New Guy From TX

Good morning gentelmen.

I've been lurking and reading for a while now and it seems to me that the wealth of knowledge on this site is amazing.

A little background info on me....39 yo, 6', was about 255 now down to about 240. Had been feeling like crap, no libido and extremely tired all of the time so wife made me go to the dr. AS you can guess, I was diagnosed with low t. Doc put me on test cyp at 200mg eow and after second round of bw, switched me to 100mg ew. I am scheduled for bw next week 5/25. I am going to get my results from the previous bw and will post up asap.

Now for the not so good....the twins are constantly in pain and I have noticed considerable shrinkage. I have been reading a lot about hCG and I am intrigued and a little confused. Any guidance at this point would be much appreciated. I know that until I post up bw results, it is impossible to do much.

Thanks,
JD

Welcome

May wanna ask your dr. about hcg. Exogenous test will make the boys shrivel, many dr's prescribe hcg along with the test

I will discuss this with him when I go in for my follow up after my bw on the 25th. I have printed off Dr Crislers info on hcg to give to him. He seems to be pretty open in actually working with me instead of just saying "Do this and don't question why". I have a call into them to get my results from the last 2 bw panels that were ran.

I forgot to mention that I also had high cholesterol and was put on Crestor as well. I am working on getting my activity level back up and losing weight. So far by just better controlling my diet I am down about 20 lbs.

Did you read the sticky at the top of the forum re hCG?

Understand HPTA suppression.

When you get your next BW done make sure to get a complete Thyroid panel done as well...not just TSH.

Read the sticky on what BW panels you need after the initial pull.

Good stuff in the stickies!

Sign the HIPAA form at your lab and get your BW copies ALL the time. Read the sticky here on HCG also if you haven't already and definitely get started with it. Your reading will elaborate on why. Post up your original BW with all ranges so we can evaluate it. Particularly LH/FSH, thyroid panels, Total, free and bio-T, shbg, etc. Hopefully your pre-TRT BW is complete so you have good baselines. Be nice to know exactly what caused your low T. Primary/Secondary? Have you cycled in the past, used pro-hormones, etc?

200mg per week is a high end trt dosage and I imagine your doc saw your numbers and titrated you back accordingly. Good BW and follow up BW is in the finding a TRT physician sticky. Paruse it and make sure you get what you need. Be sure you get a sensitive E2 panel done as knowing where that level is is important as an AI may be needed at some point. Add vit D also as most are low in the U.S.

Welcome to the forum and we look forward to helping you! Stick around as others will chime in!

Welcome JDW, good move on putting you on a weekly shot in stead of biweekly. how about aromatase inhibitors (AI's) to control estrogen? for cholesterol try taking fish oil and maybe 80% cocoa dark chocolate about 30 grams a day, morning cardio will help greatly. also recommend taking vitamin D.

Welcome bro. When you get enough posts I'll PM you about your Doc. I am in TX and looking for a solid TRT Doc to go to! Hope you find your answers here mate.

Ok, I just got my bw results faxed to me....

11/28/2011
TEST...............NORMAL...............ABNORMAL.. ..............REF RANGE
WBC...................8.1......................... ..............................4.6-10.2
RBC....................5.21....................... ..............................4.04-6.13
HGB..................16.5......................... ..............................13.5-18.1
HCT..................46.4......................... ..............................37.7-53.7
MCV..................89.1......................... ..............................80.0-97.0
MCH............................................... 31.7 H.......................27.0-31.2
MCHC.............................................. 35.6 H.......................31.8-35.4
RDW............................................... .11.1 L.......................11.6-14.8
PLT...................269......................... ................................150-450
NEUTROPHILS ....57.6.......................................... ...............37.0-80.0
LYMPHOCYTES....31.9............................... .........................10.0-50.0
MONOCYTES.......6.8............................... ..........................0.0-12.0
EOS...................2.8......................... ................................0.0-7.0
BASO.................0.9.......................... ...............................0.0-2.5
TEST SERUM...................................144....... .....................348-1199
FREE TEST......................................5.4..... ........................8.7-25.1

3/5/2012
WBC..................8.9.......................... ...............................4.6-10.2
RBC...................5.49........................ ...............................4.04-6.13
HGB...................16.7........................ ...............................13.5-18.1
HCT...................47.2........................ ...............................37.7-53.7
MCV...................86.0........................ ...............................80.0-97.0
MCH...................30.5........................ ...............................27.0-31.2
MCHC............................................35 .5 H.........................31.8-35.4
RDW..............................................1 0.9 L.........................11.6-14.8
PLT...................255......................... ................................150-450
NEUTROPHILS.....59.4.............................. ...........................37.0-80.0
LYMPHOCYTES....30.8............................... ..........................10.0-50.0
MONOCYTES.......8.3............................... ...........................0.0-12.0
EOS...................0.5......................... ................................0.0-7.0
BASO.................1.0.......................... ................................0.0-2.5
TEST SERUM...................................228....... ......................340-1197
FREE TEST......................................6.4..... ........................8.7-25.1

You're missing a lot for us to help make any assessment as to why your Testosterone serum levels are so low.

Without question, you are clinically low and need help.

But why?

I don't see LH/FSH, E2, SHBG...I could go on.

You need a more thorough blood work done...see the sticky on what you should have gotten tested for.

obviously your diet helped a little, however you are still pretty much shutdown. not enough blood work to determine whats going on!

Welcome aboard !

I will definately ask to get the complete work up this time.

I left these off of the last post.....
3/5/2012
AST....24.....17-59
ALT....51.....21-72

Everything else that was tested is cholesterol numbers....


Question....If I were to start hcg, would it help to reverse the shrinkage and ease the pain? I don't plan on doing anything until after my next bw.

^^^^Yes.

Please read the sticky at the top of the forum re hCG!

I have read it, a couple of times. I have been reading everything that I can find trying to prepare for my next vist. I guess I'm just looking for more re-assurance. You know, typical noob stuff. I knew going in that this would be a lifetime decision but I think it never really hit home until I started looking like a 5 yo and now I'm very self concious about it. The pain I can deal with and my wife says it don't matter to her but this isn't about her, it's about me and how I feel. Am I wrong or does this seem to be common amongst the guys that have already dealt with it?

If I start to ramble, feel free to tell me to "STFU NOOB!!"

JD

Having functioning and healthy testicles are very important from a physiological perspective as they do many many things for a man and when they don't function anymore bad things can happen as noted in the sticky.

Is short, you need hCG...how's that for re-assurance;)

Are your primary or secondary. Something wrong to have only 144 test level. Did you rule out pituitary tumor?

I'm not sure. What I am sure of is I wish I would have found this site before my first injection. I have alot of questions to ask on my next visit. I really appreciate all the help and apologize for any redundant/silly questions. As I said before, this just all kinda hit me a few weeks ago as to how uninformed I am.

JD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdw999

I'm not sure. What I am sure of is I wish I would have found this site before my first injection. I have alot of questions to ask on my next visit. I really appreciate all the help and apologize for any redundant/silly questions. As I said before, this just all kinda hit me a few weeks ago as to how uninformed I am.

JD

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Boy, how far this forum has come the past couple of years...great to see we are of help.

You are not asking silly or redundant questions; that's why we are here to help...this isn't easy stuff to understand overnight...takes time like anything else.

One suggestion; start studying about TRT in men. Go get Dr. Abraham Morgentaler's book "Testosterone for Life" it's a great starting point.

Become a member of Life Extension Foundation. If you go to Dr. Crisler's website allthingsmale.com you can get a free subscription to their monthly magazine plus www.lef.org has a ton great research studies and articles on TRT for men and women.

The educated man is a wise man!

Glade you're a part of our community!

Op go the the LEF site like GD said. Read this months current issue and the article on Testosterone. Good read and will open your eyes a bit. Here's a recent thread about it that will take you to it as well:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ne-Controversy

Hey guys, thanks for being so understanding and helpful. I have started to gather tons of info to take to my dr and will call him this week and request the full bw panels as suggested. I'm guessing that he may not be aware of all the advan***ents that have taken place in the last couple of years since he is a small town doc and not an endo. My hope is that he will be as eager to learn as I am and will be receptive to let me use some of the knowledge that I have gained to help get my levels in check. After all, it is MY life we are talking about.

I have also ordered the book, joined lef and all things male as suggested.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Thanks again!!

JD

This board has been great and on the cutting edge for more than a couple of years. As we collectively share our experiences with each other it just continues to get better. New additions to those that are willing to help only make it better.

Good to have another Texan on here, welcome to the best site

Had blood drawn again this morning. I had called and told them what extra tests that I wanted. The nurse caught me in the lab waiting area and took me to the blood lady and had me tell her what I wanted. She said that my insurance may not cover it but I told them thats ok, I'll pay out of pocket if I have to. I will post the results as soon as I have them.

Thanks for the welcomes guys, glad to be here.

BW results from 5/25/12

LH...............<0.2 L..........1.7-8.6
FSH.............<0.2 L..........1.5-12.4
Test Serum.....507...........348-1197
Free Test.......16.3...........8.7-25.1
Estradiol.........35.5...........7.6-42.6

Test Cyp 100mg EW

Input?

Thanks,
JD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdw999

BW results from 5/25/12

LH...............<0.2 L..........1.7-8.6
FSH.............<0.2 L..........1.5-12.4
Test Serum.....507...........348-1197
Free Test.......16.3...........8.7-25.1
Estradiol.........35.5...........7.6-42.6

Test Cyp 100mg EW

Input?

Thanks,
JD

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Not surprised the LH is low now with being on exogenous test. The T looks a lot better, important question is how do you feel? E2 is a little high for most men, it may be a good time to ask about an AI. I'd suggest starting with a low dose, such as .25 mg e3d for a month and retest. Around 15-20 for me I have no water retention, itchy nipples, and have excellent erection quality. Above or below that my body goest to hell fast. The AI would likely raise your Free and Total T a little as well. Did they run SHBG by chance? I would suggest you post everylab everytime, gives us all a better view of what you have going on. How did the Dr react to the questions on hcg? It does more than just keep the boys at size and pain free, helps with mood/well being and libido for most as well. And likely more body processes that are requlated by LH levels.

Have not had a chance to actually talk to the Dr. I got a phone call from his tech stating that everything is "good", so I had them fax me a copy of the bw. This is all that was tested...

JD

I got a chance to speak with my doc by phone yesterday afternoon. He did not seem overly concerned with my estradiol level and down played the hcg questions. He wants to continue with just the 100mg cyp ew and re-test in 6 months.

Did you tell your Doctor that you are HPTA suppressed and your testicles will begin to atrophy?

Did you read the sticky on why you need hCG and did you explain this to him?

When your testes begin to hurt and your sack gets really tight and painful I can see you having a totally different conversation with him...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gdevine

Did you tell your Doctor that you are HPTA suppressed and your testicles will begin to atrophy?

Did you read the sticky on why you need hCG and did you explain this to him?

When your testes begin to hurt and your sack gets really tight and painful I can see you having a totally different conversation with him...

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I did mention the pain and atrophy. I'm thinking that he may not be up on the more recent research dealing with hCG or maybe it was a Friday afternoon thing.
I'll give him a call again next week and see if maybe he will be more willing to discuss the possibility of adding hCG and an AI to my protocol. If not, I guess it'll be time to search for a new TRT doc, which would really suck cause I like this guy but I like pain free, normal balls and well being better.

JD

hey jdw, glad to have you on board! sounds like you are really trying to get dialed in, my Doc did give me a script for HCG but I would have to rob a bank to pay for it. I cant pm you yet but there are sources for Quality HCG out there, this may not sit well with all but is an option that has worked for me so far, took a few weeks for the boys to come back and the wife does like the return of size. the smartest thing you can do is pay attention to our members body of experience and this will all work out,good luck and keep us posted!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keep fightin

hey jdw, glad to have you on board! sounds like you are really trying to get dialed in, my Doc did give me a script for HCG but I would have to rob a bank to pay for it. I cant pm you yet but there are sources for Quality HCG out there, this may not sit well with all but is an option that has worked for me so far, took a few weeks for the boys to come back and the wife does like the return of size. the smartest thing you can do is pay attention to our members body of experience and this will all work out,good luck and keep us posted!

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I have been doing a little research just in case that is my only option. From what I have read most insurance will not cover hCG for this purpose. I am a little concerned about getting quality stuff from an online "pharmacy". Also, the possibility of seizure since this it would be a recurring order for a long time to come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdw999

I have been doing a little research just in case that is my only option. From what I have read most insurance will not cover hCG for this purpose. I am a little concerned about getting quality stuff from an online "pharmacy". Also, the possibility of seizure since this it would be a recurring order for a long time to come.

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Talk to your insurance company. I am on BCBS and they do cover it as its used to treat hypogonadism, it talks about it in the flyer in the package. You may have to fight a bit for it with them, but it would be worth it to get good pharma grade hcg and not have to worry about the source or availability.

Well, I have heard back from my doc and it's not what I wanted to hear. He said that he has never had other patients report testicular pain before and to stop/reverse the atrophy, that I would have to stop TRT. As I figured, he is not familiar with the use of hCG and would rather refer me to a urologist. I would like to do something sooner than later. Any thoughts, guys?

Go to Crislers site and print out his paper on HCG. Take it to your doctor.

Kel, I have copied and pasted the email exchange between my doc and myself.

JD, the testicular shrinkage would resolve if you were to stop using the testosterone and they would likely return to normal size. I have had no other patients report testicular pain. The nipple issues are also a result of testosterone supplementation. As far as the estradio levels and use of hCG, I have no experience in using the drug. If you wish to consider that I think you would be best served by seeing a urologist. Please let me know and I will refer you to either Dr ****** or a urologist of your choosing.
Michael


:

Mike,

It really hit me a couple of months ago about this low testosterone and testosterone replacement therapy being something that I'll have to deal with for the rest of my life. I realized that I had no clue what any of this meant, so I have spent a lot of time researching and reading anything and everything that I could find on the subject. Please bear with me as I am still trying to learn as much as I can about his issue.

Right now, my main concern is the way I feel, both mentally and physically. With that said, I feel good but I have noticed considerable shrinkage in my testicles, which you told me would happen, with the atrophy comes almost constant pain as well. My scrotum is usually pulled up tight against my body. The only time that it seems "normal" is right after a very hot shower and does not stay that way for long. I have read that many men on TRT are also taking hCG to help off set the testicular atrophy and keep the testicles from completely shrinking away and being in pain. What are your thoughts on this?

One other thing that I have noticed to be different since starting the injections is that my nipples seem to be hard all of the time. I noticed on my last blood work that my estradiol was near the higher end of the normal range. Could that have an effect?

I have gotten a lot of information from Dr. Crisler's web site www.allthingsmale.com, Life Extension Magazine www.lef.org, as well as others and a few forums dedicated to hormone replacement.

I hope I have not overstepped by sending this email, if I have, please feel free to correct me.

Please respond at your convenience.

Thanks,
JD


A few other things that, may or may not be relavent, my doc is a PA, the urologist he would refer me to is the only one in this town. There are no endo's here. the nearest endo or other urologist would be 70 miles away. I think I'm going to call the urologist's office and ask some questions. I am hoping that he may be a little more up to speed on TRT since he is realatively young (38).

JD

I have spoken with the urologists office and scheduled a consultation, it won't be until July 23. I will be taking alot of information with me this time, I'll let y'all know how it goes.

JD

You've spoken with them JD? What did they say? You need to ask them if they will treat you along Crisler's protocols: T, HCG & AI if needed. Otherwise, don't waste your time. If so, you need to get that appt bumped up if possible!

Kel, The problem that I'm having is that this is a small town (Pop: 19000) in a very rural area. That is why I was really hoping my doc would be more open to working with me, instead of just refering me to a specialist. That is also why the appt is over a month out. Too many people and not enough good dr's.

Now I'm torn....If I had a reliable source for hCG, do I wait 4 weeks for the doc appt and hope that he sees it my way or do I go ahead and self administer?

Man, I thought this was gonna be as easy as just sticking a needle in my ass!!