1.5 grams per lb or .8

I work in a alcohol rehabilitation center. And we have a nutritionist come and speak to the clients once a month. We were talking and I was askin about a replacement for oatmeal in the morning as far as carb content. Then she asked how much protien I eat for breakfast I said 50 grams and she almost crapped herself. She said its .8 per lb to build muscle not 1.5 or 2 grams. And apparently the body can only use 20 grams per meal, the rest goes to fat and destroys your liver. She Went on to lecture me about it. I'm not versed enough in this area... But is she right? She goes against everything I read and researched.

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Originally Posted by Dadstrength

I work in a alcohol rehabilitation center. And we have a nutritionist come and speak to the clients once a month. We were talking and I was askin about a replacement for oatmeal in the morning as far as carb content. Then she asked how much protien I eat for breakfast I said 50 grams and she almost crapped herself. She said its .8 per lb to build muscle not 1.5 or 2 grams. And apparently the body can only use 20 grams per meal, the rest goes to fat and destroys your liver. She Went on to lecture me about it. I'm not versed enough in this area... But is she right? She goes against everything I read and researched.

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IMO, she's a book-smart type of person all educated up on healthy eating for average people. If she isn't experienced with body building nutrition, I would dismiss what she said. Bodybuilding lifestyle is anything but normal and if the pros are outlining how to eat based on their experience- who are we to question it?

My 2 cents...

Yea you right she is trying to give a balanced diet to alcoholics and drug addicts who don't even know what a healthy diet looks like. So I think your right. Just had to run it by the forum. Thanks bro.

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Originally Posted by Dadstrength

I work in a alcohol rehabilitation center. And we have a nutritionist come and speak to the clients once a month. We were talking and I was askin about a replacement for oatmeal in the morning as far as carb content. Then she asked how much protien I eat for breakfast I said 50 grams and she almost crapped herself. She said its .8 per lb to build muscle not 1.5 or 2 grams. And apparently the body can only use 20 grams per meal, the rest goes to fat and destroys your liver. She Went on to lecture me about it. I'm not versed enough in this area... But is she right? She goes against everything I read and researched.

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Lol go on a diet with .8g of protein per lb and then one with 2.5 grams and tell me if you notice any differences.....

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Originally Posted by Dadstrength

She said its .8 per lb to build muscle not 1.5 or 2 grams. And apparently the body can only use 20 grams per meal, the rest goes to fat and destroys your liver.

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Next time you see her, ask her for a single study that is definitive of this theory.

Let me save you some trouble: she won't be able to, because there is none.

Protein metabolism of the human body doesn't have definitive limits regarding how much protein liver can synthesize in one sitting. The very claim that there is a limit and the further claim that this is 20gr or 30gr per meal is an hypothesis without any actual scientific back up. Do you know what we call people who claim and yet without proof?: Charlatans.

....

Dude that's what I was thinking. I've always stuck to 1.5-2 grams. But always had to take breaks from exercising how I like because of personal issues or my kids being born or what not. So I come back and always do my research because things always change. So when she told me this I was like " hold the f*** up" things ain't changed that much. Has it? Lol she threw me for a loop. Thanks guys. Ima hit her up with some knowledge next time I see her. Lol

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Originally Posted by Dadstrength

I work in a alcohol rehabilitation center. And we have a nutritionist come and speak to the clients once a month. We were talking and I was askin about a replacement for oatmeal in the morning as far as carb content. Then she asked how much protien I eat for breakfast I said 50 grams and she almost crapped herself. She said its .8 per lb to build muscle not 1.5 or 2 grams. And apparently the body can only use 20 grams per meal, the rest goes to fat and destroys your liver. She Went on to lecture me about it. I'm not versed enough in this area... But is she right? She goes against everything I read and researched.

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*sigh*

Another 'nutritionist' (most are so out of touch, and even more are COMPLETELY ignorant with regard to bodybuilder's needs vs. the 'average joe') parroting some (incorrect) bs she learned back in a cert. class God knows how many years ago.

It's pretty much been addressed above, so I won't beat a dead horse - but she's an idiot. These are the same people who will reference the government RDA for protein, etc. What they don't tell you is that the RDA guideline is what's recommended for 'survival', not optimal functionality, let alone building lots of muscle.

I honestly think most people way overdo protein intake.

If you are eating clean good quality animal protein then for most 1gms to 1.25 gms per pound is plenty. Look at it this way thats 2 lbs of 90/10 ground beef or Tilapia for a 200lb guy. Myself I find that I grow very well on a 30/50/20 Protein Carb Fat diet.

As far as Grams of protien per meal, with whey I feel you can go a lot higher since the whey is absorbed so fast yet so poorly. I have no problem at all downing a 50gm shake after a workout and eating another 30 grams of animal based protein an hour later. However if I tried to do 50gm of animal protein PWO and then another 30 an hour later I would be sedated LOL.

So for me I try to get about 1.25 since I am 50+ and use a large whey shake PWO. If I were younger I would bump it to 1.5 but thats really about as far as I would go since I am not maintaining the pro bodybuilder lifestyle.

I agree that there are no hard and fast rules, everyone metabolizes foods differently and at different rates. However like with most everything a superheavy IFBB bodybuilder does, unless you are one its probably not the best approach for you. Keep in mind these guys entire life is centered around getting the body to shuttle protein to the muscles, for me to try to intake the same amount of protein would make about as much sense as trying to duplicate poundage on a workout.

I should not have said Most people on my intro, some would be more accurate.

Just to comment on the RDA, the other thing about the RDA is that its also about things like longevity.

I am well aware that I would likely live longer as a veggie based bean curd and sprout consuming beanpole of 6.1 and 155lbs but I would much rather make it to 70-85 and die from heart failure than live to 95-110 and die from one of my relatives finally losing it and pushing my senile rambling ass out into the cold....

FFM.... You are correct that most overdo protein by a long shot......

1.2-1.5g per lb of LBM is probably plenty based on the info that I have seen.....

But as you get older, you actually need to increase protein intake as you will become 'less sensitive' to the effects of it

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Originally Posted by Far from massive

I honestly think most people way overdo protein intake.

If you are eating clean good quality animal protein then for most 1gms to 1.25 gms per pound is plenty. Look at it this way thats 2 lbs of 90/10 ground beef or Tilapia for a 200lb guy. Myself I find that I grow very well on a 30/50/20 Protein Carb Fat diet.

As far as Grams of protien per meal, with whey I feel you can go a lot higher since the whey is absorbed so fast yet so poorly. I have no problem at all downing a 50gm shake after a workout and eating another 30 grams of animal based protein an hour later. However if I tried to do 50gm of animal protein PWO and then another 30 an hour later I would be sedated LOL.

So for me I try to get about 1.25 since I am 50+ and use a large whey shake PWO. If I were younger I would bump it to 1.5 but thats really about as far as I would go since I am not maintaining the pro bodybuilder lifestyle.

I agree that there are no hard and fast rules, everyone metabolizes foods differently and at different rates. However like with most everything a superheavy IFBB bodybuilder does, unless you are one its probably not the best approach for you. Keep in mind these guys entire life is centered around getting the body to shuttle protein to the muscles, for me to try to intake the same amount of protein would make about as much sense as trying to duplicate poundage on a workout.

I should not have said Most people on my intro, some would be more accurate.

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What does this mean m8?

Not sure I'm on the same page as you here...

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Originally Posted by Far from massive

I honestly think most people way overdo protein intake.

If you are eating clean good quality animal protein then for most 1gms to 1.25 gms per pound is plenty. Look at it this way thats 2 lbs of 90/10 ground beef or Tilapia for a 200lb guy. Myself I find that I grow very well on a 30/50/20 Protein Carb Fat diet.

As far as Grams of protien per meal, with whey I feel you can go a lot higher since the whey is absorbed so fast yet so poorly. I have no problem at all downing a 50gm shake after a workout and eating another 30 grams of animal based protein an hour later. However if I tried to do 50gm of animal protein PWO and then another 30 an hour later I would be sedated LOL.

So for me I try to get about 1.25 since I am 50+ and use a large whey shake PWO. If I were younger I would bump it to 1.5 but thats really about as far as I would go since I am not maintaining the pro bodybuilder lifestyle.

I agree that there are no hard and fast rules, everyone metabolizes foods differently and at different rates. However like with most everything a superheavy IFBB bodybuilder does, unless you are one its probably not the best approach for you. Keep in mind these guys entire life is centered around getting the body to shuttle protein to the muscles, for me to try to intake the same amount of protein would make about as much sense as trying to duplicate poundage on a workout.

I should not have said Most people on my intro, some would be more accurate.

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I bet I would loose 20lbs in weeks if I only ate 250g of protein a day..... I weigh just over 250 btw so 1g per lb would make me waste away no matter how high my carb and fat intake

Just out of curiosity how many grams of protein to lb do you guys recommend? I'm goin for size at the moment. And married with 2 children so a shredded midsection isn't a priority for me... Lol my wife is sh*t outta luck during this bulk lol

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Originally Posted by Far from massive

I honestly think most people way overdo protein intake.

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Agreed. I see lots of guys weighing all of 160lbs soaking wet with their protein intake in the neighborhood of 400g... complete overkill, and a waste. However, 0.8 - 1g /lb of bodyweight just isn't enough for people wanting to grow muscle, IMHO. Unless that person is 300lbs to begin with, in which case he should be focusing on reducing bodyfat, not building muscle.

I'm always within the range of 250-300g personally.

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Originally Posted by Dadstrength

Just out of curiosity how many grams of protein to lb do you guys recommend? I'm goin for size at the moment. And married with 2 children so a shredded midsection isn't a priority for me... Lol my wife is sh*t outta luck during this bulk lol

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I go with 1.5g/lb of LBM. Very important. I never factor total bodyweight as that's a mistake. Bodyfat is metabolically inactive (for our purposes) and therefore shouldn't be 'fed'. As for cutting vs bulking, I'd raise protein during a cut, if anything at all. When bulking, you are assisted by the protein/LBM sparing properties of higher fats and carbs.

Keep protein moderate, and raise carbs (and to a lesser extent, fats) if you're looking to add muscle.

Just eat clean and stop counting all that stuff. Too many other things to worry about in life!

Your nutritionist is on crack. 20 grams a sitting? I've been shitting out protein for years apparently, a standard chicken breast has around 50-60g protein, that being the case I should see half a chicken in the toilet every time I crap.

Anyways, I don't think people need as much protein as they think, I realized that over the years

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dadstrength

Just out of curiosity how many grams of protein to lb do you guys recommend? I'm goin for size at the moment. And married with 2 children so a shredded midsection isn't a priority for me... Lol my wife is sh*t outta luck during this bulk lol

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Basically as much as you can as long as your still able to eat enough clean carbs to accommodate.... With every additional 50g of protein per day I personally notice a difference... Now from 250-300g its huge and from 350-450g it will obviously be less of an improvement in muscle development but there will still be a difference..... I don't really think anyone could even eat the amount of protein it would take to be too much.... If so ill be dead soon bc I cram myself sick with meat at every meal even when cutting my hardest and have for years...

I'm still having my protein drink in the middle of the night. You can't stop me.

Lol funny cj 'your nutritionist is on crack' as I work in a rehab lol. Thanks fellas for all the feedback and advice.

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Originally Posted by baseline_9

But as you get older, you actually need to increase protein intake as you will become 'less sensitive' to the effects of it

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Very true.

''Protein pulse diets'' apparently also work for us as we get older, as studies suggest.

Age makes a big difference at the end of the day, that's for sure!

Dieting bodybuilders retain muscle with high protein foods

When you reduce your daily energy intake to 60 percent of what you burn, you don’t necessarily have to lose muscle mass. If you increase your protein intake your muscles will stay as they are, write sports scientists from the University of Birmingham in England in an article that will appear soon in Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise.

If we disregard the experience of tens of thousands of athletes for a moment, and just look at the scientific literature, we don’t know much at all about weight loss in power athletes on a high protein diet. Most of the studies that have been done have involved overweight people. They not only lose more kilograms on a protein-rich diet, they also retain more kilograms of muscle mass. Do power athletes also react as well to a protein-rich weight loss diet? This was the question to which the researchers sought an answer.

The Brits put 20 bodybuilders aged between 18 and 40 on a two-week long strict diet. The athletes consumed 40 percent less energy than they burned each day. Before going on the diet the athletes’ diet consisted of 15 percent protein. Per kilogram bodyweight they consumed about 1.6 g protein per day.

One group of bodybuilders just reduced what they ate. As a result, their protein intake fell to 1 g protein/kg/day. The other group not only ate less, but replaced fats and carbohydrates with protein. Their diet therefore consisted of 35 percent protein and their daily protein intake rose to 2.3 g/kg. The test subjects got their extra protein from shakes.

The figure below shows that the raised protein intake almost completely blocked muscle mass breakdown. The high-protein group only lost body fat.

Attachment 137677

The protein diet had no effect on the subjects’ 1RM on the bench presses. The test subjects on the protein diet managed a few more reps at 60 percent of the weight at which they could still just manage one more rep.

Attachment 137678

The researchers think that the amino acids in proteins have a direct anabolic effect on the muscles, and that this is the main way a protein-rich diet helps retain muscle tissue. What a protein-rich diet also does is maintain levels of anabolic hormones. In the bodybuilders who just reduced their intake, the level of free testosterone fell by 26 percent. In the bodybuilders who lost weight on a protein-diet, testosterone only decreased by 7 percent.

"The practical implication of these results is that the protein content of a hypoenergetic diet may play a crucial role", the Brits conclude. "Athletes aiming for body weight reduction while maintaining lean body mass may be advised to keep protein intake high."

Source: Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2009 Nov 13. [Epub ahead of print].

ergo-log

Wether bulking or cutting I eat 1.5g protein per lb/bw and .5g fat per lb/bw and adjust my carbs to suit my desired calories..simple and works for me.