TRT and Gyno

[SmashIt]

I've been on TRT for sometime now...has it been 5 years already? Anyhow, I started with an HRT Company, they took great care of me but it became to expensive to continue.

My treatment was:
250mgs Test Cyp 1W(Sunday)
1mg Anastrozole 2W (Sunday / Weds)

I quit for about a year and a half. Then I found that my new insurance would cover it!

Off to the Endo I ran!

I had a lengthy conversation with my Endo who seemed impressed that I knew anything at all (I'm not saying I know a lot).

Endo treatment :
250mgs Test Cyp EoW(Sunday)

When I asked about an AI, I was told that if an AI was needed then I needed to lower my dosage.

Ok, follow the doctors advice...

After a couple of months I realized one of my nipples was overly sensitive. I make a note to talk to the endo about it...I forget. A few months later, I realize it is still overly sensitive and there is a lump under it now. It isn't noticeable to look at, but its there.

I finally call endo and he says, lower your dosage. That takes me to about 187.5mgs EoW...

He's a specialist...he knows what he's doing...

A few months go by, I ride the hormonal roller coaster of high and low spikes...both nipples now sensitive...

Time to do my own research, docs don't know sh1t.

I find these forums!!!

About a month ago, I changed my treatment to:
100mgs Test Cyp 2wk (Sun / Weds)
250mgs hcg 2wk (Tues / Sat)
12.5mgs Liquid Stane 2D (am / pm)

In the past two weeks, I added some peptides as well.

Needless to say, I feel pretty damn good. Like my old self!

Now, about this lump...???

I read Austinites post about SERMs so I'm thinking Tamoxifen : 40mg daily for once week. Then 20mg daily until gynecomastia is reversed.

I have Liquid Tamox. The real question is: As I'm never on PCT, is it ok to take with everything else?

Summary of everything else:
100mgs Test Cyp 2wk
250mgs hcg 2wk
12.5mgs Liquid Stane 2Day
100mgs CJC-1295 w/o DaC 2day
100mgs Ipamorellin 2day

Thanks!

[kelkel]

You realized your doctor was clueless didn't you? Time to find another.
How is your BW on your current protocol? As 200 is a high end dose which the majority do not need and the cause of your gyno.
Nolva or Ralox is fine. Ralox is slightly statistically better for gyno. Research Andractim DHT Gel as well.
There's no reason to use Letro. Crushing your Estrogen will not help.

[17chester6]

You realized your doctor was clueless didn't you? Time to find another.
How is your BW on your current protocol? As 200 is a high end dose which the majority do not need and the cause of your gyno.
Nolva or Ralox is fine. Ralox is slightly statistically better for gyno. Research Andractim DHT Gel as well.
There's no reason to use Letro. Crushing your Estrogen will not help.

While I understand how and why a SERM will treat gynecomastia , when you say "crushing (I guess you mean lowering?) your estrogen will not help" what do you mean? Would not lowering estrogen levels with an AI prevent gyno and help to reverse (albeit perhaps slowly) the existing gyno? So why can't an AI be used to treat as well as prevent gyno?

[johnk271]

While I understand how and why a SERM will treat gynecomastia, when you say "crushing (I guess you mean lowering?) your estrogen will not help" what do you mean? Would not lowering estrogen levels with an AI prevent gyno and help to reverse (albeit perhaps slowly) the existing gyno? So why can't an AI be used to treat as well as prevent gyno?

If your estrogen is high, then yes LOWERING it will help your gyno SLIGHTLY, but not totally get rid of it(at least it didnt for me...)

What kelkel is saying is there's no need for letrozole because it will CRUSH your estrogen levels and make you feel absolutely terrible.

If I were you I would get some aromasin or arimidex for estrogen control and then try some raloxifene for the gyno.

[kelkel]

While I understand how and why a SERM will treat gynecomastia, when you say "crushing (I guess you mean lowering?) your estrogen will not help" what do you mean? Would not lowering estrogen levels with an AI prevent gyno and help to reverse (albeit perhaps slowly) the existing gyno? So why can't an AI be used to treat as well as prevent gyno?

If your estrogen is high, then yes LOWERING it will help your gyno SLIGHTLY, but not totally get rid of it(at least it didnt for me...)

What kelkel is saying is there's no need for letrozole because it will CRUSH your estrogen levels and make you feel absolutely terrible.

If I were you I would get some aromasin or arimidex for estrogen control and then try some raloxifene for the gyno.

^^ Thank you.

It goes without saying to control your estrogen. An AI isn't really treating gyno, it's preventing its onset.

Read this thread: Do I have Gynecomastia? If you're asking this question, read this thread.

[SmashIt]

BW :

First let me say, I'm definitely over due so I need to schedule that soon.

Before Endo prescribed he did the initial blood work. Only figure I have on hand is Testosterone which was 255.

The most recent test (when endo had be doing 200mgs of Cyp (not 250 typo)) was : FT 2.57, Test 859 which he felt was too high...

I am starting to use Nolva (Liquid Tamox) for the gyno. And will continue to use Liquid Stane for my AI.

[jimmyinkedup]

BW :

First let me say, I'm definitely over due so I need to schedule that soon.

Before Endo prescribed he did the initial blood work. Only figure I have on hand is Testosterone which was 255.

The most recent test (when endo had be doing 200mgs of Cyp (not 250 typo)) was : FT 2.57, Test 859 which he felt was too high...

I am starting to use Nolva (Liquid Tamox) for the gyno. And will continue to use Liquid Stane for my AI.

Excellent protocol. Stane to manage e2, tomox to treat gyno. Its relatively early, you have a decent shot of taking care of it. Keep us posted.

[SmashIt]

Almost finished with my tomox, it will be gone in the next few days. I can't tell if there is a change in the size of the lump or not. It was never visible (thankfully). Without noticing a difference from one round, should I bother with ordering a second?

Thoughts?

[SEOINAGE]

Wait..... Did you ever do blood work to check E2 levels? I could understand someone thinking they are getting gyno and immediately trying the tamoxifen , but they should still get blood work and see what is going on, I mean if the tamox doesn't work it could be a prolactin issue, although not as likely with what you are taking. Usually you can run tamox immediately and if no improvements it might not be estrogen related.

Blood work!

The doctor should have checked that E2 as soon as there was an issue, my first doctor refused to check E2, so I got tests on my own, I had nipple sensitivity, but my E2 was on the low end of the scale. And surprisingly I had gyno before I started trt, and as I have lost weight it almost isn't even noticeable anymore.

You could be overreacting but you need a doctor that is going to take care of you properly, that if you have a concern will look into it and get what is needed to see what is going on.

[SmashIt]

I finally had blood work completed!
Creatine ratio 21
Test serum 1393
Free test 55.2
% free test 3.95
Igf-1 76
Estradiol 16

*Tamox worked and lump is gone BTW

[SmashIt]

Finally have my BW results:
Testosterone , Serum 1393
Testosterone, Free 55.02
% Free 3.95
IGF-1 76
Estradiol, Sensative 16
*BUN/Creatine Ratio 21 - high

I'm unsure what the creatine ratio being high could indicate but my overall numbers look good to me.

*Tamox resolved my lump by the way

[jomamma007]

Might wanna lower the dose, can run into some problems down the road. 50mg 2x week would probably put you around 700~ without an ai.
Your free test is double the range so it wont hurt.

Are you on an ai? Estradiol is a little low. How are you feeling? Optimal is 20-30.

Might wanna look into lowering your testosterone dosage and cutting out the ai completely.