Reducing Cholesterol Experiment

[kelkel]

Guys,

I thought some may find this interesting. I struggle with cholesterol issues due to heredity and have been on a non-statin for a while. The last two sets of BW I requested a VAP Cholesterol profile which is a more detailed breakdown. A similar profile called an NMR Lipo Profile is also available. Here's a link to the the VAP Profile:

http://www.medfusion.net/templates/g.../12677/VAP.pdf


Here are some of my results from 6 months ago and this week. Left and right respectively:

6 mo ago.............................................. Current

LDL...............131........ Range......<130.......99
LDL-R............119.......................<100...... 89
Triglycerides.....76.......................<150... ... 63
Non HDL Chol..147.......................<160......113
IDL...................9...................... < 20.........7

Most interesting to me is the LDL Density Pattern which gives a scale like below:

old level
[______________*_______] [____________] [______________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good)

New level
[_____________________] [__*__________] [______________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good


Old density pattern was termed as "abnormal" which always makes you feel good. I wasn't labeled on this new one, but I'm thrilled it has improved. Naturally I immediately thought of this:

Mel Brooks' Young Frankenstein - "Whose Brain I did put in?" - YouTube


But back on topic. The changes I made were the following:

1. NAC 600mg 2-3 x per day
2. Slo-Niacin 750mg at bedtime
3. Red Yeast Rice 1200mg 2-3 times per day
4. Eliminated all sugar. Basically just meant no sugar in my coffee.

NAC:
Dose-related increase of HDL-cholester... [Pharmacol Res. 1993 Oct-Nov] - PubMed - NCBI

RYR:
Powdered red yeast rice and plant stanols and s... [J Diet Suppl. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Niacin:
Niacin and cholesterol: role in cardiovascula... [J Nutr Biochem. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI
Using Niacin to Improve Cardiovascular Health - Life Extension

Sugar:
Influence of dietary carbohydrate and f... [Curr Atheroscler Rep. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI



Anyway, just wanted to share my progress with hopes it can enlighten or encourage others with the same struggle. I encourage everyone with issues to read anything from Dr. Stephen Sinatra. Google or Youtube him. His book, "The Great Cholesterol Myth" is top notch. Crisler, btw, considers him the best in his field.

Kel

[gatornate97]

Thanks for sharing,Kel
I'm particularly interested in this given I have high BP hereditarily.
So, I did have moderately high Chol then started taking a statin, got it under control, then my last BW it started trending back. So I have been taking the NAC 600mg x1
I will take the slo niacin next.
Thanks for the protocol.

[Giggle]

That's great Kel. I've been reading about that breakdown and I was going to ask for it next time.
Nice improvement! I didn't know NAC would raise HDLs. I'm glad to hear it.

[austinite]

Awesome kelkel. Thanks for sharing the results and doses. Seems like you attacked lipids with full force using those 3 combo's. Many folks aren't familiar with the three and they most certainly do work. Great combination.

Goooooooooooo supplements! I see they added some vascularity too, oh wait.. there's no room for more on your body.

[JinNtonic]

That's awesome thanks for sharing. Mine is high I take nac and niacin. Hope they help.

[kelkel]

Shameless bump as I'm sure there are more here with cholesterol issues. Fess up.

[CaptainSuperAwesome]

Thanks!

[TraceMYD]

Good stuff Kel!

How long do you run this protocol for? Any downtime or breaks needed from any of those 3?

[bass]

thanks for sharing Kel! glad it worked for you.

[j2048b]

Guys,

I thought some may find this interesting. I struggle with cholesterol issues due to heredity and have been on a non-statin for a while. The last two sets of BW I requested a VAP Cholesterol profile which is a more detailed breakdown. A similar profile called an NMR Lipo Profile is also available. Here's a link to the the VAP Profile:

http://www.medfusion.net/templates/g.../12677/VAP.pdf


Here are some of my results from 6 months ago and this week. Left and right respectively:

6 mo ago.............................................. Current

LDL...............131........ Range......<130.......99
LDL-R............119.......................<100...... 89
Triglycerides.....76.......................<150... ... 63
Non HDL Chol..147.......................<160......113
IDL...................9...................... < 20.........7

Most interesting to me is the LDL Density Pattern which gives a scale like below:

old level
[______________*_______] [____________] [______________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good)

New level
[_____________________] [__*__________] [______________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good


Old density pattern was termed as "abnormal" which always makes you feel good. I wasn't labeled on this new one, but I'm thrilled it has improved. Naturally I immediately thought of this:

Mel Brooks' Young Frankenstein - "Whose Brain I did put in?" - YouTube


But back on topic. The changes I made were the following:

1. NAC 600mg 2-3 x per day
2. Slo-Niacin 750mg at bedtime
3. Red Yeast Rice 1200mg 2-3 times per day
4. Eliminated all sugar. Basically just meant no sugar in my coffee.

NAC:
Dose-related increase of HDL-cholester... [Pharmacol Res. 1993 Oct-Nov] - PubMed - NCBI

RYR:
Powdered red yeast rice and plant stanols and s... [J Diet Suppl. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Niacin:
Niacin and cholesterol: role in cardiovascula... [J Nutr Biochem. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI
Using Niacin to Improve Cardiovascular Health - Life Extension

Sugar:
Influence of dietary carbohydrate and f... [Curr Atheroscler Rep. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI



Anyway, just wanted to share my progress with hopes it can enlighten or encourage others with the same struggle.

Kel

u stated u were on a non statin? was it in fact the supps u listed or was it a definete doc prescribed non statin?

i request a vap everytime i go in now because my last chol level was at a 309 total and like 197 ldl, but what was odd or great i guess was that my * was all the way over on the large boyant type ldl so the doc said clean up the diet, ur ldl is boyant and fluffy and just like kittens on clouds haha, i laughed at that...

so i might have to copy ur list and give it a whirl and also clean up this dang diet yet again, sugar is my crutch...

thanks for sharing...

also a great read is :
the great cholesterol myth,

both authors have been saying for years before the fda jumped on the cholesterol bandwagon, that sugar causes high cholesterol, not the other way around, time to cut out the sugar!!

[vmons01]

My lipid profile has improved dramatically since I started TRT. I went from a total cholesterol of 248 down to 179 in 1.5 years. All other lipid related numbers moved downward as dramatically as well. I too suffer from hereditary cholesterol issues.

[kelkel]

u stated u were on a non statin? was it in fact the supps u listed or was it a definete doc prescribed non statin?

Been on the non-statin for years. Progress came about from the supps. No question about it.

i request a vap everytime i go in now because my last chol level was at a 309 total and like 197 ldl, but what was odd or great i guess was that my * was all the way over on the large boyant type ldl so the doc said clean up the diet, ur ldl is boyant and fluffy and just like kittens on clouds haha, i laughed at that...

Funny but the buoyant is the good stuff as you know.

so i might have to copy ur list and give it a whirl and also clean up this dang diet yet again, sugar is my crutch...

thanks for sharing...

also a great read is :
the great cholesterol myth,

Yep, read it by Stephen Sinatra, MD. Great book.

both authors have been saying for years before the fda jumped on the cholesterol bandwagon, that sugar causes high cholesterol, not the other way around, time to cut out the sugar!!

Absolutely agree

[j2048b]

My lipid profile has improved dramatically since I started TRT. I went from a total cholesterol of 248 down to 179 in 1.5 years. All other lipid related numbers moved downward as dramatically as well. I too suffer from hereditary cholesterol issues.

how did u do this? because since ive been on trt mine has gotten worse!

[j2048b]

kel,

i got to ask what non statin it was because my doc wanted me to go on something, and i told him no. and now that they are finally comming out and saying statins do nothing for u, it really makes me not want to get on anything but the supps...

but i have to aslo wonder because u were on it for so long, if maybe perhaps it did wrk to an extent?



do u have a good source for these supps? or did u buy them all in different plces?

thanks i need to get on these asap!

[vmons01]

how did u do this? because since ive been on trt mine has gotten worse!

Honestly, I don't know. For years my cholesterol numbers steadily climbed to a max of 248. I started TRT and the numbers just collapsed. The only other difference is the intensity of my workouts. I crossfit 5 days a week with very high intensity. I also don't eat out as much, but my diet isn't perfect by no means.

Doesn't TRT improve one's lipid profile?

[kelkel]

Honestly, I don't know. For years my cholesterol numbers steadily climbed to a max of 248. I started TRT and the numbers just collapsed. The only other difference is the intensity of my workouts. I crossfit 5 days a week with very high intensity. I also don't eat out as much, but my diet isn't perfect by no means.

Doesn't TRT improve one's lipid profile?

Not necessarily. Your cardio does though.

[kelkel]

kel,

i got to ask what non statin it was because my doc wanted me to go on something, and i told him no. and now that they are finally comming out and saying statins do nothing for u, it really makes me not want to get on anything but the supps...

but i have to aslo wonder because u were on it for so long, if maybe perhaps it did wrk to an extent?



do u have a good source for these supps? or did u buy them all in different plces?

thanks i need to get on these asap!

Welchol is the non-statin. Been on it for years but you can see what my numbers were while on it (still shitty.) It's the protocol that helped, hands down. I like NOW products from Amazon but you can get them anywhere.

[38onTRT]

Processed foods and SUGAR are the main reasons America is so Obese. The drug Companies LOVE it as they sell more statins and High BP meds.. Ditch the sugar and processed foods and change your life. The Paleo way of eating is the only way to go, IMHO.. It has changed my life along with countless others in my family/ friends circle.

Reduce your risk of heart disease and cancer by simply changing what you eat.

Dont let unhealthy foods control your life.

DO your research and get rid of the inflammation in your body. It is simply that easy!!!!

[kelkel]

Processed foods and SUGAR are the main reasons America is so Obese. The drug Companies LOVE it as they sell more statins and High BP meds.. Ditch the sugar and processed foods and change your life. The Paleo way of eating is the only way to go, IMHO.. It has changed my life along with countless others in my family/ friends circle.

Reduce your risk of heart disease and cancer by simply changing what you eat.

Dont let unhealthy foods control your life.

DO your research and get rid of the inflammation in your body. It is simply that easy!!!!

Very well said!

[kelkel]

Here's some interesting links:

https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013/feb2013_br_01.htm

Eliminate 82% of Cardiovascular Events with These 5 Principles - YouTube

Just use google, ton's of good stuff by these guys. Very enlightening to say the least.

[38onTRT]

Inflammation.

Reduce your bodies inflammation and watch your body GROW while shedding the unwanted body fat. Our bodies NEED cholesterol in order to survive. Our brains need it. Reduce the inflammation in your blood vessels to let the cholesterol flow freely through them.

High Triglycerides = High Sugar Intake INCLUDING Alcoholic beverages. The least harmful alcohol you can drink is White Tequila.

Guys its really really simple. Ditch the sugar, alcohol, dairy, Legumes(Beans) and pasta for 30 days and see what happens.

You can always have some in moderation later, however your body will hate you for it..

If you really want to take it to the next level read the book "It Starts With Food". This book will change your life. I frickin guarantee it. $9 Amazon Kindle Edition for iPad. I read the book in 2 days while working 10 hour days with a family of 4. You will not put the iPad down.

Here's some interesting links:

https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013/feb2013_br_01.htm

Eliminate 82% of Cardiovascular Events with These 5 Principles - YouTube

Just use google, ton's of good stuff by these guys. Very enlightening to say the least.

[kelkel]

I particularly liked the info about comparing triglycerides to HDL as an indicator of potential heart attacks. I grabbed right for my most recent BW.. I'm a 2. Yeah!

[j2048b]

Guys,

I thought some may find this interesting. I struggle with cholesterol issues due to heredity and have been on a non-statin for a while. The last two sets of BW I requested a VAP Cholesterol profile which is a more detailed breakdown. A similar profile called an NMR Lipo Profile is also available. Here's a link to the the VAP Profile:

http://www.medfusion.net/templates/g.../12677/VAP.pdf


Here are some of my results from 6 months ago and this week. Left and right respectively:

6 mo ago.............................................. Current

LDL...............131........ Range......<130.......99
LDL-R............119.......................<100...... 89
Triglycerides.....76.......................<150... ... 63
Non HDL Chol..147.......................<160......113
IDL...................9...................... < 20.........7

Most interesting to me is the LDL Density Pattern which gives a scale like below:

old level
[______________*_______] [____________] [______________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good)

New level
[_____________________] [__*__________] [______________________]

Pattern B..........................Pattern A/B.........Pattern A
Small, Dense LDL (bad)................................Large, buoyant LDL (good


Old density pattern was termed as "abnormal" which always makes you feel good. I wasn't labeled on this new one, but I'm thrilled it has improved. Naturally I immediately thought of this:

Mel Brooks' Young Frankenstein - "Whose Brain I did put in?" - YouTube


But back on topic. The changes I made were the following:

1. NAC 600mg 2-3 x per day
2. Slo-Niacin 750mg at bedtime
3. Red Yeast Rice 1200mg 2-3 times per day
4. Eliminated all sugar. Basically just meant no sugar in my coffee.

NAC:
Dose-related increase of HDL-cholester... [Pharmacol Res. 1993 Oct-Nov] - PubMed - NCBI

RYR:
Powdered red yeast rice and plant stanols and s... [J Diet Suppl. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Niacin:
Niacin and cholesterol: role in cardiovascula... [J Nutr Biochem. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI
Using Niacin to Improve Cardiovascular Health - Life Extension

Sugar:
Influence of dietary carbohydrate and f... [Curr Atheroscler Rep. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI



Anyway, just wanted to share my progress with hopes it can enlighten or encourage others with the same struggle.

Kel

kel,
can u give me links as to where u purchased the items in order for me to experiment with this protocal? my doc said he would ok my own experiment, anfter 3 months if my total and ldl have not gone down he will script me something as mine has been high, since 2006!! highest it got was 309 total!! lowered it to 239 total in 2-3 months just b diet alone!!

i know if i go back on the diet that helped lower it, and cut out sugar and added in the supps u mentioned it would def help!!

thanks
j

[AnabolicBoy1981]

I've done the real niacin at 1-1.5g/day even up to 3g as an experiment. My hdl was 85 when i did that lol
im usually around 70ish
Niacin is no joke. It has actually been shown to reverse arterial plaque with statins in an 8 month period, but hey maybe given enough time can do the same by itself or with red yeast rice. It also opens arteries and blood vessels. it has been shown to reduce heart damage if given immediatly after a heart attack. It absolutely will increase vascularity, but you already have to have veins and be lean, but existing veins are bigger and some smaller ones show up. I used to feel like it took a few weeks to do this, but now i feel it happens right away. Maybe because i dont avoid the flush and i slam 500 from the get go.
Other than that, pantethnic acid
Vite -e
And like 8-10 fish oils a day
thats my lil stack. Need to try the red yeast rice tho but didnt because its so similar to a statin i didnt want the muscle weakness. idk, have to read up on it

[tejaswolf]

I'm on a statin and on one for BP. One of my goals in TRT is to get off them. Holidays play hell trying to eat right but they'll be gone soon. Supplements are being added to my stocking list now.

[kelkel]

kel,
can u give me links as to where u purchased the items in order for me to experiment with this protocal? my doc said he would ok my own experiment, anfter 3 months if my total and ldl have not gone down he will script me something as mine has been high, since 2006!! highest it got was 309 total!! lowered it to 239 total in 2-3 months just b diet alone!!

i know if i go back on the diet that helped lower it, and cut out sugar and added in the supps u mentioned it would def help!!

thanks
j

I usually just use Amazon so I get them all in one shot. Remember, sugar is the devil here. Cut it out. All of it! Pick up Dr. Stephen Sinatra's book "The Cholesterol Myth" and give it a read. Dr. Crisler, one of the most renowned TRT guys told me a couple days ago that he is personal friends with Sinatra and that if he ever had an issue, chol or cardiac, that is who he would see. Impressive comment IMHO.

http://www.betternutrition.com/lower...solutions/1225

I've done the real niacin at 1-1.5g/day even up to 3g as an experiment. My hdl was 85 when i did that lol
im usually around 70ish
Niacin is no joke. It has actually been shown to reverse arterial plaque with statins in an 8 month period, but hey maybe given enough time can do the same by itself or with red yeast rice. It also opens arteries and blood vessels. it has been shown to reduce heart damage if given immediatly after a heart attack. It absolutely will increase vascularity, but you already have to have veins and be lean, but existing veins are bigger and some smaller ones show up. I used to feel like it took a few weeks to do this, but now i feel it happens right away. Maybe because i dont avoid the flush and i slam 500 from the get go.
Other than that, pantethnic acid
Vite -e
And like 8-10 fish oils a day
thats my lil stack. Need to try the red yeast rice tho but didnt because its so similar to a statin i didnt want the muscle weakness. idk, have to read up on it

Yes, it is. I personally did not experience any and suggest every few months taking some time off from RYR. It's what I'm doing anyway.

[j2048b]

I usually just use Amazon so I get them all in one shot. Remember, sugar is the devil here. Cut it out. All of it! Pick up Dr. Stephen Sinatra's book "The Cholesterol Myth" and give it a read. Dr. Crisler, one of the most renowned TRT guys told me a couple days ago that he is personal friends with Sinatra and that if he ever had an issue, chol or cardiac, that is who he would see. Impressive comment IMHO.

ok nice! i did pick up the book as an early Christmas present to my and my health!! im addicted to chewing gum thru out the day especially after meals, its almost impossible for me to dump that bit of sugar even tho i know whats in the gum is total crap, im a sugar addict! love junk food,

what is a good way to purge the body of sugar? and eventually quit eating it? elimination diet perhaps?

i did use amazon and believe it all came from vitacost except the slo niacin...

thanks!!

[Pale1]

I've battled the cholesterol problem for years. Dietary changes seem to do very little to improve my levels, but I still eat clean 90% of the time anyway. Probably Paleo 90% of the time & I NEVER eat any processed sugars. I do still eat yams, even though Paleo guidelines do not allow it, but it grows in the ground & is un-processed so I really don't think they're all that bad.

Over the years, I have slowly introduced new supplements & always get the bloodwork done after each increase so I know whether or not what I'm doing is actually working or not. This supplement is slightly pricy, but had a nice effect on my cholesterol levels:
Naturally Lower Your Cholesterol By 30 Pts. In 30 Days
I have titrated my way up to 6 caps/ day. Although it helped a lot, I still had room for improvement, so I started SLOWLY adding in niacin, 200mg's at a time. I'm now up 900 mg's niacin/ daily. This has my levels right where I want them.

Niacin users, I will tell you this: DO NOT use niacinamide! It does nothing to help lower cholesterol! Check your niacin to make sure that is not what is in it. & also get your liver values checked after each dosage increase, but give yourself at least 3 months before checking to both give the niacin time to work & to also give your liver time to adjust, b/c your liver values will get a little spikey in the short term but seem to level back off over time.

Here is the niacin I use:

Lindberg - Niacin 100 Mg 100 Tablets - Save 33%

[thisAngelBites]

I'm enjoying this whole thread as I also have a genetic propensity for lipid problems.

I've just started NAC, but this new info about niacin is fascinating, and I've never supplemented with it.

There was a comment in the thread about female libido where someone else said it increased intensity of women's orgasm, because it increases blood flow. That's a happy enough side effect, but its also got me wondering about Alzheimer's disease, because in addition to lipid problems, there is reduced blood flow in the brain in those cases. So I'm off to do some research, but thanks for the inspiring thread kelkel and other contributors!

[kelkel]

You're welcome Angel. And congrats on the promo! I appreciate what you put forth here.

[kelkel]

I've battled the cholesterol problem for years. Dietary changes seem to do very little to improve my levels, but I still eat clean 90% of the time anyway. Probably Paleo 90% of the time & I NEVER eat any processed sugars. I do still eat yams, even though Paleo guidelines do not allow it, but it grows in the ground & is un-processed so I really don't think they're all that bad.

Over the years, I have slowly introduced new supplements & always get the bloodwork done after each increase so I know whether or not what I'm doing is actually working or not. This supplement is slightly pricy, but had a nice effect on my cholesterol levels:
Naturally Lower Your Cholesterol By 30 Pts. In 30 Days
I have titrated my way up to 6 caps/ day. Although it helped a lot, I still had room for improvement, so I started SLOWLY adding in niacin, 200mg's at a time. I'm now up 900 mg's niacin/ daily. This has my levels right where I want them.

Niacin users, I will tell you this: DO NOT use niacinamide! It does nothing to help lower cholesterol! Check your niacin to make sure that is not what is in it. & also get your liver values checked after each dosage increase, but give yourself at least 3 months before checking to both give the niacin time to work & to also give your liver time to adjust, b/c your liver values will get a little spikey in the short term but seem to level back off over time.

Here is the niacin I use:

Lindberg - Niacin 100 Mg 100 Tablets - Save 33%

Did you consider "Slo-Niacin" at all Pale?

[thisAngelBites]

o

what is a good way to purge the body of sugar? and eventually quit eating it? elimination diet perhaps?

thanks!!

I quit sugar, and the least painful method for me, was to quit all grains and sugar, and to only allow myself to eat fruit. This meant that there was no horrendous sugar withdrawal period (which in the past for me has been three or four days of feeling like death with bad headaches), as whenever I was craving sugar, I had a piece of fruit (I limited myself to healthier fruits, and didn't eat banana or mango, etc., high sugar fruits). There is only so much fruit you can eat (unlike sweet junk food), and the pattern was typically one day of a *lot* of fruit, and the amount of fruit decreased each day until after a few days I wasn't craving sugar, and instead felt good eating protein and healthy fats. I then found if I had a good amount of protein or fat, I could start having small bits of very dark chocolate, and berries without triggering cravings. But I cannot eat anything sweet or grainy on its own without cravings, so I make sure I always have a decent protein source in my bag, etc.

If I ever see myself getting out of hand and having more than a small amount of sugar, I go back to no grains or sugars except fruit, and I get back to normal quickly.

We're all different, but hope that is of some help to you. The comments earlier in the thread are spot on about the relation of sugar to triglycerides and inflammation, so minimising sugar is important to me.

[thisAngelBites]

Just to be clear - I meant I cut out all forms of sugar and grains from my diet and only ate protein and healthy fat. Not that I ONLY ate fruit.

[thisAngelBites]

Did you consider "Slo-Niacin" at all Pale?

Kelkel, what's the benefit of slo niacin? I had a look but didn't see it explained in thread.

[kelkel]

Read this Angel. This sums it up nicely.

Using Niacin to Improve Cardiovascular Health - Life Extension

[thisAngelBites]

Uh oh, it was in the link! Sorry about that, but v good reading. Thanks; I'm ordering some now.

[Pale1]

....

[Pale1]

Did you consider "Slo-Niacin" at all Pale?

I did, but I decided against it after reading that it may further stress the liver.

[kelkel]

I did, but I decided against it after reading that it may further stress the liver.

Well, pretty much everything goes through the liver. Consider NAC as a daily supplement for liver support. It's an extremely healthy thing to take for many, many reasons.

[Pale1]

Well, pretty much everything goes through the liver. Consider NAC as a daily supplement for liver support. It's an extremely healthy thing to take for many, many reasons.

That was a really informative article that you linked to above Kel. & it looks like maybe you & I may both be taking the wrong approach in dosing. I'm spreading mine out, which it advises against, & you're using slo niacin, which it also advises against.

Extended-release niacin is a time-release preparation, but does not act as slowly as slow-release niacin. This makes it safer than the slow-release preparations that can cause liver side effects. Extended-release niacin also provokes fewer hot flushes than immediate-release niacin.

EDIT!!!: I see that you ARE IN FACT using one of the suggested forms of niacin. I was confusing SLO & SLOW. Not the same apparently.