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10 weeks in on TRT so far. 200 mg Cypionate once a week. Just started HCG 2 weeks ago 500 IU 2 times a week on 2 days preceding next injection.
I've read on the forum here where most are getting fat loss with their testosterone increase. 10 weeks in and I haven't experienced any fat loss in the mid section yet that I notice. Scale still reads the same. Is it still to early in the treatment to expect this?
Feeling much better, but still get the occasional fatigue.
Hi Donzi and welcome to the forum.
10 weeks really is not much. Remember as well that it's not a miracle drug and won't do much on it's own. Restoring healthy / youthful hormone levels will definitly help over time but there has to be an effort with nutrition and training as well. The subjective benefits of HRT can take effect at different time frames for guys, from a couple months to 6 months or more. We are all different. Just be patient and keep living a healthy lifestyle and the improvements will sneak up on you.
If you don't mind me asking, what exactly put you on HRT?
How old are you, height, weight, approx body fat % etc.
Have you had any recent blood work to check your levels yet to see how you're doing?
Are you taking anything to control estrogen?
Seldom do guys really need 200 mgs per week as it's high end TRT which can make it a bit more difficult to control estrogen. Couple that with that amount of HCG (again high end) and you may have some issues arising.
Perfect post!Quote:
Originally Posted by kelkel
don,
As usual difficult following Kel when answering as he typically always nails it, he did here as well however, I would differ maybe about thev10 weeks.... although it's really very little time, you should of seen significant results by now.
I would do a very honest assessment of your diet and training. If you need help there are many here in the nutrition center as well as the traing section.
Ten weeks is plenty of time to see results regardless of what level you are at, must be a reason.... also, as mentioned you better check your estradiol as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark99
I think we're more on the same page than not bull. The op's starting point may be one of the main issues. I've seen guys make progress in less than that amount of time and others take multiples of months. Our bodies will fight to maintain their "status Quo" especially when it comes to fat loss. It's why so many diets fail as the person just gives up to soon. Eventually their metabolism will change if disciplined enough to stick it out! Just so many factors involved in this crap!
And Merry Xmas Bull!
If you don't mind me asking, what exactly put you on HRT?
How old are you, height, weight, approx body fat % etc.
Have you had any recent blood work to check your levels yet to see how you're doing?
Are you taking anything to control estrogen?
Kel,
I am 55 yrs old with my weight at 215 right now and I am 6'. Body fat % is high I believe around 25%. I carry all my weight in my chest and abdomen.
What got me to the TRT doctor was the last few years I have been extremely fatigued and weight gain. A year ago I was at 195 and shot up to 215 within a year without excessive diet changes. Not to mention the loss of libido. I ran into a friend (15 yrs younger) and he mentioned he was on TRT.
So yes my TRT doctor did a full blood analysis. The results turned up the low T as well as thyroid not producing much.
Yes the doctor put me on anastrozole at 1 mg twice weekly to control estrogen. However I found that was cause me to bloat and retain water at an alarming rate. After reading on here about this, I cut my dose to 1/2 mg twice weekly and that seems to have helped. I told the doctor this and he said we will check and see my numbers on the next blood tests. I have a full blood work set up in 3 weeks to see where I'm at. They will also do a full blood draw at the same time to get my RBC count down.
As for the HCG. I just started that 2 weeks ago. I asked the doctor for the script because of the nut shrinkage.
I lift 3 times a week. Not as much as I use to do, (back injury 10 yrs ago) and my diet is not the best I know. I am no where near the 2 grams of protein per body weight you bodybuilders need. But at 215 with a 35" waist, I don't feel I've let myself go either. I've always been a "hard gainer" and have plateaued years ago. However I have now regained my strength with TRT and seeing small gains in muscle. The reason for the first question was I was hoping for fat loss too. Hopefully that will come too as I keep up the lifting routine. Diet I will have to really work hard on. My wife is a wonderful cook and believes in the old fashioned 4 course meals with all the fixings....
Cholesterol total 235 H
HDL 32 L
LDL 178 H
Triglycerides 126
TSH 5.65 H
T4 total 7.7
T4 free 0.9
T3 free 2.9
T3 total 103
DHEA 107
FSH 3.2
LH 2.4
TEST TOTAL 322
PROLACTIN 9.8
ESTRADIOL 24
PREGNENOLONE <5 L
VITAMIN D 31 L
So I'm on 200 mg Test once a week. I now take 500 IU twice a week HCG. Doctor also has me on .25 of levothyroxine daily for thyroid. Also on DAILY, Vitamin D 5000iu, Vitamin B complex, Fish Oil (1000mg 3 tabs a day), Pregnenolone 50mg, DHEA 25 mg. and slo niacin. Cutting back the fats and sugars and got off the statins for cholesterol hoping the niacin will suffice.
Well, hypothyroidism or sub-clinical hypo can cause hypogonadism. Hopefully your doc explained this to you as well. That said, at your age it's quite normal to need HRT and I'm glad you seem to have a doctor that's at least "trying" to do it correctly, arguably other than that whopper of an adex dose! Regarding that dosage of test, imho it's always better to start at a lower dose and titrate up to avoid side effects than to do the opposite. You'll have to wait for your first set of BW to see how things are going.
Some guys do well on a once per week protocol, but keep in mind (and maybe advise your doctor) that the half life of test cyp is really only about 5 days or so metabolism dependent. Take a look at this graph to illustrate what I mean:
http://www.ironmagazine.com/wp-conte...2012/02/12.jpg
Now, you may be fine once per week but many guys don't feel good toward the end of the week due to the roller coaster effect. This graph also shows why he put you on HCG the two days prior to your injection. It's to bump up your T levels when they're declining at weeks end. Many guys now will do lesser volume injections twice per week for several reasons. You maintain more stable serum T levels and the smaller injections will incur less T to E conversion and lessen and sometimes eliminate the need for estrogen inhibitors as well as having to give blood frequently to lessen RBC's. Normally less testosterone is needed as well on twice per week protocols. Be sure you pull blood work on injection day, but before your injection so you're at trough level. Also be sure you test for Free Test as total really means nothing.
Re HCG, know that larger doses of it (500 is about the max you want to use) will contribute more to estrogen production as well and thus, more issues to deal with. Read this regarding HCG:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378070/
That's a nice supplement protocol you have! Be sure you test your Vit D (25-OHD) level and see where you're at. It's fat soluble to you don't want to be above the top but near it is just fine. Take it with a large meal for best absorption. Make sure you buy micronized Preg and DHEA for best absorption. Otherwise most won't make it through the first pass of your liver. Slo-Niacin is great! I take it as well and did a thread detailing it and a few other supps on my cholesterol some time ago. I'll try to find it and insert it here.
http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...xperiment.html
In the Finding A Doc sticky thread is a list of blood work to obtain both pre and post initiation of TRT. Be sure you monitor your PSA and DHT as well.
Keep doing what you're doing and the gains will come as long as nutrition is in check. Take advantage of having youthful hormone levels again as it can do wonders for many aspects of your life. If your doc will write you ask for low dose Cialis as well at either 5 or 10 mgs per day. That and Vit D are two of the healthiest things a man can take. Re Cialis I'm not even referring to libido or erections, it's just a very healthy addition to any male.
Let us know how your blood work comes out on this thread please! Hope all this helps you!
Welcome to the forum
Hi all, hope you don't mind me putting in my 2 cents. First off, welcome to the forum Donzi, this forum and TRT are 2 of the most amazing things that have happened to me in recent memory.
I started 15 months ago at the age of 57. My dosage is at 150/wk, but split into two 75 mg. doses. I personally chose to not use HCG and have never felt any detriment while on TRT.
I started around 15-16% bf. I'd say I started to see some results at 2 months, but they were gradual/subtle. With that said, I train more often than yourself and with exception to wine in the evening, my diet is very clean.
I'm thinking your bf is going to have to drop considerably with diet in order for you to notice the subtle changes. Remember it is a gradual process & that the testosterone is not a magic potion. The test will only accentuate the work you put into your training & diet.
The very best of luck to you - once again welcome to an amazing forum.
Fat loss is going to come from diet not aas directly.
Right Back :bbbump:
Disagree - in my case at least, TRT shaved off 3% of my bf in 6 months without any change in diet or exercise (and I wasn't doing any cardio). Not bad for a 57 year old with a metabolism slower than a snail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Batmanreturns
Technically doesn't TRT just restore our Testosterone levels back to normal levels. The side effects of this are feeling less fatigued, less brain fog and improved libido.
You may gain weight when your Testosterone is low because you feel more tired. When you're tired people tend to skip the gym, eat unhealthy foods (Sugar and Bad Carbs) and feel more stressed which raises cortisol levels and hinders muscle growth.
When your Testosterone level is back to normal you feel less fatigued. Thereby you go to the gym more often, you choose healthier foods and you feel less stressed.
IMO getting your Testosterone level back to normal does not automatically lead to weight loss.
Optimizing test levels can and will result in fat loss. Everything simply works better:
Read this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4154787/
Thanks for the replies everyone... I am feeling much better with my test restored to better levels. And I'm loving that my strength has increased as well which is motivating me to work out more and harder. I have seen small results already in this short of time and I agree that if I work harder on my diet, fat loss results should come easier.
My BW is scheduled in 3 weeks and I'll post back where my levels are. BW is scheduled on injection day in the morning and before that days injection.
Great Donzi! Be sure to update it on this thread instead of starting a new one. Love to see you report back every little while and update us on your progress. It you put the effort in it can be life changing! Remember to take a look at the Finding A doc sticky thread at the top of this forum. Try to get the second set of blood work in it if possible.
Best of luck!
Reasons this could have happened:Quote:
Originally Posted by Proximal
1) You were genetically peaked with mass entering the cycle and your higher protein count started packing on lean mass which resulted in a higher metallic rate. The extra 10 grams of fat you are now burning a day with an extra 10lbs of muscle tissue + inconsistent fat content led you to slowly drop body fat.
2) Same as above but less to do with an increase in muscle mass and everything to do with underrating fat based off of what your body was burning daily. Not total calories, specifically fat content in both examples.
3) Inaccurate measurements, although you would probably notice being 5lbs of fat leaner give or take.
4) Andropause lol :2jk:
Best of luck Donzi - looking forward to seeing your steady progress!
This is all that is really relevant to what you have posted. 200mg weekly is a lot higher than most doctors will prescribe. There are lots of fat guys with high testosterone levels (lots of fat guys doing full steroid cycles).Quote:
Originally Posted by Donzi4me
You need to get your exercise and diet in order. At 55, and carrying excess body fat, regular cardio exercise is not only beneficial to your body fat levels, but it might save your life. Cardiovascular health is important. Run, bike, stairclimber, elliptical, 4-5 times a week, go hiking in a place with hills on the weekend.
Your diet is important. if you know it is not the best, then change it.
At 200 mg a week, your testosterone levels can no longer offer you an excuse.
Anecdotally, for me, when I found my test levels were rock bottom a number of years ago and started TRT I did not experience any fat loss until I looked at diet. In fact, the small "boost" which was a normalization really, of the test increased my appetite a little which didn't help. Diet was everything and I hear that all the time here. I finally started to listen.
Your HDL is low and cardio will help bring that up which can reduce your cardiac risk factors. For me I found it important to track heart rate, but then again, I have been a runner for years and years and used that to fine tune training for trail marathons, etc. But it does help imho and keeps me from training at too high a HR which results in me being ravenous if I do 30-45 min mainly in an anaerobic heart rate range. Just food for thought.
I also did some low dose GH with my TRT and that did make a difference at some point in bf, esp with diet.
Read TrailRunner's post, slowly, at least three times, then develop a plan and put it into action. Diet. Diet. Diet. You can pretty much predict your fat levels by the amount of carbohydrates you are consuming.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailRunAZ
Donzi,
excellent info already to absorb with what the members have posted.
Dr Kel is a sage in his wisdom and replies easy to understand and absorb,
If I may suggest, as you have poor thyroid results you would be best to
keep them monitored, your dosage of levothyroxine is low end and might
lower your tsh temporarily, in mentioning this I am on the same idealism as
Kel that it might have been better to pursue the cure through your thyroid,
but you have started trt now, and your hpta will have been altered, not saying
it cant be restarted, but you have entered hrt.
Im am also concerned that you monitor your BP and keep an eye on it,
as Hypothyroidism can cause elevated BP along with trt, as your body fat
is high, not that it matters when your T4 levels are subnormal. elevated
BP might not be a factor now, but I am sure it might become one if your
T4 is not kept at healthy levels, doctors think that if your in range they are
good, but the low end is not particulary healthy, and you shoud try and maintain them in midrange,
although high will contribute to fat loss as well, but at long term will contribute
to muscle waisting.
Did your doctor check your BP when he discovered high TSH?
Got my BW results today.... For those who asked my BP.. It was 124/72.... I am down 5 lbs. too.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelkel
Base ... Recent
TSH 5.65 .. 2.80
T4 free 0.9 .. 1.3
T3 free 2.9 .. 3.2
Testosterone-Total 322 .. 855
Free Test 32 ..(didn't test)...
CBC:
White BCC 5.9 .. 7.2
Red BCC 5.25 .. 5.46
Hemoglobin 15.0 .. 15.9
Hematocrit 45.8 .. 48.0
MCV 87.3 .. 87.9
RDW 15.6 .. 14.7
Platelet ct 205 .. 220
DHEA 107 .. 224
Sex hormone binding
Globulin 33 .. 22
Estradiol 24 .. 20