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Thread: My Guide to HGH for anyone interested

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    My Guide to HGH for anyone interested

    A Basic Guide to HGH – by RedBaron

    The intention of this guide is to give you a good basic working knowledge of HGH and how to intelligently use it. While this is not intended to cover every conceivable nuance of HGH use, it should provide you with a solid enough background to create your cycle around. I am not writing this as a scientific exposition or as an overly technical overview. I am writing this from the standpoint of a seven-year veteran of HGH use, and an athlete (yes even paid at times) that has used this as one of the tools in my arsenal. I have injected tens of thousands of IU’s of HGH into myself, and carefully monitored, tested, and experimented on myself. So with that disclaimer being made up front, lets take a look at this hormone called HGH.

    Few other hormones have generated more excitement and hype in recent years than HGH. From reports of incredible fat loss to tales of increases in lean muscle to levels that defy genetics, HGH has been touted as one of the panaceas to all bodybuilding woes. Depending on which statistics you trust, reports of as many as 80% of professional athletes have experimented with, have used, or are actively using HGH as a supplement to their training program.


    WHAT EXACTLY IS HGH?
    Human Growth Hormone (somatotropin - also referred to as rHGH, HGH, or GH) is created by the pituitary gland, the primary form consisting of a 191 amino acid chain. When we are young, HGH is in big part responsible for the proper growth of bones, muscle, and other tissues. Too little of this hormone and we remain dwarfs … too much and we become giants and/or suffer from abnormal growth deformities. As we become adults, HGH is responsible for keeping muscles from wasting away, supports healthy immune system response, regulates aspects of our metabolic function dealing with increased fat metabolism and healthy body composition in later life, and maintains and repairs our skin and other tissues.

    Our levels of HGH peak while we are adolescents and then begin to drop off sharply beginning in our 30’s. By our 60’s, our daily HGH secretion can be as little as 10% of what it was during our youth. Many of the markers of aging are affected by this decrease in HGH. Some of the results of this are:

    Increase in fat.
    Decrease in muscle and lean body structures.
    Decreased skin texture resulting in a less youthful appearance.
    Decreased bone density, onset of osteoporosis.
    Decreased brain function, loss of intellect with aging.
    Decreased sex drive.
    Decrease in overall physical and mental well being.
    Increase in sleep disorders, lower quality of sleep.
    Depression and fatigue.

    The addition of supplemental HGH beginning in the latter 30’s can reverse or improve these symptoms in the majority of people attempting therapy. This is why you will often hear references with respect to HGH as “the fountain of youth” and other similar terms. It can present a better quality of life for those aging.

    HOW IS HGH RELEASED IN YOUR BODY?
    HGH is secreted from the pituitary in a pulsatile fashion, generally following a circadian rhythm. A number of stimuli can initiate an HGH secretion, the most powerful being short duration, high intensity exercise and sleep. During the first few hours of sleep (deep sleep stages – about 2 hours after you fall asleep), Somatostatin is turned off and GHRH is turned on, resulting in HGH pulses.

    Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) produced by the hypothalamus stimulates HGH secretion. HGH, and IGF-1 create a negative feedback loop, meaning when their levels are high; it blunts release of GHRH, which in turn blunts the release of more HGH.

    Somatostatin (SS), secreted by the hypothalamus as well as other tissues inhibits the secretion of HGH Somatostatin in response to GHRH and to other stimulatory factors such as low blood glucose concentration. High levels of IGF-1 also stimulate Somatostatin secretion.

    Ghrelin is a peptide hormone secreted from the stomach. Ghrelin binds to receptors on somatotrophs and potently stimulates secretion of growth hormone. Ghrelin, as the stimulator for the growth hormone secretagogue receptor, potently stimulates secretion of growth hormone. The ghrelin signal is integrated with that of growth hormone releasing hormone and somatostatin to control the timing and magnitude of growth hormone secretion.

    Once HGH is released, it is very short lived. It is generally metabolized and gone within a half-hour. During this half-hour, it travels to the liver and other tissues and induces them to secrete a polypeptide hormone called Insulin -like Growth Factor One (IGF-1).

    HOW DOES HGH DO ITS WORK?
    As mentioned above, HGH is short lived, but during its short half-hour or so activity per burst from the pituitary, it exerts itself through direct and indirect effects.

    Its direct effects are the result of the HGH binding its receptor on target cells. Fat cells (adipocytes) as well as myocytes (muscle cells) have HGH receptors. On fat cells, HGH stimulates them to break down triglyceride and suppresses the fat cells ability to uptake circulating lipids.

    Its indirect effects are in the process we described in the section above. When HGH travels to the liver, one of the results of its pass through the liver is the livers secretion of IGF-1. When this IGF-1 is secreted, it stimulates proliferation of chondrocytes (cartilage cells), which result in bone growth. It also plays a part in stimulating both the proliferation and differentiation of myoblasts (the precursor to skeletal muscle fibers). IGF-1 also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. Other tissues (muscle, etc.) are acted on by the presence of HGH, also inducing their release of IGF-1.

    HGH stimulates protein anabolism in many tissues. This reflects increased protein synthesis, decreased oxidation of proteins, and increased amino acid uptake. As mentioned above, HGH enhances fat utilization by stimulating triglyceride breakdown and oxidation in fat cells (adipocytes).

    HGH can affect the function of other hormones. HGH can suppress the abilities of insulin to stimulate the uptake of glucose in tissues and enhance glucose synthesis in the liver, though administering HGH actually stimulates insulin secretion and can create a state of hyperinsulinemia. This combination can lead to decreased insulin sensitivity, which in turn can lead to hyperglycemia. HGH can in the right circumstances also have a slight inhibitory effect on the function of our thyroid hormones (and actually vice versa as well), though this varies greatly from individual to individual. The vast majority of users have no need to worry about this at all. Others wishing to increase their metabolism or enhance certain of HGH’s functions may wish to consider low dose thyroid to their HGH cycle. We’ll offer some strategies later in this guide.

    So, we are looking at a hormone that can assist with maintenance and healing of most of the body’s systems, can create new cartilage, bone, and muscle cells, can assist with protein uptake, decrease the oxidation of proteins, and can accelerate the rate at which fat is utilized. This paints the picture of the excitement that follows HGH. How then do we utilize this to our advantage? Let’s take a look at some strategies.

    HOW DO I INCREASE MY LEVELS OF HGH?
    There are a few strategies for increasing your own endogenous production of HGH. For the most part these aren’t going to give us a significant enough increase that would be necessary to promote all of the benefits mentioned above in their full measure, but for some (those still young) they will prove to be sufficient.

    By adding several grams of Arginine and Glutamine to our daily supplement program, we can increase our levels of HGH. If we are very young or we are only in need of a modest jump in production, this may well do the trick. Short duration, high-intensity exercise (think heavy leg day – puking and all), will trigger our bodies to secrete a significant amount of HGH

    Another possibility is to inject various related hormones or peptides. There are many available, such as GHRH, GHRP (and all of its analogs), and the like. These peptides are available from research companies and when injected at doses of 100mcgs per day, sub-q it does seem to show promise in increasing levels of HGH. At this stage the game, there isn’t a significant cost advantage to this over rHGH, but if we are trying to promote some of the other forms of HGH in addition to the primary form, or have no hope of securing a prescription for HGH (or other means of access) there may be an advantage to this course of action. Aside from these strategies, what are we left with? To state it simply, we need to inject exogenous rHGH.

    INJECTIBLE HGH AND ITS USE
    True HGH only comes in the form of a lyophilized powder. Any other form that you see advertised or run across is NOT the real deal. The only way to administer true HGH is by sub-q or intramuscular injection. You will see studies that use IV as their method of administration, but that is certainly NOT recommended (in fact it is just outright crazy), nor necessary in any way for getting all of the benefits HGH has to offer.

    HGH is somewhat fragile by nature, and it needs to be protected from light and heat. HGH should be stored between 36 and 46 degrees Fahrenheit at all times both before and after its reconstitution.

    There are a couple of American brands of HGH that can survive in normal room temperature for a reasonable amount of time BEFORE reconstitution (Genotropin – 3 months, Saizen – until expiration), but for the most part it is better to err on the side of safe rather than sorry. All brands of HGH should be refrigerated after being reconstituted, and all brands should be protected from light at all times.

    RECONSTITUTING AND MEASURING YOUR HGH
    So you now have a vial HGH in the form of lyophilized powder. The amount of this powder should be indicated on the vial somewhere. It will either be stated in Units (IU's) or in Milligrams (mg). If it is stated in milligrams, the conversion is most commonly stated as 1mg = ~3IU's (its really more precisely 1mg=2.7IU). We will use this 1mg = 3IU's for our guide since this is the standard most commonly referenced by manufacturers.

    What we need to do with this lyophilized powder is add some Bacteriostatic water (BW), Sterile Water, or even liquid vitamin B12 to reconstitute it and make it ready to inject.

    What we choose to reconstitute it with should depend on how rapidly we use the GH. Bacteriostatic water is basically sterile water with 0.9% Benzyl Alcohol added, and this Alcohol keeps anything from growing in the water, thus making it safe for injection for the longest amount of time, up to three weeks. If the amount of GH in our vial is enough to last for a few weeks at our desired daily dosage, BW is the wisest choice. For the common use for bodybuilding (2-5 IU's a day) and the more commonly used vial size (10 IU's), it isn't really as critical which of the above listed dilutents are used … the vial will be used up long before bacteria or anything begins to grow in our reconstituted HGH. It is really personal preference outside of the considerations listed above.

    RECONSTITUTING
    1.) Take an alcohol swab and swab the stopper of both your HGH vial and the vial of the dilutent (BW, sterile water, B12).

    2.) Take a 3cc syringe with a 23 or 25 gauge needle (1" or 1.5") and draw up and amount of your preferred dilutent. The amount isn't critical, other than making sure you know exactly how much you have used. The best rule of thumb is choose an amount that will make measuring the final product easy

    example- 1ml(cc) per 10 IU vial of HGH would mean each 10 mark on a U100 slin syringe would equal 1 IU of HGH

    2ml(cc) added to a 10 IU vial of HGH would mean that the 20 mark on a U100 syringe would equal 1 IU of HGH

    3ml(cc) added to a 10 IU vial of HGH would mean that the 30 mark on a U100 syringe would equal 1 IU of HGH


    3.) Take this syringe with the dilutent and push it into the vial of lyophilized powder, angling so that the needle touches the side of the vial, and avoiding shooting the dilutent directly on the lyophilized powder. Make it run slowly down the side of the vial (don't let it forcefully rush in).

    4.) After all of the dilutent has been added to the HGH vial, gentling swirl (do NOT agitate or violently shake the vial) until the lyophilized powder has dissolved and you are left with a clear liquid. The HGH is now ready for use. Store your now reconstituted HGH in the refrigerator. If you used BW to reconstitute it will be good for three weeks. If you used sterile water, it will be good for about 5 days.

    MEASURING
    After you have successfully reconstituted your HGH, now you need to know how to measure the desired amount out for injection. You will want to use a U100 insulin syringe to draw out and inject your HGH.

    Here is the way to figure out how much to draw out. Since you know the amount of IU's in your HGH vial, and you also know how much water you have diluted it with, we just divide this out as follows:

    You will need to know the following to be successful -

    1ml = 1cc = 100 IU's

    So we take our number of IU's of HGH from the label of the dry lyophilized powder (most commonly 10 IU's for all of us Jintropin users), and we divide that into the amount of dilutent we used.

    example- We used 1cc(ml) of water. We have a 10 IU vial of HGH.
    From our formula above we know that 1cc = 100 IU's, so we have 100 IU's of water.
    We now divide the 100 IU's (the amount of our water) by 10 IU's (the amount of our HGH)

    100 IU / 10 IU = 10

    This 10 will perfectly correspond with the markings on a U100 insulin syringe. In our example every 10 mark on our syringe will equal 1 IU of HGH. Want to draw out 2 IU's of GH? ....draw out to the 20 mark on the syringe.


    This is about all there is to it. So to recap, just keep straight:

    1.) How much actual HGH you are dealing with (read from the vial)
    2.) How much water (dilutent) you are using to add to the actual HGH.
    3.) Divide the amount of water in units by the amount of GH in units.
    4.) This result will equal the measurement on your U100 Insulin syringe per unit of GH.
    5.) multiply the number you get it step 4 by how many units you want to inject. This is the number to draw to on your syringe.

    Now that we have a basic understanding of what HGH is, how it does its work, and how to reconstitute and measure it, lets look at some strategies for using this hormone to our best advantage.

    STRATEGIES FOR USING HGH
    There are many different approaches to taking HGH. The right approach for your particular situation will depend on your goals. For many, HGH is a general supplement to help maintain low bodyfat percentages and reasonable levels of lean body mass. For others who have reached their genetic potential for growth, HGH is a supplement that can assist in continued growth beyond what your parents gave you to work with. For yet others, it is a supplement that is used for general health and healing of injuries. Let’s look at each of these uses with respect to a reasonable HGH program.

    For bodybuilders, HGH (and the IGF-1 that is a result of its use) is the only substance that can actually initiate hyperplasia, which in the interest of our use in bodybuilding equates to new muscle cells. While use of anabolic steroids can cause hypertrophy (the enlargement of existing muscle cells), steroids do not offer the ability to recruit and mature more muscle cells. HGH can. HGH also increases protein synthesis, which can be responsible for hypertrophy. HGH also strengthens and heals connective tissues, cartilage, and tendons. These uses are what make it so attractive to athletes in all sports, and in bodybuilding in particular.


    To begin with, it should be stated that for the vast majority of HGH users, results are not rapid and earthshaking in nature. If your idea of using HGH is to get ripped in a few weeks, gaining 20 pounds of muscle in a matter of a month or two, or being miraculously healed in a matter of a few injections … you are likely in for a BIG disappointment. HGH does some pretty incredible things, but it HAS to be viewed as a long-term endeavor. A reasonable length HGH cycle would be 20-30 weeks in length. While you will always be able to find the one or two individuals who will make great strides in a short amount of time, the majority of us need to be dedicated to its use for the long haul for it to be a worthy venture.

    As mentioned in our introduction to HGH, one of the major roles it plays in growth is by its acting on the liver, muscle cells, and other tissues, which in turn secretes IGF-1. This process is cumulative in nature, and it will take some time for your exogenous HGH use to bring your IGF-1 levels to create an environment conducive to optimal growth. While it is true that HGH begins shuttling nutrients to your muscles, and begins mobilizing fat from the first injection, these behind the scenes benefits will only be VISIBLE several weeks (up to 12) down the road.

    DOSING

    For anti-aging, general health & healing, fat mobilization
    And other purposes such as these –

    A dose of 2-3 IU’s per day (~10 – 15 IU’s per week) will be sufficient. A dose of 1.5 - 2.0 IU’s is considered to be a full replacement dose for those in their middle age. Given we will get somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-80% absorption and utilization from our subQ injections, our 2-3 IU’s will for all intents and purposes equate to a full replacement measure of HGH.

    For gaining lean muscle and substantially improving body composition –
    For this purpose a dose of 5-10 IU’s per day (~25-50 IU’s per week) will be necessary. Most people that still have an alive and kicking pituitary will respond very well at a dose of 5 IU's per day, though advanced bodybuilders and other large strength athletes will find that dose approaching 10 IU’s per day will be in order.
    For maximum benefit in this regard, the addition of Testosterone and/or other anabolic should strongly be considered. For advanced use, other supplements like Insulin, and low-dose T3 or T4 would also be considerations.

    Regardless of your goal, as a general rule the best way to begin your HGH program is to start with a low dose and ease your body into the higher doses. This will allow you to avoid (or at least minimize) many of the more common (and unpleasant) sides of HGH such as bloating and joint pain & swelling. Most people can tolerate up to approximately 2 IU’s per day with few sides, so that would be a good place to start.

    For many using this as a general health supplement, that is as high as you will need to go. For others this will be only the start. Above 2.5 – 3 IU’s, I would definitely suggest that your split your injections into two per day instead of one unless it is just not feasible to do so. In my experiences, I have ran doses as high as 10 IU’s per injection, but at those doses I have suffered greatly with joint pain and bloating to the point of feeling like a Goodyear blimp. Also in my experimentation it seems that at least for me, keeping my individual doses down to 3-3.5 IU’s a piece, I more effectively elevate my IGF-1 levels while minimizing the need for mega-doses of HGH.

    Here is what a good ramp up strategy would look like:
    Weeks 1-4 = HGH 2 IU’s one injection
    Week 5 = HGH 2.5 IU’s one injection
    Week 6 = HGH 3.0 IU’s split into two injections of 1.5 IU’s each
    Week 7 = HGH 3.5 IU’s split into two injections of 1.75 IU’s each
    And so forth until you reach your desired dose.


    If at any point in this progression you begin to have unbearable bloating or joint pain, drop the dose by 25% and hold it at this lower dosage for a couple of weeks. If the sides subside, begin your progression back up toward your desired level. If the sides remain, lower your dose again and hold it at the lower level for two weeks before beginning the upward progression. This method will keep your HGH experience a good one and side free for the most part.

    For a normal cycle of 5-8 months in length, injecting once or twice a day, 7 days a week should be fine. While there are studies that suggest that the suppression and negative feedback from exogenous HGH is short lived (about 4 hours from time of injection), there are no large-scale studies to indicate safety of everyday injections in long-term use. There are studies by anti-aging groups demonstrating that a day or two off per week is adequate to protect the pituitary and its triggers over long cycles. If your use of HGH becomes more a lifestyle than a single cycle, I would consider running it 5 on/2 off, or 6 on/ 1 off until such time as we have reliable data demonstrating long-term safety sans any degradation of your own output or the triggers initiating that output. I have personally experimented with just about every conceivable injection strategy I could devise. What I can say about the anti-aging doctor’s supposition is that it panned out for me. I have recently come off of a 7-year run of HGH. I personally pull my own blood panels every six weeks routinely. After many months of being off of HGH, I now have the same profile I had before I began its use many years ago … high normal for my age. All levels and markers are perfectly normal.

    Another option would be to run your HGH cycle everyday for the first two months to get your IGF-1 levels elevated quickly and to a level to assist you in an anabolic way, then drop back to 5 days a week. If you can tolerate the sides of higher doses, running the same weekly dose divided every other day is fine as well. The list goes on and frankly is an individual proposition. What seems to be of greatest import is that your weekly supplement of HGH is respectable enough to provide the desired benefit.

    TIMING
    As described above, the body produces HGH is a pulsatile fashion throughout the day with the heaviest pulses occurring approximately 2 hours or so after going to bed and as you fall into a deep sleep. Injectible HGH is completely absorbed and put to use within approximately 3 hours. The strategy with respect to timing depends somewhat on our age and the other elements of our cycle. As you will see below, there is no single best strategy … it depends a lot on your individual situation.

    For those that are between their late 20’s and early 50’s, there is still a reasonable chance that your own endogenous production of HGH is at a reasonable level. The best time to take and injection, this being the case, would be early morning …. After your body’s own release of HGH in the night. If you get up to go to the bathroom in the early morning (3 -5am), this is probably the perfect time to take a couple of units of HGH. This will be the least disruptive time to take an injection of HGH. The second best time would be first thing in the morning when you wake up.

    If you are splitting your doses, the two times of the day when your cortisol levels are at peak are when you wake up and in the early afternoon. This being the case, another good strategy is to take your HGH injections at these times. Cortisol is very catabolic by nature and a well -timed HGH injection can go a long way toward blunting this effect.

    If you are in your late 50’s or beyond, or if for some reason you have a condition that has rendered your pituitary incapable of a normal release of HGH, a great time to take HGH is right before bed. This allows you to closely mimic the natural pattern that would occur if your pituitary were functioning properly. For the rest of us, taking your HGH right before bed is going to end up creating a negative feedback loop, robbing you of your body’s own nightly pulse of HGH. While the jury is still out (conflicting studies) as to the absolute nature of the negative feedback time, it is clear that the closer we push our injection to the time our body is ready to give us its biggest pulses of HGH, we are going to end up derailing our own triggers and secretion.

    Yet another strategy should be considered if you are using insulin with your HGH. Insulin should be used immediately post workout. HGH and insulin do some great things together – they shuttle nutrients in a very complimentary way with each other, and the combination of HGH and Insulin create the best environment for IGF-1 production from the liver. If you are using insulin immediately post workout, taking a few IU’s of HGH pre-workout will allow HGH to offer all of its fat mobilizing effects while getting your HGH and Insulin to the liver at about the right time for huge IGF-1 releases.

    SIDE EFFECTS – HOW TO MANAGE THEM
    While HGH for the most part is well tolerated, there are some minor, mostly nuisance side effects that can occur. The biggest and most common side effect is bloating and joint pain. The chances of getting these can be minimized or even eliminated by utilizing the ramp up method discussed above in this guide.

    If you are younger than your late 20’s, it would be very wise to enter an HGH cycle under the guidance of an MD, who can monitor and confirm whether your growth plates have fused. While abnormal bone growth with HGH use is not common, if used at the wrong point in your body’s development, it could cause disproportionate growth.

    If you have a history of cancer or other tumors (at any age), it would be wise to get a complete checkup and be monitored by an MD to make sure that there are no active tumors before your HGH cycle. While HGH (and IGF-1) won’t cause cancer or tumors, they can create an environment that can allow already existing, active tumors to grow at an accelerated rate. We intentionally keep growth factor levels to a minimum in cancer patients. While tumors can create their own growth factors, we really don’t want to throw gas on the fire and allow them to grow any faster than they otherwise could.

    Beyond these considerations, there really isn't anything specific that you would HAVE to take with HGH. There are supplements that you could take for specific conditions that are possible with HGH use. The way people react to HGH is a pretty individual thing. Some people get very little suppression of any kind; others don't see any gains from adding HGH because of significant enough suppression of one kind or another. Here's a general rundown of a few of the bigger ones.

    For the slight thyroid support that may be desired:
    conservative - take nothing
    moderate - t-100x, bladderwrack, coleus forskolin, selenium, zinc, chromium, copper
    aggressive - T3 at a dose of 12.5 - 25 mcgs or T4 at 100mcgs per day.

    For the insulin resistance that is possible:
    conservative - 300mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid and 200 - 300mcgs of Chromium Piccinolate
    moderate - 15mg of Actos - a prescription med to increase insulin sensitivity, Glucophage (Metformin) to dispose of excess glucose and increase uptake in muscles.
    aggressive - add a few IU's of insulin to your HGH cycle

    For healthy test levels to best utilize HGH:
    conservative - do nothing
    moderate - use Tongkat or Tribulus
    aggressive - add 200-300 milligrams (or more) of testosterone weekly to your HGH cycle

    For protection against prostate growth:
    conservative - do nothing
    moderate - use Saw Palmetto (approx 2000mg)
    aggressive - use Proscar or equivalent

    For those that have a problem with breast tissue growth while on HGH:
    For those that suffer from this, there is a difference of opinion as to the cause. In the presence of adequate estrogen, HGH can prompt growth of breast tissue. Also of consideration is that growth hormone, prolactin, and placental lactogen are a subfamily of a large 2-class cytokine superfamily of proteins. The amino acid sequences of hGH and hPL are similar (85% homology). In humans, each of these three proteins can bind hPRL receptors and promote a variety of physiological actions, including breast growth, lactation, and the like.
    The current consensus seems to be that the best approach for those with this problem is twofold - Take 200mg of B6 (or Bromo if B6 is not sufficient) and also use 20-40mg of Tamoxifen (Nolva) to control this. If all else fails, a couple of months of Letro and Bromo will most certainly (and aggressively) deal with the problem. This is a pretty rare condition, but I have talked with more than a few bros that have reported this sort of problem.

    Once again, I wouldn't say that all (or any) of these are necessary for everyone. I would use these supplements as necessary to correct whatever conditions arise with your own HGH use. As stated above, reaction to HGH (and just about anything else we use) is very individual.

    Hopefully this guide has given you a better understanding of HGH and what it can do for you. HGH, especially when used in conjunction with an AAS cycle, will produce some high-quality, lean mass gains. It can also be used in conjunction with IGF-1 and insulin, which will be the topic of a comparative guide, that I will finish writing and get posted one of these days.

    Happy growing! – RedBaron
    Last edited by RedBaron; 01-16-2007 at 03:29 AM.

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    cj1capp's Avatar
    cj1capp is offline Anabolic Member
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    thanks redbaron glad to see you back

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    stocky121 is offline VET~ Recognized Staff Winner - $100
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    GREAT post RB
    no open source posting
    keep all source request's to PM'S please


    someone once said to me a clever man learn's by his own mistake's. But a wise man learn's by the mistake's of other people.


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    Nice. Thanks man.

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    damiongage is offline Anabolic Member
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    I thought this was a sticky

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    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
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    Thank the lord you're back RB!

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    welcome back. By the way your old guide is quoted almost in its entirety on a GenSci site as a how to guide. They did not give you credit, however.
    Last edited by comradebillyboy; 10-06-2006 at 02:21 PM.

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    I have seen the guide and pieces of it scattered around without credit ... a shame really, but I guess it goes with the territory of being on the internet. I am surprised about GenSci though ... I would have thought they would ask first.

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    stocky121 is offline VET~ Recognized Staff Winner - $100
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaron
    I have seen the guide and pieces of it scattered around without credit ... a shame really, but I guess it goes with the territory of being on the internet. I am surprised about GenSci though ... I would have thought they would ask first.

    and to think that people thought you just made stuff RB and you dident know what your talking about great to have you back
    no open source posting
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    someone once said to me a clever man learn's by his own mistake's. But a wise man learn's by the mistake's of other people.


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    Thanks for posting up the info, RB. It's much appreciated.

    AG
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
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    Quote Originally Posted by stocky121
    and to think that people thought you just made stuff RB and you dident know what your talking about great to have you back
    I guess so. I just went to GenSci and sure enough, they posted my guide section by section, word for word as their website's instruction on how to use their product. Sheesh, somewhat surprising.

    I wonder what forum they took it from to copy it to their website ... it would be interesting to know where they were surfing. Then again, as I said the dog-gone thing has been cut and pasted in a whole bunch of places I had never seen or heard of before. I have dropped into sites and saw a bunch of my posts ... stinky part is most of the time it is without the -by RedBaron attached. Oh well, I guess as long as they get some good from it.

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    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
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    Remember mate "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"!

    (At least I think thats the quote)

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    jokerswild is offline New Member
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    Hi RedBaron, I'm curious to know your opinion on the protein peptides and if you have a preference of using the individual, most effective components now to be found; as in IGF-1, MGF, and the fat burning peptide of HGH. Hooker's analysis is that it's better to take them like this, than HGH as a whole. I'd like to know your thoughts...

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    good work , thanks

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    copy-paste-saved into my documents for future reference.
    thanks!

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  17. #17
    givemethejuice is offline Junior Member
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    RB any plans on making another sticky on igf usage and its actions in the body

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    Excellent. Glad your back

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    Quote Originally Posted by givemethejuice
    RB any plans on making another sticky on igf usage and its actions in the body
    Yes actually, I will be making some more posts and guides on that. In my spare time, I have been composing some updated thoughts for a post or two for IGF, HGH, Insulin , and a few other peptides. It will be up to the Mods here whether they are sticky material or not, but I will certainly share them with the community regardless for people to consider.

    I am now finally about done with a research study that I volunteered to assist an associate with (been completely AAS free for a while to do so), so my plan is to give a good shake-out of some of the new offerings and to write some simple posts as to how they best worked for me and my close friends (aka guinea pigs).

    Not sure about the time-line at this point (somewhat the busy season for my profession), but I will get the up as soon as possible.

  20. #20
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    Glad to see your back RB!!

  21. #21
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    Thumbs up Welcome back!

    Great to see you back RB! I was thinking of starting a GH cycle but was dismayed to find all your old posts deleted.

    Glad you're back with all the info again. Hope you stay with us. Reading your posts is a tremendous education.

    cheers
    Last edited by dabigcheese; 10-08-2006 at 02:32 AM.

  22. #22
    dabigcheese's Avatar
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    My apologies to everyone for repeating this "questionnaire". Since RB is back, I thought I'd post these questions again on this thread.

    I been thinking of starting with the Growth and wanted to get some fundamental ideas clear in my head before I took the plunge so to speak.

    The following are my principal reasons for starting with GH:

    (1) I’ve done three roid cycles – all of them gave me good results. I never lost a pound I gained through a roid cycle. I started lifting when I was about 98 Lbs (Im 6’0” tall). Im now 198 Lbs. The problem I have is that I always accumulate a fair bit of fat when Im adding muscle and there seems to be no way to avoid it (Im about 17 percent bodyfat). What I’d ideally like to do is lose fat without losing muscle. And GH is quite good at this – money is not a big issue for me. I could also lose it using cardio but GH also has other benefits so this would be a nice plus.

    (2) I just turned 30 two months ago and started thinking about ageing for the first time. My goal with using GH would be to use it in moderate amounts (no more than 3 IU a day) – the goal would be fat loss and the “arresting” of age related things like the slight wrinkling of the skin etc. I am not looking to gain massive amounts of muscle.

    (3) I am injury prone. My joints aren’t great. I don’t work on my lower body because the tendons around my knee are very weak. So looking for some improvement with connective tissue as well.

    (4) I recently had another injury – a bizarre kind of muscular injury at the bottom of my left bicep. I got it a month ago and stopped working out. It was clearly not a muscle tear because I could move my hand around with no difficulty. It was only when I pulled down on the lat that it really hurt (It has happened to me once before). So I didn’t go to the gym for a month to let it heal. I got back into the gym last week and its still there. I hate this kind of thing. I am certain that if I was on some GH, Id heal faster and better.

    (5) I might run GH for six months and in that time I might stick in a test cycle to add another 10-15 Lbs. Again not looking for huge gains but reasonable, moderate, keepable quality gains.

    My concerns with using growth:

    (1) What effect does GH have on the heart and on blood pressure? My resting pulse is about 60-65 beats a minute and blood pressure is about 110/70 approximately.

    (2) Could one get GH gut from low dosages such as 2-3 IUs (5 on 2 off)?

    (3) I have not been diabetic at any stage in my life. No history of type I diabetes in the family (although my grandfather may have had it – not sure). One of my uncles had type II just before his death but he was almost 80 when he developed it. Does that count? If I did a 6 month cycle at 2 IU a day, would I need glucophage or insulin ?

    (5) Redbaron, you've mentioned at various times in your posts that you get bloodwork done regularly if they are on GH. What does one test for in the bloodwork – glucose levels/cholesterol? All my previous bloodworks have come out normal but I am wondering if there is anything else apart from the usual things that one looks for.

    (6) Is long term usage of GH in low amounts (in cycles and with adequate breaks) a dangerous thing? My theory is that if one only uses the amount of GH that is necessary to supplement natural levels so that they are returned to what they were in, say, the late 20s, it should not be particularly dangerous (assuming no heart problems, diabetes etc). Is this correct?

    Thanks!

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    tanks RB

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    Welcome back.

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    I'll be waiting for the IGF version!

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    My answers in blue below -

    Quote Originally Posted by dabigcheese
    My concerns with using growth:

    (1) What effect does GH have on the heart and on blood pressure? My resting pulse is about 60-65 beats a minute and blood pressure is about 110/70 approximately.

    With a good resting pulse and a naturally low blood pressure, there shouldn't be any cause for alarm at all in that regard. While HGH can be responsible for a bit of a rise in BP, typically it isn't THAT dramatic.

    (2) Could one get GH gut from low dosages such as 2-3 IUs (5 on 2 off)?

    It would be EXTREMELY rare for something like GH gut to develop from such a low dose of HGH. To be honest, I will use 4-5 times that much HGH when on a heavy cycle. I have ran HGH for 7 years and still have a small waist ... no GH gut. The real fact is that GH gut is a bit more complex than taking a few units of growth over a few months. For the vast majority, it involves abuse in all areas - AAS's, Peptides, Foods, and many other peripheral factors.

    (3) I have not been diabetic at any stage in my life. No history of type I diabetes in the family (although my grandfather may have had it not sure). One of my uncles had type II just before his death but he was almost 80 when he developed it. Does that count? If I did a 6 month cycle at 2 IU a day, would I need glucophage or insulin ?

    With what you have just described, I wouldn't say you have a family history to worry about with diabetes. The effect of HGH is pretty individual by nature. Some people actually have very little concern with increased blood glucose levels. Others have skyrocketing levels shortly after starting their cycle. The main thing is to monitor is on occasion, and avoid carb meals aournd the time of your injections. I will typically eat some protein/healthy fat meals around the time of my HGH injections. Glucophage wouldn't be necessary unless you noticed that your BG levels were getting up their beyond the point of comfort (for me they have shot up to about 200 as a fasting level in the morning). If you are posting those kind of numbers, then it is time to resort to a glucose disposal agent along the line of glucophage. Short of that, with careful attention to diet and injection timing, the vast majority of HGH users can manage their BG levels just fine without anything other than a tight reign on diet and potentially some OTC supps (GTF Chromium, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Cinammon, etc.).



    (5) Redbaron, you've mentioned at various times in your posts that you get bloodwork done regularly if they are on GH. What does one test for in the bloodwork glucose levels/cholesterol? All my previous bloodworks have come out normal but I am wondering if there is anything else apart from the usual things that one looks for.

    I watch for several things. I watch my RBC counts, I monitor my IGF levels, I do watch my a1c and cholesterol levels, and I watch my liver and kidney functions. As far as specifically dealing with HGH, there really aren't THAT many concerns in and of itself ... if used in conjunction with cycle, I would monitor what I have mentioned above. If used on its own, then I would pull a1c's on yourself, and if you are interested in the effect the HGH is having on you, I would also keep an eye on your IGF levels ... they will be a good indication of what the HGH is up to ... and will help you set your doses to the high norm for a 20 year old (sounds like what you're attempting with your program).

    (6) Is long term usage of GH in low amounts (in cycles and with adequate breaks) a dangerous thing? My theory is that if one only uses the amount of GH that is necessary to supplement natural levels so that they are returned to what they were in, say, the late 20s, it should not be particularly dangerous (assuming no heart problems, diabetes etc). Is this correct?
    You are correct. With intelligent use, there really isn't going to be a concern with your HGH use. You could use if for 6 months or 6 years if you like. With attention to your injection schedule and adequate breaks for your body to retain its own natural triggers and processes, long-term HGH is a pretty safe venture.

    Thanks!

  27. #27
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    Thumbs up Thanks!

    RedBaron,

    A wealth of information in your reply. Thank you for such a detailed response.

    cheers,

    D
    Last edited by dabigcheese; 10-09-2006 at 02:28 AM.

  28. #28
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    two thumbs up RB!!!!!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaron
    I have seen the guide and pieces of it scattered around without credit ... a shame really, but I guess it goes with the territory of being on the internet. I am surprised about GenSci though ... I would have thought they would ask first.
    any time or any place i have posted your guide i have always paid homage to you. I also post your entire work not just bits and pieces. Much respect to you RedBaron. cj

  30. #30
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    Thanks for the info

  31. #31
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    RedBaron,

    Is the a1c test necessary if one tests blood glucose levels very regularly using a standard testing kit at home and the levels are found to be normal?

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    I always rely on my a1c to tell me the real story of what is happening. You can buy an a1c home test kit at places like Target, Walmart, and most pharmacies. They cost $14-20 and they are actually the same ones that are used in some diabetic clinics (the ones that insurance will actually reimburse the 20 bucks in lieu of a couple hundred dollar blood panel from a lab). They are reasonably acurate and aren't very difficult at all to use.

    Spot checking with a glucose meter gives you a point in time indication of whether you have a problem or not, and is great for determining if you are hypo or hyper at that particular moment ... but it really doesn't give you a "whats happening over time" look at your BG levels. I have taken my BG levels and thought I was perfectly okay, only to find out that my a1c was cruising at 7-7.5% (should be 5-6%).

    I guess bottom liine is while the BG meters will give you some valuable information, the safest bet is to invest 15-20 bucks and check your a1c. If your a1c reading is about 5-6 %, then everything is great. If it is 7% or above, then it is time to take some form of action to get it down.


    Quote Originally Posted by dabigcheese
    RedBaron,

    Is the a1c test necessary if one tests blood glucose levels very regularly using a standard testing kit at home and the levels are found to be normal?
    Last edited by RedBaron; 10-13-2006 at 09:23 AM.

  33. #33
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    Thanks RedBaron. How often do you run the a1c test?

    It seems that the a1c test at home kits haven't arrived on this side of the pond yet. I hope Im wrong.
    Last edited by dabigcheese; 10-13-2006 at 11:46 AM.

  34. #34
    doublefister is offline Associate Member
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    I have been asking this for some time now but is there a limit on how much you can inject at one time? So far I am getting responses like 4IU's at a time, but what about guys doing over 15IU's a day?

    Right now I am on 7IU's a day doing injections twice a day and working my way up to 10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dabigcheese
    Thanks RedBaron. How often do you run the a1c test?

    It seems that the a1c test at home kits haven't arrived on this side of the pond yet. I hope Im wrong.
    I will typically run an a1c a couple of times over the course of a 6 month HGH cycle. That along with the spot checks via a BG meter give me a good indication of what the HGH is doing to my insulin sensitivity.

    I am surprised that the a1c kits haven't made over to your side of the pond. Here is a link to the manufacturer of the only kit currently made available for home use - http://www.metrika.com/distributors/distributors.php Maybe one of this distributor links can help you find out whether they are available in stores in your area or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doublefister
    I have been asking this for some time now but is there a limit on how much you can inject at one time? So far I am getting responses like 4IU's at a time, but what about guys doing over 15IU's a day?

    Right now I am on 7IU's a day doing injections twice a day and working my way up to 10.
    There isn't really a limit of how much you CAN inject at a time ... I and many bodybuilders have experimented with some pretty extreme doses (20 IU's at a time). That shouldn't be the real question though ... the question you should ask is if there is a more efficient way to inject than others.

    The answer of course is somewhat individual in nature ... depending on your gender, age, natural hormone levels, tolerance to HGH in general, size, level of fitness, etc., etc. The answer that you hear about 3-4 IU's per injection is based on a general observation that injecting in that fashion seems to get your IGF levels up with the minimal application of exogenous HGH. Since it is still none too cheap, the quest is to get maximum benefit with minimum investment. Holding your injects to ~4 or so IU's at a time just seems to generally get that accomplished ... and keep sides to a manageable level. At least in my experience, mega-doses will almost immediatly result in joint pain and CTS to the point of making working out difficult for a while.

    Outside of those types of considerations, there really isn't a hard and fast rule as to dose limitations. Some are experimenting with ~20 IU injects twice a week. Some will take a couple of 4-5 IU injects each day 5-6 days a week. Some will break it up into 3 IU injects, 3 times a day ... and the list goes on and on. It will really just boil down to a little personal experimentation to see what works best for your body.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaron
    I will typically run an a1c a couple of times over the course of a 6 month HGH cycle. That along with the spot checks via a BG meter give me a good indication of what the HGH is doing to my insulin sensitivity.

    I am surprised that the a1c kits haven't made over to your side of the pond. Here is a link to the manufacturer of the only kit currently made available for home use - http://www.metrika.com/distributors/distributors.php Maybe one of this distributor links can help you find out whether they are available in stores in your area or not.
    Thanks RedBaron. I guess the solution for me would be to order it from the US. I have looked extensively on the internet for the kit in the UK and couldn't find any.

    I wonder if any of the UK based bros have bought it? There are a lot of guys that have used GH at our forum.

  38. #38
    doublefister is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaron
    There isn't really a limit of how much you CAN inject at a time ... I and many bodybuilders have experimented with some pretty extreme doses (20 IU's at a time). That shouldn't be the real question though ... the question you should ask is if there is a more efficient way to inject than others.

    The answer of course is somewhat individual in nature ... depending on your gender, age, natural hormone levels, tolerance to HGH in general, size, level of fitness, etc., etc. The answer that you hear about 3-4 IU's per injection is based on a general observation that injecting in that fashion seems to get your IGF levels up with the minimal application of exogenous HGH. Since it is still none too cheap, the quest is to get maximum benefit with minimum investment. Holding your injects to ~4 or so IU's at a time just seems to generally get that accomplished ... and keep sides to a manageable level. At least in my experience, mega-doses will almost immediatly result in joint pain and CTS to the point of making working out difficult for a while.

    Outside of those types of considerations, there really isn't a hard and fast rule as to dose limitations. Some are experimenting with ~20 IU injects twice a week. Some will take a couple of 4-5 IU injects each day 5-6 days a week. Some will break it up into 3 IU injects, 3 times a day ... and the list goes on and on. It will really just boil down to a little personal experimentation to see what works best for your body.
    Thanks Red... I guess I'll trying injecting all 7IU's at once instead of doing injections twice a day and see how that goes.

  39. #39
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    redbaron great post. everone i read. i like to knw how u rear ur blood work so u knw wht the numbers mean for ur igf levels ,and everthing else so i can knw wht my base line is and how to check it.

    also wht a good level to raise ur igf levels to. i will be taking igf and hgh with some diff aas for about a 14 week deal and i like to keep a close check on my bg an a1c level mostly.

    also how does someone learn how far back to dial back or up there train to gain size. im only looking to gain 25 to 30 in all my total gains and keep as much as i can of that. i hit the weights hard and i get strong but i dont see to much growth. or does that matter with igf and hgh cycles.

  40. #40
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    You just answered all of my HGH questions. Thanks


    Dfreak

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