Reducing Cholesterol Experiment

[GirlyGymRat]

One year. Omg. I really dislike the taste of this stuff. I drink it with the water and don't throw into a shake because ruins the taste of the shake!

[kelkel]

One year. Omg. I really dislike the taste of this stuff. I drink it with the water and don't throw into a shake because ruins the taste of the shake!

Agree, tastes horrible. I hated what it did to protein drinks as well and did it your way after a while...

[ermasta]

Be sure to get the VAP or NMR Profile run ermasta! Cut out sugar as well.

Yup, I will make sure I get that specific test ran. Not really into sweets so the only sugar I have is in my morning Coffee. I will update my BW thread once I see the doc.

BTW: I am also changing the protein drinks to Isolate, way too much cholesterol on regular whey.

[OdinsOtherSon]

Been mixing ryr with orange juice. Seems to go down easier for me that way.

[kelkel]

Yup, I will make sure I get that specific test ran. Not really into sweets so the only sugar I have is in my morning Coffee. I will update my BW thread once I see the doc..

Get off sugar in your coffee as well. That was the hardest one for me but coffee is so much better now without it.

[GirlyGymRat]

Get off sugar in your coffee as well. That was the hardest one for me but coffee is so much better now without it.

I don't drink coffee for a pleasing taste. I am all about the caffeine

[Pale1]

I've been following a pretty hard core keto diet for the last 4 months. About 80 percent fat, the rest protein & trace carbs. Absolutely no sugars of any sort. Getting blood work done later this week & very interested to see how it effects the LDL particle size (my primary reason for doing it). The popular theory seems to be that it is the blood glucose that is causing LDL to oxidize & become small particle. I should have something to report soon.

[kelkel]

Pale1 do you have a prior lipo profile to gauge results?

[Pale1]

Pale1 do you have a prior lipo profile to gauge results?

Yes I do. I'll be posting all those #'s up when I get these results. I'll give the blood sample this Thursday.

[kelkel]

Outstanding. Look forward to it.

[Pale1]

Outstanding. Look forward to it.

As a little teaser, I have previously reduced my Small LDL-P from 914 (which put me in the high risk range), down to where I got it to before starting my keto experiment which was 350 (normal range but I'd still like to se it lower). I did this by lowering my carb intake & adding in a couple TBSP's of coconut oil per day. That is a pretty drastic improvement & that is also what encouraged me to just say **** it & go full keto to see what kind of results I can get from that.

[kelkel]

Interesting stuff Pale1. Have you monitored your CRP level along the way as well by chance?

[Pale1]

Yes I have. Fibrinogen also. I don't have the #'s in front of me but CRP has always stayed in check. I have used a tsp of fish oil/ day along with one Bayer aspirin for the last few years now. I've read research suggesting that both of these have a positive influence on CRP.

Other supps that I use for heart health are 1500 mg's niacin/ day (This made a drastic improvement in my HDL), lecithin granules & also CoQ10.

Back to the CRP subject, CRP being an inflammatory marker I would expect it to come down even more on a keto diet. I believe carbohydrates to be highly inflammatory, & another carbohydrate theory that I have recently read is that it is that same carbohydrate induced inflammation in the endothelial cell lining of the arteries that actually allows plaque to accumulate. With no inflammation, the large buoyant LDL particles would pass through harmlessly.

[Who_Am_I]

With no inflammation, the large buoyant LDL particles would pass through harmlessly.

Agreed. I wrote this a while back and will post it here. It may or may not have been said already.

There are several theories postulated to explain the underlying cause of atherosclerosis and the mechanisms of atherogenesis remain uncertain. The response-to-injury hypothesis is the most widely accepted proposal which proposes that vascular injury starts the atherosclerotic process. Normal arteries have a smooth lining and when this lining becomes irritated a cascade of events begins that results in atherosclerosis. The body’s immune system responds by producing inflammation within the artery, triggering certain cells to deposit cholesterol and other substances under the artery’s lining, resulting in the development of lesions. The earliest pathologic lesion of atherosclerosis is known as a fatty streak. The fatty streak is the result of the accumulation of serum lipoproteins within the intima of the vessel wall. Once inside the vessel wall, LDL particles can become more prone to oxidation. Endothelial cells respond by attracting monocyte white blood cells, causing them to leave the blood stream, penetrate into the arterial walls and transform into macrophages. The macrophages' ingestion of oxidized LDL particles triggers a cascade of immune responses which over time can produce an atheroma (plaque) if HDL removal of fats from the macrophages does not keep up. Growth of the fibrous plaque results in vascular remodeling, progressive luminal narrowing, blood-flow abnormalities, and compromised oxygen supply to the target organ. Developing atherosclerotic plaques acquire their own microvascular network, the vasa vasorum, which are prone to hemorrhage and contribute to progression of atherosclerosis. If this plaque ruptures resulting in a thrombus formation, a partial or complete occlusion of the blood vessel may occur presenting with acute symptoms and possibly a heart attack or stroke.

Edit: Also want to add that some postulate that over consumption of Omega 6 fatty acids can lead to atherosclerosis as well.

[Pale1]

....

[Pale1]

Agreed. I wrote this a while back and will post it here. It may or may not have been said already.



Edit: Also want to add that some postulate that over consumption of Omega 6 fatty acids can lead to atherosclerosis as well.

YES! Omega 6's are inflammatory while Omega 3's are anti-inflammatory, & it's all about getting the right balance between the two. Before modern man started making all those nasty vegetable oils, about the most wide spread ratio of the two fats that he may consume would be like a 4-1 Omega 6 to Omega 3. Many cultures like the Inuites consumed a 1-1 ratio. A person consuming the standard American diet is consuming a ratio of something like 16-1!!

A well structured diet should have a low Omega 3 requirement because the Omega 6 intake should already be very low (remember it's all about the ratio). Most fats should come from saturated fats (grass fed animal fats or butter), & monounsaturated fats (olive oil & avocados).

[kelkel]

This is a book, literally:

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/381654

If nothing else, read the conclusion, save it to file, etc...

[Pale1]

This is a book, literally:

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/381654

If nothing else, read the conclusion, save it to file, etc...

It will take me some time to get through that one but just from skimming through the conclusion, I'm sure the drug companies will try to bury this report.

[kelkel]

Of course.

[lovbyts]

Remember, it's not about the money...
The new guideline will eventually increase the numbers of
statin users on the order of millions.

[lovbyts]

Speaking of cholesterol, I watched an interesting moving the other day called The Widowmaker. It's about heart disease, stents, cholesterol and of course the corrupt medical system and doctors.

[Pale1]

OK, got the lab results back. To recap, I have been experimenting with dietary modifications for the last few years in an attempt to optimize heart health. Modifications that have given me good (& in some cases great) results in the past have been: Using niacin, increasing fiber, eating whole eggs, reducing carb intake & adding coconut oil into my diet. So my latest experiment was going on a pretty hardcore ketogenic diet with LOTS of saturated & mono-unsaturated fats. Net carbs were kept under 15/ day. My main two targets here were trying to increase LDL particle size & reduce inflammation.

Well, I've actually really enjoyed eating like this & have seen no loss of strength in the gym either (despite losing close t 10 lbs of fat!), so I was hoping to make it a permanent lifestyle change. It would all depend on the bloodwork though. I'm in this for the long haul. & what I found is that while this way of eating gave me far better results than what I was doing years ago which was higher carbs & low saturated fat, when comparing it to what I was doing most recently before making the switch (lower carbs & more fat but not this low in carbs & not this much fat) to keto, I have experienced a bit of regression.

Lets cut to the chase. I'm not listing everything I had checked so if there's something you're interested in that I don't list just ask & I'll give you the info if I've got it. Here are the before & after results:

LDL-P: 1015 to 1048 (That was a rather insignificant change IMO)
LDL-C: 89 to 119 (Not good but I don't put much stock in this generic measurement of LDL anyway)
HDL-C 54 to 55 (No real change)
Triglycerides: 51 to 62 (Eh, my numbers here were never bad but was hoping to see at least a small drop. Oh well)
HDL-P: 34.7 to 33.4 (Again, not much of a change but was really hoping to see this # go up)
Small LDL-P: 390 to 469 (NOT what I was looking for , I'm still in the "normal" range but was really hoping to get this # under 200, but instead it went up )
LDL Size: 21 to 19.7 (Again, NOT what I was looking for )

Also, C Reactive Protein came in at 0.16 Which I am extremely happy with. Unfortunately, they used a different value to measure this with in the past so I'm not really clear on ho to compare it to previous results.

Well, there it is guys. That's why we experiment & get blood work done, to see what works & what doesn't, right?

I'm going to bump my carbs up a little now to about 50 grams & get that from fruits like berries & bananas post- workout when insulin sensitivity is peaked. Do that for a few months & see how that changes things. The experimentation continues

[kelkel]

I'm not clear on your LDL Density Pattern. Where did you land on the scale?

[Pale1]

I'm not clear on your LDL Density Pattern. Where did you land on the scale?

The Pattern A range is 23 - 20.6 &The Pattern B range is 20.5 - 19

My current bloodwork has me at 19.7, so I've regressed down from my previous pattern A range & now into the pattern B.

[Pale1]

There's 4 pages worth of reading here but there's some really good info in this piece:
Atherosclerosis and Cardiovascular Disease - Endothelial, Fibrinogen, Vitamin K - Life Extension Health Concern

[kelkel]

Will check it out. Thanks!

[GirlyGymRat]

Any update on BW without hard rhino Chinese RYR powder? I am still chocking down the pounds I purchased. I can't seem to remember to take this nasty stuff 3 times daily.

[kelkel]

I'm not due till Nov-Dec. Take it once per day.

[bigdil511]

Any update on BW without hard rhino Chinese RYR powder? I am still chocking down the pounds I purchased. I can't seem to remember to take this nasty stuff 3 times daily.

I've been taking the pills from now, are they less effective?

[< <Samson> >]

Any update on BW without hard rhino Chinese RYR powder? I am still chocking down the pounds I purchased. I can't seem to remember to take this nasty stuff 3 times daily.

I down a tbsp once a day - that's enough

[kelkel]

I've been taking the pills from now, are they less effective?

Correct, less effective as the FDA regulated out the natural statins. Read the thread all the way through and you'll pick up some interesting stuff.

[GirlyGymRat]

I down a tbsp once a day - that's enough

That's good to know. Ty!

[Paden5971]

Kelkel, would love your opinion on my Lipid panel. I know some things are high, most have been moving in the right direction, in the last few months. I'm reading your cholesterol post again, any advise would be appreciated.

8/11/15. 6/16/14
Triglycerides. 78 (< 150 mg/dl). 211. (150 mg/dl)
Cholesterol. 218 (150-200 mg/dl). 233 (140-200 mg/dl)
Cholesterol-HDL. 41(>40.0 mg/dl). 32 (>40.0 mg/dl)
Non-HDL cholesterol 177 (< 160 mg/dl). 201 (<160 mg/dl)
T.Chol/Hdl ratio. 5.3 (4.2-5.8 ratio). 7.3 (4.2-5.8 ratio)
Cholesterol VLDL. 16 (14-35 mg/dl). 42 (14-35 mg/dl)
Cholesterol LDL. 161 (<130 mg/dl). 159 (<130 mg/dl)

[kelkel]

Big difference a year made in some of your levels!
Did you add Fish Oil as your triglycerides dramatically improved.
Cholesterol at 218 is fine. Remember, lab scales are different. You're under 250 which is good.
Improvement in HDL, nice! Are you on TRT?
VLDL is in good shape. It's mostly triglycerides anyway.
LDL still high. Need to get this down.

So, what dietary changes did you make from your initial test to the most current?
What supplements did you add or eliminate?
Be sure to get the VAP or NMR Lipo profile for your next test.

[Paden5971]

Kelkel, thanks for taking a look. I posted the entire blow work in the low T section asking for your advise also, my plane ride took a day longer than I thought. In the past four months, I've cut out the booze, got back in the gym and back on a good diet. I've dropped close to 35 lbs. I do use Austinite green tea, chromium Pico and the synephrine. Other than that I haven't done much. I'm looking for any advise, im reading your cholesterol posts and looking forward to the next BW results. I'm currently at 19% BF.

[kelkel]

Well, you're on the right track. Be sure to read the links regarding supplements listed above.
Remember to do your best to eliminate sugar.

[Paden5971]

Thanks again Kelkel

[AR's King Silabolin]

Yo kel
My herbal supplier said some of his customers had improven cholestrol from 1200 mg garlic also. I dont know if it was better hdl, lower total, ldl etc, but they had documented better lipids.
Pomenarade should also be great from my studies.

I do NAC, garlic and pomenarade for cholestrol and i will do bloods soon. My cholestrol was ok, sligth low hdl after summercycle, but now i guess things will change. Dont think lgd will play a role (im using that now)

[almostgone]

Bumping this one up for personal reference. They had a health fair @ work and they did a very basic lipid profile and blood glucose that I didn't fast for because they said it wasn't necessary. Anyway, I have a feeling I may need to tweak my diet and my supps in the future. About all I take now is 500mg NAC daily (NOW brand) and one of the once/day Omega Red krill oil (probably not the best fat supplement, but better than nothing?).
My numbers were:
Total cholesterol: 187 mg/dL
HDL: 34 mg/dL
LDL: 141 mg/dL
Triglycerides: 59
Glucose: 84

I'm wondering that since this wasn't a fasting test perhaps my eating might have skewed my LDL and total cholesterol numbers, but I don't know why my HDL is in the tank. In the past my lipids have always been excellent; so good that my Drs. have always congratulated me/been jealous.
Thanks, Kel for sharing, I may need to go with the more comprehensive lipids testing in addition to tweaking my diet, and evaluating my supplements.
Of course the Drs office called today with my last labs and left some garbled @ss message on my voice mail. Hopefully, they will have them posted on their health care portal and I can access them later tonight.

[kelkel]

Do you use Krill Oil for extra clot prevention due to your situation? There's not a whole hell of a lot of difference in fasted or non-fasted lipids. Maybe Triglycerides the most could be negatively impacted from what I recall, but yours are good anyway. Read the study below, been a while since I've read it.

Fasting Compared with Nonfasting Lipids and Apolipoproteins for Predicting Incident Cardiovascular Events

LDL needs to be lower. HDL really isn't that bad. Remember, Crisler likes to give a 10 pt bump to HDL for those on TRT. Meaning he'd look at yours at 44.
Glucose would no doubt be lower if fasted as you know.