Anabolic Member
I'm curious to know (anyone who runs over a gram of Test)
1. How long you ran it for
2. Did you run into any major sides
3. What long term issues can one expect (besides going sterile) RBC count, etc...
Basically I just want to hear peoples experience with it.
Thanks,
BLT
Last edited by buylongterm; 10-20-2004 at 03:49 PM.
Anabolic Member
You being on HRT for what, approaching a year now? And also you are cheating and taking BB doses of testosterone and not just what your HRT would like, have you had issues with RBC? Had to go donate blood yet to get it down, etc? My recent physical showed me over normal high on my RBC count. Doctor did not know about my steroid use, only told him I been on tongkat ali all year and he somewhat suggested I go donate a pint but not super critical in his opinion. What he didnt know is I plan to get my ass back on steroids again over the next month so I am thinking I better get my RBC count back down.Originally Posted by buylongterm
BTW, if I were you, and you are pretty much doing minimum of 10 times natural testosterone levels year round now, you should stay where you are at. Just my opinion but every few months you see someone post a message about a famous 41 year old BB that had massive heart attack and stroke, even not too long ago a 34 year old croaked and it was easy for us all to figure out. The guy was a muscle magazine cover boy, 270 lbs and 4% BF... obviously a year around gram or more juicer... hate to see you find an early grave like these guys as well.
Anabolic Member
Thanks bro for the comment. I haven't been on HRT in months. I have been doing a cycle since June. I haven't been responding well to TEST (My diet is decent). so I upped the dosage to 800-1000mg EW along with EQ (400mg) and Fina (50mg). I've had no issues with RBC, but again, I haven't been checked in months. To me, serious body builders do a lot more than 1g of test. I do NOT want to be on year round. I'm just wondering if 4-6months of doing a high dose of test is going to kill me. I want to make sure I take every precaution.
Last edited by buylongterm; 10-20-2004 at 02:22 PM.
Anabolic Member
Bump....
Come on now, we have to have guys who run big doses.....
Banned
sorry 700mg of prop a week is most i have been on for 16 weeks.
wasn't a similar thread started recently?
i did 3.5 grams of test/week for about 10 weeks this past fall/winter 2003. I ran it with 600mg eq/week. gains were incredible and i kept i'd say all of them. the only sides i got were zits all over my back which have cleared up. recovery was a bitch but i sucked it up, did good pct, and trained just as hard.
A.A.
Anabolic Member
3.5g of test?? WOW! Thats a ****load. Why so much? Do you have an issue responding to test?
Banned
holy................
Banned
i just added that up you did the same amount of test in 3 weeks than i did in my 15 week prop cycle......
Retired VET
i ran a cycle back before the summer..900mg/TEST E and 700mg prop each week along with 80-160mg tren ed..dd ths for about 6 months.did it while cutting...yeah,go figure.anyway i accomplished what i set out to do.droped about 40lbs and went from 15%bf to 8% without losing much if any muscle.pct wasnt bad,had blood done about 6 weeks after cycle and all was good.would i do it again?? probably not,i dont think the gains are any better at higher doses.but then again,my current cycle isnt that lite either
Anabolic Member
AnabolicAlien,
3.5 grams of test? I'm no going to take that bait--I won't comment. But I'll acknowledge that I did read it.
BLT,
What a coincidence that I recently mentioned RBC count to you and someone's mentioning it in your thread. I got your PM. I'll respond to the rest of it later tonight. But for now, here's my take on this thread:
1. You already know my views on low doses. If you're not growing on the doses you've used so far, then there's a weak link in either your diet, rest, or training routines.
2. Ntpadude is spot on. There are many silent issues that people forget about when cycling, such as red blood cell count. This silent issues are ones that can cause the greatest damage if they aren't monitored. I'm glad that donating blood can bring down RBC count. I didn't know that. I will be looking into doing exactly that this coming week. My RBC count is high. But, I digress. Back to you...
3. If you feel that you need to do a gram of testosterone, then do it. It's your body. (I'm not being smug here). What I'm saying is that you need to experiment to find what works and doesn't work for you.
Last edited by BASK8KACE; 10-20-2004 at 04:56 PM.
New Member
When you guys say "Sterile" is that for good? Or just until you stop taking the steroids?
Banned
sterility can be for good......
i also have a hard time believing 3.5gs a week...especially if he only ran it with EQ....someone who is running that much test should be running a lot of other things...as well as being pro lol
why do you say that? i got amps of omna's for under 4 dollars each so i wanted to experiment. i was thinking of competing and never got around to it. my buddy who is a pro told me to try it. he tells me he shoots a minimum of 2 grams a week (basically a 10cc bottle of test/week).
anyways, i'm not doing it again. the sides sucked. i did get "jact".
A.A.
Member
was doin 1gm of super test 250 wk, was underdosed so i added 200mg of prop wk and 600mg of test enan and got some good results with that
Member
I am 1,000mg/wk Enanthate last 6 weeks. Will bump to 1,250 next month.
Plan to contine the cycle until i reached my goal.
So far side consist of a few zits on my back - no more than i'd get from a pizza and pepsi binge.
I am on anti-depressants, which might explain why to date my mood have been "normal".
I don't drink, smoke or drugs. Eating is clean.
I also don't ever plan on having kids - so fertility is not an issue.
I've yet to read about the 1960's or 70's crop of bodybuilder dropping like fly's from their 8-10,000mg/wk doses. I've read medical reports claiming elevated test levels protects internal organs from toxicity in mice (obviously doesn't include oral test).
Banned
BLT...if your gonna do it...i would keep it in the 8-12 wk range...im going 12 weeks on this one, but im already planing my bulker for next winter, and i think i wanna run 8 weeks...those long cycles of bulking are tough...i agree in dieting for at least 15 weeks...but bulking for that long was **** hard...and i feel like i got off my diet after about 2 months too and got lazy on my protein intake cause i was so sick of eating...
but like i told you at AM...i didnt feel much from the test until the 750-1g mark...and 1g gave me no more sides than 500mg
Anabolic Member
I think we have issues with dosages. I was going what I thought was 1.5 grams of shanghai labs test enanthate, then when I was in Mexico this summer I brought back some walmart test enanthate and also some vet sust. I actually found the walmart test was way strong, I felt a pretty good jolt trying to inject 1.5 grams of that as compared to SL Test en. I dont know what the dosage difference is, but I am confident the SL test en wasnt any higher then about 160 to 170 mg and the walmart test was probably dosed as labeled at 250. I have heard from people using DL gear which has a reputation of being at or over dosed, that guys coming from experience with SL, Zencall, and other underground labs that they too are caught off guard when dosing with properly dosed gear.
My thing is, you "think" you are dosing with 1 gram of gear, but chances are its really 600 or 700 mg if its an underground lab.... then come and try something like DL and you get a big shock because now you are dosing 1 gram for real. This complicates everything because too many of us are injecting underdosed 170 mg testosterone and thinking its 250 mg.
Senior Member
Why is that so hard to believe? Look at Ronnie Coleman. I doubt he's doing 500mg/wk 12 on 12 off with PCT. I'm on 750mg/week sus, 100mg/day tren and will be adding 100mg/day/ prop. I may add 400mg/week of cyp to that along with 700 of EQ when I'm done with tren. I got a little gyno last time I did these doses but I'm on close to 6 weeks now and no sides. My weights staying close to 200 as I drop body fat. I can see me trying super high doses in the future maybe for 10-16 weeks. I judge when to back off by side effects. I have an I-stat machine in the ER so I can test my blood every week if I want. My main thing is maintaining healthy BP. I really don't believe you can permanently sterilize yourself no matter how high the doses unless you are a teenager.
Anabolic Member
Almost no one (and most likely no one at all ) on these boards is in the same class of bodybuilding as Ronnie Coleman. Average joes trying to get big in the gym do not need to take the same amount of steroids and do the same routines as Ronnie Coleman to get a good looking body. It's just down right ridiculous for someone who is barely 200 lbs to be comparing their doses and routines to the bodybuilding stars. That's like an upper middle class person looking to buy a home in an area where multi-billionaires normally buy homes.
Until these mega dose users who claim to make 35 lb gains per cycle start posting progress pictures, I will continue to say that the average joe (and "joe-ette" um....josephine) do not need to take mega doses of steroids to grow. Why is it that all the mega dose users who claim to grow so fast haven't posted pictures?
It's not hard to believe that people stuff themselves full of unnecessary amounts of steroids. But there has not been a reasonable amount of proof to support these people who say they gain 25-35 lbs of only muscle on EVERY mega-dose cycle they do. That's far-fetched and down right untrue.
Last edited by BASK8KACE; 10-21-2004 at 01:53 PM.
basketcase.... i have pics... why is it so hard to believe i megadosed for a few months? i'm not looking for a flame, just wondering... and i never compare myself to any of the pro's mainly b/c i don't have much respect for any of them especially compared to the pro's of the past.
A.A.
Anabolic Member
AA,
If you've read my posts, you'll find that I never said I didn't believe you. In fact in my last post I said that I do "believe that people stuff themselves full of unnecessary amounts of steroids." Even in my first post, I never said I didn't belive you. That wasn't the point of my posts. I was only making the points that: (1) mega-doses for the average (or above average) person trying to get big while using steroids is unnecessary, and (2) People who are no where near the calibre of elite bodybuilders are misguided if they try to take the same doses and try to follow the same routine as the bodybuilding stars
If you've read any of my posts on the board then you probably know where I stand on this issue. My first post in this thread was written toung-and-cheek. It was not a flame.
I was only saying in a joking manner, "AA, you might know my views on low versus high doses and I'm trying to restrain myself from talking about it again."
Last edited by BASK8KACE; 10-21-2004 at 03:01 PM.
Anabolic Member
I didn't mean to hijack this thread. Can someone please answer BLT's question (above)?
Associate Member
Well just stopping in,i do 1g of test 600 tren-e,50mg var at this time and 300 deca for my shoulder.Been around 8 months just a little more zits on my back ,and i cranked the deca to 800 at the begining.Never had erection problems like they say with deca,and blood preassure stay slightly elivated i'm 120 and its stays 140.But the strength is unreal!
Senior Member
yeah i like 3-4 month cycles 5 at most....but anything longer that that you can run into problems
Member
I understood markas214's point.
He is not comparing himself to Ronnie Colman.
I think he was pointing out, in the world of steroid use, the amounts you think are enormous, in reality, are not that big.
I know more people using north of 750 a week than not - and not because i only know heavy users, but because to achieve worthwhile gains, the average joe (say 6 foot, 200-260lbs) will achieve greater gains at higher doses than not.
Make sense?
Junior Member
thats why i adore bask8kace's view about steroids, being safe is the most important part of this business.
Member
This is the only pic i have to date. In it i weighed ~220lbs.
Cycle was a long strectch of dbol and deca.
Judging from past posts, my impression is you measure anything above 750 as a mega-dose.It's not hard to believe that people stuff themselves full of unnecessary amounts of steroids. But there has not been a reasonable amount of proof to support these people who say they gain 25-35 lbs of only muscle on EVERY mega-dose cycle they do. That's far-fetched and down right untrue.
I'm currently closer to 240lbs.. body fat relatively the same.
Doses are 1g a week. At the time, at lower doses, i eventually peaked, and was all about maintenance. In order to gain, i upped. So i did, and gained.
I don't have a pic of me on this cycle.
If i could get by on smaller doses i would (my wallet would thank me also), but if i wanna get bigger, i know what i have to do.
Associate Member
Just my two sents;
I am on a shot of omnadren EOD and 100mg of prop ED which puts me at about 1500mg a week. I have been on for 3months now. I just started up the omnadren and was running prop(200mg ED)/tren(75MG ED)(8weeks) since end of july. I am doing my cycle until january. I am gonna do the omnadren right through till end of november, throw in some tren again at 100mg ED for 6 weeks starting November 1 and some anadrol at 100mg ED during this time aswell as run insulin at 10IU Post workout. Any thoughts
Anabolic Member
Bro, you can hijack my thread anytime. I really like the responses from this post...
Anabolic Member
I have to agree with Bask8kace. Trust me, I was a HUGE advocate of small doses. Like most people know, I exploded with only 250mg of TEST and 200mg of EQ for my first cycle. If someone were to ask me about doses, I always will tell them to start small. My trouble is with my 2nd cycle, I jumpstarted it with DBOL 2 different times and nothing. (and YES, They were real). So, I wasn't seeing the gains with my 2nd cycle and now my 3rd cycle, so the first thing I assume is that I'm having issues with responding to steroids. I still in a way believe that. I am a VERY VERY hard gainer. I know that. My genetics suck. I grew up with low TEST levels and I could never get big. So, thinking my diet was decent, I upped the doses. I've read and talked with many guys and most of them say the MAGIC doesn't start happening until you do over 800mg of TEST. I tried 800mg, and got better results, but then I upped it to a gram. Even at a gram of TEST, I still get NO sides, NO water weight, Nothing. Again, in the back of my mind, Though I don't want water weight, I still assume that I'm not resonding well to steroids. It's very psychlogical. I guess I am sick and tired of hearing everyone gaining 15-25pounds on there cycle. But, like Bask8kace said, most of it is fat and water and since I don't gain water nor that much fat, my results don't sound right. I am not going to look at the scale anymore. I'm up about 12pounds or so for the last few months. My lifts are up big time. I have great muscle hardness. I'm nowhere near the weight I want to be. But, having a bad shoulder, It's also hard to put up heavy weights. So, I am just going to have patience. I have to because for awhile, I was stuck in a horrible pattern. after my first cycle, I blew out my right shoulder and had to take 4 months off from the gym. 2nd cycle, I blew out my left shoulder and had to take almost 5 months off from the gym. So, I have to be consistent because everytime I start a new cycle, I'm right back where I started. I am going to continue to be smart and have a consistent training program. Its going to take longer, but I've got all the time in the world. Thanks to a lot of great bro's, I'm going to concentrate on my diet. I spent way to much time on protein intake vs clean calories. I was NOT eating enough!!!!
I agree with NTPADUDE in terms of dosing. I've tried tons of underground gears. You name it I've tried them. I am now on Zencall with some DL ready to be opened (I'm very excited).
Will I continue high doses? Yes, for now I am for a few more weeks. Only because I have no sides at that dose. I will then I will taper my test back down to my HRT levels.
Senior Member
That wasn't my point. My reply was aimed at a poster who was insinuating a guy who claimed to take 3 1/2 grams of test a week was lying. I have said repeatedly that large doses can be done but it depends on a persons goals and willingness to accept the increase risk of negative health issues and side effects. I know guys who mega dose and even with huge amounts of test and HGH only put 10 lbs of solid muscle each year. Low dose vs high dose isn't sh*t without diet and years of dedicated training. I am not a high dose advocate for casual users or novices. Very few people have the dedication and tolerance for such doses and lifestyle changes needed to make them work. I have pictures up. I started training 03/2003 after a 7 year layoff at 205 24% bodyfat. I'm now 200lbs and 14%. Basiacally an increase of 15 lbs of lean weight in 1 1/2 years. I'm 43. I used moderate doses 750mg/wk test with 250mg/wk doses cruising between 12-16 week cycles. On since last Sept.
Retired Moderator
3.5G of test? No one on this board has done that.
Made Up Of Wires
Anabolic Member
Pork Chop,
By posting that picture of you, you've proven my point. That picture is not clear. It doesn't show your body and your arms are not as big as I'd expect from a 240lb muscle man. I'm not flaming you, I'm making a point. Why doesn't that picture show your stomach or you legs? Where are the mega-dosing, fast gainers with CLEAR pictures that show their entire body?
When you get a CLEAR picture of you, then post it and we'll talk about it. But until then, I'm assuming that your stomach isn't showing because you have more fat on you than you're willing to admit. Which tends to be the same theme with these mega dosers who claim to gain so much weight so fast.
You've misinterpreted my posts. To clarify:
--Anything above 700mg of ALL steroids stacked together, I consider high-dose
--Anything above 1 gram of ALL steroids stacked together, I consider VERY high dose.
Most people who are using 750mg of test, are not doing a test-only cycle. They are stacking it with 600mg of deca or eq and other steroids (in excess of 1.3 grams of steroids). High and very high total doses are what I consider to be too much for someone who only has 5 cycles under his belt.
BLT,
The side effects that I wish people would be more concerned about are the silent ones. I wonder if you checked your RBC count, blood pressure, and stress on you heart while taking those doses. These silent killers are the problem, not the water-weight or gyno. The silent killers are the things I wish people would realize can hurt you.
For example:
High RBC count leads to thick blood, which moves slowly (think of molasses) and delivers less oxygen to the brain (stroke). If your RBC count gets too high you can feel great one moment and have a stroke the next.
These are the things that people are not considering and they should when they start choosing doses, especially if they plan to do several cycles during their lifetime.
Having said all that, I am glad that you have not any obvious problems thus far.
Last edited by BASK8KACE; 10-22-2004 at 12:35 PM.
Member
Pic is not clearest.. regardless my handles don't appear to be spilling over my belt.
I was 220 in there.
Arms cold 18".
Anyways.. i'm confused.
Last edited by Pork Chop; 10-22-2004 at 12:25 PM.
Anabolic Member
Pork Chop,
It took a lot of guts to post your pic in the middle of a heated debate. So, please don't take my comments as flames. You look solid. I just wish there was more for us to see. Congrats on your progress. You should be--as I believe you are--happy about the gains you've made thus far.
I also appreciate the lively debate this has sparked. I'm glad you're joining in.
Cheers,
BASK8KACE
Member
Thanks.
Member
Thanks.
Anabolic Member
alot of people on here know my stance and belief in lowdose cycling. i know that mikexxl, bask8, and a few other guys have come out and supported our belief and experienced the great results we have.
i also agree with bask8 on the fact that all these "megadose "guys tend to be fat guys IMO. i can honestly say, on this board, i have yet to see one person who is a megadose guy that A.) has posted a picture with their "35 lbs of QUALITY gains" B.) look asthetically pleasing at all, or C.) even resembles a bodybuilder in terms of symmetry, clean lines, density, and seperation.
i am one who is never happy and constantly making improvements SLOWLY as bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint. i like clean, quality, slow gains that are retainable. i don't need to put on 25 lbs per cycle( 10lbs water, 8 lbs bodyfat, and 7lbs of muscle). i just structure my diet to take the 7lbs of muscle and minimal bf gains.
i would put my body up against any of these guys on the board that say they are pushing 2.5-3 grams a week when it comes to quality versus quantity
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