Not lossing weight massive cycle low calorie

[Jonbana]

215 pounds supposedly 10%Bf I think I'm around 15%


Cycle

Tren 400mg/wk
Test 800mg/wk
T3 150mcg a day
Clen 150mg a day (2 weeks on 2 weeks off)
Aromasin 25mg a day


Diet

1500-1700 calories
16/8 fasting 4-5 meals
200g protein 30g fat 150g carbs

Week 7 of cycle not lossing weight started at 217pounds went to 230 probably water that. Went down to

I eat clean don't cheat if I do a weekly cheat I see zero body weight change I'm never hungry I can eat less but force food down

Wtf is going on



Training

Push / pull / leg twice a week 60 minutes 15minutes post cardio

I know most will say eat more but on cycle don't see how that would help when I'm trying to cut

[GearHeaded]

drop the test to 200-300mg per week and keep the tren at 400. absolutely zero reason to run high dosage of test with tren when your cutting (thats what you would do for a bulk with tren).

[Jonbana]

drop the test to 200-300mg per week and keep the tren at 400. absolutely zero reason to run high dosage of test with tren when your cutting (thats what you would do for a bulk with tren).

I was going to do that actually ok 400 test 400 tren a week easily done ..... what about calories would you increase them just finished clen yesterday did my first 2 weeks and now im off for 2 weeks

I have zero sides at all the doses too

[MuscleScience]

drop the test to 200-300mg per week and keep the tren at 400. absolutely zero reason to run high dosage of test with tren when your cutting (thats what you would do for a bulk with tren).

This!!!!

Your stats seem similar to mine. When I diet for a show it’s 16-20 weeks with the last 6-8 weeks being fairly intensive. If you lose a pound a week, that’s really good and where you want to be at. It’s spares muscle and helps keep your metabolism from bottoming out.

I eventually found that my body responded best to Keto diet when cutting or in maintance. You might try that and see how it goes. Essentially my diet was

The reverse Macros of yours, 200 ish grams of protein 100gr of fat and 30(or less) carbs.

Now that I think about it. Your fat intake is way to low in my opinion. You need a good amount of quality fat coming in when you are dieting down to keep your metabolism from wanting to go into starvation mode.

[solit1ea]

I feel like running everything you are running you need to UP your calories. I say bump up to about 2000 calories for a few weeks and see how everything goes. Your body is fighting itself due to the low calorie consumption. I fell victim to that years ago and learned since then. You'd be surprised how much of a difference that'll make. I know, I've had clients stare at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead when I told them this, but try it for 4 weeks and see. I would also look into your macro breakdown as well. In your case, with what you are running, I'd hit 50% from Proteins, 20% from fats (I'd never go below 20% personally) and 30% Carbs. So if you do that math you are looking at: 250g Protein, 45g Fats, 150g Carbs.

I say give it a shot... what do you have to lose? Weight?

[Jonbana]

This!!!!

Your stats seem similar to mine. When I diet for a show it’s 16-20 weeks with the last 6-8 weeks being fairly intensive. If you lose a pound a week, that’s really good and where you want to be at. It’s spares muscle and helps keep your metabolism from bottoming out.

I eventually found that my body responded best to Keto diet when cutting or in maintance. You might try that and see how it goes. Essentially my diet was

The reverse Macros of yours, 200 ish grams of protein 100gr of fat and 30(or less) carbs.

Now that I think about it. Your fat intake is way to low in my opinion. You need a good amount of quality fat coming in when you are dieting down to keep your metabolism from wanting to go into starvation mode.

I love keto I did keto for 3 years I tested blood everything but it's hard to get buy the fact keto doesn't work long term when I wanted it to work. So I'm.trying to stay away from keto. Yes I'm aware fats are low but is I raise fats I need to lower carbs and I'm.basicslly keto

[Jonbana]

I feel like running everything you are running you need to UP your calories. I say bump up to about 2000 calories for a few weeks and see how everything goes. Your body is fighting itself due to the low calorie consumption. I fell victim to that years ago and learned since then. You'd be surprised how much of a difference that'll make. I know, I've had clients stare at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead when I told them this, but try it for 4 weeks and see. I would also look into your macro breakdown as well. In your case, with what you are running, I'd hit 50% from Proteins, 20% from fats (I'd never go below 20% personally) and 30% Carbs. So if you do that math you are looking at: 250g Protein, 45g Fats, 150g Carbs.

I say give it a shot... what do you have to lose? Weight?

I'll try 1800-2k calories see what Happens like I mentioned to the other poster I was keto for 3 years I want to stay away cause it doesn't work long term for muscle growth

[Jonbana]

First meal 2 scoops whey to break my fast

Second meal is pre workout. 1cup oats 1scoop whey 1 egg

Pwo 50g whey 50g dextrose considering oats instead

Pwo meal. Chicken rice veggies 2 whole eggs


I would break my fast with eggs or chicken but using up protein powder to keep calories low

[GearHeaded]

Push / pull / leg twice a week 60 minutes 15minutes post cardio

I know most will say eat more but on cycle don't see how that would help when I'm trying to cut

when your taking a high amount of androgens your calorie demand is going to be much higher. 800mg of test with 400mg tren is 1.2 grams of highly androgenic compounds. you don't really need that much androgens for a cut . The only androgen I would use for a cut is Tren, then I throw in low androgenic compounds in there like VAR.

I think whats happened is you have stalled out by going too low calorie while simultaneously upping your calorie demand significantly with all the androgens. your body is in survival mode trying to hold onto all it can.

you could increase your calories (mainly carbs) and use those additional calories to fuel your work load (not be stored as body fat) and have better workouts.

speaking of workload , what does your training look like ? high volume, low volume, high intensity ? how many days per week? fasted cardio separate from weights ?

[Jonbana]

I'm going to up calories to 2,000 a day continue fasting 16/8 as well

I'm going to drop test to 400mg/wk

Right now training is probably high volume
p/p/l Rest p/p/l rest

usually
chest bench 4x10/8/6/5
Incline bench 3x10
decline 3x10
Fly 4x10
Over head press 3x10
Side raise 3x12
2 tri movements

im done in 45 minutes max , 15 minutes cardio PWO with abs

chest is 2-3 times a week I was once a week but upped it all


Fors carbs I do oats 1 hour pre nothing during 50g dextrose post than rice post meal

I was thinking carbs during but not sure , I feel like half way done I don't get a pump or a pump at all but that's from the t3 and clen I almost feel like its fake but shouldn't be from my source

[solit1ea]

when your taking a high amount of androgens your calorie demand is going to be much higher. 800mg of test with 400mg tren is 1.2 grams of highly androgenic compounds. you don't really need that much androgens for a cut . The only androgen I would use for a cut is Tren, then I throw in low androgenic compounds in there like VAR.

I think whats happened is you have stalled out by going too low calorie while simultaneously upping your calorie demand significantly with all the androgens. your body is in survival mode trying to hold onto all it can.

you could increase your calories (mainly carbs) and use those additional calories to fuel your work load (not be stored as body fat) and have better workouts.

speaking of workload , what does your training look like ? high volume, low volume, high intensity ? how many days per week? fasted cardio separate from weights ?

I agree with him. Slowly up your calories. The sample I gave you is NOT in anyway Keto, so I’m not sure why you mentioned that from my post. I’m personally not a Keto fan, although I know others who are. That’s fine. It works for them. But I think you are in a starvation mode with the body and it’s fighting you. Up the calories and see what happens

[Jonbana]

I agree with him. Slowly up your calories. The sample I gave you is NOT in anyway Keto, so I’m not sure why you mentioned that from my post. I’m personally not a Keto fan, although I know others who are. That’s fine. It works for them. But I think you are in a starvation mode with the body and it’s fighting you. Up the calories and see what happens

The guy before you mentioned keto sorry. Why are you against keto I fight everyday not going back keto, and yes I'm.esting 2000 calories a day at the moment the macros you gave me. One guy said. Ditch the 1 pre workout oats and take dextrose 30 minutes pre than again post than oats after the shake he said the oats pre is useless cause it won't be used

[GearHeaded]

The guy before you mentioned keto sorry. Why are you against keto I fight everyday not going back keto,

I've ran Keto a bunch of times . what I've learned from it is that AAS cycles are somewhat wasteful on Keto , Anabolics LOVE CARBS and make great use of them and partition them very well . thats one of the main things that steroids do, especially Tren . Its going to use carbs to super fill your muscles with glycogen (which will help with overall muscle growth being amino acids are shuttled in at the same time).
if you went Keto then you would not get this great benefit out of AAS use

[Jonbana]

I've ran Keto a bunch of times . what I've learned from it is that AAS cycles are somewhat wasteful on Keto , Anabolics LOVE CARBS and make great use of them and partition them very well . thats one of the main things that steroids do, especially Tren . Its going to use carbs to super fill your muscles with glycogen (which will help with overall muscle growth being amino acids are shuttled in at the same time).
if you went Keto then you would not get this great benefit out of AAS use

Thought son TKD long term not looking at AAS ?

[solit1ea]

I've ran Keto a bunch of times . what I've learned from it is that AAS cycles are somewhat wasteful on Keto , Anabolics LOVE CARBS and make great use of them and partition them very well . thats one of the main things that steroids do, especially Tren . Its going to use carbs to super fill your muscles with glycogen (which will help with overall muscle growth being amino acids are shuttled in at the same time).
if you went Keto then you would not get this great benefit out of AAS use

Damn dude, we must think alike lol!

I’m not against KETO, I don’t believe I said I was. It’s just not for me. My body, for what I do, functions better on lower fats, med/high carbs, med/high protein. I do a lot of HIIT training and so my body needs carbs. It’s like putting an Olympic Sprinter on a KETO diet. He won’t function as great (and maybe he will— depends on many factors).

I firmly believe in this: there is no one size fits all diet scheme that’ll help you shed weight. It depends on many factors: body type, exercise type, genetics, daily life, etc. Just find what works for you man. It took me many years to realize that and it’s finally paying off.

[GearHeaded]

Thought son TKD long term not looking at AAS ?

TKD is a great tool to use when insulin sensitivity goes to crap and needs fixed but you still want the glycogen stores and not have to deplete them. so basically you can improve insulin sensitivity without a full bore depletion .

long term the goal should be to become very insulin sensitive and healthy levels of body fat so you can actually eat and use carbs efficiently . thats why I say TKD is a tool, it gets you to a goal but is not the goal itself

[Jonbana]

TKD is a great tool to use when insulin sensitivity goes to crap and needs fixed but you still want the glycogen stores and not have to deplete them. so basically you can improve insulin sensitivity without a full bore depletion .

long term the goal should be to become very insulin sensitive and healthy levels of body fat so you can actually eat and use carbs efficiently . thats why I say TKD is a tool, it gets you to a goal but is not the goal itself

Dam fair enough I love keto 3 years straight but I don't think it worked long term.


As for my carbs a pro locally told me this not sure if I agree he knows what I'm on too

1 hour pre 1 cup oats 50g whey
15 minutes pre 25g dextrose
Pwo 25g dextrose 50g whey

I always thought zero in intra carbs would be better I'm eating the oatmeal 1 hour pre

[GearHeaded]

I take in pre workout, intra workout, and post workout carbs . this is the best time of the day to take in large amounts of carbs cause your most insulin sensitive then. I'm also taking 20iu of insulin at this time too, so I have to take them intra workout.

I'm a big believer in intra workout nutrition (if your stomach can handle it). in the form of EAAs (or whey) and a Carb drink (I prefer amleopectin over dextrose).

during your workout we have very high amounts of blood going into the muscles. normally during the day we have very little blood flow into muscle. Blood is where all the essential nutrients are carried, so why not take advantage of this time frame. we want to saturate our blood with as much amino acids, glucose, creatine, and insulin as possible when blood flow to the muscle is high and drive these into the muscle cells while they are signaling (and being depleted of glycogen)

[Jonbana]

I take in pre workout, intra workout, and post workout carbs . this is the best time of the day to take in large amounts of carbs cause your most insulin sensitive then. I'm also taking 20iu of insulin at this time too, so I have to take them intra workout.

I'm a big believer in intra workout nutrition (if your stomach can handle it). in the form of EAAs (or whey) and a Carb drink (I prefer amleopectin over dextrose).

during your workout we have very high amounts of blood going into the muscles. normally during the day we have very little blood flow into muscle. Blood is where all the essential nutrients are carried, so why not take advantage of this time frame. we want to saturate our blood with as much amino acids, glucose, creatine, and insulin as possible when blood flow to the muscle is high and drive these into the muscle cells while they are signaling (and being depleted of glycogen)

Thank you for the response ball park carbs?

Would 1 cups oats 1 hour pre
25g dextrose intra
25g dextrose post
50g rice 1 hour

Be good a good start

I'm still struggling trying to eat carbs I enjoy keto to much

[MuscleScience]

Damn dude, we must think alike lol!

I’m not against KETO, I don’t believe I said I was. It’s just not for me. My body, for what I do, functions better on lower fats, med/high carbs, med/high protein. I do a lot of HIIT training and so my body needs carbs. It’s like putting an Olympic Sprinter on a KETO diet. He won’t function as great (and maybe he will— depends on many factors).

I firmly believe in this: there is no one size fits all diet scheme that’ll help you shed weight. It depends on many factors: body type, exercise type, genetics, daily life, etc. Just find what works for you man. It took me many years to realize that and it’s finally paying off.

The problem is, no matter how many carbs you eat your body can only store a small finite amount 2-3% by weight in the muscle and 5-7% in the liver. All the excess goes straight to fat cells and it hydrolized and turn to fatty acids. Your body during a workout is using all 4 energy systems to maintain energy balance and production. Depending on how much you weigh, carb loading is nothing but an exercise in futility.

[GearHeaded]

Thank you for the response ball park carbs?

Would 1 cups oats 1 hour pre
25g dextrose intra
25g dextrose post
50g rice 1 hour

Be good a good start

I'm still struggling trying to eat carbs I enjoy keto to much

yeah you could start with that and have no carbs at any other time of the day and see how it goes.

[GearHeaded]

carb loading is nothing but an exercise in futility.

what are your thoughts on glycogen depletion and then carb loading and super compensation for an enhanced body builder ?

guys can deplete and then carb load and put on what appears to be 10-20 pounds of muscle in two days (they stayed lean and filled out). is this all glycogen weight, no , but remember a CarboHYDRATE helps promote inter cellular water retention . a muscle filled with glycogen and water is a bigger fuller harder muscle .

[MuscleScience]

what are your thoughts on glycogen depletion and then carb loading and super compensation for an enhanced body builder ?

guys can deplete and then carb load and put on what appears to be 10-20 pounds of muscle in two days (they stayed lean and filled out). is this all glycogen weight, no , but remember a CarboHYDRATE helps promote inter cellular water retention . a muscle filled with glycogen and water is a bigger fuller harder muscle .

That’s different than say an endurance athlete who’s muscles are already saturated with glycogen. For body builders it makes sense. For every one part glucose 4 parts water have to move into the cell with it. Thus voluminzing the cell and making the muscles look fuller.

[MuscleScience]

I can deplete and then replete and put on 15lbs of water weight overnight. It’s actually pretty amazing when you think about it. If I am able to move upto classic physique my weight is 215 but hopefully be 230 by contest day.

[Jonbana]

Right Now I'm keto every single me expect after my PWO shake before bed I eat carbs basically carb back loading

I think I make be slightly insulin resistant from keto so long .....

Like I mentioned before 1500 calories a day gaining weight I'm not doing what someone here reccomemed 2000 a day I'm up 7 pounds in 7 days

I have no problem no eating carbs

[MuscleScience]

Right Now I'm keto every single me expect after my PWO shake before bed I eat carbs basically carb back loading

I think I make be slightly insulin resistant from keto so long .....

Like I mentioned before 1500 calories a day gaining weight I'm not doing what someone here reccomemed 2000 a day I'm up 7 pounds in 7 days

I have no problem no eating carbs

If you’re not Keto in every single meal it’s not Keto. It’s low carb. Do you know what your maintaince calorie number is?

[GearHeaded]

I think I make be slightly insulin resistant from keto so long .....

usually just the opposite happens from being on Keto for awhile . you become very insulin sensitive (which is a good thing). IF you consume carbs around your workout , and you are very efficient at using insulin and up taking those carbs as muscle glycogen, then you'll likely put on a little bit of weight rather quickly as you re-fill those depleted glycogen stores . this is GOOD weight (who wouldn't want bigger fuller harder muscle)

buy a 10$ blood glucose meter at walarmt . if your insulin resistant then you'll be running high blood sugars. but again keto generally helps you become insulin sensitive, not resistant .

[MuscleScience]

usually just the opposite happens from being on Keto for awhile . you become very insulin sensitive (which is a good thing). IF you consume carbs around your workout , and you are very efficient at using insulin and up taking those carbs as muscle glycogen, then you'll likely put on a little bit of weight rather quickly as you re-fill those depleted glycogen stores . this is GOOD weight (who wouldn't want bigger fuller harder muscle)

buy a 10$ blood glucose meter at walarmt . if your insulin resistant then you'll be running high blood sugars. but again keto generally helps you become insulin sensitive, not resistant .

I saw that too. The funny thing about insulin resistance is that in diabetic, the number of insulin receptors is actually upregulated on the surface of the cell membranes but the receptors overall become more and more ineffective. With Keto or VLCD such as 500 kcals a day or gastric bypass. Because the body isn’t flooded with constant sugar and insulin. A Diabetics cells will start to down regulate insulin receptors and cause them to be more sensitive. In grad school insulin receptors didn’t really spark my interest like adrenaline receptor did. Now I’m extremely curious about it. I guess in reality there is a lot more application and public health consequences to the insulin receptor function or dysfunction...lol

[Jonbana]

I have a glucose meter cause I also test keto bloods I don't has glucose strips but I could get some what do you look for number wise to test ...

And to the other poster I never said I was keto right. Now I was keto 3 years trying to eat carbs now lol

[Jonbana]

Also I heard the opposite keto makes you insulin resistant it sensitive.

Let's say the only diet i can follow and enjoy is keto would the best wasteful or should I continue to force carbs and not look forward to my next meal

[Jonbana]

I'm also maybe thinking.

Maybe I'm over trained and that's why I cannot grow I cannot lose weight ....

I know most say train 3x a week 4 max.... I train 6 times a week I rest when feeling it

I even considered taking a full week off the gym but I can't see how train ing 3x a week would be better...

[Clove1234]

Too low of calories will not let you lose weight. Ive done a lot of research myself and 12 hours fasting seems to be optimal. Also obsessing over scale weight will raise cortisol. Supplement vitamin c

[Jonbana]

Too low of calories will not let you lose weight. Ive done a lot of research myself and 12 hours fasting seems to be optimal. Also obsessing over scale weight will raise cortisol. Supplement vitamin c

Whats the standard calorie to start at ? and I think I agree currently im eating 12/12 almost today I broke my fast at 10 hours woke up breakfast at the gym

[Clove1234]

https://www.precisionnutrition.com/w...oss-calculator

Check out that link, very accurate. Got it from someone else on here. Start there and work your way down. Stick to now more than 12 hours fasting. If you have a super clean diet and are not cheating. Weigh yourself once a week. Have a weigh day every Monday like i do. Use the mirror and don’t stress constantly about scale weight.