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Imo Floyd is the best fighter of this generation, probably one of the smartest fighters of all time. He has an amazing boxing brain with his out of this world skills. But where does he rank all time? is he up there with the ray Robinsons, Ali, Leonard,hagler,whitiker,Jones etc?
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Definitely not, besides the fact that I can't stand him as a person, he is just the best boxer of this time when boxing is pretty much a dying art (most of the actually amazing fighters of today head for UFC). Any of the guys you've already named, and a couple more, would have taken him down in their prime, maybe not easily, but without question. Not to mention he wouldn't last 2 round with a 20yr old Tyson.
I think he does have skills, but they don't match the level that the previous generations displayed. And besides that, who else is really THAT good for you to say "I don't know who's going to take this fight."? They are few and far between these days.
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I am not into boxing, so I can only say he seems like a complete moron. An overbearing, spoiled, arrogant moron.
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He is a dick lol I don't like his out of the ring stuff but what he does inside the ring I am a big fan, his skills are insane, for me he is one of the very best of all time. If he beats pacman then he cements his place as the best of this past generation.
Boxing is alive and well, boxing is a far bigger sport then MMA. Just look at the money boxers make compared to MMA fighters, plus PPV numbers. I tell you once the klitschko brothers retire heavyweight boxing will be huge!
Anabolic Member
I usually like to hold off until his career is over so i can assess his career.
look at Iron Mike. before he went to jail, every one was saying greatest ever................................
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I know what you're saying, but comparatively boxing is much older than UFC, and the UFC guys get wayyy more hurt than the average boxer does during a match. Don't get me wrong, I'm a pretty big boxing fan, but those are facts. The pay rate for UFC fighters has been on its way up. I don't know if it'll ever match boxing, but to be honest, they get a paid a little too much!
And Iron Mike Tyson, may have very well been the greatest ever when he was in his prime. He was unstoppable and he was only 18.
Anabolic Member
to be considered "the greatest", one must consider an ENTIRE career, not just a part of it.
Mike Tyson fails because the second half of his career sucked, when physically he should have been doing very well. He failed mentally, and he had the freak show "Don King" screw him every time he turned around. Once other fighters figured out that all they had to do was frustrate Mike, and survive the first few rounds by being a pvssy and clenching, then Mike would fade in the later rounds.
No, Mike is not even close to being the greatest.
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I can't even argue with you there lolOriginally Posted by Times Roman
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will he go down as one of the greatest welter +/- 7lbs of our generation
yes without a doubt
but of all time?
i admire the guy when he in the ring massively, but he is not in the "all time" class i.m.o
he be forgotten by all but serious boxing fans in 10-15 years
Senior Member
Yeah but look at the list of fighters Floyd has fought, coralez, Hatton, Mosley, delahoya,Marquez,cotto. 5 division champion.
Tyson. Fought and beat no one really of note besides a really old Holmes.
I hear you tho you do tend to see things different in hindsight once a fighter is retired. If pacman beats him (which I don't believe he will) that could change my opinion. I don't think that fight will ever be made anyway or if it does it will be when does'nt matter at the tail end of there career, well there nearly there now there no spring chickens.
But I hear you good point
Anabolic Member
this greatest ever discussion is kind of silly as it ignores all the "greatest evers" from decades before.
for example....
Julio Cesar Chavez - he was able to go 88 - 0 and has three titles in three different weight divisions
Rocky Marciano - only undefeated heavy weight champ, ever! this boy had some real bloody fights. he was also fairly light for a heavy weight (195)
Muhammad Ali - Not my favorite, but arguably one of the best ever
Sugar Ray Robinson
Joe Louis
Sugar Ray Leonard
Joe Frazier
Now with all these "greatest evers", it's pretty hard to take any discussion seriously that considers Mayweather a "greatest ever".
Some of my other fav's (but not greatest ever):
Roberto Duran [Fists of stone]
Manny Pacquiao
Erik Morales
Marco Antonio Barrera
Oscar De La Hoya
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Jake LaMotta
George Foreman
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I don't think many can argue against Floyd been the best fighter of the last decade, five division champ, undefeated. Sublime skills. Pacman has a shout but he has just fed off of Floyd's left overs.
Been the best of his generation, does'nt that make floyd a all time great?
Anabolic Member
his generation does not equal "all time"
and it's only been the last, what, ten years?
Senior Member
Yes that was my question, with him been the best of the past generation, where does Floyd rank all time?
Im not claiming Floyd is the best of all time.
My question Is floyd in the same class as Robinson, Ali, Roy Jones,hagler,pep etc?will he be forever remembered like those guys?
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i.m.o calagze and possibly martinez will be regarded higher in years to come
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i disagree
calzage (spelling)
and no floyd will not be remembered as the names you mentioned in post previous to this
Anabolic Member
Of ALL time?
He will be in the top 20, possibly top 10.
but there are a lot of boxers from earlier years i haven't even mentioned.
People only want to consider those that they have personally seen/remember and forget about those greats before their times.
I used to love watching Ernie Shavers knock out guys.
Mickey Ward and Arturo Gatti were fantastic B fighters, and very entertaining.
Prince Nasseem was extremely entertaining and very unconventional
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He is a great technical boxer. If you are really into "boxing" not the sport but the art its hard not to appreciate him. Being an asshole doesn't help his cause. Honestly I can see his career ending like Roy Jones Jr ..once Toney beat him ..that was it - he was a punching bag. I could see the same with Mayweather..then this discussion is moot. Before RJJ lost to Toney all the talk was he is lb for lb the greatest ever...you wont ever hear that mentioned again.
BTW TR Nice list .....
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Nah calzaghe didn't beat anyone of any note. A old Hopkins and way past his sell by date Jones. I liked calzaghe but he ain't on the same page as floyd.
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the difference between Jones and Mayweather is the depth of the division. Jones stayed in the 190lb division, where as the rest of the talent bulked up and went heavy weight (think Holyfield) where the real money was. So Jones division was pretty thin when it came to talent, unlike Mayweather where there is significant talent. Jones opted to not persue top $$ purses, and instead stay in his division and not move up like many did.
But i think you are right. Just like Jones, Mayweather relies heavily on his cat like reflexes. But he is 35 now, and the first thing that goes on a boxer as he ages is his speed. So Mayweather's time is about to end. Mayweather has had a damn good run of it, both amateur and professionally. He's made a ton of cash, and hasn't lost a fight yet.
It would be interesting to see what would have happened if we could put two great defensive fighters in at the same time. I'm thinking Mayweather and Ray Leonard in his prime. Ignore the weight difference, although both have fluctuated, and Mayweather now might be the same weight as Leonard when he was lighter.
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Roy Jones for me is one of the best all time, the problem with Roy was that when he went up to heavyweight then came back down to light heavy he wasn't the same fighter, losing 30lb lean muscle to get down to 174 took its toll on him. I think those fights after tarver, wasn't the real Roy. Roy in his prime was incredibly, he made great fighters like Hopkins and James Toney look out of his league.
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Floyd has great fundamentals. His defense is one of the best I've ever seen. It's not like Roy's where he relied on reflex, Floyd blocks shots, he catches them on his shoulders and gloves, he is very clever. He does have good reflexes also.
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TY it was antonio tarver i meant ..not toney. Ty ...and you make a great point. I liked RJJ a lot myself.
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It was enjoyable to watch him fight. I think we can all agree that he was in a very shallow division?
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Agreed ...
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Yeah he was, and he was reluctant to make the rematch with Hopkins (the famous interview 60/40 I kick yo ass lol) you have to give hI'm respect for going all the way from middleweight to heavyweight that is something that's never been done, really it was a light heavy in there with a heavy against Ruiz, I give hI'm alot of credit for that. But light heavy the comp was weak, he should really of been looking to make fights with Eubanks and Benn at super middle. But wasn't the way it was wrote, damn Roy was a athletic specimen tho a freak of nature lol
Shame the fool is still fighting. He is fighting kimbo slice soon lol
Anabolic Member
Ruiz was a horrible fighter! I don't know how he got one of the alphabet belts (well, i do know, but....), all i can say is that the heavy weight division was real shallow at the time and somehow a horrible fighter like "clinch and hold" Ruiz was able to come up with a belt after it was fumbled.
so to say beating ruiz one weight division higher really isn't saying much imho.....
Senior Member
Oh I do, Ruiz was no class A heavyweight champ but roy was at a massive size disadvantages. It's not like moving up 5lb from 135 to 140lb Roy moved up two divisions he had to put on more then 30lb an fight someone who hugely out weighed him in size and strength. Was quite a amazing feat.
Last edited by 951thompson; 09-29-2012 at 03:14 AM.
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I think he was amazingly gifted. Ultimately it was squandered.
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A perfect example of what might have been. Shame.....
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as I look back, I think boxers initially underestimated him due to his short stature (5'11") and the funny way he talked. And with the incredible amount of force he couuld deliver with his fists, he caught everyone by surprise. Once Cus D'Amato died, it changed Mike. He needed to be handled a certain kind of way, as only Cus couuld. But his death, and the feud with Teddy Atlas (rumor has it that Teddy threatened Mike when Teddy suspected "issues" between Mike and Teddy's daughter - I don't know what it is, Teddy refuses to say), slowly drove Mike's performance down hill.
Mike had an achilles heal. It was his ability to easily get frustrated when others would clench him, a common boxing tactic, albeit a chicken sh1t one if you ask me. So when boxers figured this out, and it was only a matter of time, it became his own undoing. Could Cus have calmed him down enough to overcome this? Maybe, but we'll never know. Mike's career really has two elements. And it can be divided up based on when other boxers figured out his achilles heal. Before that, Mike was spectatacular. But after that, it was all down hill.
Mike can never be considered one of the greatest due to such a flaw. "What might have been" is really another way of saying....
"If only the other boxers never found his Achilles heal".
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For you to say that a man that became world champion at 20 years old is ridiculous. Regardless of how long his career lasted or how it fizzled toward the end is irrelevant. In the short time he was on top he was unstoppable and his career reached a point that many fighters twice his age only dreamed theirs had. The short part of his amazing career is better than most fighters entire careers.
It takes most guys years to get to where he was so you would have to add those years and their entire career before they became noticeable if that's how you want to score it and iron mike will still come on top. Other guys, like mayweather, have some talent in a talentless era. Put those two men in the ring at both career climaxes and he would be another victim.
It isn't a story of what could have been when he achieved a number of world titles, there's no way but down when you reach the top. Especially at such a young age all the money and power is going to go to waste.
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to be one of the greatest, you have to look at a fighters entire career, not just a piece of it. I'm a huge tyson fan, and was watching him in real time as he was coming up through the ranks.
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I understand what you're saying. But what I'm saying that his career automatically jumped off when most have to work for years to get where he got
Anabolic Member
true. he was dynamite in a weak division at the time.
he was the most exciting fighter I had ever seen at the time. Not only that, but he was extremely humble at the time, with a soft spoken voice.
And when I saw him lose his first fight, i was in utter shock. I didn't think it was possible. I was such a huge fan. And for the rest of that day, I was not in a good mood.
Again, if you want to include him with the elite of the elites, then you MUST look at his whole career.
Let's talk about Julio Cesar Chavez for a bit. he was in an extremely tough division, very deep, with alot of other talented fighters. He went many many years, and accummulated beltsin three different divisions. he is a six time world champ, he even went 88-0 before his first loss.
Even ESPN only rates Iron Mike at the #50 spot overall, behind 49 other fighters as the worlds greatest.
The facts are the facts. Iron Mike is great, just NOT the greatest. Not even close!
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Easily #1 on my most hated list!
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Mayweather is good fighter. But that's it. All his fights are hand picked to his advantage. He never fights another good fighter until their past their prime or sees a weakness he can manipulate.
And he runs his mouth far to much and is just trash
Superbowl XLIX Champs!
The thing with Mayweather is he's a good fighter, maybe even a great one. But he's more concerned with making money and keeping his Mayweather brand looking good than he is about caring boxing as a sport. If he took fights against top fighters IN THEIR PRIME and looked bad, he wouldn't get the PPV buys in his next fight. We can act like boxing is a sport where being the champ and being the best matters, but it's really about making the most money you can make.
I honestly don't blame any fighter for looking out for their wallet first. I don't go to my job caring to be the best at it, I go to the most money I can at it.
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I respectfully disagree . Most fighters fight to prove their the best fighter in the world.
The problem is once they attain this status, they feel and have the power to pick and choose their next opponent.
And that's why boxing now is a joke with the people in power protecting their cash cows and records.
And most do work just for the money and that's it. Which is fine, but a lot of others take pride in their work. And when getting paid to do something, I think you should do that thing to the best of your ability.
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Agree with all the above
But looks like he will fight martinez next
His days of best pound for pound will come to an abrupt end if he does and out with it goes the $$$$$$$$
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