AR variation?!?!???????????????

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05-27-2013, 02:08 PM
ilovelamp

AR variation?!?!???????????????

We know what the androgen receptor does, as it is pretty self explanatory, and we know where it is, the X chromosome..but is there only one version of this receptor throughout the entire population? I understand that if there were multiple versions of the AR, there would also exist multiple versions of testosterone. Not crazy different, maybe just differing by a few hydrogens or carbons. Before anyone completely dismisses this, consider the fact that the AR was a part of evolution. Nothing is exactly fixed in evolution, and who is to say that different versions of the AR didn't develop throughout different populations? Of course this would mean that the coding for testosterone would have to match up with what the AR will accept. This would have crazy reprecussions for TRT though, because if there were some rare ARs out there they would lack the ability to utilize any of the synthetic testosterone they were using because its not what the AR wants, YET tests come back showing high T levels so it must just be you. Idk..

THE ONLY REASON I'm even thinking like this involves my TRT experience. At a fairly young age, 18, I started up androgel as a result of secondary hypogonadism that didn't resolve itself. I gained 40 pounds on the androgel, and felt amazing. Now I could just assume that the androgel was responsible for all the benefits I received, but I was also using HCG, which jump started my natty production a bit. Lets go ahead and say that IF my body did have some weird allele that resulted in a different AR, it would not respond to the androgel, but WOULD, however, respond to the HCG because its the testosterone my body makes to match the AR

This wouldn't be a big deal at all if something didn't stop working. About a year into treatment, I noticed I was losing muscle and tone. I felt crappier too, and libido dropped. Yeah, gels stop working, but my T levels were still good. Like..900 plus. E2 was in check, so then you start to wonder..what could account for this? WELL HCG has the ability to desensitize the leydig cells from what I understand, and with my prolonged HCG use, this may have happened.

SO we've got good looking T levels, but me feeling like I'm still hypogonadal. I've been on test cyp now for a year now, and still feeling the same way, like its not even working. I mean..yes this is ****ing crazy, but couldn't such a variation of the AR exist? I mean, if there were, there would be no problem for the male to reproduce and pass down the gene, assuming he never needed TRT. HIS T works for him. Also, its inherited from the X, so it comes from the mother anyway. I mean, I haven't ever seen any literature on this..but maybe they have it a little wrong?

I have done some experimentation with clomid and nolva prior to TRT. I achieved total T levels around 800, and good Free T as well. NOW, in a perfect world, the machines used to measure and analyze these levels would look for C19H28O2 EXACTLY, but we live in a imperfect world, and maybe the machine sees C23H28O2 and calls it testosterone..Therefore, it would seem that the testosterone I'm producing is perfectly normal, when in reality, its different, but the machine has been programmed to look for TESOSTERONE and not whatever it is I'm producing..

I don't know guys..I think I'm ****ing crazy but can anyone please disprove me so I can stop mind ****ing myself with it? Someone who's got a good grasp on genetics and why this couldn't be?

Or someone who understands the accuracy of testing for hormones?

THanks guys
05-27-2013, 10:05 PM
Bonaparte

Double post.
05-27-2013, 10:08 PM
Bonaparte

Testosterone and androgen receptors are the same among all mammals. If the chemical composition of testosterone were off by a single atom, it would be some other AAS...or an inert hormone. There is no scientific evidence to suggest what you're proposing, so you're much better off researching plausible issues.

And no, a blood test will only pick up testosterone in it's pure form as such, no other related compounds.
05-27-2013, 10:15 PM
austinite

Funny how this ended up here. If you're not "Pantalones", I'm curious why you would pass this off as if it speaks about you and your history? If you are him, I apologize.
05-28-2013, 01:50 AM
phaedo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

[...]

NOW, in a perfect world, the machines used to measure and analyze these levels would look for C19H28O2 EXACTLY, but we live in a imperfect world, and maybe the machine sees C23H28O2 and calls it testosterone..Therefore, it would seem that the testosterone I'm producing is perfectly normal, when in reality, its different, but the machine has been programmed to look for TESOSTERONE and not whatever it is I'm producing..

[...]

lol!!!
05-28-2013, 02:11 AM
trikydik

If your test levels are normal, and you are still take the HCG for your hypogonadism... then there is something else wrong with you. Could be pituatary issue, could be a lot of things. Go see a dr. and possible an endo dr.
05-31-2013, 06:45 PM
ilovelamp

Anyone think its possible I'm GH deficient as well?
06-01-2013, 12:53 PM
JohnnyVegas

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

Anyone think its possible I'm GH deficient as well?

It doesn't matter what we think. There is a test for that. Go get it.

The problem seems to be that everything you are talking about is based on how you "feel." There a hundred things that contribute to how we feel but we often fall into the trap of thinking it is controlled entirely by the one hormone we use and the one hormone it converts to. So many people try and solve how they feel with their testosterone and E2 levels like those are the only two variables and it just isn't true.

You have expanded your thinking to HGH but your list is still pretty limited. I may have missed this in your posts (I am on my phone so I can't go back through the thread without losing everything I have typed), but have you gone to a decent (non-TRT) doctor with your symptoms?
06-02-2013, 07:44 PM
ilovelamp

I've been to a gastroenterologist and a doc of internal med. The GI doc ruled out celiac, liver/pancreas issues, bacterial infection via stool sample, did an ultrasound, took some BW and told me that he doesn't think what is going on is GI related. I don't have any of the obvious go to signs of celiac or chrons, and no real weight loss.
The internal med doc ruled out HIV, low T and told me I was for the most part healthy.
Iron came back normal, but I'd like to get B12, vit D and folate checked just to 100 % rule out malabsorption of any sort. I'm still experiencing gas and cramps, but that could just be a normal imbalance.

Here's the deal though..almost all of what I'm dealing with (besides the fatigue) is physical! Two years ago I was pretty huge as far as TRT is concerned. I mean I'd put on muscle without really trying and when I did start lifting frequently and heavy again I just blew up. I'm talking thick neck, nice V, traps just crazy huge, and cut as shit. Fastforward to a year and a half ago, and up to today I weigh the exact same! HOWEVER, you would think I'd lost 30 pounds by looking at me. I've reverted back to almost a prepubertal looking body attached to a mans head/face, and even my face has wasted a bit. I just look weaker younger, and have lost a lot of strength. I know theres something going on, and that's why I look to the anabolic hormones for answers..if I'm lacking either in any way, that would explain the change in composition..IDK..worth getting GH tested then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

It doesn't matter what we think. There is a test for that. Go get it.

The problem seems to be that everything you are talking about is based on how you "feel." There a hundred things that contribute to how we feel but we often fall into the trap of thinking it is controlled entirely by the one hormone we use and the one hormone it converts to. So many people try and solve how they feel with their testosterone and E2 levels like those are the only two variables and it just isn't true.

You have expanded your thinking to HGH but your list is still pretty limited. I may have missed this in your posts (I am on my phone so I can't go back through the thread without losing everything I have typed), but have you gone to a decent (non-TRT) doctor with your symptoms?
06-02-2013, 07:47 PM
ilovelamp

Thoeretically, would one struggle to put on mass if they had sufficient T levels, but low GH/IGF-1? Same question as if they had good GH levels but low T? I know T helps to raise IGF-1, but if GH is low I don't know how much the T will bring it up. I know both contribute signficantly..and respectively..
06-02-2013, 08:01 PM
100%

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

Thoeretically, would one struggle to put on mass if they had sufficient T levels, but low GH/IGF-1? Same question as if they had good GH levels but low T? I know T helps to raise IGF-1, but if GH is low I don't know how much the T will bring it up. I know both contribute signficantly..and respectively..

Adonis complex.. If you are the exact same weight. It is highly unlikely that you lost the exact same amount of muscle as you gained in fat.
06-02-2013, 08:12 PM
ilovelamp

5 Attachment(s)

Attachment 139750 Attachment 139751 Attachment 139752 Attachment 139753 Attachment 139754

Healthy and feeling good two years ago
06-02-2013, 08:16 PM
ilovelamp

4 Attachment(s)

and now.Attachment 139755 Attachment 139756 Attachment 139757.Attachment 139758
06-02-2013, 08:24 PM
100%

You look a little leaner two years ago. There is really not that big of a difference 30 pounds no way maybe 5 to 10 pound composition change at the most.
06-02-2013, 08:38 PM
ilovelamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by 100%

You look a little leaner two years ago. There is really not that big of a difference 30 pounds no way maybe 5 to 10 pound composition change at the most.

Its easier to tell in person from multiple angles, but I can't deny the strength loss. I know I'm lacking something, and its really starting to mess with me.
06-02-2013, 08:48 PM
bringndaheat

I would have to agree wth 100% . U were leaner two years ago. Hell I was leaner two years ago. Has your diet and training stayed the same? But truthfully u just look a couple years older and ur training and diet is lacking. Do u drink often? I have in the past and it had many of the effects u mentioned. Good luck on ur journey!
06-02-2013, 08:53 PM
100%

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

Its easier to tell in person from multiple angles, but I can't deny the strength loss. I know I'm lacking something, and its really starting to mess with me.

You are feeling weak.. Your mind is translating that to what you are seeing when you look in the mirror. You have confirmed your blood work is good. Now get your diet in check hit the weights like a mad man. We all have work a little harder as we age regardless of test level. You really don't look bad.
06-02-2013, 09:07 PM
ilovelamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by 100%

You are feeling weak.. Your mind is translating that to what you are seeing when you look in the mirror. You have confirmed your blood work is good. Now get your diet in check hit the weights like a mad man. We all have work a little harder as we age regardless of test level. You really don't look bad.

I'm 19 lol..:/ I should be in my prime, and it feels like regardless of what I do now, I just can't put it on.
06-02-2013, 09:26 PM
Tron3219

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

I'm 19 lol..:/ I should be in my prime, and it feels like regardless of what I do now, I just can't put it on.

Ur prime is not 19. That's honestly probably before your prime. Ur still a kid. No offense. Keep at it, wait till ur 22-24 and you'll start to "fill out". But you probably look better then 90% of people ur age. Other 10% being genetic freaks.
06-02-2013, 09:36 PM
bringndaheat

Bro ur only 19. My biggest gains in strength came between 28 and 35. You've got plenty of time be patient. You are not even close to realizing ur full potential.
06-02-2013, 09:44 PM
ilovelamp

Why is it that the body waits that long until it decides to really pack it on though? I mean, if T levels are the same, or even lower when you're in your late 20s, why is it that the mass comes on then?
06-02-2013, 10:01 PM
Tron3219

It's more of an accumulation kinda thing. Accumulation of tissue, knowledge, will, priority, maturity.
06-02-2013, 10:32 PM
bringndaheat

^^^^ ditto
You've got to do ths for years brother. Years and years of work and dedication. It's not for the timid or the weak. If it was easy everyone would look like a Greek God at 18 when ur T levels r flying. Step up ur game get in the race and don't make excuses. There is a price to pay to look the way u want! And I don't mean AAS. I mean hard work, pain, trail and error! If I had it to do over again I would have my eyes in the nutrition section. The stuff you will learn in that forum will put you freaking light years ahead of your peers! Now learn and train and train and learn.