Humulin R - My first experiment

[Slacker78]

Hello guys, following the threads and the precious info i got in this forum by you ( in particular GearHeaded ), today i will start slin. As the title, i will use for starting Humulin R at 5UI post workout.
I will keep track of the journey sharing my experiences with you as this could be useful to all as well.

For summary i'm on test-only bulking cycle since 2 months on 1050 gr. of Testosterone/Week ( 750mg Sustanon plus 300mg test prop ), no AI, just Nolva 10mg/ED, and T4 100mcg/ED. I'm doing just testosterone because for the moment i have no access to buy reliable gear and my testosterone is the only pharmacy grade stuff i have, so i trust of it. I'm in hypercaloric diet with ~480 gr. of carbs. I'm taking iron supplements ( 100mg every day ) and potassium 300mg/ED, and other stuff ( Vitamin C, NAC, etc. ).

I will add slin as i told before, by today. Intra workout, i drink a shake with 50 gr. of maltodextrin with 5 gr. of creatine. I wonder after pinning slin in post workout, could i use maltodextrin in my shake, 50 gr. for the moment, as base source of glucose mixed with whey proteins ?

[GearHeaded]

Insulin is a great nutrient driver, especially post workout when signaling is high.. so the more nutrients you can add in your nutrition when you take the slin the better . Maltodextrin works fine for glucose , and along with it adding creatine is a good idea , I would also add in like 15g of EAAs (or whey isolate) , 2g of glycerol, some salt (and perhaps an electrolyte powder as well).

when Insulin drives the glucose into muscle cells to be stored as glycogen, all these other nutrients that you've just saturated your blood with will also "catch a ride" into the muscle as well

[Slacker78]

Insulin is a great nutrient driver, especially post workout when signaling is high.. so the more nutrients you can add in your nutrition when you take the slin the better . Maltodextrin works fine for glucose , and along with it adding creatine is a good idea , I would also add in like 15g of EAAs (or whey isolate) , 2g of glycerol, some salt (and perhaps an electrolyte powder as well).

when Insulin drives the glucose into muscle cells to be stored as glycogen, all these other nutrients that you've just saturated your blood with will also "catch a ride" into the muscle as well

Ok, perfect. I will use a shake after my 5UI slin pinning post workout of 50gr. of maltodextrin, 30 gr. of Whey isolate proteins and 5 gr. of creatine.

In general, intra workout, i drink around 2 liter of water with 50gr. of Maltodextrin; with 5UI of slin post workout, it's highly probably that the other 50gr. carbs dose will overlap the previous one, so after 1.5 hour, my blood sugar might be higher of what expected. You told me that < 130 ng/dl should be fine, isn'it ?

The optimal range should between 80 - 115 if i don't wrong....

[Slacker78]

I think, it should be better to avoid intra work-out carbs shake to getting more reliable results for slin/carbs ratio, in post workout...

[GearHeaded]

well being your bulking, the 50g of carbs intra workout, and the additional 50g of carbs post workout with whey and Slin is totally fine. I have lots of people currently consuming a large majority of their carbs from their pre workout meal , to the their intra workout carbs, to their post workout meal (upwards of 250g of carbs during that time frame)..


yes check your blood sugar about 1.5 hours after injecting the slin and taking the carbs. you want to be under 130, if your not then you may need to increase the dosage of slin to like 7iu. personally I like to be at around 95-100 or so.

keep in mind that at the 1.5-2 hour mark post injection Humalin R is still active and may have a slight second peak. you may have to eat another meal at the 2 hour mark .
note- but this is not likely with only 5iu. I've taken upwards of 30iu in a one hour window and at those higher dosages the secondary peak is a lot more prominent and I do get another meal in at the 2 hour mark

[GearHeaded]

I think, it should be better to avoid intra work-out carbs shake to getting more reliable results for slin/carbs ratio, in post workout...

personally, I would work up to doing 5iu post workout , but also 5iu pre workout with your intra workout carbs. so I'd keep the intra workout carbs in and when your comfortable with using slin, then just use it pre workout as well

[Slacker78]

well being your bulking, the 50g of carbs intra workout, and the additional 50g of carbs post workout with whey and Slin is totally fine. I have lots of people currently consuming a large majority of their carbs from their pre workout meal , to the their intra workout carbs, to their post workout meal (upwards of 250g of carbs during that time frame)..


yes check your blood sugar about 1.5 hours after injecting the slin and taking the carbs. you want to be under 130, if your not then you may need to increase the dosage of slin to like 7iu. personally I like to be at around 95-100 or so.

keep in mind that at the 1.5-2 hour mark post injection Humalin R is still active and may have a slight second peak. you may have to eat another meal at the 2 hour mark .
note- but this is not likely with only 5iu. I've taken upwards of 30iu in a one hour window and at those higher dosages the secondary peak is a lot more prominent and I do get another meal in at the 2 hour mark

Ok perfect. Tonight i will know everything. I will update you very soon. Thank you boss !

[Slacker78]

Update.

I came back to home after my work-out and as i told before, i pinned not 5... but 7UI of slin ( Humulin R ) and after 10 minutes i drinked my shake with ~70gr. of carbs, 20 gr. whey isolate proteins and 5 gr. of creatine. I sitted to my pc to work a little and i set my clock to alarm about 1.5 hour later to check blood sugar. When it happens, i went to take my glucometer and.... the batteries were low ! I forgot to buy them. Nothing, so i wasn't able to check blood sugar... however, i hadn't any hypo symptom, i guess my carbs load was good or maybe higher respect the slin dosage.

After a while, i sitted to eat my pasta and tuna fish and so on... tomorrow i will buy the batteries and i will try to test keeping the ratio but increasing slin to 10UI, post workout only.

Stay tuned

[Slacker78]

This morning i played with slin again. I pinned 7UI when i'm woke up and did breakfast ( given the suppressor effect on cortisol ) with ~70 gr. of carbs and 30 gr. of proteins. I went out and after 2 hours, i tested blood sugar: 125 mg/DL. I think i can switch to 10UI and see what happen, keeping the carbs more or less at same level. I will do this after my post-work out today.

[Slacker78]

A question...maybe stupid question, but is a question...

Chronic use of insulin use for BB performances, even moderate dosages but continuous, might lead in time to insulin resistance ( or loosing a bit of insulin sensitivity ) even though one practice BB training the same ? In general, do this, might lead to any problematic consequences of different natures as AAS might do ? I suppose that until one continue to train and stimulates muscle cells sensitivity, this could be avoided and insulin use could be a great addition and enhancement in a long running....

[GearHeaded]

A question...maybe stupid question, but is a question...

Chronic use of insulin use for BB performances, even moderate dosages but continuous, might lead in time to insulin resistance ( or loosing a bit of insulin sensitivity ) even though one practice BB training the same ? In general, do this, might lead to any problematic consequences of different natures as AAS might do ? I suppose that until one continue to train and stimulates muscle cells sensitivity, this could be avoided and insulin use could be a great addition and enhancement in a long running....

this is easy to track and avoid . all you do is take your morning blood sugar fasted.. lets say its 80. well if you've been using insulin daily for say 10 weeks straight and your fasted blood sugar has gotten up to say 100 now , then its time to take a break for 6 weeks until fasted blood sugars drop back down.

for some guys this is never even an issue though. insullin resistance generally only happens to guys when using insulin when pushing way way too hard on the carbs and sugars. instead of using insulin with their existing diet , they start throwing in a ton more carbs and sugar then they are used to taking in just because they think they have to with insulin use.

[Slacker78]

this is easy to track and avoid . all you do is take your morning blood sugar fasted.. lets say its 80. well if you've been using insulin daily for say 10 weeks straight and your fasted blood sugar has gotten up to say 100 now , then its time to take a break for 6 weeks until fasted blood sugars drop back down.

for some guys this is never even an issue though. insullin resistance generally only happens to guys when using insulin when pushing way way too hard on the carbs and sugars. instead of using insulin with their existing diet , they start throwing in a ton more carbs and sugar then they are used to taking in just because they think they have to with insulin use.

So, some break, could it useulf sometimes, to allow GLUT receptors to resensitize to insulin. I haven't still test my fasted blood sugar. Tomorrow i will do it. If it's high, so out of the range 80-110 mg/dl, i think it's time to opt for a n hypocaloric diet and stay on it for a while, reducing AAS ( cruising to only testosterone ~400mg/week ).... but i wonder it in a cut phase, could it be useful using insulin pre and post workout the same, taking the low amount of carbs expected from the cutting diet, in that moment to provide to muscle cells a better shoot of nutrients and improving the maintenance of muscle mass ?

[GearHeaded]

a short 6 week mini cut will definitely help improve insulin sensitivity .. and YES you can use Slin during cutting phase, pre and post workout, to help with nutrient delivery as well as act as an anti catabolic and also help aide in recovery .
even in contest prep I utilize insulin , up until about 2 weeks out and beginning depletion .

and an advanced protocol , that I've mentioned elsewhere on this forum , I utilize insulin at very low dose (3iu) for fasted cardio..
I'll post a link where I chat about that

posts 5, 11, 13
https://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3...-how-long.html

[Slacker78]

Update.

7UI before workout this time ( i begin to taste it sweetly ... ); intra workout i drinked my shake with ~60 gr. of maltodextrin and 5 gr. creatine. Feeling good, great pump, no hypo, but 1.5 hour before pinning slin, i ate 2 bananas so i thinking had already a little of glucose in blood stream as stock; however, after work-out ( 1.2 hour of heavy work out plus a little of cardio ) and came back to home, i pinned 8UI of slin with a protein snack of 21 gr. of carbs plus 20 gr. of proteins and i add 40 gr. of maltodextrin also. Later, after 1.5 hour i tested my blood sugar and the result was 97 mg/DL. No sign of hypo at all.

Remember this morning i did 6UI before breakfast to blunt cortisol, so the total slin UI of the day is 21UI. By these results, it seems that the ratio 1UI/10gr. of carbo ( more or less ) fits good to me. And my insulin sensitivity is good enough. Tomorrow in the morning, i will shoot 5UI at breakfast and 10UI pre work-out and 10 UI post workout increasing a little i carbo to keep the ratio. In total will be 25UI/Day. With maltodextrin, for me, it seems a very good source of carbo to give into slin. I will update next results

[Slacker78]

Update. Today i injected 30UI slin in total. 10UI three times in course of the day, before breakfast, pre and post workout with an average of ~80gr. of carbs on each injection.

My fasted blood sugar this morning was 73mg/DL. Only tonight, after workout i pinned the last 10UI but i eat just ~50gr. of carbs in my shake ( i finished maltodextrin ), because for time reasons i ate late in the afternoon, almost 1 hour before the 10UI pinning pre workout. Infact, 1.5 hour after last 10UI, i tested my blood glucose and was 79mg/DL so lower respect the previous days, but without evident sign of hypo. I started to eat and all was fine. Timing issue at the end.

For the AAS dosages and molecules, my diet, T4 ( 100mcg/Day ) i find out my suitable slin UI/Carbs ratio is 1UI/8-10 gr. of carbs, with Humulin R. As we know this ratio could change in time, based on changes will occur in my nutrition protocol and AAS stack/dosages.

Ah, i'm not using HGH. When i will introduce it, this will lead to some changes as well as the hyperglycaemic properties it has.

What do you think ? Gearheaded, thank you for precious support, you're a friend

[Slacker78]

I have a doubt which caused me some question about slin usage.

When we use exogenous slin, our pancreas, is completely or partially shutdown about its physiological production ? Yes, i know exogenous slin give a rest to our pancreas, but is it a total rest or partial rest ?

Further...in some thread i have read that continous use of exogenous slin in a long time, could lead to pancreas stress "rebound", because after it was shutdown of exogenous slin use, it could find hard to handle its production again when exogenous slin is stopped.

This lead me to think, to something like "the pancreas could be its ability to perfectly product insulin of its own in time"..... so could it be possibile a sort of atrophy of beta cells, or something like ? A diabetic one does not run this risk of course... but us ?

[GearHeaded]

theres not quite the negative feed back loop with exogenous insulin as there is with say exogenous Test usage that shuts down the testes. the pancreas does not get 'told' to shut down just because exogenous insulin is present, in the same way that the pituitary and HPTA tell the testes to stop producing test.. it does not work that way ,, rather the pancreas is still producing insulin on top of the exogenous insulin you inject, because the pancreas beta cells simply respond to elevated blood sugar and the presence of nutrients (mainly carbs and amino acids) in the digestive tract.

So , being your still taking in food the pancreas is still going to respond to that and produce insulin. you pancreas does not know that you injected insulin, it simply sees blood sugars elevate and nutrients are in the digestive tract and it releases insulin.

this is actually how some guys end up going hypo. they shoot 10iu of humalog, slam a bunch of fast liquid carbs, get a spike in blood sugar, and your pancreas responds to this at the same time the humalog begins hitting you. you get both a natty and exogenous pulse of slin.


so again.. your pancreas is always going to be producing insulin for you because your always eating food. exogenous insulin does not shut the pancreas down (only starvation shuts the pancreas down)..
now sure, your panaceas is going to produce less insulin and have the burden eased a bit when using exogenous slin. but this is only because your blood sugars are on average lower when using slin (its not cause the slin itself is present in the blood stream that makes the pancreas produce less insulin, its simply that the glucose load is not as high).


hope that makes sense. I wouldn't worry too much about it. you pancreas is going to function just fine wither you use slin or not (its high dose HGH over time with no insulin use that can cause problems).. again it does not work like testosterone use making your testes atrophy (there is no negative feedback loop with slin use)

[Slacker78]

theres not quite the negative feed back loop with exogenous insulin as there is with say exogenous Test usage that shuts down the testes. the pancreas does not get 'told' to shut down just because exogenous insulin is present, in the same way that the pituitary and HPTA tell the testes to stop producing test.. it does not work that way ,, rather the pancreas is still producing insulin on top of the exogenous insulin you inject, because the pancreas beta cells simply respond to elevated blood sugar and the presence of nutrients (mainly carbs and amino acids) in the digestive tract.

So , being your still taking in food the pancreas is still going to respond to that and produce insulin. you pancreas does not know that you injected insulin, it simply sees blood sugars elevate and nutrients are in the digestive tract and it releases insulin.

this is actually how some guys end up going hypo. they shoot 10iu of humalog, slam a bunch of fast liquid carbs, get a spike in blood sugar, and your pancreas responds to this at the same time the humalog begins hitting you. you get both a natty and exogenous pulse of slin.


so again.. your pancreas is always going to be producing insulin for you because your always eating food. exogenous insulin does not shut the pancreas down (only starvation shuts the pancreas down)..
now sure, your panaceas is going to produce less insulin and have the burden eased a bit when using exogenous slin. but this is only because your blood sugars are on average lower when using slin (its not cause the slin itself is present in the blood stream that makes the pancreas produce less insulin, its simply that the glucose load is not as high).


hope that makes sense. I wouldn't worry too much about it. you pancreas is going to function just fine wither you use slin or not (its high dose HGH over time with no insulin use that can cause problems).. again it does not work like testosterone use making your testes atrophy (there is no negative feedback loop with slin use)

Pretty clear, as always. Thank you so much, GH.