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Thread: Not lossing weight massive cycle low calorie

  1. #1
    Jonbana is offline Member
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    Not lossing weight massive cycle low calorie

    215 pounds supposedly 10%Bf I think I'm around 15%


    Cycle

    Tren 400mg/wk
    Test 800mg/wk
    T3 150mcg a day
    Clen 150mg a day (2 weeks on 2 weeks off)
    Aromasin 25mg a day


    Diet

    1500-1700 calories
    16/8 fasting 4-5 meals
    200g protein 30g fat 150g carbs

    Week 7 of cycle not lossing weight started at 217pounds went to 230 probably water that. Went down to

    I eat clean don't cheat if I do a weekly cheat I see zero body weight change I'm never hungry I can eat less but force food down

    Wtf is going on



    Training

    Push / pull / leg twice a week 60 minutes 15minutes post cardio

    I know most will say eat more but on cycle don't see how that would help when I'm trying to cut

  2. #2
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
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    drop the test to 200-300mg per week and keep the tren at 400. absolutely zero reason to run high dosage of test with tren when your cutting (thats what you would do for a bulk with tren).

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    drop the test to 200-300mg per week and keep the tren at 400. absolutely zero reason to run high dosage of test with tren when your cutting (thats what you would do for a bulk with tren).
    I was going to do that actually ok 400 test 400 tren a week easily done ..... what about calories would you increase them just finished clen yesterday did my first 2 weeks and now im off for 2 weeks

    I have zero sides at all the doses too
    Last edited by Jonbana; 12-13-2017 at 10:44 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    drop the test to 200-300mg per week and keep the tren at 400. absolutely zero reason to run high dosage of test with tren when your cutting (thats what you would do for a bulk with tren).
    This!!!!

    Your stats seem similar to mine. When I diet for a show it’s 16-20 weeks with the last 6-8 weeks being fairly intensive. If you lose a pound a week, that’s really good and where you want to be at. It’s spares muscle and helps keep your metabolism from bottoming out.

    I eventually found that my body responded best to Keto diet when cutting or in maintance. You might try that and see how it goes. Essentially my diet was

    The reverse Macros of yours, 200 ish grams of protein 100gr of fat and 30(or less) carbs.

    Now that I think about it. Your fat intake is way to low in my opinion. You need a good amount of quality fat coming in when you are dieting down to keep your metabolism from wanting to go into starvation mode.
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  5. #5
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    I feel like running everything you are running you need to UP your calories. I say bump up to about 2000 calories for a few weeks and see how everything goes. Your body is fighting itself due to the low calorie consumption. I fell victim to that years ago and learned since then. You'd be surprised how much of a difference that'll make. I know, I've had clients stare at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead when I told them this, but try it for 4 weeks and see. I would also look into your macro breakdown as well. In your case, with what you are running, I'd hit 50% from Proteins, 20% from fats (I'd never go below 20% personally) and 30% Carbs. So if you do that math you are looking at: 250g Protein, 45g Fats, 150g Carbs.

    I say give it a shot... what do you have to lose? Weight?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    This!!!!

    Your stats seem similar to mine. When I diet for a show its 16-20 weeks with the last 6-8 weeks being fairly intensive. If you lose a pound a week, thats really good and where you want to be at. Its spares muscle and helps keep your metabolism from bottoming out.

    I eventually found that my body responded best to Keto diet when cutting or in maintance. You might try that and see how it goes. Essentially my diet was

    The reverse Macros of yours, 200 ish grams of protein 100gr of fat and 30(or less) carbs.

    Now that I think about it. Your fat intake is way to low in my opinion. You need a good amount of quality fat coming in when you are dieting down to keep your metabolism from wanting to go into starvation mode.
    I love keto I did keto for 3 years I tested blood everything but it's hard to get buy the fact keto doesn't work long term when I wanted it to work. So I'm.trying to stay away from keto. Yes I'm aware fats are low but is I raise fats I need to lower carbs and I'm.basicslly keto

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by solit1ea View Post
    I feel like running everything you are running you need to UP your calories. I say bump up to about 2000 calories for a few weeks and see how everything goes. Your body is fighting itself due to the low calorie consumption. I fell victim to that years ago and learned since then. You'd be surprised how much of a difference that'll make. I know, I've had clients stare at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead when I told them this, but try it for 4 weeks and see. I would also look into your macro breakdown as well. In your case, with what you are running, I'd hit 50% from Proteins, 20% from fats (I'd never go below 20% personally) and 30% Carbs. So if you do that math you are looking at: 250g Protein, 45g Fats, 150g Carbs.

    I say give it a shot... what do you have to lose? Weight?
    I'll try 1800-2k calories see what Happens like I mentioned to the other poster I was keto for 3 years I want to stay away cause it doesn't work long term for muscle growth

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    First meal 2 scoops whey to break my fast

    Second meal is pre workout. 1cup oats 1scoop whey 1 egg

    Pwo 50g whey 50g dextrose considering oats instead

    Pwo meal. Chicken rice veggies 2 whole eggs


    I would break my fast with eggs or chicken but using up protein powder to keep calories low

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbana View Post
    Push / pull / leg twice a week 60 minutes 15minutes post cardio

    I know most will say eat more but on cycle don't see how that would help when I'm trying to cut
    when your taking a high amount of androgens your calorie demand is going to be much higher. 800mg of test with 400mg tren is 1.2 grams of highly androgenic compounds. you don't really need that much androgens for a cut . The only androgen I would use for a cut is Tren, then I throw in low androgenic compounds in there like VAR.

    I think whats happened is you have stalled out by going too low calorie while simultaneously upping your calorie demand significantly with all the androgens. your body is in survival mode trying to hold onto all it can.

    you could increase your calories (mainly carbs) and use those additional calories to fuel your work load (not be stored as body fat) and have better workouts.

    speaking of workload , what does your training look like ? high volume, low volume, high intensity ? how many days per week? fasted cardio separate from weights ?
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  10. #10
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    I'm going to up calories to 2,000 a day continue fasting 16/8 as well

    I'm going to drop test to 400mg/wk

    Right now training is probably high volume
    p/p/l Rest p/p/l rest

    usually
    chest bench 4x10/8/6/5
    Incline bench 3x10
    decline 3x10
    Fly 4x10
    Over head press 3x10
    Side raise 3x12
    2 tri movements

    im done in 45 minutes max , 15 minutes cardio PWO with abs

    chest is 2-3 times a week I was once a week but upped it all


    Fors carbs I do oats 1 hour pre nothing during 50g dextrose post than rice post meal

    I was thinking carbs during but not sure , I feel like half way done I don't get a pump or a pump at all but that's from the t3 and clen I almost feel like its fake but shouldn't be from my source

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    when your taking a high amount of androgens your calorie demand is going to be much higher. 800mg of test with 400mg tren is 1.2 grams of highly androgenic compounds. you don't really need that much androgens for a cut . The only androgen I would use for a cut is Tren, then I throw in low androgenic compounds in there like VAR.

    I think whats happened is you have stalled out by going too low calorie while simultaneously upping your calorie demand significantly with all the androgens. your body is in survival mode trying to hold onto all it can.

    you could increase your calories (mainly carbs) and use those additional calories to fuel your work load (not be stored as body fat) and have better workouts.

    speaking of workload , what does your training look like ? high volume, low volume, high intensity ? how many days per week? fasted cardio separate from weights ?
    I agree with him. Slowly up your calories. The sample I gave you is NOT in anyway Keto, so I’m not sure why you mentioned that from my post. I’m personally not a Keto fan, although I know others who are. That’s fine. It works for them. But I think you are in a starvation mode with the body and it’s fighting you. Up the calories and see what happens

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by solit1ea View Post
    I agree with him. Slowly up your calories. The sample I gave you is NOT in anyway Keto, so Im not sure why you mentioned that from my post. Im personally not a Keto fan, although I know others who are. Thats fine. It works for them. But I think you are in a starvation mode with the body and its fighting you. Up the calories and see what happens
    The guy before you mentioned keto sorry. Why are you against keto I fight everyday not going back keto, and yes I'm.esting 2000 calories a day at the moment the macros you gave me. One guy said. Ditch the 1 pre workout oats and take dextrose 30 minutes pre than again post than oats after the shake he said the oats pre is useless cause it won't be used

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbana View Post
    The guy before you mentioned keto sorry. Why are you against keto I fight everyday not going back keto,
    I've ran Keto a bunch of times . what I've learned from it is that AAS cycles are somewhat wasteful on Keto , Anabolics LOVE CARBS and make great use of them and partition them very well . thats one of the main things that steroids do, especially Tren . Its going to use carbs to super fill your muscles with glycogen (which will help with overall muscle growth being amino acids are shuttled in at the same time).
    if you went Keto then you would not get this great benefit out of AAS use

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I've ran Keto a bunch of times . what I've learned from it is that AAS cycles are somewhat wasteful on Keto , Anabolics LOVE CARBS and make great use of them and partition them very well . thats one of the main things that steroids do, especially Tren . Its going to use carbs to super fill your muscles with glycogen (which will help with overall muscle growth being amino acids are shuttled in at the same time).
    if you went Keto then you would not get this great benefit out of AAS use
    Thought son TKD long term not looking at AAS ?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I've ran Keto a bunch of times . what I've learned from it is that AAS cycles are somewhat wasteful on Keto , Anabolics LOVE CARBS and make great use of them and partition them very well . thats one of the main things that steroids do, especially Tren . Its going to use carbs to super fill your muscles with glycogen (which will help with overall muscle growth being amino acids are shuttled in at the same time).
    if you went Keto then you would not get this great benefit out of AAS use
    Damn dude, we must think alike lol!

    I’m not against KETO, I don’t believe I said I was. It’s just not for me. My body, for what I do, functions better on lower fats, med/high carbs, med/high protein. I do a lot of HIIT training and so my body needs carbs. It’s like putting an Olympic Sprinter on a KETO diet. He won’t function as great (and maybe he will— depends on many factors).

    I firmly believe in this: there is no one size fits all diet scheme that’ll help you shed weight. It depends on many factors: body type, exercise type, genetics, daily life, etc. Just find what works for you man. It took me many years to realize that and it’s finally paying off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbana View Post
    Thought son TKD long term not looking at AAS ?
    TKD is a great tool to use when insulin sensitivity goes to crap and needs fixed but you still want the glycogen stores and not have to deplete them. so basically you can improve insulin sensitivity without a full bore depletion .

    long term the goal should be to become very insulin sensitive and healthy levels of body fat so you can actually eat and use carbs efficiently . thats why I say TKD is a tool, it gets you to a goal but is not the goal itself
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 12-15-2017 at 10:40 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    TKD is a great tool to use when insulin sensitivity goes to crap and needs fixed but you still want the glycogen stores and not have to deplete them. so basically you can improve insulin sensitivity without a full bore depletion .

    long term the goal should be to become very insulin sensitive and healthy levels of body fat so you can actually eat and use carbs efficiently . thats why I say TKD is a tool, it gets you to a goal but is not the goal itself
    Dam fair enough I love keto 3 years straight but I don't think it worked long term.


    As for my carbs a pro locally told me this not sure if I agree he knows what I'm on too

    1 hour pre 1 cup oats 50g whey
    15 minutes pre 25g dextrose
    Pwo 25g dextrose 50g whey

    I always thought zero in intra carbs would be better I'm eating the oatmeal 1 hour pre

  18. #18
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
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    I take in pre workout, intra workout, and post workout carbs . this is the best time of the day to take in large amounts of carbs cause your most insulin sensitive then. I'm also taking 20iu of insulin at this time too, so I have to take them intra workout.

    I'm a big believer in intra workout nutrition (if your stomach can handle it). in the form of EAAs (or whey) and a Carb drink (I prefer amleopectin over dextrose).

    during your workout we have very high amounts of blood going into the muscles. normally during the day we have very little blood flow into muscle. Blood is where all the essential nutrients are carried, so why not take advantage of this time frame. we want to saturate our blood with as much amino acids, glucose, creatine, and insulin as possible when blood flow to the muscle is high and drive these into the muscle cells while they are signaling (and being depleted of glycogen)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I take in pre workout, intra workout, and post workout carbs . this is the best time of the day to take in large amounts of carbs cause your most insulin sensitive then. I'm also taking 20iu of insulin at this time too, so I have to take them intra workout.

    I'm a big believer in intra workout nutrition (if your stomach can handle it). in the form of EAAs (or whey) and a Carb drink (I prefer amleopectin over dextrose).

    during your workout we have very high amounts of blood going into the muscles. normally during the day we have very little blood flow into muscle. Blood is where all the essential nutrients are carried, so why not take advantage of this time frame. we want to saturate our blood with as much amino acids, glucose, creatine, and insulin as possible when blood flow to the muscle is high and drive these into the muscle cells while they are signaling (and being depleted of glycogen)

    Thank you for the response ball park carbs?

    Would 1 cups oats 1 hour pre
    25g dextrose intra
    25g dextrose post
    50g rice 1 hour

    Be good a good start

    I'm still struggling trying to eat carbs I enjoy keto to much

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by solit1ea View Post
    Damn dude, we must think alike lol!

    I’m not against KETO, I don’t believe I said I was. It’s just not for me. My body, for what I do, functions better on lower fats, med/high carbs, med/high protein. I do a lot of HIIT training and so my body needs carbs. It’s like putting an Olympic Sprinter on a KETO diet. He won’t function as great (and maybe he will— depends on many factors).

    I firmly believe in this: there is no one size fits all diet scheme that’ll help you shed weight. It depends on many factors: body type, exercise type, genetics, daily life, etc. Just find what works for you man. It took me many years to realize that and it’s finally paying off.
    The problem is, no matter how many carbs you eat your body can only store a small finite amount 2-3% by weight in the muscle and 5-7% in the liver. All the excess goes straight to fat cells and it hydrolized and turn to fatty acids. Your body during a workout is using all 4 energy systems to maintain energy balance and production. Depending on how much you weigh, carb loading is nothing but an exercise in futility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbana View Post
    Thank you for the response ball park carbs?

    Would 1 cups oats 1 hour pre
    25g dextrose intra
    25g dextrose post
    50g rice 1 hour

    Be good a good start

    I'm still struggling trying to eat carbs I enjoy keto to much
    yeah you could start with that and have no carbs at any other time of the day and see how it goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    carb loading is nothing but an exercise in futility.
    what are your thoughts on glycogen depletion and then carb loading and super compensation for an enhanced body builder ?

    guys can deplete and then carb load and put on what appears to be 10-20 pounds of muscle in two days (they stayed lean and filled out). is this all glycogen weight, no , but remember a CarboHYDRATE helps promote inter cellular water retention . a muscle filled with glycogen and water is a bigger fuller harder muscle .

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    what are your thoughts on glycogen depletion and then carb loading and super compensation for an enhanced body builder ?

    guys can deplete and then carb load and put on what appears to be 10-20 pounds of muscle in two days (they stayed lean and filled out). is this all glycogen weight, no , but remember a CarboHYDRATE helps promote inter cellular water retention . a muscle filled with glycogen and water is a bigger fuller harder muscle .
    That’s different than say an endurance athlete who’s muscles are already saturated with glycogen. For body builders it makes sense. For every one part glucose 4 parts water have to move into the cell with it. Thus voluminzing the cell and making the muscles look fuller.
    If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself. Albert Einstein

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    I can deplete and then replete and put on 15lbs of water weight overnight. It’s actually pretty amazing when you think about it. If I am able to move upto classic physique my weight is 215 but hopefully be 230 by contest day.
    If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself. Albert Einstein

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    Right Now I'm keto every single me expect after my PWO shake before bed I eat carbs basically carb back loading

    I think I make be slightly insulin resistant from keto so long .....

    Like I mentioned before 1500 calories a day gaining weight I'm not doing what someone here reccomemed 2000 a day I'm up 7 pounds in 7 days

    I have no problem no eating carbs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbana View Post
    Right Now I'm keto every single me expect after my PWO shake before bed I eat carbs basically carb back loading

    I think I make be slightly insulin resistant from keto so long .....

    Like I mentioned before 1500 calories a day gaining weight I'm not doing what someone here reccomemed 2000 a day I'm up 7 pounds in 7 days

    I have no problem no eating carbs
    If you’re not Keto in every single meal it’s not Keto. It’s low carb. Do you know what your maintaince calorie number is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbana View Post
    I think I make be slightly insulin resistant from keto so long .....
    usually just the opposite happens from being on Keto for awhile . you become very insulin sensitive (which is a good thing). IF you consume carbs around your workout , and you are very efficient at using insulin and up taking those carbs as muscle glycogen, then you'll likely put on a little bit of weight rather quickly as you re-fill those depleted glycogen stores . this is GOOD weight (who wouldn't want bigger fuller harder muscle)

    buy a 10$ blood glucose meter at walarmt . if your insulin resistant then you'll be running high blood sugars. but again keto generally helps you become insulin sensitive, not resistant .

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    usually just the opposite happens from being on Keto for awhile . you become very insulin sensitive (which is a good thing). IF you consume carbs around your workout , and you are very efficient at using insulin and up taking those carbs as muscle glycogen, then you'll likely put on a little bit of weight rather quickly as you re-fill those depleted glycogen stores . this is GOOD weight (who wouldn't want bigger fuller harder muscle)

    buy a 10$ blood glucose meter at walarmt . if your insulin resistant then you'll be running high blood sugars. but again keto generally helps you become insulin sensitive, not resistant .
    I saw that too. The funny thing about insulin resistance is that in diabetic, the number of insulin receptors is actually upregulated on the surface of the cell membranes but the receptors overall become more and more ineffective. With Keto or VLCD such as 500 kcals a day or gastric bypass. Because the body isn’t flooded with constant sugar and insulin. A Diabetics cells will start to down regulate insulin receptors and cause them to be more sensitive. In grad school insulin receptors didn’t really spark my interest like adrenaline receptor did. Now I’m extremely curious about it. I guess in reality there is a lot more application and public health consequences to the insulin receptor function or dysfunction...lol
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    I have a glucose meter cause I also test keto bloods I don't has glucose strips but I could get some what do you look for number wise to test ...

    And to the other poster I never said I was keto right. Now I was keto 3 years trying to eat carbs now lol

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    Also I heard the opposite keto makes you insulin resistant it sensitive.

    Let's say the only diet i can follow and enjoy is keto would the best wasteful or should I continue to force carbs and not look forward to my next meal

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    I'm also maybe thinking.

    Maybe I'm over trained and that's why I cannot grow I cannot lose weight ....

    I know most say train 3x a week 4 max.... I train 6 times a week I rest when feeling it

    I even considered taking a full week off the gym but I can't see how train ing 3x a week would be better...

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    Too low of calories will not let you lose weight. Ive done a lot of research myself and 12 hours fasting seems to be optimal. Also obsessing over scale weight will raise cortisol. Supplement vitamin c

  33. #33
    Jonbana is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clove1234 View Post
    Too low of calories will not let you lose weight. Ive done a lot of research myself and 12 hours fasting seems to be optimal. Also obsessing over scale weight will raise cortisol. Supplement vitamin c
    Whats the standard calorie to start at ? and I think I agree currently im eating 12/12 almost today I broke my fast at 10 hours woke up breakfast at the gym

  34. #34
    Clove1234 is offline Associate Member
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    https://www.precisionnutrition.com/w...oss-calculator

    Check out that link, very accurate. Got it from someone else on here. Start there and work your way down. Stick to now more than 12 hours fasting. If you have a super clean diet and are not cheating. Weigh yourself once a week. Have a weigh day every Monday like i do. Use the mirror and don’t stress constantly about scale weight.

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