write better when I’m upset. If the Internet has proven anything to me over the years it’s this: basic literacy is sorely lacking. Because the comments in response to the article I wrote on Tuesday, Excess Protein and Fat Storage – Q&A indicate that not only can people not understand rather basic concepts, they insist on reading things into what I am saying that I have never said. I could rant about making uncritical inferences but I’ll spare everyone that.

In that piece I answered a very specific question with a very specific answer. I made no implications of anything beyond the exact answer I gave to that specific question. And somehow people managed to read all kinds of asinine stuff into it, things that I never said or even began to imply. It’d amaze me if I hadn’t seen people do this consistently over the past 15 years.

The basic confusion in that article was that folks interpreted my saying that carbs and protein can’t be converted to fat as ‘Lyle says you can’t get fat overeating carbs and protein’. Which I absolutely didn’t say. But people inferred, incorrectly. Basically, what I said and what they heard were not the same thing.

I’d note before continuing that if folks had taken 30 seconds to click on and read the article I linked Nutrient Intake, Oxidation and Storage, they would have realized the mistake they were making as I specifically said that overeating carbs can still make you fat, just not through direct conversion (rather through indirect mechanisms). But in addition to a lack of basic literacy, laziness seems to be endemic on the net as well. And for not taking a couple of minutes to read the piece that I specifically linked to, a bunch of people got confused and then aggro.

I’d also note that if folks reading the protein piece had taken time to read the, I dunno, 200+ other articles on the site, they’d realize that I am making no such claim that you can eat all the carbs you want (or that lowcarb diets are superior, or whatever nonsensical conclusions they reached). Or that one specific dietary approach (e.g. lowcarbs) is automatically superior to another.


But rather than do that, they took a single article, addressing a single specific question, and ran with it. That’s not a good thing to do, you can’t take a single answer to a single specific question out of context and take that to represent what I believe. Well you can but it’s stupid to do so. That’s what a lot of people did.

But since they couldn’t do any of that, couldn’t take the time to even read the single linked article much less the rest of what’s on the site, rather than writing about something more interesting today, I’m going to clear it up once and for all. And I still expect someone to read this completely wrong and go around the Internet mis-representing what I’m saying. I’m used to it at this point.



How We Get Fat Part 1: Energy Intake Exceeds Energy Output
At a fundamental level, fat storage occurs when caloric intake exceeds caloric output, a topic I discussed in some detail in The Energy Balance Equation. Now, I know that a lot of people claim that basic thermodynamics don’t hold for humans. Simply, they are wrong. Invariably, the studies used to support this position are based on a faulty data set: to whit, they are drawing poor conclusions about what people SAY that they are eating.

For example, one popular book bases one of its many incorrect theses on a 1980 report suggesting that the obese ate the same number of calories as the lean. Ergo, obesity was caused by something else. The problem is this, the data set is wrong. A fact we’ve known for nearly 30 years but that the author was somehow unable to become aware of in his ‘5 years of dedicated research’.

Study after study after study over the past 30 years shows that the obese systematically under-report their food intake (by up to 30-50%) and over-report their activity (by about the same). So when they say they are only eating 1800 calories per day, they may be eating 2400-3600 calories per day. And their activity isn’t nearly what they think.

And when you put those same folks in controlled metabolic ward conditions and control their food intake and/or activity output…voila, the energy balance equation holds. It’s only when you believe the (incorrect) self-reported data that it doesn’t.

And make no mistake I am NOT saying that the obese are lying about their intake, not consciously anyhow. Most people simply suck at knowing how much they are actually eating. Leave them to self-report it and they almost always screw it up. If you’re mistaken enough to believe the self-reported values, you reach even more screwed up conclusions about things.

In that vein, I have found that the chronically underweight “I can’t gain weight no matter what I do” are invariably vastly over-estimating what they are eating. That is, they are eating far less than they think. Other studies show that ‘health conscious people’ tend to under-report their true ‘junk food’ and dietary fat intake; to appear more healthy they conveniently forget or leave out that trip to the burger joint.

Put differently, this isn’t something that only occurs in the obese (so spare me accusations of ‘hating the obese’ or some nonsense). Am I clear or are people going to misinterpret me some more in the comments and claim I said that fat people lie about their food intake? Because I’m not saying anything of the sort. Make no mistake, I’m sure some do lie about it; most are just clueless about how much they are actually eating.

Now let me make it clear that there is obviously a lot more going on here, hormones and all manners of other stuff impact on the energy balance equation. For example, chronically elevated cortisol does a lot of nasty things in terms of reducing metabolic rate (reducing the energy out side of the equation) as well as negatively impacting on calorie partitioning (where calories go when you eat them as discussed in Calorie Partitioning Part 1 and Part 2). But for the most part, a lot of that is outside of our control. It’s relevant but you can’t do much with most of it. So I’ll focus on calories.



How We Get Fat Part 2: Nutrient Intake, Oxidation and Storage Part Deux
The primary storage of fat in the body is in fat cells, duh. Most of that is found in what is called subcutaneous fat, which is found under the skin. There is also fat stored around the gut area called visceral fat (this surrounds the organs). Fat can also be stored in ‘bad’ places like the liver and pancreas under certain conditions; this is called ectopic fat storage.

I’m going to focus here on subcutaneous fat. There, whether or not fat is stored or removed comes down to a concept called fat balance, which I discuss in some detail in The Ultimate Diet 2.0. You can think of fat balance as the fat specific equivalent of energy balance. That is

Net Change in Fat Stores = Fat Stored – Fat Burned

I’d note that the same nutrient balance holds for protein, carbohydrates and alcohol (which I’m not going to talk about today). That is, the net effect on bodily stores, whether protein or carbohydrate stores in the body increases, decreases or stays the same comes down to the balance of protein/carb stored vs. protein or carbs/burned.

So at a fundamental level, fat gain occurs when fat storage exceeds fat burning (technically oxidation). And fat loss occurs when fat oxidation exceeds fat storage. I’d note that both processes take place in some amounts throughout the day, controlled by a host of processes I’m not going to talk about. Just recognize that what happens over time in terms of your fat stores comes down to the relationship between those two processes: fat storage – fat oxidation.

So what determines fat oxidation and fat storage rates?



How We Get Fat Part 3: Back to Nutrient Intake, Oxidation and Storage
Now, here’s where people got confused by Excess Protein Intake and Fat Storage – Q&A, and where they would have been unconfused by clicking the linked article on Nutrient Intake, Oxidation and Storage. In fact, I’d suggest you go read it right now, it’s not that long and since I’m not going to retype all of it here (that’s why I wrote it the first time), it’d be a good idea. I’ll wait.

However, since I know most of you will have just ignored my suggestion to actually read that piece, I’m going to summarize a few points from it (as well as from the Q&A):

Carbs are rarely converted to fat and stored as such
When you eat more carbs you burn more carbs and less fat; eat less carbs and you burn less carbs and more fat
Protein is basically never going to be converted to fat and stored as such
When you eat more protein, you burn more protein (and by extension, less carbs and less fat); eat less protein and you burn less protein (and by extension, more carbs and more fat)
Ingested dietary fat is primarily stored, eating more of it doesn’t impact on fat oxidation to a significant degree


Let’s work through this backwards. When you eat dietary fat, it’s primary fate is storage as its intake has very little impact on fat oxidation (and don’t ask me a bunch of questions about “But people say you have to eat fat to burn fat?” in the comments. That idea is fundamentally wrong but would take an entire article to address). It also doesn’t impact greatly on the oxidation of the protein or carbohydrates.

Carbohydrates are rarely converted to fat (a process called de novo lipogenesis) under normal dietary conditions. There are exceptions when this occurs. One is with massive chronic overfeeding of carbs. I’m talking 700-900 grams of carbs per day for multiple days. Under those conditions, carbs max out glycogen stores, are in excess of total daily energy requirements and you see the conversion of carbohydrate to fat for storage. But this is not a normal dietary situation for most people.

A few very stupid studies have shown that glucose INFUSION at levels of 1.5 total daily energy expenditure can cause DNL to occur but this is equally non-physiological. There is also some evidence that DNL may be increased in individuals with hyperinsulinemia (often secondary to obesity). There’s one final exception that I’ll use to finish this piece.

But when you eat more carbs, you burn more carbs and burn less fat. And that’s why even if carbs aren’t directly converted to fat and stored as such, excess carbs can STILL MAKE YOU FAT. Basically, by inhibiting fat oxidation, excess carbs cause you to store all the fat you’re eating without burning any of it off. Did you get that? Let me repeat it again.

Carbs don’t make you fat via direct conversion and storage to fat; but excess carbs can still make you fat by blunting out the normal daily fat oxidation so that all of the fat you’re eating is stored. Which is why a 500 cal surplus of fat and a 500 cal surplus of carbs can both make you fat; they just do it for different reasons through different mechanisms. The 500 calories of excess fat is simply stored; the excess 500 calories of carbs ensure that all the fat you’re eating is stored because carb oxidation goes up and fat oxidation goes down. Got it? If not, re-read this paragraph until it sinks in.

Oh yeah, the same holds for protein. Protein isn’t going to be converted to and stored as fat. But eat excess protein and the body will burn more protein for energy (and less carbs and fat). Which means that the other nutrients have to get stored. Which means that excess protein can still make you fat, just not by direct conversion. Rather, it does it by ensuring that the fat you’re eating gets stored.

Of course protein also has the highest thermic effect, more of the incoming calories are burned off. So excess protein tends to have the least odds of making you fat under any conditions; but excess protein can make you fat. Just not by direct conversion to fat; rather it’s indirectly by decreasing the oxidation of other nutrients.

Ok, is the above clear enough? Because I can’t really explain it any simpler but will try one last time using bullet points and an example. Let’s assume someone is eating at exactly maintenance calories. Neither gaining nor losing fat. Here’s what happens with excess calories. Assume that all three conditions represent identical increases in caloric intake, just from each of the different macros. Here’s what happens mechanistically and why all three still make you fat:

Excess dietary fat is directly stored as fat
Excess dietary carbs increases carb oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat
Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat


Got it? All three situations make you fat, just through different mechanisms. Fat is directly stored and carbs and protein cause you to store the fat you’re eating by decreasing fat oxidation.

And I’d note again, since someone will invariably misread this that that doesn’t mean that a low-carb and/or low-protein diet is therefore superior for fat loss. I’m not saying that and don’t think that I am. Because in such a situation, while you may be burning more fat, you’re also eating more dietary fat. So net fat balance can be unchanged despite the dicking around with macronutrient content. It still comes down to the deficit.



The Obvious Question: Why Not Just Eat Zero Dietary Fat?
And now I’ll answer the question that I know every person who has read (and hopefully understood) the above is asking: so if carbs and protein are rarely converted to and stored as fat, and make you fat by decreasing fat oxidation and causing all ingested dietary fat to get stored as fat, can’t I eat as much as I want of protein and carbs so long as my dietary fat intake is zero?

And the asnswer is still no. Remember how I teased you above with one other exception, when carbs are converted to fat for storage? That exception is when dietary fat is below about 10% of total daily calories. Under that condition, the body ramps up de novo lipogenesis. So you still get fat.

Because the body is usually smarter than we are. Under conditions where dietary fat intake is ‘adequate’ (meaning 10% of total calories or more), the primary fate of that fat is storage and protein and carbs are used for other things. And when dietary fat is too low, the body will start converting ingested carbs (and probably protein, though it would still be rare) to fat for storage.

Oh yeah, the other question you’re going to ask in the comments “What about alcohol?” That’s going to require a full article so be patient. I know that’s another thing lacking on the Internet but so be it.

And I really hope that clears things up. If it doesn’t, read this piece and the linked articles until it is.

[the big 1]

superb article, i love mcdonalds research...

thanks swifto...

[Swifto]

superb article, i love mcdonalds research...

thanks swifto...

Every article is loaded with research and he's one of the nutritionist that hasnt sold out to some bullshit supplement company.

He's ALWAYS on point.

[Reed]

Love it

[the big 1]

Every article is loaded with research and he's one of the nutritionist that hasnt sold out to some bullshit supplement company.

He's ALWAYS on point.

I agree, im using his ultimate diet 2.0 principles at the moment, everything he writes is backed up with scientific research...

That said, his routines and theories are far from normal, for example with his UD 2.0 program im doing HIT training, volume training and 5x5 training all in one week !

some would say the variation in muscle stimulus is good and stops plateu, whilst others would say 3 different approaches to training in one week would burn anyone out...

still, im going to stick to his advice word for word and see how lean i can get which is what the diet is laid out to do...

[Bigdog99]

good stuff. thanks for posting. Does he have a website?

[the big 1]

good stuff. thanks for posting. Does he have a website?

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20

[n00bs]

I dont believe it please post references...

No just kidding good read!

Thanks for the article!

[Swifto]

I agree, im using his ultimate diet 2.0 principles at the moment, everything he writes is backed up with scientific research...

That said, his routines and theories are far from normal, for example with his UD 2.0 program im doing HIT training, volume training and 5x5 training all in one week !

some would say the variation in muscle stimulus is good and stops plateu, whilst others would say 3 different approaches to training in one week would burn anyone out...

still, im going to stick to his advice word for word and see how lean i can get which is what the diet is laid out to do...

I have never seen him give training advice, but that apporach is intresting indeed.

Changing stimulus does lead to hypertophy and certainly keeps the body guessing.

I prefer alternating between HIT and peroidization over 5-6 week stages.

[the big 1]

I have never seen him give training advice, but that apporach is intresting indeed.

Changing stimulus does lead to hypertophy and certainly keeps the body guessing.

I prefer alternating between HIT and peroidization over 5-6 week stages.

you right he doesn't give training advice, but he does however write articles about certain training routines, like 5x5 etc...

i also like switching things up as i love both HIT and high volume routines, my current routine is based 100% on mcdonalds UD 2.0...heres my log

BIG 1's Carb cycling diet log (weekly pics)

what do you think ? worth the effort ?

im planning to get to single digit bf % with this diet plan, and then move on to a bulk phase using 'basic bodybuilding pendulum training'. Pendulum training seems perfect for me, each week brings a new training style so you dont get bord, its like the perfect routine IMO !!!

how does periodization training look ?

[Swifto]

you right he doesn't give training advice, but he does however write articles about certain training routines, like 5x5 etc...

i also like switching things up as i love both HIT and high volume routines, my current routine is based 100% on mcdonalds UD 2.0...heres my log

BIG 1's Carb cycling diet log (weekly pics)

what do you think ? worth the effort ?

im planning to get to single digit bf % with this diet plan, and then move on to a bulk phase using 'basic bodybuilding pendulum training'. Pendulum training seems perfect for me, each week brings a new training style so you dont get bord, its like the perfect routine IMO !!!

how does periodization training look ?

Periodization is simply adding volume and playing with sets increasing and decreasing over time.

Ronnie's sling shot training routine is a good read, but I like to add more volume and incorperate HIT during low volume stages. Then use HIT as a routine in itself for 4-5 weeks.

[yannick35]

I have all is books, Lyle is amazing, and straight forward too.

[baseline_9]

superb article, i love mcdonalds research...

thanks swifto...

Agreed

I think all can be answerd by reading his articles

From now on im linking people to his articles as much as possible.

Just read 71 of his articles on my ipod last week while i was on holiday on the beach LOL

He is brilliant IMO, I like the way he never 'Parrots' and always refers to a scientific case study or good research

[dangerous dan]

Good thread swift, interesting stuff

[gbrice75]

Great read Swifto, thanks for posting!

Assuming this is all on point, it kind of send me into a tailspin. I've considerably lowered my carb intake (under 100g/day) and upped my fat intake (upwards of 130g/day) in an effort to burn fat. This may not be the right approach - at the end of the day it all comes down to a caloric deficit.

[yannick35]

Great read Swifto, thanks for posting!

Assuming this is all on point, it kind of send me into a tailspin. I've considerably lowered my carb intake (under 100g/day) and upped my fat intake (upwards of 130g/day) in an effort to burn fat. This may not be the right approach - at the end of the day it all comes down to a caloric deficit.

It is all about caloric deficit, there are lots of myths right now that are being uncovered, about protein intake, frequency of meals, and a lot more.

I am reading tones of this, Eat Stop Eat, How much protein you really need are all based on scientific studies gathered by Brad Pilon, that really show must of what we have been told for years is all based on marketing.

Bodybuilders of the 40-50-60 did not have to rely on supplements to build there bodies because during that time they did not exist.

Vince Gironda another guru was way before is time, with is 8 X 8 program and eating only twice a day eggs and steak, he did that for 10 months and looked like a million dollar.

Right now i am reading a lot about IF, intermittent fasting, i used to believe that if i skipped breakfast i would have trouble getting true the day, if i did not have my PWO shake after my weight training i would limit my growth and more.

Well i have been doing IF for 2 months now, and lost went from 231 pounds to right now 204 pounds, i did cheat a bit with b-days and night out and restaurants, and still manage to take off the pounds, also weight train in a fasted state after 18-24 hours of not eating, and i felt great.

We are made to believe that we need to consume so much food to reach our goals, eat eat eat that's all there is, 6 times now 8 times is better.....

The future right now looks to be going toward the IF, combined with a low carb diet this is going to be the bomb.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I was about to get Lyle's book, but after reading the details it likens itself to a ketogenic diet. I know cutting carbs and replacing with fats works... But I hate how I feel on it. How do you lift weights with no muscle glycogen from stored carbs, anyhow? I thought glycogen stores were required for anaerobic activity. What if I just eat tuna, oatmeal then tuna, olive oil all day long like it was a religion...

[Swifto]

Go onto his site and read ALL of his articles, then read them all again, then one more time. Thats my plan in a few days time. I'm going to be busy! Then I'll buy ALL his books and read them again and again.

Done.

[Swifto]

I was about to get Lyle's book, but after reading the details it likens itself to a ketogenic diet. I know cutting carbs and replacing with fats works... But I hate how I feel on it. How do you lift weights with no muscle glycogen from stored carbs, anyhow? I thought glycogen stores were required for anaerobic activity. What if I just eat tuna, oatmeal then tuna, olive oil all day long like it was a religion...

Ketones are used for energy if liver glycogen stores are out and so are fats.

[stevey_6t9]

what about this hypothetical situation...

what if one was to eat zero CHO and zero fat and huge surplus amounts of protein.

if there was no intake of CHO or fat to be stored would you still get fat if your total ckals exceeded your maintainence?

[gbrice75]

Well i have been doing IF for 2 months now, and lost went from 231 pounds to right now 204 pounds, i did cheat a bit with b-days and night out and restaurants, and still manage to take off the pounds, also weight train in a fasted state after 18-24 hours of not eating, and i felt great.

I'm not surprised you were able to lose weight in doing that - but what was the composition of that lost weight? How much was bodyfat? How much was LBM? How is your strength holding up? In what way is your physique changing?

[yannick35]

I'm not surprised you were able to lose weight in doing that - but what was the composition of that lost weight? How much was bodyfat? How much was LBM? How is your strength holding up? In what way is your physique changing?

gbrice75 i understand your point, but i am not training like the common man because i am injured, in the back and hip. I am still under treatment so squatting and deadlifting i still do but with dumbells and i don't go as heavy has the big boys.

For me its all about removing pressure on joints and feeling better, at 5 feet 10 and 231 pounds my bf% was around 26%, right now at 204 i should be around 20% or so. I want to get smaller and really cut up, again its when you start losing weight that you realize how much you need to lose, but due to injury and many failed attempts at getting back in the gym, screwing up with diet i got fat as a blimp.

I am working out using the Adonis workout (Not selling the product so please don't think its a spam, DL a copy off the internet in PDF format)

I will review the program in another thread because i don't want to hijack Swifto.

Either way when you do a keto diet, low carb diet, you will shrink if you don't combine with regular weekly carb re feed.

Kind of sad that CKD got out of vogue because it was one amazing diet. Its great to see that some people still use it to get in the best shape of there lives.

I lost size but the muscle is still there, my arms went from 18 inches to 15, but they are more defined, i am also not using drugs, and quit using creatine for the time being. Main goal get the waste to shoulder ratio up and get back to 34 inch jeans, right now i am down into 38 from 42 when i was 231 pounds.

Still would lose more if i could get true the dreaded ketosis effect, and get on a serious high protein diet.

How much was bodyfat? right now i would need to get a cellular test i remember that when i was 208 my BF% was 22% so right now i might be at 20% and yes a lot more to go, reachable goal would be around 15% if possible 12%


How much was LBM? not going to lie, i am smaller but still got good shoulder size


How is your strength holding up? Doing the Adonis workout burn (there are 3 workouts to choose from) i am doing from 13-8 reps, going for forms with moderate weights, so i can honestly tell you that my strength is the same but then again i can no longer lift heavy weights due to injury.


In what way is your physique changing? of course i lost size everywhere, but to be honest at 38 years old its not as easy as when i was 18, i got a very long way to go, lose, shed and rebuild, but i am in no hurry so giving myself another 6 months.

Let me get back to you on all of this when its said and done and see how much i can transform my body this time around.

[yannick35]

BTW any diet aimed at losing bodyweight that fast really requires a lot of discipline to keep the fat off but still lots of changes can happen during that time, stomach will shrink, appetite will get under control, sugar cravings will go away.

My work buddy got on a high protein low carb diet with is girlfriend they lost a lot of weight, he is not a bodybuilder just your average joe, he plays soccer once a week and is a goalie.

Went from 226 to 183 in 3 months and he looks amazing. Now he really watches what he eats, practice portion control and he gain back like 2 pounds or so, he is now at 185.

Imagine if he would have gone onto a serious weight lifting program, the change would have been amazing, but still anyone can lose weight without exercise or minimal exercise.

[gbrice75]

Yannick, thanks for the detailed info. VERY TRUE, that you only realize how much you need to lose once you start losing. I was/am in a similar boat - I started back in Dec 08 at 255lbs (5'11) and very fat and out of shape. I got down to about 193 and was stuck there for some time. I embarked on a CKD diet and got down to 177 but felt weak, and looked like a twig - but I was probably at around 13% BF at the time.

Now i'm back up to 200lbs, but sitting at around 16%. Definitely LBM gains, but not without the bodyfat. I still haven't figured out the balance for my own body.

[Swifto]

what about this hypothetical situation...

what if one was to eat zero CHO and zero fat and huge surplus amounts of protein.

if there was no intake of CHO or fat to be stored would you still get fat if your total ckals exceeded your maintainence?

I thought you'de be the one to come up with the most pointless of questions.

You usually are.

Excess protein can also be excreted.

[yannick35]

Yannick, thanks for the detailed info. VERY TRUE, that you only realize how much you need to lose once you start losing. I was/am in a similar boat - I started back in Dec 08 at 255lbs (5'11) and very fat and out of shape. I got down to about 193 and was stuck there for some time. I embarked on a CKD diet and got down to 177 but felt weak, and looked like a twig - but I was probably at around 13% BF at the time.

Now i'm back up to 200lbs, but sitting at around 16%. Definitely LBM gains, but not without the bodyfat. I still haven't figured out the balance for my own body.

Wow what can i say amazing, you lost a lot of weight and sure you are feeling much better. Its really do find out what you want from all this, be bigger, more muscles, less fat.

But there is always something that you can't really get passed and that is genetics. I have met people that can deal very well with ketosis, quit amazing after 3 weeks there body had made the change from glycogen usage to ketones and they felt great.

But for me same as you, i was always weak, no pump and no energy, but the weight loss was very good.

For over a decade or more we have been programmed to eat more, if not eat more eat more often, for sure that marketing companies will never encourage fasting because during a fast you eat nothing, you drink water.

For a global understanding on fasting i recommend reading this book, the best part is that its FREE, yes totally free, its not has complete as Eat Stop Eat with all the scientific studies backing it but it really related to how much extra weight on your body can cause chaos. http://www.fast-5.com/

Has for Eat stop eat well let me summarize the book for you, in the end its all about fasting twice a week for 24h, and eating your basic calories each remaining days of the week. Brad says that there is no bad food choice as long as you don't over eat, 2 cookies is fine, the whole box is not, i remember Lyle Mcdonald saying the same thing in one of is books.

Still you will get better benefits from eating fresh fruits and veggies instead of candy LOL.

[stevey_6t9]

I thought you'de be the one to come up with the most pointless of questions.

You usually are.

Excess protein can also be excreted.

how is it pointless, it was a simple question. no need to be a dikhead about it.

[Swifto]

how is it pointless, it was a simple question. no need to be a dikhead about it.

First off, watch your mouth.

Second, in what circumstance are you going to eat protein and protein ONLY, without a single carb or source of fat?

Third, when are you going to eat "excess" protein and not a shred of fat or a single carb?

Fourth, when are you going to worry about getting fat eating too much protein and not carbs/fats?

Lastly, answering all those questions, do you still think its still "not pointless"?

Lyle addresses relevant points regarding excess protein, carbs and fats. He doesnt address or ask (like you do often) totally non-applicable questions then wonder about what happens "if".

But then again, by reading your custom title, I'm probably wrong... Right?

Ha.

[gbrice75]

Wow, at first I thought you guys were just 2 friends bantering. Clearly this isn't the case!

[marcus300]

how is it pointless, it was a simple question. no need to be a dikhead about it.

Now look what happens if you upset staff lol

[stevey_6t9]

First off, watch your mouth.

Second, in what circumstance are you going to eat protein and protein ONLY, without a single carb or source of fat?

Third, when are you going to eat "excess" protein and not a shred of fat or a single carb?

Fourth, when are you going to worry about getting fat eating too much protein and not carbs/fats?

Lastly, answering all those questions, do you still think its still "not pointless"?

Lyle addresses relevant points regarding excess protein, carbs and fats. He doesnt address or ask (like you do often) totally non-applicable questions then wonder about what happens "if".

But then again, by reading your custom title, I'm probably wrong... Right?

Ha.

to answer all the above, ive done diets for 6 weeks with zero carbs, 400g of protein and very very small amounts of concealed fat from my protein sources... that was the motive to my question, not to test your omnisciency before you jump to conclusion.

obviously you intelligence far exceeds my own and your getting upset answering this question so ill leave it be. I dont want to get banned arguing.

[stevey_6t9]

Now look what happens if you upset staff lol

Maybe next time we should all tell someone that his is usually the one with pointless questions and his question this time is no exception, how would you react?

i had a genuine question, there was nothing pointless about... i might not come from a nutritional degree background so i came on here to ask a simple question and i get back handed like this, then get dobbed on to admin and my avatar and title changed?

[MuscleScience]

I think the article would have been much better if there was citations for each of the points he makes.

[Swifto]

Maybe next time we should all tell someone that his is usually the one with pointless questions and his question this time is no exception, how would you react?

i had a genuine question, there was nothing pointless about... i might not come from a nutritional degree background so i came on here to ask a simple question and i get back handed like this, then get dobbed on to admin and my avatar and title changed?

If its pointles (which it was), its far from genuine.

And...

By the way, I have f*ck all in the way of "degree's", not a 6pence. Maybe you should read or research what I'm always doing rather than regurgitating nonsence and asking stupid questions like:

Why is my avatar and custom title changed?

Ha......

[stevey_6t9]

If its pointles (which it was), its far from genuine.

And...

By the way, I have f*ck all in the way of "degree's", not a 6pence. Maybe you should read or research what I'm always doing rather than regurgitating nonsence and asking stupid questions like:

Why is my avatar and custom title changed?

Ha......

because you obviously cried to admin about it, if you want to resolve something, be a man a hit me with a pm, ill be sure to resolve it with you, going behind my back and doing a pettish act like that sums it up for me. I thought you were better then that.

i guess its my turn

HA....

[NEVERSAYNEVER]

I am sorry to intrude but I have a question someone might be able/willing to answer. I had a LAP BAND (installed?) 4 years ago and went from 377 to 265 in the first 2.5 years and stuck there. My blood tests show everything is in acceptable ranges (no deficiencies of the endocrine system either) my diet is the same for the last 4 years(nutritionist implemented) and I just stay the same weight. I am 44 yrs old 6ft 30% BF and work from home, i fast walk 3 miles mon wed and fri without fail and have since the Band was put in. I want to take it up a notch so I bought a set of free weights and a bowflex X2 and a Chuck Norris "flex something" . I just feel old and tired and wrung out before and after my workouts (tue thrs and sunday 45 min each day) (workout set up by personal trainer who works me out on tuesdays) protein and vitamin concoctions don't seem to make a difference (its been 6 weeks). So much for the background now here is the question(s): I went on AR-R and bought Liquid Clen 60mL - Albut 120mL- T360mL - S4 60mL - Keto60mL and now I need a recomendation for dosage and combining. I apologize for the lengthy narrative but i thought the background would help. Thank you in advance, and again, I apologize for the intrusion.

[yannick35]

I am sorry to intrude but I have a question someone might be able/willing to answer. I had a LAP BAND (installed?) 4 years ago and went from 377 to 265 in the first 2.5 years and stuck there. My blood tests show everything is in acceptable ranges (no deficiencies of the endocrine system either) my diet is the same for the last 4 years(nutritionist implemented) and I just stay the same weight. I am 44 yrs old 6ft 30% BF and work from home, i fast walk 3 miles mon wed and fri without fail and have since the Band was put in. I want to take it up a notch so I bought a set of free weights and a bowflex X2 and a Chuck Norris "flex something" . I just feel old and tired and wrung out before and after my workouts (tue thrs and sunday 45 min each day) (workout set up by personal trainer who works me out on tuesdays) protein and vitamin concoctions don't seem to make a difference (its been 6 weeks). So much for the background now here is the question(s): I went on AR-R and bought Liquid Clen 60mL - Albut 120mL- T360mL - S4 60mL - Keto60mL and now I need a recomendation for dosage and combining. I apologize for the lengthy narrative but i thought the background would help. Thank you in advance, and again, I apologize for the intrusion.

Not sure clen is going to fix your problem, i used it and it really bang me out, i am 38 btw and used with T3 from AR-R . You should have done a bit more reseach on fat burners, i used OptiLean right now and its great, and less side effects then all that you bought.

Look into Intermitent fasting that could be good to cleanse your body, and start fresh. Also the Adonis Workout is amazing, i am injured in the back and cannot lift heavy weights, i am doing the burn workout to lose weight, i did not pay for the program you can download it from the internet in torrent, same as Eat Stop Eat from Brad Pilon. I would start from there. For the clen and other stuff check into the steroid forum they can help you out with all this.

[Swifto]

because you obviously cried to admin about it, if you want to resolve something, be a man a hit me with a pm, ill be sure to resolve it with you, going behind my back and doing a pettish act like that sums it up for me. I thought you were better then that.

i guess its my turn

HA....

I've had my fun.

Go and knock yourself out.

[Baseball_Player85]

Yannick35, How are you not lossing lean muscle while fasting 2 x a week? How is your metabolism not shutting down after fasting 2 24 hour periods? Is there studies done backing these diets? It sounds kinda extreme... I'm not knocking it, just skeptical is all.

To me it just makes sense that if you burn more calories than you intake you will lose weight. I am keeping a journal of my weight loss and I've lost 55 lbs. and I add up my deficit of calories each week and it's in the ballpark of 7,000 and 8,000 cals and low and behold I'm losing on ave. 2 lbs. a week. 3,500 cals per pound.

All I'm asking is have there been studies/research backing up this diet?

Thanks, Love to hear your feedback. You seem like a pretty smart guy.

[1stofaseries]

great read, thanks for laying it out...