how long to load letro before starting test

[jgg1221]

hey
im gonna do a cycle that looks like this:

1-15 Eq 400mg/w
1-18 test prop 100mg/eod
clomid PCT, with Nolva


how long should i be taking letro before i start taking the test? ill be takin 1.25mg/eod

[TheMudMan]

2 weeks so it will get blood levels peaked.

[BajanBastard]

Test does not take 2 weeks to kick-in. From the first shot you'll have higher than normal blood testosterone levels.

[TheMudMan]

Test does not take 2 weeks to kick-in. From the first shot you'll have higher than normal blood testosterone levels.

It depends on what they mean by "kicking in" (feel the compound) but yes when you inject the test it will start building blood levels soon after..........

gsxxr - I start all anti-e's 2 weeks prior to my cycle starts........... this way I have my blood levels peaked before I start using any AAS.

[TheBrent]

2 weeks so it will get blood levels peaked.

this is the rule of thumb that i have heard for letro

[jgg1221]

i hope you guys all know i was refering to test propionate, and not enanthate or cypionate

[jgg1221]

any one know if letro has any effect on acne? like supressing it or increasing it?

[badham]

It depends on what they mean by "kicking in" (feel the compound) but yes when you inject the test it will start building blood levels soon after..........

gsxxr - I start all anti-e's 2 weeks prior to my cycle starts........... this way I have my blood levels peaked before I start using any AAS.

Letro has a half life of about 1 1/2 days, so you should have a max blood concentration in about 5 days given that you take it ed.

For me that small amount of AAS would not call for the use of an anti e, but everyone does respond differently so the choice is yours....

badham

[almostgone]

It depends on what they mean by "kicking in" (feel the compound) but yes when you inject the test it will start building blood levels soon after..........

gsxxr - I start all anti-e's 2 weeks prior to my cycle starts........... this way I have my blood levels peaked before I start using any AAS.

I took MudMan's advice on this and it has worked well for me...my first cycle was test prop, I started Nolva(10 mg ED) and Letro(1.25mg EOD) at the same time I started my cycle...I suffered with itchy/tingly nips the whole cycle(even though I bumped the Nolva up to 80mg ED until symptoms improved slightly)....I don't have this problem by starting the anti-e/AI prior to my cycle...

[TheMudMan]

Letro has a half life of about 1 1/2 days, so you should have a max blood concentration in about 5 days given that you take it ed.

For me that small amount of AAS would not call for the use of an anti e, but everyone does respond differently so the choice is yours....

badham

I have seen 2 days................ but the half life is not how you determine if you have reached steady concentration levels............ Letro can take anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks to build these levels and this is if you took it everyday.........this is why I say 2 weeks prior the cycle would be good to do.

[badham]

I have seen 2 days................ but the half life is not how you determine if you have reached steady concentration levels............ Letro can take anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks to build these levels and this is if you took it everyday.........this is why I say 2 weeks prior the cycle would be good to do.

Well basically it would work like this.....lets say for argument sake it is 2 days for Letro (half life) so that means half of a dose (lets use 1 mg as our dose for example reasons) would be in the system after day two, but another dose has been taken on day two, so you really have .25 + .50 after day two..and so on. The maximum blood cencentration assuming no other factors but metabolation of the letro could only reach approx 1.5mg daily at a 1mg ed dose as our example and it would be reached by day three. You can do the math here http://powerboard.rockarfett.com/roidcalc/ And I would think that by measuring the half life of a drug would be the only way that you could measure steady blood levels....

badham

[TheMudMan]

Well basically it would work like this.....lets say for argument sake it is 2 days for Letro (half life) so that means half of a dose (lets use 1 mg as our dose for example reasons) would be in the system after day two, but another dose has been taken on day two, so you really have .25 + .50 after day two..and so on. The maximum blood cencentration assuming no other factors but metabolation of the letro could only reach approx 1.5mg daily at a 1mg ed dose as our example and it would be reached by day three. You can do the math here http://powerboard.rockarfett.com/roidcalc/ And I would think that by measuring the half life of a drug would be the only way that you could measure steady blood levels....

badham

This isn't the only reference I have that states how long it take to build a steady concentration of the drug............ I know that after an hour or two after taking letro you will have peaked blood levels but that means nothing you want to get the drug into a steady state of concentration.

Here's just one of the many article/study that I have on letro/femara:
================================================== =====

R E F E R E N C E
1. Turnidge J. What to use instead of flucloxacillin. Aust Prescr 1995;18:54-6.

Letrozole
Femara (Novartis)
2.5 mg tablets

Indication: breast cancer
Antioestrogens such as tamoxifen are often used in the treatment of advanced breast cancer. In postmenopausal women, including those whose menopause has been induced by treatment, oestriol can be produced by other tissues. This synthesis can be stopped by inhibiting the aromatase enzymes. Anastrozole is already available for postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancers which have progressed following treatment with tamoxifen. Letrozole, another non-steroidal aromatase inhibitor, is now also approved for the same indication.

In a pivotal clinical trial, letrozole was not compared with anastrozole. The comparator was megestrol acetate, a synthetic progestogen. The 551 patients were randomised to receive daily doses of 0.5 mg or 2.5 mg of letrozole or 160 mg megestrol. The overall response rate was 24% in patients given 2.5 mg letrozole. Only 13% of the women given 0.5 mg letrozole and 16% of those given megestrol had a response to treatment. The median time before treatment failed was longest (155 days) in the patients given 2.5 mg letrozole.

Letrozole is taken once a day until the cancer progresses. It is well absorbed and rapidly distributed. The drug is slowly metabolised and then excreted mainly in the urine. As the metabolism may involve cytochrome P450 3A4 and 2A6, there is a potential for interactions with other drugs metabolised by these enzymes. The half-life of letrozole is two days and its concentration takes 2-6 weeks to reach a steady state.

Some of the adverse reactions of letrozole can be predicted by its effects on oestradiol synthesis e.g. hot flushes. The most common adverse effects are headache, nausea and peripheral oedema. In the pivotal study, letrozole was generally better tolerated than megestrol.

Women with breast cancer and their doctors will need to consider carefully the risks and benefits of letrozole. Its efficacy in oestrogen-receptor negative tumours is not yet known. Although letrozole has a higher response rate than megestrol, the median time to progression is not significantly different. When the data from the pivotal trial were collected, there were no statistically significant differences in the risk of death or the median time to death. At that stage, 58% of the women taking letrozole (2.5 mg) and 50% of those taking megestrol were still alive. If further study finds that letrozole has no greater effect on survival than megestrol, patients may still prefer letrozole (or anastrozole) as it is better tolerated.

[almostgone]

R E F E R E N C E
1. Turnidge J. What to use instead of flucloxacillin. Aust Prescr 1995;18:54-6.

Letrozole
Femara (Novartis)
2.5 mg tablets

Indication: breast cancer
Antioestrogens such as tamoxifen are often used in the treatment of advanced breast cancer.

Letrozole is taken once a day until the cancer progresses. It is well absorbed and rapidly distributed. The drug is slowly metabolised and then excreted mainly in the urine. As the metabolism may involve cytochrome P450 3A4 and 2A6, there is a potential for interactions with other drugs metabolised by these enzymes. The half-life of letrozole is two days and its concentration takes 2-6 weeks to reach a steady state.

taking megestrol were still alive. If further study finds that letrozole has no greater effect on survival than megestrol, patients may still prefer letrozole (or anastrozole) as it is better tolerated.

Good Reference material, MudMan....you must have accumulated a library of info ...

[TheMudMan]

Good Reference material, MudMan....you must have accumulated a library of info ...

Thanks bro, yes I have a lot of info build up on my hard drive..........

[almostgone]

Thanks bro, yes I have a lot of info build up on my hard drive..........

I've been accumulating info on my hard drive and disc myself....unfortunately my organizational/filing skills leave alot to be desired....

[badham]

This isn't the only reference I have that states how long it take to build a steady concentration of the drug............ I know that after an hour or two after taking letro you will have peaked blood levels but that means nothing you want to get the drug into a steady state of concentration.

Here's just one of the many article/study that I have on letro/femara:
================================================== =====

R E F E R E N C E
1. Turnidge J. What to use instead of flucloxacillin. Aust Prescr 1995;18:54-6.

Letrozole
Femara (Novartis)
2.5 mg tablets

Indication: breast cancer
Antioestrogens such as tamoxifen are often used in the treatment of advanced breast cancer. In postmenopausal women, including those whose menopause has been induced by treatment, oestriol can be produced by other tissues. This synthesis can be stopped by inhibiting the aromatase enzymes. Anastrozole is already available for postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancers which have progressed following treatment with tamoxifen. Letrozole, another non-steroidal aromatase inhibitor, is now also approved for the same indication.

In a pivotal clinical trial, letrozole was not compared with anastrozole. The comparator was megestrol acetate, a synthetic progestogen. The 551 patients were randomised to receive daily doses of 0.5 mg or 2.5 mg of letrozole or 160 mg megestrol. The overall response rate was 24% in patients given 2.5 mg letrozole. Only 13% of the women given 0.5 mg letrozole and 16% of those given megestrol had a response to treatment. The median time before treatment failed was longest (155 days) in the patients given 2.5 mg letrozole.

Letrozole is taken once a day until the cancer progresses. It is well absorbed and rapidly distributed. The drug is slowly metabolised and then excreted mainly in the urine. As the metabolism may involve cytochrome P450 3A4 and 2A6, there is a potential for interactions with other drugs metabolised by these enzymes. The half-life of letrozole is two days and its concentration takes 2-6 weeks to reach a steady state.

Some of the adverse reactions of letrozole can be predicted by its effects on oestradiol synthesis e.g. hot flushes. The most common adverse effects are headache, nausea and peripheral oedema. In the pivotal study, letrozole was generally better tolerated than megestrol.

Women with breast cancer and their doctors will need to consider carefully the risks and benefits of letrozole. Its efficacy in oestrogen-receptor negative tumours is not yet known. Although letrozole has a higher response rate than megestrol, the median time to progression is not significantly different. When the data from the pivotal trial were collected, there were no statistically significant differences in the risk of death or the median time to death. At that stage, 58% of the women taking letrozole (2.5 mg) and 50% of those taking megestrol were still alive. If further study finds that letrozole has no greater effect on survival than megestrol, patients may still prefer letrozole (or anastrozole) as it is better tolerated.

Ok...but your study says nothing about the steady state of letro on its own, it is talking about possible interactions with other drugs, therefore causing a possible 2-6 weeks of steady concetnration in the blood. Also this is based in non healthy individuals....not healthy male bodybuilders, so the data may or may not be accurate for us.

From a biochemical stand point half life determines how much compound is cleaved and is available for use by the body (in this case the liver) at a given time, and certain metabolites are broken slower then others.......but once again this is simply an observation from a shear biochemical standpoint...you could has easily said take the letro for 6 weeks and used that particular study to back it, but with no other drugs in the system we both know that is not the case....using your own data...not busting your balls....just an observation on my part....

Letrozole is taken once a day until the cancer progresses. It is well absorbed and rapidly distributed. The drug is slowly metabolised and then excreted mainly in the urine. As the metabolism may involve cytochrome P450 3A4 and 2A6, there is a potential for interactions with other drugs metabolised by these enzymes. The half-life of letrozole is two days and its concentration takes 2-6 weeks to reach a steady state.

In my opinion all studies have to be analysed and then judged against the peer group they are being used in.....not just taken ad hoc....Just MHO.

badham

[TheMudMan]

Ok...but your study says nothing about the steady state of letro on its own, it is talking about possible interactions with other drugs, therefore causing a possible 2-6 weeks of steady concetnration in the blood. Also this is based in non healthy individuals....not healthy male bodybuilders, so the data may or may not be accurate for us.

From a biochemical stand point half life determines how much compound is cleaved and is available for use by the body (in this case the liver) at a given time, and certain metabolites are broken slower then others.......but once again this is simply an observation from a shear biochemical standpoint...you could has easily said take the letro for 6 weeks and used that particular study to back it, but with no other drugs in the system we both know that is not the case....using your own data...not busting your balls....just an observation on my part....

Letrozole is taken once a day until the cancer progresses. It is well absorbed and rapidly distributed. The drug is slowly metabolised and then excreted mainly in the urine. As the metabolism may involve cytochrome P450 3A4 and 2A6, there is a potential for interactions with other drugs metabolised by these enzymes. The half-life of letrozole is two days and its concentration takes 2-6 weeks to reach a steady state.

In my opinion all studies have to be analysed and then judged against the peer group they are being used in.....not just taken ad hoc....Just MHO.

badham

I'm done with this thread..................... it's 2 to 6 weeks take the info or not I do not care.............. I'm not here to prove anyone right or wrong...... these are facts by professionals in the field not some guy.

[BajanBastard]

Mudman is correct. Letro is best started 2-3 weeks before cycle.

[badham]

I'm done with this thread..................... it's 2 to 6 weeks take the info or not I do not care.............. I'm not here to prove anyone right or wrong...... these are facts by professionals in the field not some guy.

I was not saying you were wrong...simply stating that based on the half life of the drug iw would not take that long to reach a steady state. I was curious what other factors were being considered. I did not realize that questioning a persons position at this board was offensive....I see that I will need to keep that in mind now.......

and a side note some of those same professionals will be the ones that tell you not to take AAS for a host of reasons true and untrue. Simply like to know real life reasoning behind a statement....not just because someone said it....sorry it insulted you..

badham

[Duke of Earl]

based on the half life of the drug

That's assuming its absorbed & distributed immediately - there are many more factors than just halflife in determining when stable blood levels are reached.

[badham]

That's assuming its absorbed & distributed immediately - there are many more factors than just halflife in determining when stable blood levels are reached.

I understand that, but in absence of stating what those factors are....the amount of drug available in the system is the determining factor. If, as in the case stated above with letro, it attaches to receptor sites that also have a high infinty to be used by other drugs...then yes that would be another factor. I was not aware that the beging of this thread that was where letro was metabolized......altho these other factors have still not be made apparent yet I dont think, or I have overlooked seen them???

badham

[Georgie]

some people were asking about letro and how long to reach steady blood level concentrations. this is an old thread that i found infomative.