HGH and IF

So as we begin to come to cutting season, I was doing some research on Intermittent fasting. Research shows that a 24hr fast will spike natural GH levels over 2000%. Now I have already begun to work out fasted in the AM, however, I learned even amino acids will spike insulin and break a fast, so technically I wasn't fasted. I plan on going fasted for real next week.

People who do this will actually work out fast and not even eat until later in the afternoon; not using the so-called "window" of opportunity and all that, which is drilled into our heads, because apparently the protein we consume immediately after our workouts WILL NOT be used that day to rebuild muscle, but instead, the protein broken down the day before will be used.

This makes sense to me because I go to the gym without eating any carbs, and yet it's obvious the carbs I ate the night before are fueling my intense workout, (I do HIT training). Thing is, after all these years of eating poptarts and protein shakes PWO, believing this whole idea going without any food after working or for hours will cause us to lose muscle hours, but I realize now this is why the supplement industry is constantly making up things so we think we need their products every second of our workouts, pre, post, intra etc.

Sure this may be important for a bodybuilder taking insulin and trying to bulk up, as they want to gain weight, and want to store and shuttle nutrients constantly to gain size, but for cutting, we all know that once insulin is raised, all fat burning stops. So in this case, IF would be more superior way to lose fat, compared do going straight keto and limiting carbs completely for those of us who need them for HIT.

I currently take 3iu of HGH every morning when I wake up. I know this board is against Chinese, but this stuff is legit and my blood levels came back almost 400. Now to get to my question, if I am begin to do IF, using my own HGH to help burn fat in the am, wouldn't it make more sense to use take my exogenous HGH later in the day when I am eating? My logic is that we shouldn't take HGH before sleep as we have natural pulses; wouldn't this logic extend to fasting increasing my natural pulses again?

Thanks.

anyone?

great questions you bring up here. I'm not going to address them all right now and will start with just this comment..
sounds like you are listening to a lot of things from the evidence based natural bodybuilding community. thats a whole different little league girls soft ball game and does not apply most of the time to the big leagues.
eg.,, you really think Phil Heath is going to try intermittent fasting and train with weights while fasted just to try and get a little spike in natty GH ? hell no !! he's just going to inject 15iu of HGH per day with 80 iu of insulin and eat a shit ton of food and still be lean knowing that food is more anabolic then any natty GH release..

as for the Carbs, when your enhanced you utilize carbs way way better then natty . so we can actually burn body fat and still fill out muscle glycogen at the same time.

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we all know that once insulin is raised, all fat burning stops

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this is not true.. there are many high level bodybuilders that purposely inject insulin before doing cardio to enhance the fat burning process. I've been doing this myself for a long time and know coaches that have clients doing this as well.
if your statement was actually true, then no pro bodybuilding coach in their right mind would ever have guys run insulin to help burn body fat.

go through my thread "insulin for bodybuilding" under the HGH Insulin IGF heading of the forum and you'll see some reasons why.

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we all know that once insulin is raised, all fat burning stops

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perhaps you meant to say something like "once blood sugars are spiked, fat burning is halted" , and NOT "insulin''

which makes better sense and is one factor in the reason why guys will inject 3iu of insulin before doing cardio, to lower blood sugar and put themselves in a hypo state to better mobilize fat for fuel

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

great questions you bring up here. I'm not going to address them all right now and will start with just this comment..
sounds like you are listening to a lot of things from the evidence based natural bodybuilding community. thats a whole different little league girls soft ball game and does not apply most of the time to the big leagues.
eg.,, you really think Phil Heath is going to try intermittent fasting and train with weights while fasted just to try and get a little spike in natty GH ? hell no !! he's just going to inject 15iu of HGH per day with 80 iu of insulin and eat a shit ton of food and still be lean knowing that food is more anabolic then any natty GH release..

as for the Carbs, when your enhanced you utilize carbs way way better then natty . so we can actually burn body fat and still fill out muscle glycogen at the same time.



this is not true.. there are many high level bodybuilders that purposely inject insulin before doing cardio to enhance the fat burning process. I've been doing this myself for a long time and know coaches that have clients doing this as well.
if your statement was actually true, then no pro bodybuilding coach in their right mind would ever have guys run insulin to help burn body fat.

go through my thread "insulin for bodybuilding" under the HGH Insulin IGF heading of the forum and you'll see some reasons why.



perhaps you meant to say something like "once blood sugars are spiked, fat burning is halted" , and NOT "insulin''

which makes better sense and is one factor in the reason why guys will inject 3iu of insulin before doing cardio, to lower blood sugar and put themselves in a hypo state to better mobilize fat for fuel

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interesting..

Well I was under the believe that insulin meant that you ate and thus breaking the fast. I was listening to Thomas Delauer on this topic.

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

great questions you bring up here. I'm not going to address them all right now and will start with just this comment..
sounds like you are listening to a lot of things from the evidence based natural bodybuilding community. thats a whole different little league girls soft ball game and does not apply most of the time to the big leagues.
eg.,, you really think Phil Heath is going to try intermittent fasting and train with weights while fasted just to try and get a little spike in natty GH ? hell no !! he's just going to inject 15iu of HGH per day with 80 iu of insulin and eat a shit ton of food and still be lean knowing that food is more anabolic then any natty GH release..

as for the Carbs, when your enhanced you utilize carbs way way better then natty . so we can actually burn body fat and still fill out muscle glycogen at the same time.



this is not true.. there are many high level bodybuilders that purposely inject insulin before doing cardio to enhance the fat burning process. I've been doing this myself for a long time and know coaches that have clients doing this as well.
if your statement was actually true, then no pro bodybuilding coach in their right mind would ever have guys run insulin to help burn body fat.

go through my thread "insulin for bodybuilding" under the HGH Insulin IGF heading of the forum and you'll see some reasons why.



perhaps you meant to say something like "once blood sugars are spiked, fat burning is halted" , and NOT "insulin''

which makes better sense and is one factor in the reason why guys will inject 3iu of insulin before doing cardio, to lower blood sugar and put themselves in a hypo state to better mobilize fat for fuel

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https://youtu.be/441jBOb29YE

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Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser

https://youtu.be/441jBOb29YE

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I'm a big fan of fasted cardio.

But most of what is stated in this video is completely irrelevant to an enhanced bodybuilder, and most the advice given in it would be beneficial for some normal every day people , but would not be for an enhanced user.

again, the video is mainly about the benefits of increasing natural HGH . I'm not going to do all these different things prescribed in this video like weight train on an empty stomach just to get a increase in HGH ,, I'm going to eat a shit ton of food and just inject the damn HGH and get even more benefits .
Nattys can't do this. so I guess they can intermittent fast and get a 3% increase in results, while I simply take HGH, IGF, Slin and get an 800% increase .

if your natural then this video may be of some benefit. but no top level enhanced bodybuilder would follow any of these protocols except for the fasted cardio.

and if you want an increase in natural pulse of HGH in the morning , to save your exogenous HGH use for the later in the day ,, then simply take a GHRH or Sercratagouge in the AM.. you'll get the benefits and then be able to train with FOOD which is the most anabolic thing to do.

Food around the weight training session is fairly important.
to put it in to perspective heres what my workout nutrition looked like around my workout window today

pre workout 45g of protein and 50g of carbs
10iu insulin and 2iu HGH
intra workout 20g of Amino and 50g carbs
post workout 10iu insulin
post workout 45g protein 200g carbs

^ thats all nutrition just for the workout , let alone the rest the meals for the day (and I'm in a cutting/recomp phase).

Intermittent fasting is just the opposite of the above protocol , and Imo, is best suited for every day normal or obese people to help them with weight loss..
but most enhanced guys here are trying to get big and full and muscular and shredded all at the same time, and IF is far from. optimal for that

I should NOTE -- I'm all for intermittent fasting for overall health . I actually have several female clients doing interment fasting with morning cardio. it has its place,, my main point was that it really has no place for extreme muscle enhancement or enhanced bodybuilding

Interesting info brother.

The reason why I am doing this for now is because I'm currently focusing on fat lass and the fact that right now, as you have seen in my other posts, I'm not "enhanced" much at all lol because I'm currently on HGC to get my wife pregnant. I have to take TRT so I had to get off my cycle, lower to TRT dosages, and add some Adex to the mix because of the HCG.

I also take GH, and have been this entire year, but I figured if I was going to do this IF, to take my GH later in the day which is what I logically concluded and I think you are saying the same thing. However I don't take any GHRPs. Which would you recommend as there are so many?

I've also never messed around with insulin and never really cared to. I'm not a pro of any kind or think someone like myself who works out for sanity and to look good and by no means am I trying to be massively huge, think I would need it to achieve my goals. However, reading your post on SLIN, I notice a few people asking about lagging body parts: I never got my arms to 18 inches, which would be a great goal of mine to achieve. And I also never had shredded abs in my life. My avatar is the best I've ever gotten close to it.

I was always under the impression that HGH+SLIN etc will lead to the distended guts we see into today's BBer world. You don't have one, probably because you don't abuse these substances or maybe its a genetic thing. I follow Palumbo's channel and he's totally against SLIN use, even though I'm sure he took a crap load lol. He claims it just makes people fat unless you are the small % of the community that responds well to it. But ultimately, I never cared to mess with a substance that could put you in a coma, even though the directions to prevent that sound simple. As for me, I'm a disabled veteran with PTSD and sometimes I forget things easily so I wouldn't want to forget something that could kill me or mistakenly shoot 3ius of slin thinking its GH and go to the gym fasted lol.

But yes, for all purposes, as this point am I basically "natty" aside from me using GH and clen to enhance fat loss. But when I do get my wife pregant, which I hope is soon, I can't wait to jump back on tren and var lol.

Any other tips or input I would appreciate, I found your post to be very information and I had no idea slin could be used to purposely lower blood sugar to increase fat loss. So I'm all ears brother lol

Yes that makes total sense that your looking for other avenues to optimize your training and fat loss being your currently off cycle and going to be natty for the time being.
I like the way you think- finding a way to get a good natural pulse of HGH in the morning and then saving your exo HGH and taking that later in the day..
I've been doing something similar for years, only I use GHRH/Ps . I take the peptides and get a spike in natural GH , then my blood serum levels of HGH are high , then on top of this I will inject a micro dose of HGH and spike my blood serum levels that much higher . . I'm essentially amplifying the effect . even though I'm only running 4iu per day, it compounds like I'm running 6-8 iu per day through out the day.

GHRH peptides and secretagogues are a great option, even when using actual HGH. theres a synergy. so yes I highly recommend them.
if you need a good connect PM me.

I like Hexarelin , MK677, GHRP-6


Regarding insulin.. thats just one more tool in the enhanced bodybuilders tool belt. it has many really good uses. and it can be a game changer if implemented properly and safely.
yes you can use it to help bring up lagging body parts to a certain degree. using slin and intra workout nutrition on the day you train your lagging body parts as well as for recovery the next day. you'll be able to help drive in more nutrients into that muscle group, thus you'll get more anabolism as well as recovery.

concerning insulin and distended stomachs I explain how insulin is not directly the cause for this in short detail towards the end of post #46 in this thread I created on insulin use in bodybuilding .. give it a read I think it will be perhaps a bit eye opening.
https://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3...-thread-2.html

I've been following Dave Palumbo and Rx muscle for years.. I've debated via email with Dave on a few occasions about GH and insulin.
He used to be openly somewhat down on insulin use in bodybuilding even though he was a big user of it . BUT as of late over the last 6 months he has changed his tune on insulin and has gone over to the side of seeing its positive benefit especially by use of HGH using bodybuilders. Dave has went so far as to begin taking Lantice Insulin himself now.

Thank you for your service to our country brother !
If you forget things easily , I do have a technique that I suggest for properly using insulin without mixing things up. you simply store it in a complete separate place then you do your HGH or any peptides and its a 'special occasion' when you go to that place to use it. it gets your mind set geared towards knowing you need to get this dose right every single time.. you can also pre-load a bunch of insulin pins with exactly 10iu and you'll have those dosed correctly all the time.

yeah slin has many uses besides just blowing up and getting big. its an extremely useful compound , however its been demonized by people who don't use it and don't understand its use.

Interesting stuff brother. And thanks.

From what I understand, Milos Sarcev was really the mastermind behind SLIN, and I got a bad taste in my mouth from it after looking how the Yates era totally changed, but then got really crazy when Ronnie took over. But Yates himself said he didn't like slin; although he gain muscle, he said it was shit and you could tell during his last few years it was the case.

I actually have some IGF-1 that was made by Sciroxx; which they made in their lab that is essentially pharm-grade in Israel. This is the most potent shit I ever took in close to "slin" as I'll get. I was doing Palumbo's 10mcg per day protocol and it was insane how pumped I got. The GH I'm taking now is Meditrope; although Chinese its certainly legit. I'm only taking 3ius a day, keeping it simple.

I'll check out your article on the belly's because this is something that came about during the late 90's. But the funny thing is, Sarcev never had one, from what I could tell and he was the biggest believer lol.

It is also obvious that Slin is the reason why someone can get injured and gain 40 lbs in 4 months lol. Take for example Dennis Wolf or Justin Compton. The bodybuilders of today are just totally different from Arnold's day. And just to note, I do like Yates mass in 1993; I think the 90's were the best bodies in the mass categories and 70's were the best Aesthetics. I just find today's people are too ripped, too watery looking even when ripped, and the guts just ruin it of course. Yates brought that grainy mass which was incredible. But after him, it just went to shit IMO.

I fast once per month as a matter of course. I haven't noticed any physical improvements due to my voluntary fasting. However, at HGH 3iu/ed for 8 years I've seen huge improvements in my sense of well being and overall body fat control. This HGH stuff is amazing. I've never run slin because I was able to reach my goals without it. At 205lbs, this is the heaviest I've been in my entire life. Yea, I was a skinny pencil next for most of my life. It's almost unbelievable to me how guys can reach gargantuan proportions using slin. Just amazing. The distended belly is not very attractive though.

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Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

I fast once per month as a matter of course. I haven't noticed any physical improvements due to my voluntary fasting. However, at HGH 3iu/ed for 8 years I've seen huge improvements in my sense of well being and overall body fat control. This HGH stuff is amazing. I've never run slin because I was able to reach my goals without it. At 205lbs, this is the heaviest I've been in my entire life. Yea, I was a skinny pencil next for most of my life. It's almost unbelievable to me how guys can reach gargantuan proportions using slin. Just amazing. The distended belly is not very attractive though.

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Is the distended belly just from the HGH alone, or is it in conjunction with the use of slin?

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Originally Posted by AlterEdge78

Is the distended belly just from the HGH alone, or is it in conjunction with the use of slin?

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the bloated extended stomachs are not directly from insulin use nor HGH use , its from uncontrolled levels of IGF (which yes HGH and insulin do elevate IGF) and mis use and abuse of slin and HGH. This is why timing your HGH and insulin use is very important . I'll explain.

If you have high levels of IGF floating around your blood stream and your crushing your workout or you just finished then there is going to be 'cell signaling' going on ,, IGF is going to respond to this signal and go to the muscle cells for repair and building. BUT IGF does not just go to build skeletal muscle cells, its not biased towards muscle . it will grow and repair any cells. if all we want is muscle cells to grow then you want to try and time things for your IGF to be elevated during and after your workout. thats hard to do.

now lets say you have super high levels of IGF floating around your blood stream and its your day off .. your just crushed a 3000 calorie meal. The intestines and the smooth muscles of the stomach and gut are all working real hard at digesting all that food. guess what is now sending the signal for cell growth ? yep, your gut. IGF is being signaled to repair and grow your gut. not what we want, not the timing that we want. thats why we shouldn't abuse and over do the HGH and insulin use.

Some of these guys are taking 100+ iu of insulin every day and 20iu of HGH.. they do it all day long, they don't time it. they are just flowing with IGF all all the time. their stomach as well as other things will grow.

this is why I only recommend bolus doses of insulin pre and post workout (along with HGH). that way your IGF levels spike towards the end of your workout or just after, and the cells signaling for repair will be muscle cell. this is also why I don't personally exceed more then 30iu of slin in a day. I don't want to have spill over at times that I don't have muscle cell signaling.

Gearheaded, thank you for the insight brotha! That's pretty amazing how it works.

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I don't want to have spill over at times that I don't have muscle cell signaling.

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I'm gathering the insulin shots should only be utilized on workout days to prevent this as well?

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Originally Posted by AlterEdge78

I'm gathering the insulin shots should only be utilized on workout days to prevent this as well?

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depends on your main goal and use of insulin (there are many uses of insulin in bodybuilding) . I generally for my goals keep my insulin shots pre and post workout. as I'm taking advantage of blood flow and nutrient delivery that can occur around and during the workout. if I don't workout I don't need slin (but without going into details, in some circumstances I may).

This post has been an awesome read, thank you guys!