Catabolic Kids Insulin Cycle

[catabolic kid]

Day 1(10/28/04)

4:00- trained triceps,decent workout.

5:20- injected 6ius of humulin r into right bicep(pwo)

5:20- 75gram sugar, 10gram creatine and 46 gram protein

6:15-75gram sugar and 10 gram of creatine(cell tech) and 46 gram protein

7:15-4 oz chicken breast

8:15- can of tuna

9:15-can of tuna

10:45-protein shake(55 g of protein)


* approx. 230 grams of protein after shot. Had 2 servings of cell tech mixed with whey protein, one at 5:20 and the other at 6:15, as you can see above. Anyway, i never once felt hypo after the shot. Today(10/29/04) I am going straight up to 10 ius and i will inject it IM 15 minutes before workout is over. I will post tomorrow to let you guys know whats what.

[catabolic kid]

Day 2 (10/29/04)

4:00- Trained legs, good workout

5:00- injected 10 ius humulin r into left bicep (20 minutes before end of workout).

5:20- end of workout-cell tech with whey protein

6:15- cell tech with whey protein

7:30- chicken breast 6oz

9:00- can of tuna

10:30- protein shake


*so the main difference today was that I injected 10 ius, 20 minutes earlier. Once i injected, i went back and did another 2 heavy sets of leg presses, lasting 20 minutes. I never had any signs of Insulin shock. I actually would like to have some kind of sides so that I would at least know this is working. I am sure that i could have taken 20 ius and ingested no sugar and would be fine. I know most of you would "flame" or whatever but I never get the full effects of any hormones I introduce to my body.

[TheChosenOne]

Whatever you do DO NOT TAKE 20 IU's without CHO!!!! Listen you can say what you want about not getting results from AAS but its F*ckin insulin the laws of physics and nature insist that you would go hypo and go hypo in a hurry. It may be a bit more delayed being that you are takin in Humalin (not a good choice ideally) but you would be guarenteed to see negative effects regardless about whatever you think about your body and its reaction to AAS. Exogenous Insulin would force every last ounce of CHO into your cells and therefore leave your blood sugar at nothing. When you get to that point you get really f*cked up!!

BE SAFE!!

[catabolic kid]

I would never inject 20 ius, thanx for the concern though. Maybe I am just being impatient. But, again, I would like to feel some sides to know that it is working. Any other comments?

[DEVLDOG]

why do you want to FEEL sides?? do you have reason to believe your slin is not good?? i know if you were using humalog and shot it and went back and did 2 sets of heavy leg presses you would probably be lyng on the floor going hypo.for just starting out,you dont seem to be to responsable with it.and its good to see you are geting alot of protien in pwo/ppwo but even with slin you can still only assimulate so much..maybe just a bit overill there with 230g

[bluethunder]

See sides??? Your logic is unfounded as the only side you could get is 6' under. Rethink.

[catabolic kid]

OK what I mean is I would like to feel some symptoms of insulin shock. Xample- drowsiness, any changes to know that this is working. I bought it the other day from walgreens so I know it is not fake, I just think its me.

[catabolic kid]

Day 3 (10/30/04)

2:00- trained biceps

2:30- shot 10ius of humulin into right bicep(30 min before pwo)

3:00- end of workout-cell tech and protein

4:00- cell tech and protein

5:00-can of tuna

6:00- 6oz chicken breast


*OK i trained biceps at 2 and at 2:30 injected, did not have carbs until 30 minutes later. No symptoms of hypo. I really dont think this is having an effect on my body. So, tomorrow(10/30/04) I will take a shot of the humulin(IM) and(without eating any carbs) an hour later i will take my blood sugar and than compare it to my normal level, just to see if this is working or not. But, like I said I worked out for thirty minutes after injecting with no carbs and felt normal. So, instead of instead of telling me "my logic is unfounded," tell me why I can do this and continue to workout with no problems.

[TheChosenOne]

Be careful! Tell someone you trust to monitor you in the event you do go hypo so that they can give you Sugar immediately. If you are going to play around with slin you need to make 100% sure you have someone who is aware of the situation at hand to make sure nothing drastic transpires.

[Gear]

Just relised your first post saying that you had 6IU and 75g of dex. 75g of dex is too much when taking 6IU. Remember, 10g of carbs for every 1IU of slin. So 6IU would equal to 60g of dex max. So you may be having a bit too much dex which quite possibly could be getting stored as fat (and also the reason why you dont feel hypo). The "10g carbs for every 1IU of slin is just a "maximum safe dex dosage" guideline. Everyone is different. You cold even try having 50g dex and 6IU and see how you feel, if no hypo symptoms then drop the dex dosage to even lover than 50g. Just go by how you feel. When I take 10IU, I have 60g dex and I feel just on the edge sort of, but alright once I've had a few sips of Coca Cola. This way I know that the dex I am taking is all getting sucked in and not getting stored. Once you start feeling hypo, then you know the you should not take any less carbs than you are. Your carb intake after insulin should be just enough to keep you out of hypo. BG monitor is a good little tool that will help you fine tune your diet. Good luck.

P.S. Taking slin with no carbs is probably the worst idea you will/have ever come up with. Once hypo symptoms hit you big time, it will give you a scare of your life. Do not do this.

[Gear]

One more thing I forgot, your PWO protein intake should be more then 46g, more like 75g when using Insulin. Then after that, you can keep your protein intake at about 46g for your first proper meal and so on...

[catabolic kid]

Gear, thanx for the advise. Even when i went to 10 ius i still only had 75 grams of dextrose. Also, I did not feel any signs of insulin shock on day three(see what i did differently on day 3).

Oh yeah, GEAR, I have been having an average of 220 grams of protein pwo or during humulins active period (see day 1). Why would I want so much protein pwo when the active period for the insulin I am using is not until a little later.

[catabolic kid]

Day 4 (10/31/04)


*Orite, today I am not working out and I decided not to take 10 ius in the am. Tomorrow (11/1/04) I will work out chest and I plan on taking 10 ius (IM) 30 minutes before my workout ends (remember i am using the slower acting humulin r). So, I will post tomorrow or as soon as i can for am update.

[Gear]

Gear, thanx for the advise. Even when i went to 10 ius i still only had 75 grams of dextrose. Also, I did not feel any signs of insulin shock on day three(see what i did differently on day 3).

Oh yeah, GEAR, I have been having an average of 220 grams of protein pwo or during humulins active period (see day 1). Why would I want so much protein pwo when the active period for the insulin I am using is not until a little later.

You may take your dex, creatine and glutamine right away. And take your protein shake a little later on as it gets closer to the start of on-set time. Take advantage of the insulin active period as that is when most of your nutrition is sucked in a lot more than if you weren't using Insulin.

[Gear]

As for you not feeling any hypo symptoms when having 10IU and 75g dex, like I mentioned in one of my above posts, just go by how you feel. If no hypo symptoms then drop the dex intake to even lower. Once you start getting symptoms, then you know not to have your dex intake any lower than you have.

[catabolic kid]

GEAR, thanks for the advise, you have been alot of help as usual. I read alot of your posts that say to take 5-7 grams of creatine, 5 grams of glutamine and your dex immediately after your shot and than protein 15 minutes later. But I assume this is for those who use humalog ( which I cant get) and not HUmulin r. Humulin R starts its initial effects 30 min after injection when administered IM. So this is why I wait 30 minutes until I take in any nutrients. The timing of nutrients can not be the same for humulin and humalog, right? So why would I want to take anyhting right away since humulin does not take its effects right away. By my nutrient timing I thought and still think I am taking full advantage of the effects of insulin.

[Gear]

Not a problem, anytime. Remember, Humalin R on-set time is 30 min. This refers to Sub-Q. You said you are doing IM. On-set time of Sub-Q is cut in half when doing IM no matter what type of Insulin you use. Well may not be excatly half a time of Sub-Q, but around that. So if you are doing IM Humalin R, your on-set time would be around the 15 minute mark. Ok now as for you nutritional intake when using Humalin R. First of all, I would like to say when using Humalin R and having injections 30 or 15 min (depending if you are doing Sub-Q or IM) prior to end of training, always have a carbohydrate drink on you, because as we all know, sh*t can happen. Ok, now, even though Humalin R doesn't really start working till the 30/15 minute mark, it still has a small effect in our body when taken right away. This is why people say Humalin R has a very slow peak. If you have a look at the graph that I will post in my next post, you can clearly see that Humalin R slowly climbs up towards it peak, and once it reaches its peak it comes down even slower. Where-as Humalog climbs a lot faster.
Anyway, when taking Humalin R, before it gets to its effective enough point (30/15 min point after injection), along with training, even though it is climbing up towards its peak very slowly, it is still taking effect, but very very slowly. And with weight lifting at the same time, your chances of going hypo are even higher. This is why it is a good idea to have your dex right after injection. I personally have been taking Insulin quite a bit recently, and have been using myself as a gini pig (like RedBaron likes to say) and experimenting with myself hoping to find what is best for me. I have found that when I use Humalin R and inject 30 min prior to end of training, I feel I must have a carb drink at about the 10 min mark after injection, otherwise I really start feeling dizzy etc etc. I suppose it also depends on how hard you are pushing yourself when training, because the harder you train the more and quiker your BG levels will drop. I then usually have my shake about 20 min after my carb drink (30 min mark). This refers to Sub-Q. I have also taken my carb drink at the end of training one time (30 min mark), and my protein shake about 15 min after that. So I suppose there is a few ways of taking care of your nutrition when it comes to using Hmalin R because everyone reacts differently. Personally, I dont like Humalin R, its a pain in the ass, and too much maintainance. Like I said before, there is a few ways you can take care of your nutriotion when it comes to using Humalin R, but when it comes to Humalog there is only one rule, and that counts for everyone. It acts so fast, every one that uses Humalog, will have their carbs within 10 - 15 min post injection. This once again refers to Sub-Q.

[Gear]

Take a look at the difference in peak times/speed between LOG and R...

[angelxterminator]

that's also sub-q, so i would divide those times by two for IM roughly.

[Gear]

that's also sub-q, so i would divide those times by two for IM roughly.

Ohh yeah, thanx, I forgot to mention that graph was based for for Sub-Q injections.

[catabolic kid]

Day 5 (11/1/04)

Trained chest at 4 and took my insulin(IM) 30 imnutes before end of workout. 5:30- took my creatine/dex/pro shake(30 minutes after im injection). No feeling of hypo. For the rest of the day i had no carbohydrates only protein. I am going to discontinue the insulin until my next bulk cycle which will takeplace in about one or tow weeks. I have one question, how can i go 30 minutes after an IM injection(10ius) without any sugar? Than have 75 grams of dex and no othe carbs for the rest of the day. Is it poor insulin sensitivity?

[Gear]

Have more of a break than 1 or 2 weeks. Have at least 4 weeks break especially when using Insulin. Most people use Insulin 4 weeks ON, 4 weeks OFF. Some use it as far as 5 - 6 weeks in a row ON then OFF for the same amount of time. But when using Insulin, it is recomended to go 4 ON, then 4 OFF like I said before.

I think there is only 1 thing that will solve your problem, and that is a BG monitor. Get a BG monitor and measure your BG levels without using Insulin. Measure your levels before training, after training and before and after dinner. Then when you start using Insulin again, measure your BG levels before training, and every 10 min post injection, and compare the differnce in BG levels when using Insulin to natural BG levels (without Insulin). There has to be a difference. However, when you measure your BG levels when using Insulin, carefully monitor how much your BG levels have really dropped, as that will give you an idea of how far away you are from getting hypo symptoms. That is all I can think of for now.

[catabolic kid]

Thanx, I will measure my bg levels as that is the only way I will know for sure what the insulin is doing. Also, I thought that since I was only taking the insulin for 3 or 4 days that I would be able to continue again after a break of 1 to 2 weeks.

[Gear]

If you were using slin for such small amount of time (3 - 4 days) then break of 1 - 2 weeks is fine. By the way, dont expect miracles from Insulin if you are using it alone without a combination of AAS.

[banned]

The problem is that you are taking Humalin.. you should try to get some Humalog or 4 hours slin..

i don't know man. i feel sides off of only 4 iu's. i sweat like a f-ing pig from it.

u don't want to feel the sides man, it's not a real good feeling..

[Gear]

The problem is that you are taking Humalin.. you should try to get some Humalog

I agree its a better idea to get some LOG. But the problem isnt the type of slin he is using. Slin is slin, some are long acting, some are short acting, and if used properly there is no reason for it not to work. I have used R myself and have had the same sides and results as LOG. However, I prefer LOG because its less hassle.

[catabolic kid]

OK, GEAR, I took your advice and measured mmy BG levels. Here is what I did:


3:00- high protein low carb meal.

3:15- BG level 75.

4:00-workout.

4:50-slin (IM)

5:10 dex(approx 55 gram),creatineand protein shake(20 minutes after injection)

6:30- BG level 107 (1 hour 40 min after slin, 1 hour 20 min after shake)

6:45 -high protein, zero carb meal.

7:40- BG level 71.


*What do you make of these readings. I was not going to take insulin until my next cycle, but decided to use it once more just to measure my BG levels. By the way this is DAY 6 (11/2/04).

[Gear]

Its hard to discuss blood glucose levels as everyone seems to react differently. I know that normal blood glucose levels are between 75 and 120 mg/dl. However, there has been reports by people where their BG levels would drop majorly (way below 75) but no side effects of hypo. To me, this does not make sense, but once again I suppose everyone reacts different. So its hard to say how anyone would react to whatever level their BG level may be. Have a chat to ColdStone, I belive he has more exeprience then me when it comes to measuring BG levels. He may have some usefull info for you. Good luck.

[ColdSore]

Its hard to discuss blood glucose levels as everyone seems to react differently. I know that normal blood glucose levels are between 75 and 120 mg/dl. However, there has been reports by people where their BG levels would drop majorly (way below 75) but no side effects of hypo. To me, this does not make sense, but once again I suppose everyone reacts different. So its hard to say how anyone would react to whatever level their BG level may be. Have a chat to ColdStone, I belive he has more exeprience then me when it comes to measuring BG levels. He may have some usefull info for you. Good luck.

i dont know with the humalin....

but my bg levels change daily...my body is so fukkin touchy with slin that if someone is gonna get hurt useing it, then it would be me if i didnt know what i was doing...

take monday for instance...took my carbs and then protein....watied 40 minutes began to cook my meal, but began to go hypo with low BG levels right at 1 hour after my shot...

last night i wated the full hour to prepare my meal which took 15 minutes or so...then started to go hypo as i started eating...drank 8 oz' of gatorade and was fine though...

so i think for everyone its different...i think im extremely sensitive to it...and change daily

[catabolic kid]

What I am trying to find out is why my BG levels do not change at all when taking humulin. Is it poor insulin sensitivity? Should I take more Insulin, if 10 ius does not even change my bg levels? I think the profile I read here says 1 iu per 10-20 lbs of body weight. I am 265, so for every 10 lbs it would be 26 ius. Not to say I should try that amount, but since like you say everyone is different so maybe I need to take more insulin. WHAT DO YOU THINK????

[catabolic kid]

Also, if I were to add more insulin, I could closely monitor by bg levels and see what effects more insulin has on them.

[catabolic kid]

Anyones opinions on the above question (post # 30 and 31) would be appreciated.

[catabolic kid]

Bump