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    blaircooper is offline New Member
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    Meet this natural vegan bodybuilder..

    I came across a video of Nimai Delgado, wherein he talked about his journey as a vegan and bodybuilder. Many people think that you cannot become a bodybuilder if you do not eat meat. Well, apparently, this is a wrong misconceptions. Check the full interview later.

    You can see it at London Real:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SzR0Ki8aIk

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    I don't support veganism at all
    I respect them on the spiritual journey but there's no real benefit to going vegan
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    I don't support veganism at all
    I respect them on the spiritual journey but there's no real benefit to going vegan
    I felt the same way until recently. All the instagram posts kinda got me thinking. And theres lots of people who have gone vegan and claim they feel amazing. I think I might try it for a month or 3 and see how i feel...
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    I felt the same way until recently. All the instagram posts kinda got me thinking. And theres lots of people who have gone vegan and claim they feel amazing. I think I might try it for a month or 3 and see how i feel...
    Its bullshit ideology to fuck up the US markets and make the nation weak
    Veganism is bullshit and I wont spent any more seconds discussing this



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    Hello gentlemen , I'm vegan and trust me , it has alot of health benefits .
    You can get everything you need trust me.

    I feel men feel like less of a man not digging into a big piece of meat which is silly haha .


    I don't believe this guy is natural he looked juiced the fuck up.

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    Just watched the video , mother fucker is lying through his teeth and he knows awfully alot about steroids .

    To lie about it is just plain fucking dumb and wrong.
    Just stfu and don't say anything .


    Anyone remember Lance Armstrong !?

    Just because someone denies it , doesn't mean shit .
    There is a saying ..

    You can tell someone is lying by watching their mouth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blaircooper View Post
    I came across a video of Nimai Delgado, wherein he talked about his journey as a vegan and bodybuilder. Many people think that you cannot become a bodybuilder if you do not eat meat. Well, apparently, this is a wrong misconceptions. Check the full interview later.

    You can see it at London Real:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SzR0Ki8aIk
    London Real also did an extensive interview with a Meat Eating Bodybuilder - Dorian Yates. . I prefer Yates physique over this guy. theres no comparison just looking at the two, I'm definitely sticking to steak and steroids

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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    I don't support veganism at all
    I respect them on the spiritual journey but there's no real benefit to going vegan
    Only problem is plants have fucking emotions just like a cow does. A cactus isn't stupid (i literally am talking about how smart a cacti is on a steroid website, wtf is my life) it is sentient and has thorns purposely to deteer threats because it doesn't wanna freaking die.

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    Solid upper body but not large by any means. No clue if he has wheels or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaircooper View Post
    I came across a video of Nimai Delgado, wherein he talked about his journey as a vegan and bodybuilder. Many people think that you cannot become a bodybuilder if you do not eat meat. Well, apparently, this is a wrong misconceptions. Check the full interview later.

    You can see it at London Real:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SzR0Ki8aIk
    I haven't eaten meat for 5 years, and i was vegan for 3. My current diet is practically all plant based, some diary but no eggs, meat or fish. Never had any issues with meeting my protein needs, all depends on your approach and food choices.

    Whether he is natural or not, i dont know.
    Last edited by Eduke93; 01-09-2019 at 11:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT View Post
    Hello gentlemen , I'm vegan and trust me , it has alot of health benefits .
    You can get everything you need trust me.

    I feel men feel like less of a man not digging into a big piece of meat which is silly haha .


    I don't believe this guy is natural he looked juiced the fuck up.

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    Glad there's someone else here with me lol
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    I have no problem with Someone’s diet of choice. But the vegans are unusually militant in their beliefs and want to force complete consumption of meat to zero by 2035.

    Veganism has shifted their narrative from living longer and healthier (because it appears they don’t)

    To it’s more ethical and planet friendly, which it certainly isn’t compared the amount of effort in food, transportation, water and carbon emissions etc that goes into producing a pound of meat vs a pound of leafy greens. If you did it calorie vs calorie, you only get 10% of the energy out of it as compared to what goes into it.

    To be far, the paleo/carnivore people can be a bit militant too. All I’m saying is I really enjoy my steak and salad


    Mihrshahi, Seema, et al. “Vegetarian Diet and All-cause Mortality: Evidence from a Large Population-Based Australian Cohort – The 45 And Up Study.”
    Preventive Medicine. December 2016.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    Its bullshit ideology to fuck up the US markets and make the nation weak
    Veganism is bullshit and I wont spent any more seconds discussing this



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    I think you should do some more research into the subject, certainly isn't an ideology to fuck up the markets. It's an economical lifestyle approach to help support the environment and stop the torturing and slaughter of innocent beings.

    I honestly don't care if you eat meat or not, but i am sure we can all agree on the way these animals are treated is disgusting, if they where cats and dogs you'd certainly look at the market differently.

    P.s it takes 7kg of grain to produce 1kg of beef.

    Meet this natural vegan bodybuilder..-698ca33b-d592-4546-bfb5-c068804b4551.jpeg
    Last edited by Eduke93; 01-09-2019 at 11:09 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    [B[/B]I think you should do some more research into the subject, certainly isn't an ideology to fuck up the markets. It's an economical lifestyle approach to help support the environment and stop the torturing and slaughter of innocent beings.

    I honestly don't care if you eat meat or not, but i am sure we can all agree on the way these animals are treated is disgusting, if they where cats and dogs you'd certainly look at the market differently.
    That’s kinda an ironic statement...

    I have had and raised cattle, chickens and rabbits for meat my entire life. I and nobody I know tortures or slaughters these animals. There is an economic incentive for the animals to be cared for greatly and harvest in a stress free and humaine manner. If the animal is stressed and scared before they are harvested they release large amounts of adrenaline and nor adrenaline which sours the taste of the meat and makes the meat almost in edible. Great care is took to make sure the animals are not injured on the way to harvest. As again the quality and quantity of meat goes down. You can’t sell a steak with bruising and scar tissue in it. Almost every farmer I’ve ever met loves and takes care of his herds or flocks more than the average vegan cares and loves for his fellow man. Because those animals feed his family and his neighbors family.

    What’s more humaine anyway, a hawk chasing, catching and shredding a chicken and eating it while it’s still alive? Wolves, coyotes and mountain lions stalking, chasing and disembowel the cow and let it die slowly? I can’t tell you how many calves I’ve seen killed by coyotes and all they do is disembowel and eat just the liver. Or a bobcat getting into a chicken coop and kills every chicken in there just for fun.

    Humans are apart of nature, it’s a mistake to think we are not apart of the earth and it’s eco systems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    That’s kinda an ironic statement...

    I have had and raised cattle, chickens and rabbits for meat my entire life. I and nobody I know tortures or slaughters these animals. There is an economic incentive for the animals to be cared for greatly and harvest in a stress free and humaine manner. If the animal is stressed and scared before they are harvested they release large amounts of adrenaline and nor adrenaline which sours the taste of the meat and makes the meat almost in edible. Great care is took to make sure the animals are not injured on the way to harvest. As again the quality and quantity of meat goes down. You can’t sell a steak with bruising and scar tissue in it. Almost every farmer I’ve ever met loves and takes care of his herds or flocks more than the average vegan cares and loves for his fellow man. Because those animals feed his family and his neighbors family.

    What’s more humaine anyway, a hawk chasing, catching and shredding a chicken and eating it while it’s still alive? Wolves, coyotes and mountain lions stalking, chasing and disembowel the cow and let it die slowly? I can’t tell you how many calves I’ve seen killed by coyotes and all they do is disembowel and eat just the liver. Or a bobcat getting into a chicken coop and kills every chicken in there just for fun.

    Humans are apart of nature, it’s a mistake to think we are not apart of the earth and it’s eco systems.
    Where’s the irony in my statement?

    I didn’t say you where torturing or hurting your animals or would ever do such a thing, 90% of meat will come from factory farms… and we all know these animals are not well kept compared to your local farmer despite their fate being the same, a knife across their throat… We don’t have enough land to support our current consumption in grass fed beef…

    You can’t compare humans and animals..

    Yes, nature is brutal. As humans, we have risen above this and other animal behaviors. Furthermore, we don't judge our behavior and morals against animals in other contexts, so why should we do it with regard to eating? After all, male geese gang-rape female geese too. Does that justify such behavior in humans? Should we roll on a rotting animal and eat excrement? Dogs do this, after all…

    Also it’s a requirement for them to live, they do it for survival purposes, we have other options. Again, I don’t care what you guys eat and my argument certainly has never been economics, I purely don’t want to contribute to something that causes pain and suffering to other beings, I’m not saying I’m better than those who do, it’s just the way I feel!

    p.s, lets keep this friendly, i love a little vegan debate but no hard feelings! a very controversial subject....
    Last edited by Eduke93; 01-09-2019 at 11:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    You can’t compare humans and animals..

    Animals are nicer.


    Meet this natural vegan bodybuilder..-tink6.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Where’s the irony in my statement?

    I didn’t say you where torturing or hurting your animals or would ever do such a thing, 90% of meat will come from factory farms… and we all know these animals are not well kept compared to your local farmer despite their fate being the same, a knife across their throat… We don’t have enough land to support our current consumption in grass fed beef…

    You can’t compare humans and animals..

    Yes, nature is brutal. As humans, we have risen above this and other animal behaviors. Furthermore, we don't judge our behavior and morals against animals in other contexts, so why should we do it with regard to eating? After all, male geese gang-rape female geese too. Does that justify such behavior in humans? Should we roll on a rotting animal and eat excrement? Dogs do this, after all…

    Also it’s a requirement for them to live, they do it for survival purposes, we have other options. Again, I don’t care what you guys eat and my argument certainly has never been economics, I purely don’t want to contribute to something that causes pain and suffering to other beings, I’m not saying I’m better than those who do, it’s just the way I feel!

    p.s, lets keep this friendly, i love a little vegan debate but no hard feelings! a very controversial subject....
    Humans are animals, and cows only eat grain 30-120 days before they are harvested. Unless you have them completely grass fed and finished or do another protocol. Which is not typically different than above in the US beef supply.

    FYI all cows are grass fed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    90% of meat will come from factory farms… and we all know these animals are not well kept compared to your local farmer despite their fate being the same, a knife across their throat…

    You can’t compare humans and animals..

    Yes, nature is brutal. As humans, we have risen above this and other animal behaviors
    one main difference between meat eating animals, and meat eating humans..
    - the animal, say the lion for example, has to go out and hunt and get lucky enough to make a kill and eat.. then he starves for a week or more until he has another successful hunt/kill
    - humans got smart and resourceful enough to actually capture the prey, fence the prey in and raise and feed they prey (ie, feed them all that crappy vegan food like grass and grains) and then breed the prey. that way they could have access to it all the time and provide food for themselves, their family and future generations day in and day out.

    in the big picture of things in the history of the world , "factory farming" is not inherently immoral (like vegans like to think) , its actually genius and the reason why the human race has thrived for thousands of years.
    if we were dependent on only plant based foods to eat for the last million years, we would of died out or at least surely not be ruling the world.. if we were too stupid to only be able to hunt and not capture and raise our prey 'farming' it we would of died out. meat eating and farming our prey has kept us thriving.


    whats easier , having a large successful garden that provides tons of food year round for your family (near impossible) , or having some land fenced in with some cattle ranging the fields and some chickens in the coop.
    guarantee you for anyone that the latter is much more doable, easy, sustainable, and provides a ton more food and nutrition to feed a family year round no matter the weather...
    gardens are a pain in the ass and provide almost zero sustainable nutrition. meat (ie, raising animals) is easy and sustainable. thats why "factory farming" of animals is what it is today. it works and provides real food and real nutrition to millions of people . can't do that with a 'vegetable farm'

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    one main difference between meat eating animals, and meat eating humans..
    - the animal, say the lion for example, has to go out and hunt and get lucky enough to make a kill and eat.. then he starves for a week or more until he has another successful hunt/kill
    - humans got smart and resourceful enough to actually capture the prey, fence the prey in and raise and feed they prey (ie, feed them all that crappy vegan food like grass and grains) and then breed the prey. that way they could have access to it all the time and provide food for themselves, their family and future generations day in and day out.

    in the big picture of things in the history of the world , "factory farming" is not inherently immoral (like vegans like to think) , its actually genius and the reason why the human race has thrived for thousands of years.
    if we were dependent on only plant based foods to eat for the last million years, we would of died out or at least surely not be ruling the world.. if we were too stupid to only be able to hunt and not capture and raise our prey 'farming' it we would of died out. meat eating and farming our prey has kept us thriving.


    whats easier , having a large successful garden that provides tons of food year round for your family (near impossible) , or having some land fenced in with some cattle ranging the fields and some chickens in the coop.
    guarantee you for anyone that the latter is much more doable, easy, sustainable, and provides a ton more food and nutrition to feed a family year round no matter the weather...
    gardens are a pain in the ass and provide almost zero sustainable nutrition. meat (ie, raising animals) is easy and sustainable. thats why "factory farming" of animals is what it is today. it works and provides real food and real nutrition to millions of people . can't do that with a 'vegetable farm'
    From an evolutionary stand point. Having a protein and fat rich diet from animal sources is what branched us off from gorillas, chimps and the other great apes. It provided enough energy for the human brain to evolve and developed into what it is today. Without animal meats, we would have never evolved into modern humans.

    A simple look at the human gut and our fermentation capacity is something like only 14% where as a cow or rabbit is 70%. We evolved as true omnivores with an emphasis on meat as the main energy source. There is a massive body of evidence to back that up. If you took out fire and cooking out of the equation. Humans would derive almost zero energy out of resistant starched sources like tubers and roots. Which is often more nutritious than the leafy or stalk matter. So in essence, cooking and only cooking is the main factor in humans being able to get calories out of plant matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    Humans are animals, and cows only eat grain 30-120 days before they are harvested. Unless you have them completely grass fed and finished or do another protocol. Which is not typically different than above in the US beef supply.

    FYI all cows are grass fed.
    Of course we are animals, but what your saying is they hunt and kill so why can't we? You could use that same logic with other traits of an animal, some animals eat other animals of the same species but that doesn’t mean we should eat other humans? If your against cannibalism then your logic is inconsistent.

    And again they NEED to hunt to survive, if I was stranded on an island and there was nothing to eat but animals that I needed to hunt then I'd be left with no choice..

    When I say grass fed, I'm talking organically raised eating grass from the ground, space to walk and socialise, a place to live out their life despite it being shortened for human consumption..

    Cattle fattened in feedlots are fed small amounts of hay supplemented with grain, soy and other ingredients in order to increase the energy density of the diet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    one main difference between meat eating animals, and meat eating humans..
    - the animal, say the lion for example, has to go out and hunt and get lucky enough to make a kill and eat.. then he starves for a week or more until he has another successful hunt/kill
    - humans got smart and resourceful enough to actually capture the prey, fence the prey in and raise and feed they prey (ie, feed them all that crappy vegan food like grass and grains) and then breed the prey. that way they could have access to it all the time and provide food for themselves, their family and future generations day in and day out.

    in the big picture of things in the history of the world , "factory farming" is not inherently immoral (like vegans like to think) , its actually genius and the reason why the human race has thrived for thousands of years.
    if we were dependent on only plant based foods to eat for the last million years, we would of died out or at least surely not be ruling the world.. if we were too stupid to only be able to hunt and not capture and raise our prey 'farming' it we would of died out. meat eating and farming our prey has kept us thriving.


    whats easier , having a large successful garden that provides tons of food year round for your family (near impossible) , or having some land fenced in with some cattle ranging the fields and some chickens in the coop.
    guarantee you for anyone that the latter is much more doable, easy, sustainable, and provides a ton more food and nutrition to feed a family year round no matter the weather...
    gardens are a pain in the ass and provide almost zero sustainable nutrition. meat (ie, raising animals) is easy and sustainable. thats why "factory farming" of animals is what it is today. it works and provides real food and real nutrition to millions of people . can't do that with a 'vegetable farm'
    As I can understand your point of view ,

    And since the beginning of man and women as they hunted for food,

    The way animals are treated in society is completely immoral and disgusting.
    I understand the whole food chain concept and all that jazz
    But we as humans have a brain where we can be sense able on how we feed the world.

    I've watched some seriously distrubing videos on how animals are treated and yo if we treated each other like that we'd be in prison for abuse 40 times over.
    And the sad thing is it doesn't have to be that way.
    You guys can eat what you want because I'm not that guy to preach but yo ,
    We can all agree animals are treated like a means to an end and not a living breathing emotional creature.

    I can go on for days as to how I feel and think ( friendly debating is welcome ) but I don't want to sound like that vegan that tries to change people lol.

    All I ask for is people to be open to understanding that humans are fucking a disgusting race.
    We have the ability to use a rational think before you act understanding where as animals don't necessarily carry out that feature.

    I can get into the whole hunting animals as a sport topic as well but hey, one thing at a time lol.

    Being on the topic , this guy is definitely not natural and I think it's retarded how people have to lie about it
    The "rock" is an example ... It's like we know ... Stfu lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Of course we are animals, but what your saying is they hunt and kill so why can't we? You could use that same logic with other traits of an animal, some animals eat other animals of the same species but that doesn’t mean we should eat other humans? If your against cannibalism then your logic is inconsistent.

    And again they NEED to hunt to survive, if I was stranded on an island and there was nothing to eat but animals that I needed to hunt then I'd be left with no choice..

    When I say grass fed, I'm talking organically raised eating grass from the ground, space to walk and socialise, a place to live out their life despite it being shortened for human consumption..

    Cattle fattened in feedlots are fed small amounts of hay supplemented with grain, soy and other ingredients in order to increase the energy density of the diet.
    What boggles my mind is people who say animals are not being tortured ?

    I'd ask anyone to be put in a room the size of their dick and live there 24/7 and ask how they feel after just a day ?

    I would suspect not very happy lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    one main difference between meat eating animals, and meat eating humans..
    - the animal, say the lion for example, has to go out and hunt and get lucky enough to make a kill and eat.. then he starves for a week or more until he has another successful hunt/kill
    - humans got smart and resourceful enough to actually capture the prey, fence the prey in and raise and feed they prey (ie, feed them all that crappy vegan food like grass and grains) and then breed the prey. that way they could have access to it all the time and provide food for themselves, their family and future generations day in and day out.

    **Lions eat meat, this completely true. We have observed this phenomenon first-hand and can verify that it is in fact, a fact. It is also totally irrelevant to the argument at hand. Marshaling the claim that lions and other non-human animals eat meat as a defense of meat-eating among human beings is a classic example of the Naturalistic Fallacy, which is the erroneous assumption that anything that occurs in nature is therefore morally justifiable. This is of course stupid.

    In biological terms, a lion is a predator and committed carnivore who has no choice but to hunt prey animals and eat them. If he does not, he will quickly perish. This is simply not the case with Homo sapiens. You are not a lion and what applies to the lion with regard to sustenance does not apply to you. And what applies to you in terms of morality does not apply to the lion.

    Human beings are moral agents, whereas lions (so far as we can tell) are not and that, more than anything else, is the difference that makes the difference.

    Your argument is invalid. Yes we got smart but it is not justifiable when we have other options, it's not a necessity. And its destroying our planet**


    in the big picture of things in the history of the world , "factory farming" is not inherently immoral (like vegans like to think) , its actually genius and the reason why the human race has thrived for thousands of years.
    if we were dependent on only plant based foods to eat for the last million years, we would of died out or at least surely not be ruling the world.. if we were too stupid to only be able to hunt and not capture and raise our prey 'farming' it we would of died out. meat eating and farming our prey has kept us thriving.

    **Well it is immoral, how can you say locking an animal in a cage, force feeding it and injecting it with hormones for 12 months to then cut its head off is moral? That’s not moral.

    I couldn’t agree more, if we depended on plant based foods when humans where in a position of survival, yes we would not be here, again it comes does to necessity... back then we NEEDED to do it to survive. We no longer need to kill animals to thrive and survive.. and I would say it is not genius seeing the impact its having on the planet, if anything it’s the opposite of genius in this day and age...

    It is impossible for any rational person to intelligently deny the negative ecological fallout of industrial farming. The arguments are sound and incontrovertible: three quarters of the US's/UK's nitrous oxide comes from meat agriculture; pigs and cattle excrete almost three times as much waste nitrogen than humans globally!! Land the size of seven football fields (often precious forested areas) is razed every minute to create room for farmed animals; 40 percent of all grain produced worldwide goes to feed livestock, not humans. The list of insults to the environment goes on and on and on.**


    whats easier , having a large successful garden that provides tons of food year round for your family (near impossible) , or having some land fenced in with some cattle ranging the fields and some chickens in the coop.
    guarantee you for anyone that the latter is much more doable, easy, sustainable, and provides a ton more food and nutrition to feed a family year round no matter the weather...
    gardens are a pain in the ass and provide almost zero sustainable nutrition. meat (ie, raising animals) is easy and sustainable. thats why "factory farming" of animals is what it is today. it works and provides real food and real nutrition to millions of people . can't do that with a 'vegetable farm

    ** But again, who has the time to have a large garden to grow their veggies, practically no one.. do you raise your own food? I doubt it. You go to the shops and buy it...

    What's real food? Are vegetables, fruit, legumes, beans etc... not real food? I've been thriving on a plant based diet for a long time with zero issues at all! I've just trained, my post workout meal was rice, beans and tofu, 100 carb, 30 fat and 50 protein.. Im full, satisfied and my digestion is incredible and im certainly not lacking in any nutrients!**


    ^^^^^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT View Post
    The way animals are treated in society is completely immoral and disgusting.

    I've watched some seriously distrubing videos on how animals are treated
    the thing is we can't paint with a broad brush and say "mankind'' in general treats animals this way (I know I don't , in fact as far as I know everyone I know personally treats animals with more care then they do humans).

    the way "some people" treat animals is disgusting . I agree.. I also agree the way humans treat other humans is just as equal or more disgusting.
    I've seen more movies with humans doing grossly disgusting things to other humans then I have seen them do to animals (in fact people pay big bucks to be entertained by the mutilation of humans .. horror movies are big sellers).

    so , "some people" get off on the idea of humans mutilating other humans, and some people get off on the mis treatment of animals .
    but, I personally don't know many of either one of these types of people . they are obviously out there , but I surely wouldn't paint the world with that broad of a brush and assume that most of society is that way (just because most of us eat meat by our very nature)



    most people don't realize this 'vegan debate' topic has been going on for thousands of years .. plenty of examples of the debate can be found in the Bible (it was such a hot topic back then that people were getting murdered over it.. the apostle Paul went as far as considered the vegan zealots a synagogue of satan.. and the vegans considered Paul a pagan for condoning the eating of meat).

    well heck, at least we aren't stoning each other over the topic like we were back then
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    From an evolutionary stand point. Having a protein and fat rich diet from animal sources is what branched us off from gorillas, chimps and the other great apes. It provided enough energy for the human brain to evolve and developed into what it is today. Without animal meats, we would have never evolved into modern humans.

    A simple look at the human gut and our fermentation capacity is something like only 14% where as a cow or rabbit is 70%. We evolved as true omnivores with an emphasis on meat as the main energy source. There is a massive body of evidence to back that up. If you took out fire and cooking out of the equation. Humans would derive almost zero energy out of resistant starched sources like tubers and roots. Which is often more nutritious than the leafy or stalk matter. So in essence, cooking and only cooking is the main factor in humans being able to get calories out of plant matter.
    Couldn’t agree more, but again... Are we supposed to "honor" our ancestors by eating meat or something? What kind of sentimental bullshit is that? It's not even an argument, it's just incoherent nonsense. There are plenty of other protein and far rich foods that don’t require the slaughter of an innocent being. It is no longer a necessity, we do not need meat to survive!

    We have evolved physically to be capable of digesting both plants and animals as a matter of survival. Yet study after study show that plant based diets are objectively better for humans.

    And we have evolved intellectually to a point we can understand the impact our modern diets have on ourselves, non-humans and the planet.

    Not acknowledging this will actually stunt human development if there is no planet for humans to inhabit rather than just hypothetically stunt human development based on pseudo science.

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    Having grown up and still around all types of farming. Your guys picture of what goes on 99% of the time is flat out wrong. Sure there are bad farms and farmers out there. 95% of US beef still comes from the family farmer. Having worked in a feed lot, I can tell you exactly what goes on and what most don’t know is. Those feed lots have USDA inspectors on site all the time and are inspected heavily. I respect that you think eating animals is wrong or cruel, but I won’t let you paint an inaccurate picture of what really happens day in and day out.

    Even now, a large percentage of farmers with “finish,” off their own cattle. Meaning they don’t go to a feed lot, they go from the farm to a USDA inspected harvesting plant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    **Lions eat meat, this completely true. We have observed this phenomenon first-hand and can verify that it is in fact, a fact. It is also totally irrelevant to the argument at hand. Marshaling the claim that lions and other non-human animals eat meat as a defense of meat-eating among human beings is a classic example of the Naturalistic Fallacy, which is the erroneous assumption that anything that occurs in nature is therefore morally justifiable. This is of course stupid.
    I never compared lions eating meat as justification to why humans can eat meat ..thats ridiculous. in fact humans don't have to eat meat at all.
    if you look at what I said , I only compared MEAT eating animals , to MEAT eating humans . and made the point that the meat eating humans have better resourceful skills then the lion and thus sustains its species more easily. if the lion was as smart and resourceful as humans, it too would probably 'farm raise' animals so it didn't have to hunt to eat.
    thats my only point . nothing at all to do with justification on eating meat or not. theres absolutely no need to justify why humans eat meat or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Couldn’t agree more, but again... Are we supposed to "honor" our ancestors by eating meat or something? What kind of sentimental bullshit is that? It's not even an argument, it's just incoherent nonsense. There are plenty of other protein and far rich foods that don’t require the slaughter of an innocent being. It is no longer a necessity, we do not need meat to survive!

    We have evolved physically to be capable of digesting both plants and animals as a matter of survival. Yet study after study show that plant based diets are objectively better for humans.

    And we have evolved intellectually to a point we can understand the impact our modern diets have on ourselves, non-humans and the planet.

    Not acknowledging this will actually stunt human development if there is no planet for humans to inhabit rather than just hypothetically stunt human development based on pseudo science.
    I would say the body of evidence in the literature does not support that assertation.
    “If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    the thing is we can't paint with a broad brush and say "mankind'' in general treats animals this way (I know I don't , in fact as far as I know everyone I know personally treats animals with more care then they do humans).

    the way "some people" treat animals is disgusting . I agree.. I also agree the way humans treat other humans is just as equal or more disgusting.
    I've seen more movies with humans doing grossly disgusting things to other humans then I have seen them do to animals (in fact people pay big bucks to be entertained by the mutilation of humans .. horror movies are big sellers).

    so , "some people" get off on the idea of humans mutilating other humans, and some people get off on the mis treatment of animals .
    but, I personally don't know many of either one of these types of people . they are obviously out there , but I surely wouldn't paint the world with that broad of a brush and assume that most of society is that way (just because most of us eat meat by our very nature)



    most people don't realize this 'vegan debate' topic has been going on for thousands of years .. plenty of examples of the debate can be found in the Bible (it was such a hot topic back then that people were getting murdered over it.. the apostle Paul went as far as considered the vegan zealots a synagogue of satan.. and the vegans considered Paul a pagan for condoning the eating of meat).

    well heck, at least we aren't stoning each other over the topic like we were back then
    I can't really debate you on that lol ... Pretty legitimate answer there

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    the thing is we can't paint with a broad brush and say "mankind'' in general treats animals this way (I know I don't , in fact as far as I know everyone I know personally treats animals with more care then they do humans).

    the way "some people" treat animals is disgusting . I agree.. I also agree the way humans treat other humans is just as equal or more disgusting.
    I've seen more movies with humans doing grossly disgusting things to other humans then I have seen them do to animals (in fact people pay big bucks to be entertained by the mutilation of humans .. horror movies are big sellers).

    so , "some people" get off on the idea of humans mutilating other humans, and some people get off on the mis treatment of animals .
    but, I personally don't know many of either one of these types of people . they are obviously out there , but I surely wouldn't paint the world with that broad of a brush and assume that most of society is that way (just because most of us eat meat by our very nature)



    most people don't realize this 'vegan debate' topic has been going on for thousands of years .. plenty of examples of the debate can be found in the Bible (it was such a hot topic back then that people were getting murdered over it.. the apostle Paul went as far as considered the vegan zealots a synagogue of satan.. and the vegans considered Paul a pagan for condoning the eating of meat).

    well heck, at least we aren't stoning each other over the topic like we were back then
    Your right, humans treat humans like shit. Some of the stuff I've seen is brutal, but on a scale we slaughter 56 billion land animals per year (we go into the trillions if we include sea)... FUCK. There's 7.6 billion humans here, we murder practically NO humans in a horrific way compared to that. Its incomparable.

    And again looking at these numbers, just from the numbers you can imagine the impact that’s having on the planet. Jesus 7.6 billion humans and 56 billion land animals KILLLED for our consumption...

    Yeah it's been going on for years this debate, but its only recently its surfaced due to social media and people are making more conscious choices because of it!

    Its good we can talk about it though, it's important and its fun as well.. Gets us all thinking!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    we do not need meat to survive! .
    if you were to magically snap your fingers and take away every possibility of mankind to eat meat and utilize animal products (dairy, eggs, etc) this very moment.. within a years time half the population or more would be dead. it would be worse then a zombie apocalypse your non animal consuming utopia if you had your wish instantly would result in the death of millions and billions of innocent people .
    but hey , at least the earth would be flourishing with a bunch more stupid ass cows and chickens eh lets kill off most the women and children and let the cows and chickens thrive

    mankind got to where it is by using animal products to sustain our lives .. its a ridiculous thought to think we would of or could survive without that. we wouldn't even be here without that

    edit - obviously this post is just me giving you a hard time and busting your balls a bit , I'm sure you know that though
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-09-2019 at 03:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    I would say the body of evidence in the literature does not support that assertation.
    Run some research, plenty of studies carried out by reputable researchers such as the american journal of medicine, European Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Journal of the American Heart Association.. To name a few... all of which carried out within the last 8 years. I can source you at least 10 studies none of which are observational covering various aspects of the diet if you want them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Your right, humans treat humans like shit. Some of the stuff I've seen is brutal, but on a scale we slaughter 56 billion land animals per year (we go into the trillions if we include sea)... FUCK. There's 7.6 billion humans here, we murder practically NO humans in a horrific way compared to that. Its incomparable.
    you ever seen a close up filming of an abortion ? theres about 50 million abortions around the world per year.. thats pretty F'd up too (worse then cutting an animals throat) . and heck at least with the animal we get to sustain life with it ,, when you rip a human baby into pieces just cause you 'chose' to , it doesn't really do much for sustaining of life (at least butchering a single cow will feed a family of 4 for weeks)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I never compared lions eating meat as justification to why humans can eat meat ..thats ridiculous. in fact humans don't have to eat meat at all.
    if you look at what I said , I only compared MEAT eating animals , to MEAT eating humans . and made the point that the meat eating humans have better resourceful skills then the lion and thus sustains its species more easily. if the lion was as smart and resourceful as humans, it too would probably 'farm raise' animals so it didn't have to hunt to eat.
    thats my only point . nothing at all to do with justification on eating meat or not. theres absolutely no need to justify why humans eat meat or not
    Apologies I miss read, yes it certainly would.. but that still does not make it moral, my argument will always be morality and ethics. Of course we should have justification for taking a life of a fellow being, what's your justification?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    Having grown up and still around all types of farming. Your guys picture of what goes on 99% of the time is flat out wrong. Sure there are bad farms and farmers out there. 95% of US beef still comes from the family farmer. Having worked in a feed lot, I can tell you exactly what goes on and what most don’t know is. Those feed lots have USDA inspectors on site all the time and are inspected heavily. I respect that you think eating animals is wrong or cruel, but I won’t let you paint an inaccurate picture of what really happens day in and day out.

    Even now, a large percentage of farmers with “finish,” off their own cattle. Meaning they don’t go to a feed lot, they go from the farm to a USDA inspected harvesting plant.
    And I respect what you are saying and respect you as a person , you can't speak for the rest.
    The way our government is operated is a pure joke.
    Cutting corners in the us is basically a normal which is why everyone looks at us like we are a joke looking from the outside .

    For Christ sakes, look who is president.

    If you think people operate by the book ? C'mon brother .

    I'm not saying everyone but I can say I'm sure tons either pay these inspectors off , know someone or simply are told to cut corners to keep production up to par.
    I'm not saying where you are operates this way but we live in the u.s. ... Everywhere is surrounded by greed and we don't usually get there playing by the rules.

    We can go back and forth and i don't mind as I love hearing what others have to say as we are all brothers here
    So I ask for respect and open minded thoughts on all matters as that's how we can all come together and live and love life all together .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    . Yet study after study show that plant based diets are objectively better for humans.
    the thing is , the leading cause of death among vegans is heart disease and cancer.
    your still just as sick and going to die just like the meat eater is. so you really need to dial it in and define exactly what "better" means . how is a vegan diet 'better' , when your still going to get heart disease and cancer and die from it ?
    personally , I think meat tastes 'better'. I think meat helps me perform 'better'. I think meat helps my physique be 'better' . I think meat in general is what most all high level athletes have eaten over the years to get to the top and be 'better' .

    so what is your definition of "better" in regards to a plant based diet being better for humans ? its surely not better at preventing disease and death (otherwise all you vegans wouldn't be dying of heart failure and cancer). so whats it better at ?


    edit note - if your going to ask me for "proof" of facts.. umm, a simple google search you will find the leading cause of death among Vegans is heart disease and cancer .
    thats really no surprise. heart disease gets pretty much all of us at some point or another .
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-09-2019 at 03:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    if you were to magically snap your fingers and take away every possibility of mankind to eat meat and utilize animal products (dairy, eggs, etc) this very moment.. within a years time half the population or more would be dead. it would be worse then a zombie apocalypse your non animal consuming utopia if you had your wish instantly would result in the death of millions and billions of innocent people .
    but hey , at least the earth would be flourishing with a bunch more stupid ass cows and chickens eh lets kill off most the women and children and let the cows and chickens thrive

    mankind got to where it is by using animal products to sustain our lives .. its a ridiculous thought to think we would of or could survive without that. we wouldn't even be here without that

    edit - obviously this post is just me giving you a hard time and busting your balls a bit , I'm sure you know that though

    Where's your evidence to back up your claim of the apocalypse?

    Why would it result in the death of billions, gotta back up your claim mannnn??

    Also I wouldn’t wish everyone to instantly stop eating meat, Jesus.. we would be left with 56 billion land animals lol. It’s a gradual process, as people stop eating meat over time = less consumption = less animals to produce and so on and so forth... It will balance out over time.

    Also have you considered the fact that we are looking into growing meat in labs due to the unsustainability of our current processes... It's just a matter of time, and hey that lab grown genetically modified meat I am sure will be the best damn meat you have ever tried.. torture free!!

    Haha, I know man! It's fun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    the thing is , the leading cause of death among vegans is heart disease and cancer.
    your still just as sick and going to die just like the meat eater is. so you really need to dial it in and define exactly what "better" means . how is a vegan diet 'better' , when your still going to get heart disease and cancer and die from it ?
    personally , I think meat tastes 'better'. I think meat helps me perform 'better'. I think meat helps my physique be 'better' . I think meat in general is what most all high level athletes have eaten over the years to get to the top and be 'better' .

    so what is your definition of "better" in regards to a plant based diet being better for humans ? its surely not better at preventing disease and death (otherwise all you vegans wouldn't be dying of heart failure and cancer). so whats it better at ?
    Would love to see the study for this, and not a study funded by the meat and dairy industry!! I want to see a study comparing meat eaters and vegans.. I would put my life on the line to confidently say that the vegans live longer, healthier and are less likely to get heart disease and cancer compared to meat eaters.

    Vegans weigh less, have lower cholesterol, blood pressure and rates of type 2 diabetes. They have a 30 per cent lower risk of heart disease and lower cancer rates (of course we can still get it, damn a bunch of junk food is vegan). Most cases of heart disease, type 2 diabetes and a third of cancers can be avoided by changing to a healthier whole food diet, increasing physical activity and stopping smoking so there's other factors to weigh in as well... some vegans smoke, drink tons of alcohol and live on Oreos..

    Edit: i'm going to bed, but keep them coming.. ill getcha back tomorrow
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    my argument will always be morality and ethics. Of course we should have justification for taking a life of a fellow being, what's your justification?
    by asking that question your assuming that I have or do "take the life of a fellow being" and that I should "justify" doing so -

    definitions -
    - "fellow being" - if you refer to someone as a fellow being, you are emphasizing that you and they are human beings and have things in common.
    the Collins Dictionary

    - "justification" - an acceptable reason for doing something : something that justifies an act or way of behaving.
    Webster Dictionary

    I've never taken the life of a fellow being , and have no need to justify and act I've never done.


    if my eating a can of Tuna , in your world view , is equal to the above .. then thats pretty darn weird brother


    now, if you want me to justify my act of eating a can of Tuna. thats a different question all together

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Would love to see the study for this, and not a study funded by the meat and dairy industry!! I want to see a study comparing meat eaters and vegans.. I would put my life on the line to confidently say that the vegans live longer, healthier and are less likely to get heart disease and cancer compared to meat eaters.

    Vegans weigh less, have lower cholesterol, blood pressure and rates of type 2 diabetes. They have a 30 per cent lower risk of heart disease and lower cancer rates (of course we can still get it, damn a bunch of junk food is vegan). Most cases of heart disease, type 2 diabetes and a third of cancers can be avoided by changing to a healthier whole food diet, increasing physical activity and stopping smoking so there's other factors to weigh in as well... some vegans smoke, drink tons of alcohol and live on Oreos..

    Edit: i'm going to bed, but keep them coming.. ill getcha back tomorrow

    Beer and French Fries are Vegan ! I'm gong to live longer eating that then my lean cut chicken salad ?

    either way . we are all going to die of heart disease or cancer unless we get hit by a bus before that can happen (vegan or meat eater don't matter)

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